So How Much Trouble Will We Be In?
Business By SweetSweetCreations Updated 13 Apr 2009 , 4:07am by mommyle
Oh Mac.. how horrible for you. Thank you for sharing your story with everyone. The threat of being fined is real... and a risk I wouldn't be willing to take. No flames should be shot at you. Your story is a very real warning to everyone operating under the radar.
My advice would be to just play it safe and don't advertise until you get your shop going. Only bake for people you know and trust, no friends of friends of friends........KWIM?
OK, I'll admit it. I'm clueless. I've seen "KWIM" before - what exactly does that mean???
LOL!.............You're not clueless, it means "know what I mean", I only know from text messaging with my kids! 
Thanks dkelly. But...if you can't bake and sell "goods" out of your home then why can we have bake sales?!?! 
I don't get it. Ain't that the same?
Thanks dkelly. But...if you can't bake and sell "goods" out of your home then why can we have bake sales?!?!
I don't get it. Ain't that the same?
Nothing is the same as anything.
For example, in Tennessee we have a certification you can do but it is for Farmer's Market type sales not decorated cake sales. In fact, they just conducted the sanitation classes here this month and even though some of us were assured that this is part of the process for certification for decorated cake sales it is not for dcorated cake sales. DCS are considered catering.
Catering means commercially zoned property.
Unless the powers that be interpret it differently. And they do.
Thanks dkelly. But...if you can't bake and sell "goods" out of your home then why can we have bake sales?!?!
I don't get it. Ain't that the same?
I just know that in MD, even bake sales are technically not legal...the hd just doesn't go after them...I guess usually b/c they are usually held by non-profits like churches, girl/boy scouts, etc. so it's not exactly like going after someone selling from a home kitchen. We are going through the same struggle in MD right now trying to make it legal for home bakers - some wonderful folks on CC spearheading the first attempt (which unfortunately was shot down this month in committee at the state level) But looks like we may be able to mobilize for next year with a bigger group! Would love to see it happen! I guess, until then, "illegal" bake sales will continue!
I have always been curious how anyone can prove it if you are selling unlicensed from your home. If anyone called me or came knocking on my door, they couldn't prove anything...so my question is, how do people get busted?
Well I mean you are danged if you do (admit it) and danged if you don't admit it.
I mean like so many people go to jail for lying rather than for actually commiting the things they were questioned about. Scooter Libby and Martha Stewart come to mind.
So I would not want to impassion someone to have to prove it kwim.
But I would not have the balls to lie about it if I got caught--but let me hasten to add I do not do cakes from my home. I have over 35 years in the industry and I have worked for many bakeries etc.
All it takes is one phone call to turn someone in.
Bake sales are different. Food items are consumed on site and usually by members of a group (ie a church or a school) and the food items are prepared by members of the group. Non-potentially hazardous baked goods wouldn't require a license in most states, but foods like cheesecakes and custards and anything with a cream cheese frosting, basically anything perishable, would require approval of the licensing department. If there are hot dogs and burgers and the like being sold technically you would need a temporary license for the event. There are laws in place for potlucks and bake sales... you just have to look for them.
I have always been curious how anyone can prove it if you are selling unlicensed from your home. If anyone called me or came knocking on my door, they couldn't prove anything...so my question is, how do people get busted?
marcy some people that are baking without a license actually have web sites up and running advertising themselves as a business with photos of their baked goods and pricing. This to me is not a very smart thing to do. Some advertise on Facebook or Myspace.........same thing, shouldn't *advertise* if not licensed.
It's kind of hard to deny you're conducting a business when you advertise it.
Also, as mac said......I know of a girl who was selling unlicensed from her home and someone from the HD called and ordered a cake from her. Upon pick-up she was caught.
There are plenty of ways for them to find out. The question is how far will your particular HD go to try and find out. I'm sure some of them have better things to do then to go looking for the "home baker" but if they get a complaint or hear about it through the proverbial grapevine, that may be enough for them to do something about it.
I guess people that do it will have to always be looking over their shoulders or worrying that the next *new* client could actually be the HD.
That was why I just paid the fine and then got my butt in gear to make myself legal.
Lot better than looking over your shoulder all the time. Worrying about who is calling. I did for several years from my house and believe me, legal feels better--less stress.
That was why I just paid the fine and then got my butt in gear to make myself legal.
Lot better than looking over your shoulder all the time. Worrying about who is calling. I did for several years from my house and believe me, legal feels better--less stress.
Yeah, I'd imagine it would be kind of like being married to a "Tony Soprano". 
Mac, that really stinks!! I had no idea you had been through that! That is certainly scary! Nothing like that for motivation to 'get legal' eh?
I am SO lucky that I fall under the loose restrictions of Iowa law and can operate completely legally from home with no required licensing. I am definitely blessed on that respect, I know it saves me a ton of money. I would definitely have to raise my prices if I were supporting a separate business location. (Although when the boys are in school, I'd like to consider it!!!) I am considering some licensing though because I've been approached by some businesses who'd like to sell my goods in their physical locations. That WOULD require proper license. I'm just scared of what all it would entail to get it. LOTS of $$ Cha-ching!
To be really honest, I think some of the 'anti-home baker' comments that occasionally pop up insult me at first, then I remember that I am actually legal in what I am doing, so I have to keep in mind that they are not referring to me! I just hear the words 'home baker' and think of that as being what I am... but most of the comments are referring to people who are trying to fly illegally under the radar. I can understand the frustration of someone who has spent thousands, perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on their biz. But I do greatly appreciate it when the conversation stays civil, even when people disagree. It's also unfortunate that I can see both sides of the argument, so I can't 'take sides'. I know I would not have the brass to start a bakery if I hadn't established a clientele here at home at basically 'no risk' first. I probably wouldn't be willing to put myself in that position to lose it all. Like I said, I am really lucky with the laws here.
I think it's all about the money.....other than cheesecakes, and cream fillings etc....just how dangerous are cakes and cookies?
i was watching the travel channel....that dude who eats weird stuff was on....they showed him going thru the food markets (on the street) in another country.....IT DID NOT LOOK VERY CLEAN AT ALL...ugh
but i wonder how many people there are dying from eating those foods?
there are people here who have been selling cakes for decades and haven't had any problems, not to say that they won't....ha ha ...one works at the police dept.
I'll just put my quick 2 cents in....as a LEGAL bakery owner.
I used to have a small business out of my home too. but it was completely LEGAL too. I built a second kitchen and worked with the health dept. it was a bit costly, but not too bad because we did the work ourselves.
as a bakery owner, especially in a time of recession, my business has been hurting lately because people are using unliscenced cake decorators.
I'm loosing my a$$ off to "under the radar" bakers and it seems unfair.
I have overhead, LISCENCE FEES, business liscence.
while struggling to stay in business I see all kinds of illegal bakers advertise on craigs list and places like that.
all I'm saying is that it is irritating.
If your going to play, you need to play by the rules.
like I said, just my 2 cents.
What about Hawaii?? Does anyone have any info on the states' rules/regulations?
I won't tell the OP not to bake cakes "under the radar" or whatever... I don't tell people the shouldn't speed or cheat on their taxes etc. either. It's just none of my business.
I happen to live in a state is the worst possible situation for professional bakers. The department of Ag. in NC will give ANYONE a license to bake at home. The only two requirements are no pets and if you have well water it has to be tested. I have massive overhead, and am constantly in competition with home bakers for the most profitable part of the bakery business ( wedding cakes). It makes it harder for me to pay my people well etc. It is a huge problem.
I know this is a touchy subject. I am a legal baker in the state of California.
Believe it or not, I am also a home baker. I am lucky enough to be one of the few in California who has a separate building on my property (kind of like a detached garage) that I had converted into a commercial kitchen. Believe me this was not cheap! It is nice to be able to do it out of my home and I feel truly blessed.
Here is the problem though. One thing I would like the home bakers to understand and Please don't get mad at me, but when you price your cakes so low that I cannot compete with you because of my overhead, it really hurts my business. I have seen a lot of your work on this site----you are truly talented artisans. Please, Please price accordingly! I don't mind competing with you, but its only fair that we be on an even playing field. Some of the home bakers in my area charge half of what we charge in general out here. One even offers free deliver in a 60 mile radius. When the going rate in the San Francisco Bay area is on the low end $4 a slice and you are charging $2 to 2.50 a slice with free delivery up to 60 miles it hurts.
Now please don't look at this as an attack on you. It is not meant to be that way. I have always stayed out of this debate, but I had a glass of wine tonight and I guess I just got brave. My mother always told me there are two sides to every story, and you have to find the common ground in the middle. Maybe that middle is the pricing issue. I know there will always be bakers flying "under the radar" as you put it. Please price accordingly and maybe we can all "Fly".
Cascades, that was very diplomatically worded! And I agree totally that, regardless of the legality issue, most people are more irritated by being priced right out of business. I have given up trying to compete with low-ball Lucy (who actually usually ends up being WalMart!!) and just know that my customers appreciate quality. 
very well said Cascades and melvira!
I quoted a bride for a wedding cake and a few dozen cupcakes.. I gave her a pretty good deal, but "low ball lucy" under priced me be a couple hundred dollars. grrrrr.
I'm pretty sure she is an illegal bake from what I gather.
ummmph
wow i can't imagine delivering 60 miles for free....amazing.
Cascades... that is my beef too. I am a home baker, but I am priced right in line with the higher end store front bakeries. I was not going to be that one who was hurting the ones who paved the road. Plus... I got into this to make money and I treat it like a business... not a hobby that I have fun with and maybe making something for my time might be kinda cool. It takes time from my family and I am not doing that for pennies... no way no how. I take pride in what I do and feel it's well worth what I charge... I should probably charge more... all in good time.
I'm all for being a home baker if your state allows for it, but don't use the excuse that you have next to no overhead to charge next to nothing... use it as an excuse to up your profit margin!! 
Cascades Thank you. The way you put that was perfect and it really got me thinking.
Ok so I just realized something I don't think I would have ever thought of without hearing it here. I don't charge what I should and the reasons in my mind don't make sense now! I charged less because I wasn't doing it out of a shop so I didn't want to feel like I was taking advantage of the client. I am self taught with a little over a year so I don't feel like a professional How could I charge professional prices? I could go on and on. I want to stress I am over 25 miles from any bakery and I know I am not undercutting anyone in my area there is no one else, But i am looking at this differently. (My husband has been on me about my pricing for a while)I will be charging what the going rates are in this part of Texas from now on. I have been turning down orders since I started this thread it is just a little scary.I will only be doing orders for people I know and no public events. It makes sense if I charge correctly I can get my shop sooner and get legal.I never intended on doing this from home but starting a business is much harder and way more expensive than I thought.
Jodi---You are very talented. You will do well and I hope you get what your worth. The hard part for many of us when we are first beginning is valuing
are worth. Believe me you should be getting at least as much as the other bakers in your area. And I as a Legal baker would say to myself, well she isn't undercutting me and she is good. Don't get me wrong, I would still wish for her to be legal, but I would also wish her the best.
You see, I firmly believe that when you place the right value on your work, and get compensated accordingly, you can begin to see a bigger picture, and the possibility of being able to afford to become legal suddenly seems very attainable.
Good Luck to you.
SweetCreationsbyJodi--
Even tho you are self-taught, think of it in terms of the time required to learn. See that time as time spent in "a learning institution". And we all know that classes cost. Factor in ALL the equipment, supplies and ingredients that you have bought over a year. Gets quite expensive.
So you do actually have "overhead".
Oh and lets not forget, electricity and water. No, I am not condoning OR condeming the home baker (I was there once) but like Cascades and jkalman, I am against the underpricing.
When you go to a new doctor just out of med school--do you get a cheaper office visit--No! Go to a mechanic that is learning from a more experienced mechanic--do you get cheaper car repairs--No! Checking out at Wal-mart by a trainee--do you get a discount because that person is not as fast as a more experienced one--No! (If you do, I want to know so I can shop at the Walmart). Hope you all are seeing where I am going with this. Just because you are self-taught, does not mean that you should not charge the going rate in your area.
this has been sooooooo interesting and informative. Thanks
if you are 25 miles from everyone else, you kinda got a monopoly ....you can charge more.
i did one wedding cake from home about 10 years ago.....it was tuff....the difference is night and day trying to do it from home...or doing it at a shop...i'd never want to try to do it from home.
if i were you, i'd try to at lease aim for trying to get a shop, or a separate kitchen at your home, you can be at least 10 times more productive.
i'm so glad this didn't get dramatic....we are evolving ...good for us!
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