I'd Rather Do The Flowers....tell Me What You Would Do
Business By JavaJunkieChrissy Updated 25 Sep 2007 , 1:31am by playingwithsugar
You know I like to bake.....I don't like to frost the cakes.....I don't like all of the clean up .....and with 5 boys I don't always have the time.
But I DO LOVE to do the flowers our of gumpaste. I could sit all day and make flowers. I just made some beautiful little acorns for a fall themed cake.
Now, here's my question.....I would like to make and sell my gumpaste flowers BUT.....I have a cat. Do you think this would be a problem?
I was thinking if I would be o.k. doing this out of my home then I would go around to the local bakeries and see if they would like to buy flowers and sprays from me.
How would I price the flowers? I have no idea what to charge. I do see prices on the net BUT there is a big difference in price from site to site.......Tell me what you think!
Thanks
Chrissy
My MIL told me that if it's going to be a problem I can use her kitchen. She's only about 5 minutes from my house.
I live near Hershey I see that your in PA...where are you located? Do you have an in home bakery or do you have a store front????
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that something that is EDIBLE but isn't foreseen as being eaten doesn't have to be produced in a licensed kitchen.. hence why the baking and basic icing of cakes must be done in a licensed kitchen but other decorations can be made elsewhere in unlicensed areas. I could be wrong but in many places, I think that's the law.
I mean, a lot of people put floral wire into their gumpaste flowers and put ribbon on their cakes, and that stuff certainly isn't exactly produced in a licensed kitchen or serve-safe for ingestion.
I don't know why you'd have a problem. Gumpaste is not meant to be eaten so there's no reason why you have to make them in a licensed kitchen anymore than any other craft item that's not edible.
Just to be on the safe side, I'd be sure and label them "not meant for consumption" and have at it.
I know that there's a growing demand for flower makers. Here in Massachusetts I have met only one cake decorator who makes her own flowers; everyone else buys them. Someone who creates 3-4 cakes a weekend simply has no time to make sugar flowers.
Although I don't make enough cakes (yet) to buy pre-made flowers, I'd really prefer to get them from someone local and minimize the risk of breakage (which is common in mail order flowers).
As for the legal issue: I'd guess that they are not a food product, and thus do not require stringent regulation.
As for the cat: UGH...good luck! I kitty-sat my brother's little one and it took weeks to get rid of the fur.
Let us know how this works out. Just think: You'll have a huge customer base from your friends at CC!! 
I think you won't have any problems!! But...keep in mind that you shouldn't stray too far from the prices you see on the internet. You are 1 person making custom flowers. The companies that make these sprays have 100's of employees doing mass production. If I didn't already make my own I would certainly rather buy from someone locally than pay the shipping and risk damage in shipment.
Just make sure you are pricing your quality and workmanship fairly - you are probably worth more than you're thinking. I can't tell you exactly how to price them but maybe you could figure out your supplies and then decide on an hourly wage. If you think that you make them too quickly to go by an hourly wage I would give a call to some custom cake shops and find out what they charge for sprays & single flowers. Be competitive with them but profitable for yourself...Good luck!
Tammi
I live close to Hershey Park too. I can smell the chocolate on some days. It use to drive me nuts but now since I bake more sweet smells kind of make me feel 
I have called all of the bakeries in my immediate area and only one of them makes her own flowers. I went to see some of her work because she has a store front. I don't want to be mean but I thought that it was messy. I would not buy flowers from her.
I do take longer to make mine. I am very tedious and tend to think that everything has to look just so. When it comes to pricing I don't have a clue.
I think I'll put together some samples of my work and take them around to some of the cake shops in my area AFTER I find out from the Dept. of Agr. if I can do this in my own home. I do agree about it not being a food item much like the artifical flowers you would buy in a craft store....and I've seen them dusty from having the floors buffed and who knows who's been touching them 
I'll definately let you guys know what I'm going to do. If you want to see some examples of my work they are in my galllery. I just made some acorns this weekend and I really like those. I'll post pic in a little bit.
Thanks for all the encouragement. I know that I'll have to look into a good packing material. The flowers are so very fragile and I would feel awful if something arrived broken... 
Thanks again!
Chrissy
Gumpaste flowers --
Are considered an edible food product, and in my area (Allentown) cannot be produced for commercial use in a home kitchen.
An acquaintance of mine is going through this in a small town in Carbon County. You will need to contact your township or county health department, code enforcement, and zoning, to find out if you would be legal under all their authorities. If those health departments do not have jurisdiction to your area, then you will have to contact the state health department for information.
Theresa 
Thanks Theresa I do know that I am o.k. with my township for zoning. I've check on this already and my MIL who said that I could also just use her kitchen for making my flowers lives in the same township and has the same zoning. It seems that it would be alot easier for me just to go to her house since it's so close and just have everything there. She even has extra cabinets in a back bedroom and it would be very, very easy to just set up a table there. She doesn't have any pets and that's the only thing thats standing in my way.....and getting rid of the cat is NOT an option!! 
Ok, but zoning is not the same as the health department or code enforcement. Because your products will be placed on cakes, there are health codes that must be enforced, and code enforcement may come in and tell you that you need a certain sink, etc. I have seen this happen to people trying to start home businesses in outlying towns from here.
I would double-check with the other departments before venturing on.
Good Luck!
Theresa
Ok, but zoning is not the same as the health department or code enforcement. Because your products will be placed on cakes, there are health codes that must be enforced, and code enforcement may come in and tell you that you need a certain sink, etc. I have seen this happen to people trying to start home businesses in outlying towns from here.
I would double-check with the other departments before venturing on.
Good Luck!
Theresa
Actually, if they are not meant to be eaten, and she labels them as such, there is no need to contact the health department.
Just because they are meant to be put ON something edible doesn't mean she has to follow H.D. guidelines. Flowers, cake toppers, etc. all end up on wedding cakes, but the florist, etc. don't have to jump through any H.D. hoops.
If they are labeled "for decoration only" you are good to go. Good luck! 
Wow, I sure admire the beauty of the purchased sprays I've seen ~ BUT if it is really, really cheap I would absolutely tell my customers to NOT eat them!
Low, low prices likely indicate it was made in China. You're probably all aware of recalls for candy and toothpaste made there that contained lead, and sweeteners using the same poisonous chemical found in car anti-freeze. The FACTS are that the vast majority of their factories are unregulated, and 99% of incoming food shipments from China are NOT inspected or tested when they arrive here. What baker can afford that liability?!
So ~ maybe YOUR niche can be "Made in America" gumpaste flowers. Yes, they cost more, but we expect fair wages for our work! The only catch is that you must source "Made in America" INGREDIENTS, and that could even be impossible. (The example of that was the pet food recall ~ yes, it was made here, but they had used contaminated ingredients from China.)
Good luck!!!!
Brandisbaked -
Maybe that is how they do things in Idaho, but here in Pennsylvania, gumpaste flowers are made from food products, and placed on food products, therefore, the health department which has jurisdiction must be contacted for approval.
Theresa
Probably the best thing to do is contact your local health department just to be sure.
I've never heard of any baker who considers gumpaste something you would actually want to eat and here all I need to do is label it "not meant for consumption" and I'm in the clear.
Since I almost always dust my gumpaste decorations I have to tell my customers they aren't meant to be eaten since the dusts should not be eaten either.
We have a licensed kitchen in Florida. I know that everyone has seen the plastic toys on cakes in grocery stores also porcelain toppers, real ribbon, tuck & ruffle (yuck!) real pearl on a string & tons of other things we place on cakes. All those items are made (or are supposed to be made) from non-toxic materials. If you wan to market your items as non toxic for cake decoration I would still contact the health or agriculture dpt to see if there is anything you need to do with them. Although gumpaste is edible I don't know of anyone that would crunch down on something the texture of porcelain, ouch!
As for the cat issue I would consider using a room that you can keep the cat out of. All your cat hairs from your clothes can be taken care of by wearing an exclusive uniform for that room, along with shoes. The uniform would have to washed separately too.
Once you get your answer for health then check with zoning they will most likely not care if you are an Internet based business since you will not be impacting traffic flow to your home accept for occasional ups deliveries for your supplies. Then apply for your federal cooperate id for you would most likely be sole proprietor. Tax id for sales, out of state orders typically don't have tax applied, but make sure you get a tax guide sent to you when you apply.
P.S. U-line has tons of unique packaging options.
CCer's please make sure you never stick wires into cake! This is illegal in any state. Instead cut you wires shorter & slide them into straws, this keeps the wire from touching cake but still gives stability to heavy flowers. We delivered a cake yesterday & they had flowers sitting in their kitchen from an earlier wedding, the stems covered in cake! That is so unsanitary, unless you use surgical wire (name) you cannot stick wire into food.
Justme50 --
I do not know where you live, nor do I wish to debate your local laws, but please allow me to explain my position.
Here is PA, there are three different types of jurisdictions for health codes. If the municipality where you live has a governing health department, then it is up to them to regulate what is considered a commercial kitchen. If there is no municipal HD, then the county takes over. If the county does not have jurisdiction to a certain area, then the state must do the inspection. And as I mentioned previously, because gumpaste flowers are made with food products, and placed on food products, they are considered a food item.
By advising someone to open a business such as this, here in PA, without proper inspections, puts both JavaJunkieChrissy and her MIL at risk of fines of up to $15,000, with possible jail sentences for recurring offenses.
I am not trying to discourage her from her inspired business enterprise; I am trying to protect her. It is not like I have not investigated into all this. I wanted to open a business of my own, and could not because of zoning, health, and code here in Allentown, which is a major city in PA. I researched surrounding areas, and found several places where I would be able to open businesses, as long as I could provide a separate kitchen from my home kitchen.
I have four friends and acquaintances who already have businesses up and running, one in a city, three in very small townships, and all had to provide kitchens that are separate from the home kitchen.
Theresa
I'm not trying to debate the laws in anyone's area nor am I saying she should go head first into making gumpaste flowers for resale. My advice is that she shouldn't solely depend on anyone's opinion here and that she should check her own state regulations to make sure she's in compliance before doing anything.
That said, I'm really surprised that PA would consider gumpaste an item that is intended for human consumption.
The county that I live in has different rules from Allentown. I am sorry that you have such horrible hoops to jump through......they can make it difficult. 
I have talked to a gentlemen on the phone from the Dept. of Ag. He's the gentlemen that would be coming to inspect my home. In the area that I live in I DO NOT have to have a special sink, special counters, etc. The ONLY thing I have to make sure of is that I store the foods or products that I would be using for my business seperate from the foods that I serve my family. This is a very easy remedy for me because I have a very large walk in pantry in the lower level of our house that's finished off. I also have a sink in the area.....and my DH works for a countertop company so that would be an easy job for him to install countertops for me. I have everything I need here at the house. Like I said my problem is my cat.......But....my MIL lives in the same area that I live......she has the same rules....she does not have a cat and has an a room in her house that she said I could use as a perminant set up Oh, I also need to have a thermometer in the fridge to see if it's at proper temp. and also they would check the hot water to make sure it's at the proper temp I do have an offer from a friend of mine she has a fridge that she would be giving me if I wanted it. It's in very good shape...she wanted a larger one as their family has gotten bigger. I would not need the fridge because gumpaste does not need to be stored in a fridge. And the ingredients that I use do not need to stored in a fridge. Even if I did have to store something in the fridge I can store them in a container in the same fridge that I use for my family....it just have to be seperate in it's own container and clearly marked what the content is. Basically I need a room....a work table...and storage containers that would be safe from humidity for the leaves and flowers etc..that I make Of course I would need more cutters and tools for the gumpaste and the colors that I use...that's where the cabinets come in. I have cabinets in my walk in pantry......my MIL does not have any extra cabinets but she does have a closet in the room that she said I can use...
I'll be contacting the Dept. of Ag....I don't need to go through the Dept. of Health here where I am....it's all the Dept. of Ag.
I've heard some horror stories about people having to re-do total kitchen and people getting turned in for not running an above board business. I have five children and a DH that I adore...and a MIL that I love...I would not risk anything that would get any of us in trouble.
I'll let all of you know what I find out. I see both sides of the coin...I don't know anyone in their right mind that would eat any gumpaste flowers...YUCK!!
I could very easily market them as made in the USA!! That's a really good idea. I don't buy gumpaste. I make my own and the ingredients I buy are all US based companies.....great idea!!
There's alot to think about and I know if I do things on the up and up this could be a good business for me.. 
Excellent! You are lucky to live in such a convenient area. I hope I can find a similar location in the future.
Meantime, did they mention testing the water quality? One of my afore-mentioned friends, who lives in a rural area, was required to have her water tested. I do not know if it is because of the industries that previously existed there, or if it is a general requirement.
Theresa
Yes, we have private water and will need to make sure that it is potable. They check for bacteria and what not. We live right up the road from a place that send it out for you.....so that's also very convenient. When I talked to the township over the summer about the zoning they said that as long as I didn't have more then three people working for me ( like I would have anyone working for me...LOL) and I had a parking space for customers....I have two but I won't need them either. All I have to do is fill out the paperwork that they gave me with a sketch of our backyard and the measurments of our acreage.
Are you near any location that you could use a kitchen. I know there has been talk on their board abour church kitchens. Today we had a birthday party for my grandparents and it was at a township building. That kitchen was wonderful. They had a hugh fridge an eight burner stove, huge mixer. I thought it would be a perfect kitchen to check into renting.
I hope that you can find a place to work out of. I know it must be very frustrating. I am indeed very fortunate that I don't have all the hoops that I hear some people have. The only thing I have is my kitty and she's not going anywhere....I'll have to go instead...LOL
By the way, I looked at your pictures..I love the rose. It's very delicate and the colors are superb!
Thanks for the comment about the rose, Chrissy.
Yes, I have done the diligent search throughout my area. The only nearby church that has a kitchen is right across the street, but their program days and hours would not coincide with my needs. The nearest firehalls do not lease out their kitchens.
The city does not have any type of facility such as you described. Outlying townships do not rent their recreation halls to non-residents.
If it is supposed to be, it will be, right?
Are you a ICES member? You would probably be able to sell some of your flowers at their PA Chapter Days of Sharing. The next one is in November, so get busy!
Theresa
No, I'm not a member with ICES. I always thought that you had to be very good and well established to do such a thing.... 
How do I find out more info on it. I would love to at least just attend and look around 
playingwithsugar boy Allentown sucks!! I'm in a county where it was soooo easy to get approved! No separate kitchen, no hoops to jump through, pretty much just no pets, separate storage areas, and therometers in the fridge.
JavaJunkieChrissy remember to have colorox at your sink for washing equipment and you need a separate hand washing sink (the bathroom) with paper towels no hand towels.
Val
Clorox and papertowels are do-able....thanks Val.
I think you answered questions for me several months back when I first started checking into a home based bakery!!
Thanks!
Chrissy -
Jacking the thread for a moment --
Oh, my gosh, no! ICES www.ices.org is in no way an exclusive organization! It is comprised of cake decorators and sugar artists from all levels of skill and experience. All are welcome.
Until recently, I was an Alternate Representative for Pennsylvania. I stepped down for personal and financial reasons. We were just in Bedford a few weeks ago, where Kim Morrison (2-time OSSAS Grand Champion) taught us how to do the jewelry boxes that they featured at OSSAS two years ago.
You can learn more about the organization by going to the website above.
If anyone would like more information about the PA Chapter, go into the Contact section (see column on left), and click on the US States link at the top of the page. Scroll down to Pennsylvania, and you will find the contact info for the PA rep. Tell her Theresa sent you.
And yes, Val, regulations abound here. Not only as far as baking, but businesses in general.
Theresa
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