I am at the end of my rope with my 4 yr old daughter. Yesterday was the icing on the cake. A close friend of ours had a birthday for their daughter, who was turning 5, and I have never in my life been so embarrassed. Lily, my 4 yr. old, was a nightmare!

She's been pretty bad for about 6 months now, but it has gotten worse since school started back. I don't know what to do with her. Over the summer, we were at a neighbor's house and she hit another little girl because she wouldn't play what Lily wanted to play. Hit her in the face! She has to have her way all the time. She bosses the other children around. Everyone has to play what SHE wants to play, or else she goes off and pouts. Sharing to her means that she gets to share what the other child has, but she doesn't share what she has.

DH tells me that it is just her personality, but I really feel like it is something that I am doing to make her this way. Sometimes when I hear her being bossy to other kids it sounds like me, but in her voice. I've tried time-outs, going to her room, taking things away from her, NOTHING WORKS. DS is as sweet and easygoing as he could be, if I was screwing them up somehow, he would be bad, too, right?

During the party there was a group of old people sitting around the kitchen table, and one old man didn't see ma and was talking about how "domineering" she was. I jumped in and let him know I was theere, and his granddaughter, the host, tried to cover for him and said that her being "domineering" was good, that the world needs strong women. Whatever. She was being bad all day long, and I'm not surprised that people were commenting.

Should I take her to a psychiatrist? Is this normal and will pass? Is there a book that I can read? I don't want her to grow up mean, and lonely. I really feel like this is my fault somehow.

TIA,
Michelle

First, my 5-yr old granddaughter sounds just like your daughter. I think it's partly the age, partly the 'back to school' thing. Don't know what it is, but kids tend to get "grouchier" right after school starts (and during the post-Christmas time period, too, so get ready for that one).

Is she the only child? My granddaughter just got a brand new little brother and that has made a big difference.

As the only child, she was the sole center of attention, and when she didn't get her way, it was Drama QUeen Deluxe along with Princess Syndrome! I mean, I love her to death, but there were different rules at gramma's house because gramma ain't putting up with drama queen bullsh**!

But with a little brother, she has had to learn to share mommy time, share attention, share her room. Kids aren't born knowing that.... they have to have experience doing it. And yes, it is normal for them to think that sharing means the OTHER kids has to give it up. Until they learn.

Kids also tend to know what they can get by with. My little Drama QUeen can get by with lots more stuff at home than she can at gramma's. I've seen kids who have figured out they can get by with lots more stuff at other people's homes because mom/dad don't want to "look bad" by reprimanding their child in front of other people.

Granddaughter was STARTING to get into the hitting other kids and her mom is telling her "do you think you're the only one who hits? one of these days, you're going to run into someone who's just like you!" Well, sure enough! Granddaughter smackd a neighbor kid, who smacked her back. Well hold on nelly you would have thought the world ended with the drama queen that went on there. We all sat back and said, "Told ya".

I don't think she needs a psychologist. Sounds like she just needs to learn how to play with other kids. Sounds like she's in a normal part of development ... learning that life ISN'T "fair" and sh** happens to EVERYONE.

Debi-no, she's not an only child, I have a son who is 2 1/2. He is a wonderful child, but she was too at that age! Maybe I'm just over-reacting, but it is sooo hard to be the mom of the kid who is being the brat. I don't think anything of it when it's someone elses kid, but I was mortified yesterday. Esp. when that old man was discussing it.

I honestly think its the age, I started watching my niece when she was 3, and I have been embarassed by her as well (though she never hit another child). I would make sure that when you take her places (especially b-day parties) that you give the talk in advance, with my niece, it went something like this "We are going to so and so's house for their b-day party, this is not YOUR special day, its so and so's, you will not jump in and try to open so and so's b-day presents, you will not grab them and play with them unless so and so invites you to, do you know when your b-day is? Your b-day is Oct 2, that is your special day.... this is so and so's special day and we MUST be on our best behavior. We will leave the party immediately if you are not on your best behavior....am I understood?" And yes we left a few parties early!!!!

I believe firmly in setting expectations with the child ahead of time, my niece is now almost 6, she would still love to be running the show and can be a handful with us, I do have to say that so far in school the teacher has been full of praise because she does exactly what she is told. So even though she makes us crazy sometimes and we worried about her spending lots of time in the principal's office, some of what we were teaching her seems to have rubbed off.

Good Luck. I will also agree with Indydebi that kids will usually misbehave more with their parents, I suppose because they are comfortable enough to do so...my niece is better behaved if I am watching her, if my sister is here though she can be AWFUL... same thing with my 2 1/2 son, he is always perfect for my sister when she watches him, and sometimes he is a handful around us.

Kids also go thru different stages of exerting their independence. At 2-ish, they have the "I can do it myself" stage, and we patiently go thru the crooked buttons and shoes on the wrong feet.

When they start school, it's another stage. they are "a big girl now" getting on the bus, or being dropped off at school. Some feel it's like going to work, like mommy and daddy. They are no longer under mom's every watchful eye 24/7. It's an expanded version of "I can do it myself".

No easy answer since every child is different. We told granddaughter that as much as she enjoyed going to birthday parties and such, if all the kids didn't like the way she acted, she wasn't going to be invited. We pointed out "remember when so-and-so acted that way to you? did you like it? then why do you think other kids like it when YOU do it to THEM?"

My youngest was my holy terror. I didn't think I'd ever survive it! Being "the baby" of the family added to her level of being spoiled. When she wanted our attention, she would stand in front of the TV. (I'd have fun playing with her by saying "oh, I can just watch the left side of the TV!" and she'd scoot to the left, then I'd say "Oh good, now I can see the other side better" and she'd move to the right! It was funny watching her do the dance to try to block our view!).

OUr favorite story is when she was about 3, she broke The Lion King video during a tantrum .... the movie she watched every single day. Then she started crying because she wanted to watch the movie! Big brother (about 10 at the time) got down in her face and said, "YOU BROKE IT!!!!!" We list this as one of her early life lessons on repercussions for your actions. It's actually still a joke-line today when something goes wrong .... we'll say 'Well, you broke The Lion King!"

But she did outgrow it and has turned out to be my arty-fartsy-talented child. I guess it was a preview of the tempermental artist coming out in her!

I agree with most of what everyone has said. I would just add to pick your method and stick with it. Sometimes with strong willed children it takes a while to get the point across. you have to be consistent...eventually it will work Good luck.

I agree that 1) consistency is the key, but it is THE hardest thing for me. 2) I don't think you are doing anything "wrong" per say, but I know what you mean about being embarrassed at being the mother of the kid being a brat at the time. Just remember that she isn't ALWAYS one. I am the mother of a strong-willed son, and it really can be tough to hold the line and follow through on what you say you will do.

One thing you might do is ask the teacher how she is at school. If she isn't doing it there, it could be partly that she is more comfortable with you and will try to get away with more. I know I can't be in my son's Sunday school class. They never have trouble with him unless I am in there trying to help the teacher.

You are really having quite a week aren't you-- between this and your son swallowing coins and falling off things. I hope that things get better.

Thanks, guys, you always give good advice.

I used to babysit my nephew from the time he was 2 months old til he was 4. We went through different stages with him. He knew better than to try his crap on me and he didn't like when I ignored him for doing what he was doing. He was a terror around his mom though. He did not do the hitting but he used to bite when he did not get his way. Well one day hit bit too hard and mom got mad enough to bite back well that was the last time he did that. She will out grow it you just have to wait it out.

Run, don't walk, to your nearest bookstore and buy a copy of "Raising Your Spirited Child". This book has saved my sanity, affirming that I am right in the way I handle lots of things my almost-5 yr old tosses at me, and showing me other ways to better handle issues. She is the third of four children, VERY strong willed and high spirited. I love that about her...but it also drives me out of my ever-lovin' mind sometimes.

I am not kidding. Get the book.

I have four kids...2 of which are spirited...one is apparently the Princess of Darkness. (she's one of my two yr old twins). Anyway, I find with my kids it comes down to consistency. They know what their reprecussions will be for each action they throw my way. If they don't share, they get 2 warnings. There is no 3rd warning as that is when we leave. If they hit, they get 1 warning. The 2nd--we leave. You have to follow thru with the consequences. My 10 yr old knows her own list of reprecussions. I want my kids to learn how to make good choices. So, when she asks to do something that we both know is borderline, I tell her this, " You know what the reprecussion is for that blah, blah. It is up to you to make the decision if it is worth the punishment." I say this with a smile and sense of humor and it works great. This gives her all the power to decide if she wants to be grounded or not. Looking back at my own youth, I think of the times that I opted for the grounding because the other choice was SOOO worth it.

I will definitely get the book. Thanks for the info.

"Sometimes when I hear her being bossy to other kids it sounds like me, but in her voice. "


Ummm, you said that in your original post. Don't take it the wrong way, but is she learning from you? Obviously, I don't know you or anything and I don't want you to take it the wrong way, but this sentence raised a flag with me. If she sounds like you, maybe she is just following your actions - whether you realize you act this way or not.
Again, please don't take this the wrong way or anyone else say I'm being mean, but you said you wanted advice and that's my two cents.

Another thought, could you possibly be pregnant? And the only reason I ask is that when my sister was pregnant with your 4th child the 3rd child would have hissy fits and act even more spoiled. And I think the 1st did it when she was pregnant with the 2nd two.

I agree with the prevous posters! Find a plan and stick to it! Being consistant is crutial. I have a "spirited child" myself. My now 9 y/o DSD. When sh was about 6 her room was stripped down to nothing but a bed a dresser for a week. She would throw things, throw herself in the sfloor, scream, break things, then after slapped me, it was time to do something drastic! We'd had enough. This was a learned behavior for her. Her mother rewarded her bad behavior because she wantd so badly for her to stop what she was doing. Not a good thing! The empty room a few times and she was over it. Now when she starts "spooling up" we tell her. . .Resist the urge! The room will be empty. That usually does it. I wish I'd had that book!

Elle

Also, one previous poster asked if she was learning it from you-- even if she is it doesn't mean you are doing something wrong. Sometimes kids imitate things in the wrong situation-- it's OK for you to tell her what to do-- but not for her to tell her friends (or adults) what to do.

"Another thought, could you possibly be pregnant? "

Good lord, no I am not pregnant! My last baby was 11#2oz., vaginal delivery-no more babies for me! lol

I bought the book and will read it tonight.

Let me clarify what I meant when I said sometimes it is my words coming out of her mouth. An example would be a kid accidentally kicked her in at a birthday party last Saturday. She turned around to him and told him that he really should be more careful, because that is how people get hurt. What she said is true, but IMO it's kind of bossy for a 4 y/o to be saying that to other children. Maybe I'm over-analyzing things.

OK... I'm going to get flamed which I'm used to.
I'm known around my house as "The Warden" at church "The General"
I am in no way bragging about these names... I have been given these names by other people. My oldest dubbed me the general about 3-4 years ago.. She did something wrong, I took everything I could for 6 months. I couldn't take away her right to breathe since God gave it to her. She was 11 almost 12 at the time.... After she went to her room & slammed the door a couple of times I took her door off the hinge & said "now slam it sister." Hence the warden of a prison.
The general at church because if I see a kid misbehaving & their parent is doing anything I will simply say very sternly "You shouldn't be doing......" The same kids know I love them & they come to me when they have a problem.
If she was my little girl I would go a step further. I have 3 strong-willed girls. Yes 3. All in different ways, but strong-willed just the same. Yes, I do believe in spanking a bottom when needed. It hasn't killed my girls yet. It doesn't happen a lot at my house because I do things like make them write why they love their sister when they fight.
You need to find out what works, which is why you wrote this I know. Pay attention to what seems to affect her as a punishment. Do not be afraid to reprimand her in front of people. Let her be embarrassed of her behavior instead of you.

My parents spanked me liberally, and so did my school. I rarely spank, b/c it has no effect on her.

My 4 year old daughter was a model child until this year - what a change! I find she misbehaves mostly when people aren't paying attention to her or are paying attention to her baby sister! All I can say is ALWAYS do what you say your going to do (this is my DH's downfall). If you threaten, don't back down from that! I really hope for all of our sakes that this is part of the age!!!

I sit here sometimes and wonder to myself, was it the tuna sandwiches that I ate while pregnant that made her this way? Did I do something that has made her this way?

OMG I got the Spirited Child book and was up half the night reading it. Both of my children are "spirited", but on the assessment quiz not all categories were 4 and 5 scores. Thank you to the poster who recommended it.

All good advice so far. One thing I would add is that if she acts this way during parties or playdates then it's over. Leave the party, leave the friend or take friend home. I give one warning and that's it. If you do this again, you don't get to do X and stick to it. I have four kids and we have missed birthday parties, sleepovers, and just having friends over because of bad behavior. I will accept a certain amount of kids being kids, but I expect my kids to behave, especially in certain situations. I'm sure some people would say I'm too strict, but I recieve tons of compliments on my kids behavior in public, so I'm doing something right.

"I sit here sometimes and wonder to myself, was it the tuna sandwiches that I ate while pregnant that made her this way? Did I do something that has made her this way? "

Alright, I have to admit I chuckled when I read this cause I always had that paranoia (SP?) when I was pregnant (but with me it was sweet tea's caffeine). But I'm also getting a little nervous here, cause my little one is no where near 4 (she's 15 mos) but she's already Miss Defiant. Eeek...it gets worse!? I'm sure yours'll "grow out of it" but like they've said, with a little gentle (or not so gentle) guidance. Simply the fact that you are aware that this behavior is not acceptable means you're on the right path...I've seen parents in public whose children act like holy terrors and they seem not to care.

I think partly it is the age. Other moms at her pre-school have said to me that their kids have been sassy and bad lately, but now that I've read the book I know that she is "spirited" too.

haven't read the book but I have some insight to share.

Kids ( and adults too) will behave in a way that gets them what they want. As long as they are getting it, they will continue to act up. One of my dd is so stong that she brings me to my knees almost daily. I couldn't change her so I started changing my reactions to her bahavior. She isn't getting what she wants anymore...my undivided attention...so she is beginning to change her behavior.

I set up a list on the door of our pantry. It is called an If/Then chart.
If you do this, this will happen.
It's in black and white...no sense arguing.
Be consistent.
Once you let one instance slide....all rules are off. At least that is what I have noticed with my own bunch of kiddos.
Stick with the rules and she'll come around.

And no, I don't let public acting up slide cause I don't want to be embarassed. I'd be embarassed if she were allowed to make a fool of our family in front of anyone. I stop, leave and refuse to take her out again until she can behave. She didn't go anywhere but church for three weeks. And there she sat with me and missed Sunday school. So boring!! Too bad. I'm tough!

I hope you find the answer you need to make your relationship peaceful. It's not fun to live in a rebellious home.

mommachris

mommachris, you are MY kind of mama!!

indi made me blush

mommachris