A very good friend and I took Wilton courses I-III together two years ago. Gradually over the following year we became cake decorating fanatics. I've spent literally thousands of hours here on CC learning. We've both read a lot and talked with other decorators, gathering advice, and have acquired a lot of equipment. Our cake decorating skills range from better than average (compared to bakeries) to very nice, but I wouldn't say we've reached "terrific" or "outstanding". We are comfortable with--and enjoy--fondant, but are just beginning gumpaste. I can ice a cake to look like fondant; she's great with ideas. We both do fine with flowers, but both need improvement with straight piping and lettering. Combined and separately we've probably only produced about 50 cakes, most of which were freebies. We work very well together and have never had a hint of argument. We're both in our fifties.
She has an unused attached garage that could quite easily be converted to a licensed kitchen, and her husband is in agreement. He likely has the "small business knowledge" needed, but I'm not sure.
My questions:

Are we too old, at this experience level, to head down this path? (Skills take time to develop. Customers take time to attract. Cakes are heavy.)

If you've successfully done this with a friend, what advice do you have?

If you've unsuccessfully done this with a friend, what were the problems?

Any and all input is greatly appreciated!

Thank you all.

I wouldn't be a bit concerned about your age. I'm 55 and just starting to plan a cakery. As for with a friend if you share the same goals and passions I think you would be alright. One of the great benefits of being in your 50's is your maturity level. If you were both 20 I'd say you might beware. But in this stage of life you need to pursue happiness, peace, and joy and if making cakes together does that I say go for it!

I agree with previous posters regarding your age, I don't think that matters one bit, in fact you are probably more equipped to run your own business than most.

Before you start up though make sure you are on the same page in terms of what sort of work load you both are willing to take on. You could find yourselves very busy and unless you both have the same amount of time and energy to commit to the business there could be some friction between you.

As long as you have considered all the little things and agree on most I would say go for it and good for you!

Get everything in writing!

Would you be depending on this as income? Giving up one job to start the business? <<<<Cheryl

I just wonder what happens if business is booming and something happens to her (illness, etc.)... are you suddenly out of business too because the business location and equipment are at her home?

There's an awful lot to think about, and a lawyer will help go over the pros and cons with you. Many attorneys will give you free advice over the phone.

I haven't read the other replies but the only thing I see here is that she has a garage that you two would be working from. here's my red flag: what is there does come a day when you two don't agree. you have your things in her house. she could lock you out(not that she would) but I would be carefule there. And are the two of you going to share the cost of remodeling her garage? or will she be doing that herself and then the two of you just work together? I would really think about that situation. other than that, i say great go for it if you get along i don't think age matters.

Yep I'm in agreement, no matter how fantastic the friend, friend or not, when it comes to the business arrangements, treat everything in a business like manner, get EVERYTHING in writing, never say or take each other's word no matter how long you've known each other, otherwise you are asking for things to go pair shaped!

I'm in agreement with the other posters. You can proceed, with great caution, if you work out all the details, put them in writing, and HAVE AN EXIT STRATEGY FROM DAY ONE. If one person wants out, has a hissy fit, whatever, have a written procedure for how things dissasemble.

This from a person who did invite a friend to be a partner--a now FORMER friend who stole my SSN from our accounting software, logged into my personal bank accounts for over a year, actually impersonated me at the bank (triggered their fraud alerts, shut down all my accounts). And that only is the tip of the iceberg. Had to hire an attorney to even get her to negotiate with us, had to pay a lot of money I didn't have to spare to get her out of my life. Yeah, have a breakup procedure in place from the first moment, even if you never have to use it.

I would not.

The easiest way to ruin a friendship is to bring money into the mix, in almost any form.

I've been there, as far as starting a business with a friend. Got royally screwed. FH has been there, as he financed a friend to get started in business.. we're out $13k and a $50k car that has now gone missing.

TOO OLD????? Age should not be an object. Remember age is just a number!!! I'm just worried about something going wrong and the friendship going sour. Put everything in paper, I MEAN EVERYTHING!! It's very unfurtunate but when it comes to money sometimes even your own family could let you down. Seek legal assistance and make sure you make a contract.
Best of luck to you.

Age? What is that. I'm 57 & just getting started and not as advanced as yourself. Go for it. As far as with your friend..I'm sure that many work out but the odds ..... Remember there is a 3rd silent partner if I'm reading between the lines. Husband of the owner of the garage ! Just makes me nervous about all my plans and dreams locked up at someone elses house. Gosh, what if he (sorry to think this) should pass away and has children of anoth..no so sorry i'm not going there. I want to be supportive. Please excuse my imagination. I'd certainly get an attorney.. which doesn't mean there will be no problems..just make sure it's a good attny. Don't want to put a bummer on things. Just things to think about. Here is hoping you hear some wonderful beautiful relationships that have only strengthened the bonds of friendship. I know they are out there.

I'm going to make it quite simple.....


DON'T DO IT!!

I don't think you're too old.

I think going into business with your friend is a great idea. However, it's the fact that the business will be based on one friend's property that holds the hesitation factor.

If everything was an equal sacrifice and on mutual ground and it was written that should one decide to want out that the other had the option to buy her out as well as any other possible issues that may arise(like a pre-nup...you don't want bad things to happen, but you're prepared just in case they do).

I sure wish you and your friend all the best

Handymama, If you lease a space together you will be equal owners.
If you set this up in her garage, it will be her garage. Down the road, you want out, does she buy you out or not? If you love it, build it where it will benefit you both, tax wise and investment. Yes, I've owned my shop in a leased space for 7 years and I love it! CindiM (over 50)

I agree with everyone cautioning you to get everything in writing.

Here's a quote from Entrepreneur.com, "Partnerships are like marriages you expect to end in divorce: Its nearly impossible for two or more people to be on the same life trajectory forever." Here's the title of the article; Business Partnerships for Entrepreneurial Women - Entrepreneur.com

I've seen best friends ruin their friendship going into business together. However, I've worked for a good friend for 12 years and that works great.

First, I don't think you are ever to "old" to do something. My grandmother went bungee jumping for the first time at the age of 79. And she plans on going back when she's 93 because she wants to be the oldest person to do it from that bridge.

I think that if you and your friend are enjoying it, why not start a business! I think that it would be wise to sit down and hash out things legally. And talk about if you guys have a disagreement, how is going to effect your friendship.

I had a friend who wanted to help me out. I don't think we would have been partners. She just couldn't invest the emotional attachment that came with the business. She saw it more as a hobby. I see it more as a love. We decided not to go into business together. But she does help me out when at shows and we take some classes together.

I would be very careful also, and actually talk to a few lawyers. We have been in litigation for 3 1/2 yrs because a contract wasn't set up properly, when my husbands partner turned out to be a psycho!!
I think you should do it away from the personal residences, especially if it takes off.
Good Luck

i went into business with my best friend,

we had everything in writing, and were equally invested, we did have a couple of fights...it's kinda like being married, she decided after 2 years it wasn't for her.

i sold my house and bought her out with part of the equity.

we are still best friends....it can get hairy when the workload gets heavy...it's hard work, if you are doing it for a living.....seems like it would be a sweet deal if you are doing it as extra money in addition to a sposes income.

Can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's input. In response to some of the comments:

Some of the things we have going for us are:
Well-developed level of maturity
Lack of ego issues
Christians--way not perfect, but at least with a foundational code of conduct
Neither is greedy
We're both very fussy about having a quality finished product
Worked together under major time crunches--including weddings--and done fine; we're both very calm people and I'm quick-thinking and controlled in emergency situations
Neither is employed. (Both would be in very major horse-pucky if our employed husband were to die or become disabled)

Differences are:

I'm an organized clean-freak; she keeps her house cluttered and less clean (which means it could fall to me to maintain order. She likes cleanliness and organization, but is rather ADD and doesn't seem to know how)
Her energy level is somewhat less than mine, but she's a trooper
My decorating skills are ahead of hers
She's much more creative than me: she conceives; I copy

Fears:

As addressed above. The friendship matters more than the business opportunity.
The whole business end of it. I hate accounting. Neither of us knows much about the whole area of operating a business. Plus, not sure about how to divide costs and profits.
Not even sure how to attract business other than bridal shows. Afraid we'd be sitting there in our spiffy new kitchen with no one to bake for!

The how-to:

This part is relatively easy. Since it's on her property she would pay for the materials. My contribution would be the (fe)manual labor to bring it all together. Yes, I have the knowledge, experience and talent to do it. We have more than one contractor friend with whom I've worked who could pull the permits and be the "overseer". Essentially, I would be the self-employed sub-contractor at that point. A good friend at church is a former electrical inspector who trusts my ability and would advise when needed to keep it to code. Appliances, triple sink, building materials would be scrounged cheap or free wherever possible. I'm extremely good at getting blood out of turnips
In the event that she were to die, become disabled, lose interest or whatever I would either form a new agreement and continue in that space or take my (pre-listed) belongings, possibly purchase other equipment from her, and go elsewhere.

Option B: The house across the street from me is owned by a 100-yr-old woman. I've thought of offering to purchase it when she's ready to sell. I'd rent out the living quarters (ranch-style house with walkout basement) and put my kitchen in the basement. I'd love having it that close, and hopefully renters would behave themselves with the landlord so close by.

So, I'd say the biggest stumbling block is lack of business knowledge, followed by fear of damaging friendship, followed by "needs improvement" decorating skills. I so, so appreciate everyone's input and opinions--please continue--and see the wisdom of putting everything in writing. I have to say I feel a mixture of excitement and dread, and until/unless that dread turns to peace I won't proceed.

Who else has experience with this? I truly appreciate your thoughts.

I haven't been through this, but I have friends who have offered financial backing because they believed in me - but they wanted to be "partners". I said no for one reason only:

If I fail, I want to fail on my own terms and know that it was me. If I am forced to listen to someone else's ideas/etc. and I fail, I couldn't help but be angry with them. I want to be able to do things MY way and succeed or fail on my own. I'd really rather succeed than fail though. LOL!

okay i read this hear on CC a while ago so i don't know if my numbers are completely correct. but only about 10% of business's fail due to lack of trade experience (ie, you are worried about your decorating skills). the over whelming majority of business's fail due to lack of business skills! so what you should be worried about is not whether you can make pretty cakes, but can you budget? can you manage time? can you market your business? can you organize? etc. so before going any further, educate yourself on how to do these things. read books, go to seminars, find women in business groups. DON'T rely on her husband to do them for you, its your business you (and your friend) should know how to run everything yourself.

good luck!

I agree with Brandi.

DH always said that at the end of the day, it should be my business. I've put a lot of time and investment, sweat and tears, and I'm still going.

Excellent, beccakelly. Thank you.

I don't know if you have them over there but in Australia we have local community colleges where you can go and do evening classes, some are for fun ie cake decorating some are for other things ie. business, how to run a small business etc, so it may be worth both of you investing some time into doing one of those. I love the way you laid out your qualities, differences, the how-to's so I'm encourage to see that you are looking at it from the bigger picture. I really don't believe that the age thing is the issue, just that the legalities are formalised everything is on paper and you both go in with your eyes open as opposed to the whole oh we are friends and nothing will happen, because *&^% happens!

That is so funny nicolevoorhout, I was just about to recommend the same thing!

A local technical institute offers part time studies locally to me as well as many of the community colleges and continuing ed departments through the local school boards which have business and marketing classes and seminars.

I HIGHLY recommend taking at least one. That way you'll know if you'll enjoy the business side of things as much as the creative (you'll spend more time on the business side than you'd think!) They aren't too expensive here and can be fun.

I'm currently taking one through the local tech institute with a friend whom I eventually want to open up a dessert / white wall coffee shop with. The class project, in addition to assignments etc, is to develop and write a business plan for a possible business we want to open. We are doing this together to see if we will be able to work together on the business side of things and see eye to eye on it all.

This business plan will form a great basis for a possible eventual partnership if things work out.

Would this be a possibility for you?

I think you have possibly a great opportunity on your hands! Do your research and have everything in writing!

Best of luck!

crislen and nicolevoorhout-- Yes, we do have a community college here. I think classes have already started, but I'll check. Although I hate record-keeping, I do love learning and have always enjoyed a classroom atmosphere. Excellent idea to take the class together. There may be a short community ed. class available, but I think we need more than that. I'll check into it tomorrow.

I cannot stress enough the need for an attorney. Your own attorney - to ensure YOU are protected. Right now, it's hard to envision anything will go wrong, but speaking from my husband's experience in going into partnership with friends, it can. And it can turn really bad really quickly! You never think it'll happen to you, but please be prepared!