hi guys! this is my first post in the forums, so i hope i'm doing it right.

i have a question....i have had a total of 5 wedding cake orders and 2 of them either tilted or cracked and almost fell over (yeah, u heard me right)

i've come to the conclusion that until i figure this stacking thing out, i'm not doing any more wedding cakes

so my question is, how many dowels are you supposed to use for each tier and is there such a thing as using too many dowel rods? i just assume that it will b a pain for cutting/serving....should i even worry about that? i'm using a cake board in between each tier.....is there something else i should do?

the first cake pic (flowers) had what i thought were enuff dowels but i guess not really enough....it was very hot and that may have contributed to the leaning......it slowly leaned back over about 4 hours....this is a pic of the worst

the 2nd cake pic (bow) had very few dowels and the bottom tier ended up busting open....they saved the top 3 tiers from falling....but still....it was after i left so i don't have a pic of the damage

i hope these pics post.....if not, i'll try again
thx guys!!! i love this site and all the helpful ppl that belong to it!!

You can never go wrong by putting in the same number of wooden dowels as the size of the tier sitting on the dowels--a 12" cake with a 10" on top would get 10 dowels in it.

If you're using the larger plastic dowels, you can cut that # in half.

On cakes over 2 tiers, I always put one long, sharpened dowel through the entire cake and into the bottom cake board.

Rae

I agree with BlakesCakes. Make sure that all the dowels are cut the same length.

yup i totally agree, and you can never have to many dowels.....that's not your problem to worry about it being a pain in the but to cut..... as long as it gets there in one piece, that's all ya need to worry about!!!

What do you find the easiest way to cut your dowels? TIA.

how many dowels are you using? are they wooden or are you using the straws? (I'd never heard of using straws until I found this website .... always learning!!)

I've never used more than 5 wooden dowels and normally I just use 4. I cut one and then use that as a guide to cut the other 3.

I've also never done the "hammer a rod thru all the cakes" thing, (shudder! with the idea of trying that!) since I assemble all of my cakes on-site. (Boy, you guys who do that hammer thing are amazing to me! I am in awe!). But I always put my cakes on cardboards and then on a separator plate, with the plate sitting right on the dowels, so hammering a rod thru my plates would be kind of a bad thing! If you're just using cardboards, maybe it's your cardboards that are weakening, causing the cakes to lean??? Anyone else out there, who uses just cardboard, with some expertise on this theory?

thx for trying to help me out guys!

i use wooden dowels and i too cut the first one and then use it to cut the others.....they are exactly the same size (i check them a thousand times).....i use cardboard covered in freezer paper so i don't think it's warping or sogging.....i use 4-5 dowels in each tier.....i'm guessing i need to listen to BlakesCakes and use 1 dowel for every inch of the tier above.....and i too am terrified of hammering the center dowel....but i have a friend that decorates too and she just recently tried this with no trouble.....i guess i'm going to have to just go for it! indydebi - these 2 cakes couldn't have had plates.....i think that has something to do with my trouble tho cause i've done 2 wedding cakes with plates/pillars and they turned out great

anyone else out there with ideas? it sounds like more dowels is key and i need to stop worrying about the trouble they might have serving it

just saw another topic posted about this center dowel hammering and majority says it's easier than u think....i'm going to just go for it nxt time! :0)

http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-43595.html

I haven't done many tiered cakes, but maybe it is your cake that's the problem not the dowels. Is your cake dense enough to hold the weight. You said that one of the cakes broke apart. I think maybe that is caused by the cake not the dowels. You need to examine all areas where there could be a problem. But, like I said I'm by far no expert.

thx toristreats - but no, i use good dense recipes no matter what the flavor....i do a lot of 3D kids cakes too, so i know better than use a 'soft' cake....thx for ur advise tho! :0)

I was going to suggest that maybe your cakes werent dense enough, but I guess you have that covered. I have hammered through the cake board and it is not really a problem, just make sure it is shapened! Another way to do it is by making a small hole in the bottom of the board and then setting the cake onto a shapened dowel (from the bottom) does that make sense? Also doesnt leave a hole in the top of the top tier (if that matters) I have not made any wedding cakes though (yet ) so I wish i had more advice! Your cakes were beautiful though!

You can still use the pillars and plates - you just have to put the trim on there to cover the plates. (I have done this several times now) Using the new rounded edge plates that Wilton has makes it easier to hide them (no scalloped edges!!)

The freezer paper may not be enough to keep that cardboard from absorbing moisture and weakening either. If you use that, I would recommend using foil (instead of butcher's paper) all the way around it to be sure. I have done that and it works out well. (the foil on the cardboard)

I also use the center dowel hammered all the way through on every big cake I make - just a little extra insurance that it won't lean after setting there a while. It works perfectly - I have never messed a cake up doing it.

thx for all ur help guys!

merissa - i read about that technique in the center dowel forum topic as well....that does sounds safer, but i think i need to go for the hammering....oh, and LOVE the pic of ur little one eating cake! :0)

Quadcrew - thx for ur help.....ur mini wedding cakes r awesome!

Your cakes may be leaning, but they are pretty.

I have done the hammering too and it does work well. I will make a small slit in my boards to help it along. I sharpen my dowels with an electric pencil sharpener and hammer away!

I've had the same problems with the leaning, so I'm glad you posted this thread. Someone also suggested to me to use either the separator plates or double up on the cardboard to make it sturdier, then cover with clear contact paper. I haven't had an opportunity to try this yet, so I can't say first hand whether it helps or not. Maybe we'll both learn something Good Luck!

well - don't know if it's just the 'Grace of God' but the only time I've ever had a problem with tilting cake (in 8 years of business) was when I used straws for the doweling system - I do a lot of stacked cakes - transport them stacked ALL the time - I use regular single layer cardboard rounds under each tier - 6 dowels (3/8" wooden cut with 'snips') in larger tiers - 4 dowels in smaller ones - 1/2" wooden dowel sharpened with a devoted pencil sharpener and pushed (never needed a hammer) through all cake boards down the middle - I've read about so many mishaps reagrding dowled cakes - I thank God that I've never had it be an issue....I hope you find what works for you!

awww...thx leepat!

all u guys r awesome!! i LOVE this site!

Been there and done that. I have found a system that I have no trouble delivering my cake the night before and no worry. It is call Stress Free Support System. It is expensive but WELL WORTH IT. address is www.earlenecakes.com/stressfreeorderfrm.htm You can also use this system with Wiltons plates just make sure the support is between the plates post for legs for the stack cakes. And in about 1 inch if doing the plate - pillar - plate set-up. Hope this helps.

CEC3 - wow! that is cool! thx for sharing that with us!

btw...ur link is missing the 's' after earlene....but i figured it out :0)

One thing I have learned from all the classes I have taken in the past couple of years and from some of the best cake decorators in the world.
Always use foam core instead of cardboard. It will not absorb any moisture from the cake. Another thing to look into is if you are using wooden dowels, make sure they are solid wood and not pressboard.
And you can never use too many dowels for supports.
Just make sure you tell the person who will be cutting the cake to take them all out before cutting and serving.
Happy Baking,
Lori V.
Pastries By Vreeke

that's the other thing....maybe i should look into taking a class on stacking....i've never taken any classes....and most of the places around here require u take the beginning classes, before moving onto the more advanced ones.....i don't have the time, money or patience for all of that ~lol~

thx once again to everyone who replied to me on this! i feel a lot more confident now! :0)

Well, I hope I'm not too late to weigh in on this issue, but a couple thoughts occurred to me as I read through all the great advice here.

1) Are you delivering your cakes already stacked? I never do this unless I absolutely MUST due to space restrictions in my van. And if I have to stack and deliver that way, I make sure to always ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure I'm very securely doweled.

2) Your delivery vehicle and/or the roads you are traveling over: I discovered that any time I am traveling over less-than-ideal roads (i.e., something with a lot of previously-done repair work along the edges, plenty of potholes, bumps, lumps, and other obstacles), it is IMPERATIVE that I travel at less than the posted speeds, using my emergency flashers. I say: those speeds are posted to be the speed at which it is safest to travel. Well, if it's a 45 mph zone and my cake is only safe at 25 mph, guess how fast I'm driving??? The flashers let others know I am slow for a reason and they should be cautious.

Also, if your cake has a "tremor" or vibration, it can slowly edge a dowel out of place, even if there is no weight above it. I have had this happen to me only twice, and both times were when I was driving my husband's vehicle for whatever the reason. His car vibrated more when it ran and so, unfortunately, even though my dowels were in straight (as far as I could tell), the vibration was enough to move one off-kilter enough that it was shifting when additional weight was placed on top.

These tips have helped me and I've been making wedding cakes for over 30 years now. I hope that they can help someone else out. Nothing worse than delivering the leaning tower of Pisa cake when it wasn't ordered!

Happy Baking to All!

aobodessa - thx for the advise! the sad thing is that i am assembling the cakes on site, so the travel isn't the culprit....i hope i never have to transport a cake fully assembled! i would freak!

Well, I generally assemble on site, too, but it does happen that a "tremble" in the car can actually shift one of your dowels from the vertical position. Just make sure they are placed straight!

One of the things that has actually HELPED me with this is to use the hollow plastic dowels. They're about 3/4" - 1" across, and I buy them from my local cake supply shop, but I'm sure you can find them elsewhere. Because the diameter is larger, it's more difficult to have them placed so they are not sitting straight and flush with the cake board. I use these on all tiers 10" and larger, and you would be amazed at how sturdy and straight my cakes are now ... even more so than before. I highly recommend them to anyone who is having this kind of divviculty. I know they're a little more expensive than a wooden dowel, but for the price, they help to maintain my good reputation and that's something I just CAN'T put a price on!

Hope this helps you out. I hate to see talented decorators get discouraged because of something that is easily fixed. You just have to find out what that "fix" is for you!

aobodessa - what a great idea....i've never seen those, but i will look for them now

thanks again everyone! u all r so helpful!