MY 2 CENTS.
I DON'T CHARGE $50 FOR JUST A CAKE. I CHARGE FOR MY TIME, AND MONEY I'VE SPENT ON SUPPLIES(BOXES, BOARDS &SO ON) THE TIME AND MONEY I SPENT IN CAKEDECORATING CLASS AND THE UNIQUE CAKE THEY WANT, THAT SAM'S CLUB WON'T MAKE.
IF THEY WANT TO GET ALL GRASSROOTS ON ME THEY CAN, AND I DON'T MIND TELLIN THEM, GET A CAKE FROM THE WHOLE FOOD MARKET.
TRYING TO THROW ETHICS INTO CAKE BAKING/DECORATING--COME-ON! WE LIKE WHAT WE ARE DOING BUT WHO DOESN'T WANT TO MAKE A PROFIT? THAT DOESN'T MEAN WERE UNETHICAL. I'M SURE THE $45 JEANS I JUST BOUGHT MY DAUGHTER WERE MADE THE SAME WAY THE $12 JEANS WERE FROM SAMS. SHE WANTED THE NAMEBADGE AND THE UNIQUE DESIGN, BUT I DOUBT DILLARDS OR LUCKY BRAND JEANS FEELS HORRIABLE FOR NOT TELLING ME, I'VE BEEN ROBBED.

BAKE-ON

PS I DRINK DIET COKES AND CRYSTAL LIGHT TOO, BRING ON RAT POISON.

I have been cake making and decorating for about 4 months now with most of them family cakes but a few paying ones too. I have really only used doctored cakes as I work full time, have 2 toddlers, a must have daily exercise routine, and I have found they work the best for me so far. Plus, I have gotten a lot of rave reviews on the taste of the cakes and I am very honest when I say that I use a mix and then add in other ingredients. I agree that you should be upfront with any customer about this but I think a lot of people have gotten really steamed up about this topic, understandable because people are passionate about what they do. I will continue to use doctored mixes but I would really appreciate anyone who does only scratch cakes to post their recipes here as I would love to try them too. I have tried scratch recipes and especially with the choc cakes, found that they were crumbly and not as dense or moist, and I think that turned me off to them. It really boils down to being honest with the customer, having great tasting cake, and having fun doing it.

i've used mix cakes (following the box directions exactly--no doctoring!) and have had mixed results. My cakes seem to be a bit too moist, and do not hold up as well when filled/covered with fondant. Any suggestions on how to "firm them up" by doctoring the mix?

Thanks!

MariaRose, this is one I use when starting with a white cake mix (recipe is from The Cake Mix Doctor):

white cake mix (I use DH; plain, with no pudding added)
1 stick REAL butter, melted (I use unsalted)
3 eggs
2 tsp REAL vanilla extract
1 cup whole milk

combine all, and mix and bake as you normally would.

Thanks NeeNee30. Very helpful!

You are welcome, MariaRose. This is one of my favorites!!

From one who bakes all of my cakes, cookies and frostings from scratch. I do sometimes fudge on some my fruit fillings by using spreadable fruit like the raspberry one (which I let my csr's know) so my argument is this if you make a delicious cake from scratch you would not mind using that as a selling point to your customer its actually a plus in most instances. If you make a delicious cake from a box then you should be just as proud about letting your customer know that too. It is ultimately the customers decision as to whether or not they want a box cake or a cake from scratch. It's their money and they should and have a right to know what they are paying for. If you stand behind what you do it should not be a problem.

Wow this is one passionate topic! I don't think it's unethical or unprofessional to use mixes - but again I reiterate that I wonder what Mike's Amazing Cakes, Collette, and Duff do - when they have soooo many cakes to make each week, how can you make them all from scratch? I guess it's possible....but again, without any preservatives, how do you keep them fresh until you are finished decorating and delivering? I've had much more success and less varied results so far w/ cake mixes - but I would like to have some scratch recipes that I could call up as well - just haven't had much luck with them as of yet... especially with consistent results......

Anyway, I don't think it's unethical to sell someone a cake and use a doctored cake mix - UNLESS they specifically ask you about it. I also don't know how people can NOT use Crisco or some type of shortening in their decorating icing.... how do you make roses & things of that nature w/ all butter??? You must have some real talent and I'd love to learn your secrets of accomplishing those types of decorations w/out using shortening as a stabalizer! I agree, I don't love shortening all that much but I don't know how to quite decorate w/out at least some of it being in my icing. I LOVE french buttercream icing but can't for hte life of me get it smooth or decorate with it - how DO you change its consistency??

That being said - I would LOVE to be able to eat all organic, wonderful, natural foods & use all-natural (scammy type word - don't always believe it on a bottle but I think you know my intention) products - HOWEVER, I simply can't afford them at this time. (I know, how can you NOT afford them, it's your health? But still - those products aren't easily accessible and are a LOT more expensive). Anyway, I would love to be able to do all that but I can't - so I make compromises. I try to buy "natural" toothpaste, shampoo, body-wash, and I drink only filtered water & shower in filtered water and use filtered water throughout my home. HOWEVER, I do buy products such as cereals, puddings, waffles, etc. that I know are not completely organic and/or "natural". I have to make some compromises to be able to afford what I do buy....

Okay finally one more itty bitty point - as far as "freaking out" over propylene glycol and other such ingredients - you have to understand that unless you are a scientist, you may be getting some mis-information on products - it's especially important to check your source. If you are going off of MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets), they only give information for PURE, 100% use of the chemical - heck there are some things you use every day that are extremely scary when you read their sheets....but they are almost NEVER used at 100% purity - usually only in labs or something - not in any products you would use. Also, some companies will try to scare you into buying THEIR products by not including these ingredients and then builidng up a hype about them using the MSDS sheets when they really don't know how to read them. Now, I myself am not a scientist and cannot read these things but I worked in a company where I had to speak directly with the lead "engineer" or "developer" of some products and specifically asked about ingredients like propylene glycol - and was told the above facts. I also tried to find the "scary" information about that particular ingredient and found that most of hte information I gathered was from a specific company who had specific products NOT including that ingredients..... that company later went bankrupt and had a lot of issues for lying about ingredients & using doctor's names without their permision to spread their false information about said ingredient..... so check your sources for some things.

So anyway - if you read all of that That's my little 2 cents added Hey has anyone used the Cherrybrook Kitchen cake mixes? They're supposed to be nut free, dairy free, casein free, egg free, and have no preservatives, colors, chemicals etc. - how do scratch makers feel about using THOSE cake mixes as a base? (they're also more expensive).....
https://www.cherrybrookkitchen.com/index.html

UHMMM
I dont know.????????
if it is or not ethical?/
but I will say that 1 year ago i didnt know anything about decorating i mean i always did other things..but never paid any atention to this stuff
i just to make a cake from a cake box mix..i just to think taste good..not anymore some of them ..yeah..but there are some ..that no nono no
but i am very happy that the cake i make today..it is from scratch...completly ...done by me...that makes me feel good!
and recently ...making my own recepies...reading and reading advise from books ..of people that went to school for that...
if you could sell a 99c that is how much they put on sale some cakes mixes..and adding more stuff...
good for you!...why not....if your customers dont complaing?
i hear some people even ask for those ....
but i feel good that my cake it is so soft and moist without adding any syrups to it....

Cracks me up how we are talking about health issues regarding CAKE!

Cake is not good for you! Just cause its a little less bad for you doesnt make it good for you!

Reminds me of that movie where the guy lived off McDonalds.....got seriously unhealthy in a hurry....well DUH McDonalds is BAD for you...all fast food is...doesnt mean we can't have it now and then but it has to be about balance.... if one lived off cake alone.....they would also be seriously unhealthy and I think that would be true of any cake, Organicly contrived or not.

As for the ethical issue, if the customer is happy then I dont see the problem, IMO I think most customers are paying more because of decoration (how many of us admit that we actually like grocery store cakes----I do I do) but you just cannot get a grocery store to do the custom work (at least where I live)...

I don't sell cakes, dont really intend too I just want to make cakes for my family that have a bit more wow factor than what I can buy.....and since I dont have a sophisticated palate most cakes taste good to me (I love doctor'd mixes but I also like scratch) so all I am really trying to achieve is a cake that reflects the person I am doing it for...not just same old same old.

Whew...seems like the motor mouth nickname my family gives me could also describe my postings....ramble ramble.

maisza, what's your recipe? I have trouble finding moist scratch recipes.

Interesting the hard lines taken by some folks as to whether to use scratch or doctored cake mixes. Myself, I am pretty lousy at scracth baking, but with help of recipies on this site, plan to teach myself how to do them better. Yes some cakes are only good from scratch. But for the little I have done and sold, am having great success with the doctored cake mixes (and the Cake Mix Doctor Book). At least with these I know my results will be consistent until I get good enough to bake from scratch. At this point I am still working on learning to be a good cake decorator!

I'm beginning to feel like a broken record. I don't think there is anything unethical about using a cake mix or crisco etc.

It is unethical when you take money from someone for a homemade cake with buttercream icing and deliver them a Duncan Hines cakes with Crisco and water frosting.

If you want to be treated like a professional, act like one. When I use a mix a a base, which I do for gluten free cakes, I tell them I have a great supplier who makes great gluten free cake mixes. Then, with their permission, I use that as a base for their cake, since a lot of the alterntives to wheat flour are tough to stabilize and make rise into a proper cake.

When you choose to drink a Coke you do so knowing what's in it. I think you owe the same to your customers.

Like someone said, cake isn't really good for you at all, however, it's about what works best for each individual baker/decorator and the satisfaction of the customer. If someone asks about the cake itself, be upfront! I'm no professional cake maker or decorator but I believe both scratch and doctored recipes are good and there is a time, place, customer, etc... for each type.

Now, I have had little success with scratch mixes which has made me use doctored up versions with great success. I would love to try some scratch recipes that would give me consistent results in taste and texture so please, if you feel you can, let me/us know some of those fantastic scratch recipes!!!!

Agree Txkat, I do let anyone who asks that it is a doctored mix, no secret recipies here - the few folks who have bought from me know I am no scratch baker .....but luckily they love my cakes anyway! I would think that people who buy from the big store bakeries (and even some smaller ones) know they are getting pre-baked or cakes made from a mix, both for ease of baking and economics. As long as you don't "advertise" as scratch cakes, there should be no problem. I consider my caked home-made because this is where I bake and decorate, but never say from scratch. I don't know, does the term home-made designate a cake as from scratch?

hey texkat,
weren't you the one who posted about the white cake from "the pastry queen"? just made it, that cake is awesome! thanks for recommending it.

by the way, i love tamales! my family makes them every year for x-mas, oh, and lard is MUCH healthier than shortening loaded with trans-fats. i mean, we DO need some fats in our diets, its just when we go overboard is when we encounter problems.

you know what i love most about a scratch cake, beside the flavor? that not everyone can make one. i could care less whether a "baker" uses a mix or scratch, that's their own business as long as they are truthful to their customers. what's annoying is when i see alot of posts where people chime in saying that they used mixes because scratch cakes are "dry", just because YOUR cakes come out dry doesn't mean they ALL are dry, k?
a scratch cake is only as good as the person who made it.

No, MomLittr, I do not think that because you say your cake is homemade, you are saying that it is made from 'scratch'. My cakes are homemade, no they are not from scratch (well the majority are not from scratch), but they are homemade.
I also agree that a person should let the customer know that you are starting from a mix, if they ask. I would NEVER lie to anyone about what I use when I make a cake. I certainly do not advertise myself as a scratch baker, and if someone would prefer that they get a cake from scratch, I would certainly try to accomodate, but if I felt I couldn't deliver what they wanted by baking from scratch, I would let them know that and they could make their decision based on that. With absolutely NO hard feelings from me!!
As for my buttercream, I use REAL butter in mine. Yes, there is a small amount of crisco in it, but no water. I make it from scratch. You can not tell me that my buttercream is not the real thing.

I sort of skimmed through about 4-5 pages of this topic...so I'm not up totally to speed here, but I thought I'd add an interesting side note about cost difference.

I spent an inordinate amount of time fixing the pricing matrix to suit my (all scratch baking) needs. What I learned, to my shock, is that a mix with Wilton's Crisco frosting recipe costs almost as much as a scratch cake with IMBC when you get up into the large 150-serving recipe area. And unless I'm missing something huge, Wilton's Crisco recipe actually costs me MORE than Sylvia Weinstock's ibmc recipe. Go figure!

I'm not sure what the original question here was, but I will say that, personally, if I'm charging someone $700.00 for a cake, I want them to feel like they're paying for and getting high-quality (read: expensive) real vanilla, sweet cream butter, etc. I can tell the difference between mix and scratch, and I like both, but I advertise "freshest, finest ingredients", so I personally feel like I can't offer a box mix, ethically speaking...No one I've sold to has ever questioned it one way or the other though, and I have sold box mix cakes in the past, before I really figured out my pricing.

Here's the way it works for my business: I offer "custom cakes", and my pricing would seem too high for customers if they thought they were getting box mixes, since most cake shoppers would say "WHAT? You'll charge me $700.00 for a cake that came from a $.99 box! So the cake cost, like, what, 5 bucks??!" ! (the bride who said "anyone can squirt some icing on a cake" comes to mind) They have no idea what costs are really involved, *shrug*, I'd rather have them feel like they paid for high-quality, expensive-ingredient, scratch butter, eggs, flour cakes. That's what I'm here for--to offer a custom (and therefore different) alternative to the bakeries in this area, at quite a different price.

wow--I wasn't go to go on...sorry.

Let's not argue about it, though--it never ends. Whatever works for you and your customers is fine. It's up to each of us to do business in whatever manner we see fit.

As for food coloring, I also refuse FD&C chemical food coloring. I do everything with natural food colors. The best brand I've used so far is India Tree, but the yellow from Seelectea is my favorite for yellow.

sorry twinsline . . . but dailey's comment is kinda on point - there is a lot of bashing of "scratch" recipes that goes on here - i think the problem in many cases may not be that scratch cakes suck, but that many people never learned how to bake from scratch! It isn't meant to insult anyone in particular, but it is definitely time to stop attacking scratch baking too!

(notice change of topic from ethics of using cake mixes vs. scratch baking since continuing down that path is like beating a dead horse . . . . )

i think many of us who bake from scratch feel that it is a skill - taught in many cases by a parent or grandparent, and we even use family recipes. Baking from scratch requires precise measurement, the oven and timing to cooperate, the ability to see when the cake is ready - and even then, it can still mess up at times if you are not paying attention (the fire in my kitchen last week proved that point!)

But, that is the challenge for those of us who love it, and when our cakes come out moist and perfect, it is a challenge and sense of achievement that for us is more satisfying than when we bake from a "guaranteed" perfection of a mix cake. So, it isn't to criticize those who have had bad experiences with scratch baking - it is to say to keep trying - you CAN succeed, and scratch cakes aren't bad - if you haven't made one that tasted good yet, it is like reading a post from someone who writes that the marshmallow fondant doesn't work, or falls off the cake, so it obviously sucks. You just need to get a feel for scratch baking, and the timing, and what it is supposed to look like when it is done. If it is dry, then it was probably cooked too long, or the cups of flour were not properly leveled before being added. Many scratch cakes should not be cooked until the toothpick comes out totally clean - the touch test is much more effective.

This is something that will never be resolved.. Everyone has their own opinion and a way that they do things, in this instance... it's baking. I myself am a scratch baker... My customers would not be my customers if I weren't. Some people can't bake period (referring to customers) so... some might not care if it's from a box.. It's all a matter of preference.. But, in the end... if they ask, the truth should be told.