Just think I get to go to church today and hear the riot act again!
It's such a shame that church has become something to dread for you. I look forward to seeing the people in my church. They're kind, gracious, and really love me (despite my rough edges at times).
If only you felt that way about where you attend........
My children were all baptized, but mostly because we felt it was expected. Since then we have also left the Catholic church, and now see baptism as something completely different. I don't agree with infant baptism. I was baptized as an infant, but hope to be baptized again soon, now that I am an adult and can fully accept Christ and understand what that means. My children will also hopefully be baptized again someday, when they are ready.
Just think I get to go to church today and hear the riot act again!
It's such a shame that church has become something to dread for you. I look forward to seeing the people in my church. They're kind, gracious, and really love me (despite my rough edges at times).
If only you felt that way about where you attend........
It is not the going part I have issues with......It is hearing from everyone that we will go to hell because we have not chosen what is right for our daughter. And that she will be in limbo because we are bad parents.
moydear77 have you tried another faith? we (my DW and family) are lutheran-an offshoot of catholosism and we are extremely happy and very CHRIST centered and our catholic friends respect this fact and don't try to convert us they are just glad we have faith in our lives. pray on it and your answer will come
I became a christian on my own as a teenager, and was baptized, because I CHOSE TO BE! i totally do not believe that being baptized by anothers decision will "save" you- or condemn you... i think that a person has to truly understand the decision they are making- in their own heart. if people keep up with this nonsense talk, just politely ask them to mind their own beeswax- your daughter is young for goodness sake! i have 3 children and we are at church and bible studies all the time. my kids go to christian school- we are very active in ministry and missions, but not one of them are baptized yet. i will NOT allow them to until they understand what it means. they do know many many things and have a faith in god, but i dont want them to clumsily throw a decision around and then forget about it. let your daughter be the one to decide when she is ready, and as far as the god parents are concerned, if they love your children and commit to caring for them - then that is what matters. dont let a bunch of sour grapes spoil a good thing- dont let it take away from the faith that you have, and dont let them step on your toes! the best way to hush them up would be to look for yourself what gods word (not peoples opinions!) says- they cant argue with that ! do a little homework for yourself and then they'll not know what to say when you confidently respond to such ridiculous comments.
I am so sorry for your loss. I cannot begin to imagine what it is like to bury a child. I never knew there were threads like this here. But since I came upon this I will speak for myself. It is my simple truth and not meant as anything other than my simple testomony.This is what I believe.
I believe in The Living God who loves me so much that He sent His only Son to die so that I might have eternal life. I am promised this gift of eternal life with God if I believe in my heart in Jesus Christ as His Son, born as a babe, put to death on a cross and risen on the third day. He died to pay the debt of my sins so that if I confess/admit my sins to Him, and I'm talking directly to Him not thru a priest or other intermediary (sp) and turn away from those sins I will be forgiven, and He will remember them no more. The Bible says that a child is innocent until he/she reaches an age accountability, where they are able to decide for themselves whether they will believe these things and accept the free gift of God's Son. I am confident that when a baby dies God takes that child home to be with Him. They are even more precious to Him than they are to us, though that is hard for us to imagine.
When my babies were very young we dedicated them to God before our church family and promised to raise them to know of Him and His Son and to love Him as He loves us. In my dh's familie's church this was called baptism. I agreed to do it as a dedication. Later when they were old enough to make their own decision each of my 3 kids asked Jesus to be the Lord of their heart and life. Two were later baptised. I am not afraid for my son who has not been baptised. Baptism to me is to show our profession of faith in Jesus, not to save me or determine where I will go after I die. It's not something I could decide for them. I am thankful for the decisions they made.
I find it very disturbing when I hear of "religious" people using the death of a child to pound home their beliefs of pergatory/limbo in the absence of baptism. In many cases that would tend to push a greiving parent further from believing in God's Son and His promises than anything. I am a Christain, a follower of Jesus Christ. I am not more special than anyone else, I am just forgiven. I don't try to push my beliefs on anyone. I try to live my faith every day to the best of my ability so that others will see Him in me. That is what God asks and expects of me. That is the most I can do.
Again I am so sorry for those of you who have suffered the loss of a child.
Sorry this turned out so long.
my goodness , couldnt have said it better. i appreciate your sincere honesty.
Limbo must be a beautifull playgound full of jewish, muslim, hindu ect ect kids runing arround...don't worry for what other say, this will not be the first time someone else will try to bully you in to raise your kids their way, only you know whats best for your kid
I think CarolAnn said it best.
It breaks my heart to hear so many people who have "grown up Catholic" who leave the church. No church is perfect. Churches in general are SUPPOSED to be made up of broken, imperfect people who have recognized and admitted they aren't perfect and need a perfect Heavenly Father.
I live close or in (depending on who you are) the "Bible Belt" of the U.S. I went to a Catholic school for highschool and it amazed me how many people hated the church and couldn't get away soon enough...... I think that's horrible. I really think the Catholic Church needs to "wake up" in some areas - true, there are GREAT Catholic churches out there - I just seem to run into a lot of the "growing up Catholic made me hate God, religion, church, etc." kind of people. And it really saddens me that they view God & church & religion the way they do b/c it seems so wrong. There's so much structure & rituals and rules in the Catholic Church that I do not believe are biblically based and I think it hurts the people.
I don't mean to attack Catholics - it's just that my area is predominantly Catholic based and I see so many people running from anything religious b/c of their upbringing in the CATHOLIC church. So that's just my experience with it. Our church even has what I call a "Recovering Catholics" class - it's basically for people who have grown up Catholic and are so turned off by it that they've completely stopped going to church, stopped reading the Bible, etc. Or they come to our church and are blown away by relevant, upbeat music - services in English that are relevant to today & funny & meaningful, etc and they don't quite know how to take it. I'm non-denominational Christian. We follow the Bible and don't have a lot of traditions, rules, etc. We try to just love each other and follow the Bible - of course that doesn't mean any of us our perfect. I just truly get more out of church when it's not Catholic.
We do baby dedications at our church too - like you bring your baby in front of the church and promise that you will raise them to love and know Christ. We don't baptize until someone is old enough and wants to be baptized. And even then, at least as a child you have to go through a class to learn what it really means to be baptised so you don't just do it b/c your friends are doing it, or b/c your parents want you to -etc. And we allow anyone to baptize - fathers, mothers, sisters, grandparents, Bible teachers, etc. I believe it's a public profession of your belief in Christ and your acceptance of His dying on the cross for your sins. I think it's important and it is a command in the Bible to be baptized. However I also believe you can be baptized in a pool, in a lake, in the ocean, or in a baptismal pool at a church. God will meet you wherever you are.
Sorry I went on so long! I just wish you the best. If anyone says anything to you about limbo or your baby going to hell - ask them to point that out in the Bible - WHERE does it say that? If they can't tell you, then they have no basis for harping on you or imposing anything on you. Good luck to you!
As a practicing catholic, I think there is a misconception about infant baptisms.......yes we have them, however, you AFFIRM your faith when you are old enough to make that decision through the sacrament of confirmation (ie you are choosing to CONFIRM your baptism)......like I said in a previous post, I think we get hung up on the differences sometimes and forget to realize the similarities.....sounds like to me that the churches that do baby dedications make the same promises to their babies as we do...ie. we will raise our children to be Christian, and teach them by a good example.
If the Catholic Church isnt working for you, start visiting other churches, try out other faiths, I believe we have so many different faiths because how could any one size fit all of us!!!
I went to Catholic school and a priest we had during the time I was there encouraged us to research other faiths (in fact we did many a report on them) and he even encouraged us to visit different faiths....I took it to heart...I visited all types of churches, Luthern, Methodist, Non-denominational....etc... but I have always come back to the Catholic Church because it fits me (not all of it does mind you)....... I would encourage you to do the same!!!
Even all Catholic churches are not alike, mine has a teen mass every Sunday night, with Drums, electric guitars and contempory Christian music etc... I also belong to a Faith Sharing Group of women who talk about what it means to be a Christian in today's times and how we can do our part (recycling, volunteering at soup kitchens, etc etc) which has expanded my faith tremendously...
sorry to blab on and on.. but I just wanted to share!
mkerton - sounds like you have a pretty cool and very modern Catholic Church. I'm glad it works for you!
I think the biggest difference in the "baby baptism vs. dedication" thing is the full immersion baptism. As a baby, at least from my understanding, water is just sprinkled on for baptism - the child isn't "dunked" shall we say - in the water. And at Confirmation, while confirming your faith, you still are not immersed in baptism.
I believe my church's standpoint on the issue is that the word "baptism" means full immersion and that Jesus commanded us to be baptized - and all baptisms in the Bible are done by full immersion. That doesn't mean "Catholics are going to hell" - as some people might say (ugh and I can't stand those people!) b/c they haven't been fully immersed. My church just says that if Jesus commanded full immersion baptism, we should probably do it that way. We don't say it doesn't "count" if you were only sprinkled or anything like that - our standpoint is just that we believe Jesus commanded full immersion and that's the way we will do baptisms.
I don't want to start an ugly debate on what "counts", so please don't read this as an "attack" or anything like that - it's certainly not meant to be. I just wanted to point out the difference between baby baptism vs. baby dedication - w/ baby dedications, you are still "technically" supposed to be baptized by full immersion later as an adult. It's mostly for the parents to say they will try to raise the child in a Christian home - no sprinkling of water or oil or anything. Just wanted to make that clear!
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