Bluehue Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 3:33pm
post #1 of

For some time now i have wondered how some CC's know if someone can /should bake and sell a cake.

I see newbies come on and post a question about what to charge for a certain style of cake - and next minute - they are being put through the wringer as to............ do they have workers comp - public liability - this insurance -that insurance - this document - passed this and that inspection - jumped through all 10 hoops - etc.

I am thinking that there must be a site/list somewhere for you to click on and view so as to see what City - Town - State - County - Suburb - Street has which laws.

Truely - how do you know?
Some members don't even have where they live in their location - so how do you know to ask these questions - OR - has it just become parrot fashion to ask everyone who dares ask - how much do i charge?

Because sometimes the OP comes back and says - Yes, i am legal - but i never see the CCer putting them through the wringer come back and apologise for asking so many questions - and sometimes it is in a rather brash manner.

Yes, yes - i know i can be brash at tines - but thats another thread - icon_rolleyes.gificon_wink.gif


If i see a fellow Australian come on and ask "how much would you charge" - i would not have a clue as to whether they are legal or illegal - let alone what laws are set in their area.

So it has me curious as to how some in the USA know what laws are set for every different place.....


Just asking -

Bluehue

167 replies
Janette Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 3:45pm
post #2 of

When I first joined CC it was different. There were more home bakers and others didn't make an issue if they were legal or not they just helped with the question.

I don't come here much anymore because it's different. If someone wants to comtribute to a thread they need to keep those issues to themselves.

There are many issues that can stir up the pot that should be avoided but the're not.

It's the individual's business if they are legal others should move on.

All I can suggest to you, if you come across the rude members just move on to another thread.

Bluehue Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 3:55pm
post #3 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janette

When I first joined CC it was different. There were more home bakers and others didn't make an issue if they were legal or not they just helped with the question.

I don't come here much anymore because it's different. If someone wants to comtribute to a thread they need to keep those issues to themselves.

There are many issues that can stir up the pot that should be avoided but the're not.

It's the individual's business if they are legal others should move on.

All I can suggest to you, if you come across the rude members just move on to another thread.




Points taken thumbs_up.gif - i just thought there must have been a Google List for the States.....as we don't have anything like that over here.

Bluehue

Texas_Rose Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 4:01pm
post #4 of

There is a list, actually. http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-586218.html

Personally, I don't care if someone is legal or not. I only mention it if it directly affects what they're asking.

Bluehue Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 4:15pm
post #5 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Rose

There is a list, actually. http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-586218.html
Good grief - there is - how about that icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
I often wondered how some *knew*
Thanks Texas Rose -


Personally, I don't care if someone is legal or not. I only mention it if it directly affects what they're asking.

Being way over here it doesn't concern me either - as i said - i just wondered how some *know* to ask all the questions they do -

Blue.


jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 7:27pm
post #6 of

The questions I (and others) ask when people post questions about pricing without mentioning what steps they have taken to get legal are important points to consider. You may consider it being put through the wringer, but like it or not you play by a different set of rules as soon as you accept compensation for something you've baked.

The legal aspect also directly impacts pricing -- if you have license fees, inspection fees, insurance premiums, etc. you need to take those into account when pricing your products to ensure you are profitable. But if the place you live allows commercial home baking then your prices could be considerably lower.

I also don't think it's necessary to apologize for asking questions based on the available information in the OP if said questions turn out to be moot based on followup posts. Part of the problem is that there is no master list of what's legal where, so forums like this are where a lot of people get this type of information.

When asking these questions, the worst case scenario would be the OP following up stating that they have already considered the legal aspects of their business and the thread would move on from there. The best case scenario would be the OP getting useful information and making an informed decision on how to proceed with their business.

If no one brings up these points and the OP forges ahead without knowing what's legal and what's not (and more importantly protecting themselves from liability) they could face a financial disaster down the road. There have been threads here where people have lost their homes because they did not have adequate protection from liability.

Texas_Rose Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 7:39pm
post #7 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

There have been threads here where people have lost their homes because they did not have adequate protection from liability.




I must have missed those threads. Links? Or any details you can remember that would help me search for those threads?

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 7:42pm
post #8 of

Here's the example that stuck out in my mind:
http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=6948695&sid=0f3281abd34905938ad9a31b079af80e

And here's another (the 2nd post):
http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopic-612960-30-days0-orderasc-.html&sid=6e38eb0a410b3cbb8bdb11aaa255b754

Texas_Rose Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:04pm
post #9 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Here's the example that stuck out in my mind:
http://cakecentral.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=6948695&sid=0f3281abd34905938ad9a31b079af80e




Thanks. I had read that first one before. Relating a story that one heard somewhere from someone who knew someone it happened to is sort of venturing into the territory of urban legend.

The second one is more interesting, though. I'd be interested in details...what she was making that actually made people sick, which illness they came down with, etc. There's just enough info there to make me curious and not enough to really look it up.

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:09pm

Yes I get very tired of certain threads with simple questions becoming the target of the "CC legal police".

I also feel sad when I see somebody with a question and they feel like they have to say "I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance, no I don't put bare wires in cakes, yes I sanitize my dishes, yes I wash my hands six times in bleach every time I touch the cake, yes my cake board is food safe, yes I have insurance on the vehicle that transports my cakes, yes my clients sign contracts, yes I take deposits, and yes, I've contacted my lawyer about everything else.....and yes, I bake from scratch. Now about my question....."

LOL.

Texas_Rose Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

Yes I get very tired of certain threads with simple questions becoming the target of the "CC legal police".

I also feel sad when I see somebody with a question and they feel like they have to say "I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance, no I don't put bare wires in cakes, yes I sanitize my dishes, yes I wash my hands six times in bleach every time I touch the cake, yes my cake board is food safe, yes I have insurance on the vehicle that transports my cakes, yes my clients sign contracts, yes I take deposits, and yes, I've contacted my lawyer about everything else.....and yes, I bake from scratch. Now about my question....."

LOL.




That's true. There used to be a lot more information shared and less judging going on.

Sangriacupcake Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

Yes I get very tired of certain threads with simple questions becoming the target of the "CC legal police".

I also feel sad when I see somebody with a question and they feel like they have to say "I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance, no I don't put bare wires in cakes, yes I sanitize my dishes, yes I wash my hands six times in bleach every time I touch the cake, yes my cake board is food safe, yes I have insurance on the vehicle that transports my cakes, yes my clients sign contracts, yes I take deposits, and yes, I've contacted my lawyer about everything else.....and yes, I bake from scratch. Now about my question....."

LOL.




This definitely made me giggle!

sebrina Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

"I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance, no I don't put bare wires in cakes, yes I sanitize my dishes, yes I wash my hands six times in bleach every time I touch the cake, yes my cake board is food safe, yes I have insurance on the vehicle that transports my cakes, yes my clients sign contracts, yes I take deposits, and yes, I've contacted my lawyer about everything else.....and yes, I bake from scratch. Now about my question....."




ROTFL!!!! Can I PLEASE use this as my tag line here on CC!!!! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebrina

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

"I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance, no I don't put bare wires in cakes, yes I sanitize my dishes, yes I wash my hands six times in bleach every time I touch the cake, yes my cake board is food safe, yes I have insurance on the vehicle that transports my cakes, yes my clients sign contracts, yes I take deposits, and yes, I've contacted my lawyer about everything else.....and yes, I bake from scratch. Now about my question....."



ROTFL!!!! Can I PLEASE use this as my tag line here on CC!!!! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif




LOL...we probly all should...so we don't have to type it each time. haha.

Kiddiekakes Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:40pm

Ha!Ha! Kitagrl..You made me laugh...

mfoxx9 Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 8:59pm

I'm actually somewhat grateful for this website and the posts I found when I was first starting to think about selling cakes. When someone first asked me to make a cake for them, I was completely ignorant. I had no idea about the legalities. It didn't even occur to me that it might not be legal to do from home. Luckily, I found CC and did a ton of searching to find that Ohio does, in fact, have a cottage law. There are some rules to follow, which I would never have known without the helpful posts like the ones you've mentioned. Same with liability insurance - not a thought in my mind until I found a post about it. Now I am completely legal under the cottage law and insured, all thanks to CC. As long as it is done in a kind and helpful manner (which, granted, sometimes it's not), keep the information coming!

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 9:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

they have to say "I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance



Your post was amusing, but pragmatically if someone asks a business-related question it does help if they include their licensing and insurance status (those are the two most important points by far). If they don't mention those points, more often than not they are either unaware of local legal requirements or they don't intend to follow them.

I've been seeing this more often on the boards, it doesn't take a lot of effort to type an extra 4 or 5 words.

And I'm not sure how merely bringing up these points is equated with judging others?

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 9:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

they have to say "I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance


Your post was amusing, but pragmatically if someone asks a business-related question it does help if they include their licensing and insurance status (those are the two most important points by far). If they don't mention those points, more often than not they are either unaware of local legal requirements or they don't intend to follow them.

I've been seeing this more often on the boards, it doesn't take a lot of effort to type an extra 4 or 5 words.

And I'm not sure how merely bringing up these points is equated with judging others?




I'm not completely sure why it matters if someone tells you whether or not they are licensed....? That's not what this site is for, really....its for cake decorating the hobby. There is a business forum, but by and large the site was created for hobbyists.

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 9:32pm

For some reason business questions (including pricing) that are posted in the business forum often end up being moved to the cake decorating forum. I have no idea why the mods are doing this, but a business question in a cake decorating forum is still a business question.

If the question is not business-related then I agree that licensing and insurance don't matter.

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 9:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

For some reason business questions (including pricing) that are posted in the business forum often end up being moved to the cake decorating forum. I have no idea why the mods are doing this, but a business question in a cake decorating forum is still a business question.

If the question is not business-related then I agree that licensing and insurance don't matter.




I will agree that the mods are awfully busy around here. icon_lol.gif

mplaidgirl2 Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

they have to say "I have a question but first yes I am licensed, yes I have insurance


Your post was amusing, but pragmatically if someone asks a business-related question it does help if they include their licensing and insurance status (those are the two most important points by far). If they don't mention those points, more often than not they are either unaware of local legal requirements or they don't intend to follow them.

I've been seeing this more often on the boards, it doesn't take a lot of effort to type an extra 4 or 5 words.

And I'm not sure how merely bringing up these points is equated with judging others?




How about just don't answer thier question if your so concerned about it.

I'm sorry I've said it before... I went to multiple places to ask for pricing before I became legal... Why? To see what I should be charging... and to see how much I would be making per cake before I jumped in. Why should someone not be able to do the same here? I wish I had this website 2 years ago when I was going from bakery to bakery.

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 9:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mplaidgirl2

I'm sorry I've said it before... I went to multiple places to ask for pricing before I became legal... Why should someone not be able to do the same here?



People can and do ask those questions here all the time, and no one yells at them or berates them for it. If you were to post that question while you were still in the process of starting up your business, and someone asked if you were licensed and insured, you could just say that you're still working on getting all the legal aspects squared away.

I would rather give someone information they already know than fail to give someone critical information they don't know.

Quote:
Quote:

How about just don't answer thier question if your so concerned about it.



My concern that people should be able to make business decisions with as much information as possible is the very reason I answer these questions. icon_smile.gif

You can also flip that around...why is person A so concerned that person B is asking person C questions about person C's business in a business-related thread? It's almost as if there's a cake police police. icon_wink.gif

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:02pm

I've had people ask ME if I'm licensed and insured in a thread before. It gets old, I'm sure, to people who come here regularly. I shouldn't have to preface all my threads with "I am licensed and insured and I would like to know...."

Should I?

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:08pm

Perhaps CC should add options in the user profile where you can include whether you are a hobby baker, aspiring business owner, current licensed business, former business owner, cottage food business, etc. This information could be shown under your avatar alongside your join date, post count, and location.

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Perhaps CC should add options in the user profile where you can include whether you are a hobby baker, aspiring business owner, current licensed business, former business owner, cottage food business, etc. This information could be shown under your avatar alongside your join date, post count, and location.




Eh. Then heaven forbid a newbie get online...they'll get attacked! LOL!

jason_kraft Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Perhaps CC should add options in the user profile where you can include whether you are a hobby baker, aspiring business owner, current licensed business, former business owner, cottage food business, etc. This information could be shown under your avatar alongside your join date, post count, and location.



Eh. Then heaven forbid a newbie get online...they'll get attacked! LOL!



Why would they get attacked? At worst someone would recommend including this info in their profile.

RheaCakeQueen Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:20pm
Quote:
Quote:

Eh. Then heaven forbid a newbie get online...they'll get attacked! LOL!




Trust me, from personal experience they do.

southerncross Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:46pm

I nominate Kitagrl for best poster of all time...we need humour ....of course, I'm in the rural south where our motto is "better to ask forgiveness than permission' ... we're used to running from the revenuers and health department inspectors!

Kitagrl Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by southerncross

I nominate Kitagrl for best poster of all time...we need humour ....of course, I'm in the rural south where our motto is "better to ask forgiveness than permission' ... we're used to running from the revenuers and health department inspectors!




Oooh Oooh I like your siggy even BETTER!!!!! Don't forget you have asbestos in the cake boards along with the lead wires!!!!!

HobbyCaker Posted 30 Jun 2011 , 10:57pm

Ok fellow cakers, checkout my tag line. I changed it before this thread was started, being one that use to be worried about asking questions and rather the "legal police" as another OP put it would be one me like flies on flypaper. Yes I am LEGAL!! I chose not to advertise or have a website, I strictly go by word of mouth. I stay as busy as I want to be. I DO NOT want a business per say, but I have jumped through the hoops to get legal so that I and my customers are protected. I have told several local people that have asked why I don't "ACT" like a business, and my reply is- "It is and was my money to spend however I wanted to, and if I want to make 4 cakes a week or 40, that too is my business. Officious people annoy me. But truly helpful people are great. Asking how much you should charge for a cake doesn't mean I want the whole run down on all the rules and regulations in my state or yours or anyone else's. I have been legal for some time, and have chosen up until now to keep it to myself. This thread caught my eye, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the responses I have gotten from fellow cakers when I have asked for help, I would say on average 99.9% of you are truly out to help others and then you have the .1% of the officious people!

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