This Has Been Bugging Me, And I Cant Say Nothing(Long)

Lounge By motherofgrace Updated 2 Jan 2010 , 2:08am by JanH

motherofgrace Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 5:47am
post #1 of 62

This has been bothering me for a little while now. And I have to discuss it. I just hope that it doesn't turn into this big thing.

Over the past little while I have noticed people being quite rude here on the forums. Baiting people into arguments. And just saying things that are plain nasty.

I will not name names, but its things like, in one forum, an OP was frustrated, and a replier said "If it makes you so upset, then maybe your should find a new hobby"

Explain to me why things like that need to be said?

This site has taught me basically everything I know, you could ask a zillion questions, and they would all get answered. You could vent about things, and people would talk you though it.

So my point is..... If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all. Im not saying dont have an opinion, but dont be outright rude....

Anyways, thats it.

61 replies
ApplegumKitchen Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:33am
post #2 of 62

As you can see by the number of comments...... it won't turn into a big thing !

icon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_razz.gificon_razz.gif

motherofgrace Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:39am
post #3 of 62

ya, apparently it one bothers me

shelbur10 Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 12:39pm
post #4 of 62

I think it bothers a lot of people. But I look at it like this, there are rude people everywhere in the world. The kind, generous, truly nice people on this site far outweigh any rude ones, so I just ignore them.

Mike1394 Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 1:07pm
post #5 of 62

You should name names. Take it to PM. If you don't like the direction a thread is going, why keep reading? If you think someone is being rude, PM them. You took the time to post that this has been bothering you, and take up board space why not name names? I honestly think that it's rude that you brought this public.

PM me your phone # when I think someone is being rude I want the internet police to come and spank them.

Mike

Doug Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 1:22pm
post #6 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sweetheart-

... but its things like, in one forum, an OP was frustrated, and a replier said "If it makes you so upset, then maybe your should find a new hobby"

Explain to me why things like that need to be said?




it's common sense advice -- stating the obvious almost.

may not be what anyone wants to here, but it is the truth.

if it isn't working -- then stop doing it.
if it's driving you batty -- then stop doing it.
your sanity/happiness is not worth the angst.

it was not a rude comment, merely the straight forward, unvarnished, no sugar coating truth.


----

which leads to my pet peeve -- the need to stroke egos and sugar coat every piece of advice or comment.

ApplegumKitchen Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 1:50pm
post #7 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

...which leads to my pet peeve -- the need to stroke egos and sugar coat every piece of advice or comment.




Couldn't agree more - but unfortunately I think this is where society is heading.

The molly-coddled generation ! not necessarily ALL young people but people who just want everything to be NICE (and handed to them on a silver platter with LOTS of sugar coating) - the Stepford Society!

That ISN"T real life though..... Real life has LOTS of different people, with lots of different ways of expressing themselves, with lots of different experiences and knowledge. Its also what makes life INTERESTING!!
CC is a community of people from all parts of the globe and from all walks of life - if you are looking for a sanitised source of information with NO personalities at all - consider sticking to G.O.O.G.L.E. - oh thats right ..... that's TOO hard !! icon_wink.gif

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! to bring in the new decade lets learn to ... turn the other cheek!! Geez - its not like you can't click OFF if you are so traumatised by what you read.

I really don't know what you hoped to achieve by this post anyway

just_for_fun Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 2:14pm
post #8 of 62

Hey, it bothers me too. But there's honesty, and there's rudeness. Two different things. I don't mind being told things I don't want to hear (probably lurking somewhere in my brain, I just don't want to face reality), but I don't have to be bashed for it.

Now, about someone being frustrated, so they should drop the hobby - I mean, don't they say fall seven times, get up eight? Of course its hard to fall, she probably came for advice or support, and she'll get up and try again, let it be learning experience. You don't quit everything that frustrates you. It just helps to get support, not necessarily ego stroking, from like-minded ppl who understand how much goes into caking/baking.

ApplegumKitchen Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 2:30pm
post #9 of 62

Trouble is .... what some people see at rudeness others don't - it's all about perception - I've have seen plenty of people getting their knickers in a twist over something so trivial and innocent that I am left shaking my head - more often than not what was written was NOT intended to be taken the way that it had been.... NOT the fault of the poster.... but definately the fault of the reader!!

Loucinda Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 2:41pm
post #10 of 62
Quote:
Quote:

But there's honesty, and there's rudeness. Two different things




I agree with this - and it is not always the way the reader takes it....there are some who are just rude, period. (thus the post Jackie made about a month ago to address it) for those that haven't seen it - here is a link.
http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-661107.html

_Jamie_ Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 3:36pm
post #11 of 62

A thread like this pops up about once a month. I'm glad that there are personalities and hotheads like myself. Keeps it fun. Like Mike suggested, if you were personally offended, PM them. And an observation....some of the hottest of hotheads usually have pretty durn good advice and experience to back up their "offensive" comments.

I am offended by the kitty huggers who baby and pamper newbies through something some of us know dang good and well is going to be a disaster. It's too bad that we know we have chance of being slayed by them for "being real".

That is the biggest sin in this place if you ask me.

just_for_fun Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 3:54pm
post #12 of 62

Of course, you have to be less sensitive when reading things as opposed to talking to someone, and realize that most ppl are not trying to hurt you, just to help you. I'm just talking about the ppl that are not being helpful, just throw out nasty comments that are uncalled for. I tend not to get insulted, but sometimes when I read some posts, i just wonder where did that come from?

dailey Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 6:16pm
post #13 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Sweetheart-

... but its things like, in one forum, an OP was frustrated, and a replier said "If it makes you so upset, then maybe your should find a new hobby"

Explain to me why things like that need to be said?



it's common sense advice -- stating the obvious almost.

may not be what anyone wants to here, but it is the truth.

if it isn't working -- then stop doing it.
if it's driving you batty -- then stop doing it.
your sanity/happiness is not worth the angst.

it was not a rude comment, merely the straight forward, unvarnished, no sugar coating truth.


----

which leads to my pet peeve -- the need to stroke egos and sugar coat every piece of advice or comment.




totally agree...especially the part about stroking/sugar coating.

sadsmile Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 6:46pm
post #14 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by dailey


totally agree...especially the part about stroking/sugar coating.




Oh that just sounds so wrong tapedshut.gif but so sweet. icon_wink.gif

AverageMom Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 6:58pm
post #15 of 62

Mike, Doug, and Jamie:

Your brutal honesty (with a good dose of humour) is what keeps me coming back here!
I agree...there is no need to be rude, but sometimes an honest answer is needed. On the same vein, I disagree with giving every child on the team a ribbon, I despise the comments I am forced to put on report cards, and I think that parents who make sure every detail of their children's life is "fair" (same number of Christmas gifts, a gift on your sibling birthday, etc) should be given the same paycheque as the lowest paid employee in the office. To be fair, you know.

indydebi Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 7:16pm
post #16 of 62

"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Good advice .... on the surface. (Personally, I like the variation of "If you can't say anything nice .... sit next to me!" icon_lol.gif )

As many times as I see this phrase posted on here (and ironically, did the OP choose to "be rude" to some CC'ers by pointing out how rude they were, instead of "saying nothing"?), it seems to me that those who post this phrase seem to think it's NEVER practiced.

You've no idea how many times I've practiced this phrase when reading threads and especially looking at photos. I know, I know, some of you find it hard to believe, and that's ok with me. icon_rolleyes.gif But since one can't really "see" when this is practiced, I would hope it's not being implied, "If you can't say anything nice, say something nice anyway, no matter how fake-n-phony it is." icon_rolleyes.gif

Do the cakers on here want to learn and grow in their craft? Or do they want to be treated like the kids who missed all of the math problems and got an A because we dont' want to "damage their self-esteem"?

Yes, there is a difference between rude and critique, but I also agree with the above that more than once I've also shook my head in wonderment when a thread was closed or someone got their knickers in a knot, and I'm sitting here wondering "what the heck was THAT all about? Where's the part I missed that suddently made this thread horrible?"

Is someone being rude? Or are they disagreeing with another post? Most of the time, I see it as two totally different things.

I'm not familiar with the thread example that was cited, but I would venture to say that if someone sounded SO upset that a CC'er thought, you know ... maybe this just isn't for you, because these kinds of problems are just part of it, then perhaps the advice was very founded. Being quoted out of context, I can't be sure. But this is EXACTLY the kind of advice I've given my children.

My youngest is very talented ... self taught on 4 guitars, on the keyboard, a poet, a writer, a songwriter. And when she was first getting started, she'd get frustrated and throw those hissy fits that 12 and 13 year olds can throw. And I told her to calm it down .... if she found it this frustrating, then she should just give it up, because this is the process that creative people go thru. She was told to tone it down or suck it up. But I wasn't listening to it anymore.

She LEARNED (key word .... LEARNED) to deal with the barriers and problems along the way in a very constructive manner, instead of a whiny, tantrum throwing manner. And she's developed into a very talented kid!

If more kids had moms like me icon_biggrin.gif , we wouldn't have so many adults with childlike problems. icon_wink.gif

To the OP, your advice is not totally unwarrented. The extreme is taken in both direction .... sometimes it's too harsh ... sometimes it's too rainbows and puppies. Sometimes the person needs a shoulder to cry on .. sometimes they need to be told just to suck it up.

I would hate to see this site turn into a site where everyone is suddenly in fear of giving any critique or helpful "real" advice at all because someone MIGHT take it the wrong way or we MIGHT disagree with a rainbow-puppy-dog person. I've learned more in 2 years from this site than I did in 25 years of hands-on decorating. And that would not have been possible without lots of good honest critique and feedback.

PMing the person is an EXCELLENT idea. I am so glad that one CC'er did that with me. I said something in a thread that she felt was out of line. She PM'd me about it. I re=read my post and absolutely saw her point. I apologized profusely, re-phrased what I was trying to say, and we are now best CC buddies.

Just think of the bad feelings she would have harbored had she "not said anything at all", since what she PM'd me could have been construed as "not nice". thumbs_up.gif

LaBellaFlor Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 7:45pm
post #17 of 62

Perception, perception, perception. No matter how some may phrase things, people have preconcieved notions about somebody on here, and they will always take things the wrong way from that person. It's why a few of us tend to skip certain threads and help less. Oh no, we're wrong for that too! Darned if you do, darned if you don't. And for those who now just PM me for help, by all means do so, I will awlays respond. icon_wink.gif

catlharper Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 7:56pm
post #18 of 62

As usual, IndyDebi, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Yup, when honesty is asked for then it should be given unvarnished in the spirit of really helping someone. However...we all need to be mindful of what we say and HOW we say it. It's one thing to say "your piping is horrible" and another to say "you may really want to start working on your piping to improve your technique" and then offer a website or tutorial if we happen to know of one. One is being truthful but harsh, the second is being truthful but helpful ie: yup, you do have a piping problem but you can get better and get help. As for being frustrated and quitting..well, every golf player in the world would quit today if they gave up every time it felt too frustrating...instead they start back over and try again...it's part of the process. Same with caking. I think when we find someone who says that then it would be a kindness to find out why they feel that way and give them the instruction they need to find a way around or thru the frustration. I don't sugarcoat things...wouldn't want people to do it with me, don't do it to others, but I'm also not going to be honest to the point of rudeness. There are ways of being honest and helping and ways of being honest and squashing someone so that they don't even look for help.

I, too, have adult children who have found their way in the world a challenge that I was able to encourage them to confront, learn and grow without letting the frustrations get to them. My husband however grew up with the dictator type father and tends to lean that direction. Instead of "it's time to clean up the toys kids" he's more the "clean up those toys NOW!" kind of person. This is how he was taught to parent and even tho it hasn't worked for any of our kids for 26 years he's still doing the same thing with our 8 yr old and it's not working with him either. He still hasn't learned that it's HOW you say something as much as the result you are trying to get that makes all the difference in the world...and gets better results.

So for the newbies out there...yup, it's going to be frustrating BUT you can learn SOOOOO much from the people on here that it's SO worth asking the questions. Try to formulate your question with a particular solution in mind and not whine about what is going wrong. Ask for the help you need, not whine about what is going wrong. You will definitely find it here!

love,
Cat

wyovol Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:06pm
post #19 of 62

Well, I'm a newbie (both to the board and to caking) but I'm going to just throw this out there.

I don't want all ducks and bunnies and how wonderful my cakes are. I want honest opinions. Yes, I have a lot (a lot!) to learn. I've only posted one cake on the site and while I'm proud of it (first fondant, first stacking, first tier), I know that it is no where close to perfect. I know that I need to work on things. When I've asked for advice, I have received wonderful input.

Personalities definitely come through in written posts. I know what type of advice/comments are going to be made by certain members just from their past comments. That is not a bad thing. But I also think that if you go into a conversation expecting to be insulted you will find a reason to be insulted, if that makes sense. It is all about perception. Maybe I have thick skin, but I'm not going to get worked up about something that is said on the internet. If I don't like the way a conversation is going, I don't open the thread. If a board devolves into petty name calling and such, I just leave. No big deal. There is a lot of Internet out there.

BTW, I love CC and what I have learned in just my short time here. icon_biggrin.gif

indydebi Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:15pm
post #20 of 62

wyovol, sounds like I"m gonna LIKE you! thumbs_up.gif Welcome to CC!

Pinki Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:16pm
post #21 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi



You've no idea how many times I've practiced this phrase when reading threads and especially looking at photos. I know, I know, some of you find it hard to believe, and that's ok with me. icon_rolleyes.gif But since one can't really "see" when this is practiced, I would hope it's not being implied, "If you can't say anything nice, say something nice anyway, no matter how fake-n-phony it is." icon_rolleyes.gif

Do the cakers on here want to learn and grow in their craft? Or do they want to be treated like the kids who missed all of the math problems and got an A because we dont' want to "damage their self-esteem"?

Yes, there is a difference between rude and critique, but I also agree with the above that more than once I've also shook my head in wonderment when a thread was closed or someone got their knickers in a knot, and I'm sitting here wondering "what the heck was THAT all about? Where's the part I missed that suddently made this thread horrible?"

Is someone being rude? Or are they disagreeing with another post? Most of the time, I see it as two totally different things.

To the OP, your advice is not totally unwarrented. The extreme is taken in both direction .... sometimes it's too harsh ... sometimes it's too rainbows and puppies. Sometimes the person needs a shoulder to cry on .. sometimes they need to be told just to suck it up.

I would hate to see this site turn into a site where everyone is suddenly in fear of giving any critique or helpful "real" advice at all because someone MIGHT take it the wrong way or we MIGHT disagree with a rainbow-puppy-dog person. I've learned more in 2 years from this site than I did in 25 years of hands-on decorating. And that would not have been possible without lots of good honest critique and feedback."




I agree with you that constructive feedback is beneficial and that there is a difference between being rude and disaagreeing with another post. The only times I see comments as being rude is when there is an blatant insult to the poster that has nothing to do with their post. Also, there is a huge difference in saying someone 's cake looks like c**p (not that I've seen this) versus saying something like "I see you have trouble with ___ have you thought about trying ___?"

A big part of effective communication is body language and tone of voice. Reading text on a computer can leave a lot of assumptions about what someone is actually trying to communicate. Real advice is important if we really want to improve on our decorating skills. It shouldn't be all rainbows and puppies but there are better ways than others to make a point.

I think your comments were great and I was nodding my head in agreement the whole time I was reading your post! I don't want to see anyone either be afraid to make a comment to someone else in order not to offend anyone. Unfortunatley, I think it is impossible to make everyone happy. When there is this many people on a site someone willl always get offended with something no matter what is done.

Texas_Rose Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:28pm
post #22 of 62

There's a difference between being blunt and honest and being rude, there really is.

Personally, I don't get worked up over things that are said to me online. In the real world it's a whole 'nother story though. Somebody said something to me in real life about a month ago that really hurt and made me angry. And I knew she was drunk when she said it and that it never would have been said when she was sober. But it still really got to me. And that bothered me too...I thought I was too old to get that upset about a comment from a (former) friend.

I think the younger generation takes online communication more seriously, because it's something they've pretty much grown up with. My sister would rather talk online than on the phone because she says she can express herself better through typing...which is the opposite of how most people who are a little older than her feel. She also takes everything said to her online really seriously and has been known to cry for days about things that friends have said. So when I see someone getting really worked up about something said here, I kind of figure that maybe they're more my sister's generation and that they take it all as seriously as she does.

indydebi Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 8:35pm
post #23 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Rose

..... I kind of figure that maybe they're more my sister's generation and that they take it all as seriously as she does.


I think we tend to take things differently as we mature and get older. I know I can see that I dont' near as worked up as I did when I was younger ... because over the years I've learned how to distinguish what was REALLY meant and whether it's really worth getting worked up or not. So I'm not sure if it's because it's typed or not as much as it is that she (they) are still young. They haven't totally outgrown the "little kid" in them who burst into tears when someone called them a "nooty-gooty" on the playground. icon_smile.gif

Deb_ Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 9:37pm
post #24 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Rose

..... I kind of figure that maybe they're more my sister's generation and that they take it all as seriously as she does.

I think we tend to take things differently as we mature and get older. I know I can see that I dont' near as worked up as I did when I was younger ... because over the years I've learned how to distinguish what was REALLY meant and whether it's really worth getting worked up or not. So I'm not sure if it's because it's typed or not as much as it is that she (they) are still young. They haven't totally outgrown the "little kid" in them who burst into tears when someone called them a "nooty-gooty" on the playground. icon_smile.gif




You gals said exactly what I was thinking. I agree that the younger generation who have grown up in this technological age are super sensitive to what they read on-line.

Now us old gals who were raised with 2 paper cups with a string connecting them......we have much thicker skin. icon_biggrin.gif


This is what I tell my kids....if they think every person they come in contact with in life will pat them on the head and feed their ego with a bunch of bull, then they're going to be very disappointed.

Oh and Averagemom......I completely agree with you about "every kid deserves a ribbon".

When I was growing up the winner got a trophy not every person that participated. Nowadays even if you finish 140th you get a trophy.....ridiculous! This generation is in for a rude awakening when they grow up. What ever happened to "trying your best" and strive for that trophy? icon_rolleyes.gif

Loucinda Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 9:53pm
post #25 of 62
Quote:
Quote:

As usual, IndyDebi, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Yup, when honesty is asked for then it should be given unvarnished in the spirit of really helping someone. However...we all need to be mindful of what we say and HOW we say it. It's one thing to say "your piping is horrible" and another to say "you may really want to start working on your piping to improve your technique" and then offer a website or tutorial if we happen to know of one. One is being truthful but harsh, the second is being truthful but helpful ie: yup, you do have a piping problem but you can get better and get help. As for being frustrated and quitting..well, every golf player in the world would quit today if they gave up every time it felt too frustrating...instead they start back over and try again...it's part of the process. Same with caking. I think when we find someone who says that then it would be a kindness to find out why they feel that way and give them the instruction they need to find a way around or thru the frustration. I don't sugarcoat things...wouldn't want people to do it with me, don't do it to others, but I'm also not going to be honest to the point of rudeness. There are ways of being honest and helping and ways of being honest and squashing someone so that they don't even look for help.

I, too, have adult children who have found their way in the world a challenge that I was able to encourage them to confront, learn and grow without letting the frustrations get to them. My husband however grew up with the dictator type father and tends to lean that direction. Instead of "it's time to clean up the toys kids" he's more the "clean up those toys NOW!" kind of person. This is how he was taught to parent and even tho it hasn't worked for any of our kids for 26 years he's still doing the same thing with our 8 yr old and it's not working with him either. He still hasn't learned that it's HOW you say something as much as the result you are trying to get that makes all the difference in the world...and gets better results.

So for the newbies out there...yup, it's going to be frustrating BUT you can learn SOOOOO much from the people on here that it's SO worth asking the questions. Try to formulate your question with a particular solution in mind and not whine about what is going wrong. Ask for the help you need, not whine about what is going wrong. You will definitely find it here!

love,
Cat




Cat - your post makes perfect sense......and I agree with you 110%.

ApplegumKitchen Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 10:26pm
post #26 of 62

NSW schools are now introducing programs to teach kids 'RESILIENCE' - it appears all this attention to 'self esteem' and insisting on every body playing NICE has just created a much bigger problem - kids have to learn to "suck it up" (as Debi says icon_biggrin.gif ) or basically learn how NOT to take everything to heart and SO seriously.

The thing is .... you can't change what other people are going to say or HOW they are going to say it.... BUT .... YOU can change how YOU react to it!

julia77 Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 10:52pm
post #27 of 62

If people WROTE/RESPONDED the way that they would respond FACE TO FACE...I think there would be a lot less problems. Wouldn't solve everything, of course, as some people are blunt by nature and others get offended easily, however I am sure many speak with "internet courage" in a manner that they would not do so in person.

indydebi Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 11:14pm
post #28 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by julia77

If people WROTE/RESPONDED the way that they would respond FACE TO FACE...I think there would be a lot less problems. Wouldn't solve everything, of course, as some people are blunt by nature and others get offended easily, however I am sure many speak with "internet courage" in a manner that they would not do so in person.



I think you are right. So many "Kids today" (said the old lady!) don't have any social skills because they interact anonymously behind a keyboard.

Tho' I wish to assure everyone (and everyone who has met me, can back me up, here) that I'm a WYSIWYG gal! (who's old enough to remember that term?)

WYSIWYG = What you see is what you get, and that'show it is with me. Yes, I really DO talk the way I write. icon_razz.gif I detest fake-n-phony and you wont' catch me doing it. thumbs_up.gif

costumeczar Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 11:47pm
post #29 of 62

For the responders, think about it before you hit "send."

For the people who are offended by responses, remember that if you put it on the internet people will react to it and you can't control how they will respond. Don't ask a question if you don't want to get a bunch of answers tht you may or may not like.

Oh, I have stopped and deleted what I've written soooo many times. I'm not into the hand-holding, kumbayah-singing love and rainbows all the time, but I try not to get nasty. I'm sure that I've written things that offended someone, but nobody has control over how other people will react to their posts.

If you know that someone's posts rub you the wrong way all the time (and I'm sure we all have one or two we could name who annoy us for some reason, and the list is probably different for everyone) then remind yourself that that person is to be taken with a grain of salt. Then go sample some of that liquer you use to flavor the buttercream, that usually helps, too.

ApplegumKitchen Posted 31 Dec 2009 , 11:53pm
post #30 of 62

Put my hand up for that group too Debi - although WE call it "WYSIWYG" and others will call it BLUNT.... see thats our first problem

Some people just don't cope well with "open frank communication"

Love ya Debi and so glad to have a strong voice of reason around here!! thumbs_up.gif

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