Kosher Wedding Cake

Decorating By Cher2309b Updated 2 Jul 2009 , 11:53am by Cher2309b

Cher2309b Posted 21 Jun 2009 , 11:02pm
post #1 of 33

My friend (mother of the bride) has asked me to help her make (my first) wedding cake. We have 7 weeks. Must be made in Yeshiva kitchen in Sydney, under supervision. Must be pareve. Im an amateur decorator but cannot use any of my equipment or usual ingredients. Therefore needs to be simple.
Thinking stacked cakes maybe chocolate mud and, perhaps, orange and poppyseed.
What fillings and icing???
Would ganache work with non-dairy cream? How would it taste?
I dont think buttercream with pareve margarine would taste nice; has anyone tried this?
Royal icing would look good (iced with rough texture) but wouldnt it be too hard?
My friend grows orchids (not sprayed) and we were thinking of decorating with these. Would we also need filler flowers? What can we use? (Its winter here.)
Now, how to transport it to venue?
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Best wishes to all CCers. With thanks,
Cheryl

32 replies
artscallion Posted 21 Jun 2009 , 11:14pm
post #2 of 33

Some of our UK posters might be able to help with this. Based on Toba Garrett's book, "The Well Decorated Cake," A typical cake in England is first covered in marzipan or almond paste, and then covered with a very smooth finish of royal icing. No butter cream or fondant. They're then decorated in various ways. This seems to be something that would be easier to adapt to kosher.

mclaren Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 9:00am
post #3 of 33

may i know why would dairy cream not be kosher? cream comes from milk from the cows, right, and cows are kosher animals, right?

leahk Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 10:24am
post #4 of 33

mclaren- Yes there are kosher dairy creams available, but depending on the level of supervision required, there may not be a full range. The issue with the wedding is that it will be a meat meal, and therefore a dairy dessert may not be served.

I have done buttercreams with margarine, while they aren't the best tasting, some of them are passable. I have found that using a bit of popcorn salt really makes a BIG difference in cutting down on sweetness. Unless you have hi-ratio shortening available to you, stick with the classic american buttercreams.

Ganche works beautifully using bittersweet chocolate and non-dairy whipped topping (unwhipped). I haven't been quite as successful using pareve white chocolate.

Do you have fondant with certification available to you? If so, then I would say cover with ganache and then fondant. You can also make decorations out of the fondant, possible making gumpaste by adding Tylose powder.

I have no idea what your kosher background is, so I am pointing out some issues that you may or may not know about.
I would ask the mashgiach (kosher supervisor) about kashering your tips. Since they are entirely metal, it shouldn't be a big deal. Then you could use disposable bags and maybe just get a new coupler or 2- those are always handy to have around. You may have to use new spatulas due to the wooden or plastic handle- I'm not sure exactly. Make sure you speak to the mashgiach about all new stuff you buy, it may have to be toveled (dipped in a mikva) before being used.

Hope this helps- you can PM me with any questions
Good luck!

ahuvas Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:12am
post #5 of 33

Cher

One thing I have to say about kosher cake decorating in Australia is that the expectations are probably a little different than you might be used to. That is to say that people here are much more used to more traditional cakes from the bakery and not gourmet cakes with a long lists of different flavours.

I have made a chocolate ganache tart with berries. You would not be able to use dairy cream because the wedding meal would probably be meat based but we have Rich's Whip Topping which can be used in it's place. Hadar also makes a similar product. You might also called the Sydney Kosher Authority because some products are available to caterers etc that isnt listed in the local consumer 'kosher" list - they can also tell you where to buy it in bulk instead of the 16 ounce containers. non-dairy white chocolate looks like white chocolate but really isn't anything like it.

You can make a fruit based filling i.e. from fresh strawberries boiled with sugar and thickened with cornstarch. Also something like black forest cake filling with kirsch and cherries inside chocolate cake would also be very tasty.

I make American-style buttercream with margarine but since I never really eat butter I find American buttercream with real butter overpowering flavor-wise. However margarine works well in all the cakes I have made so far.

You can buy kosher fondant in Australia but its very expensive since it's imported - MMF is a good alternative but also expensive to make with kosher marshmallows - it depends on their budget.

Your baking pans can probably be "kashered" by the kosher authority as long as they are cleaned thoroughly but pots with plastic handles, knifes etc will probably not be able to. The yeshivah kitchen may already have a lot of these things already. The other alternative is to buy cheap throw away things from a party store like spatulas, cake boards, and even disposable pans.

Another thought is that you get the local bakery to bake uniced cakes for you so you dont have to worry about it and concentrate on doing the icings and decorations?

Cher2309b Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:18am
post #6 of 33

Thank you very much for replies to date.
Thank you Leahk for answering McLaren's query; exactly, since there will be a meat meal served then no dairy products can be used.

I will experiment with a bittersweet chocolate ganache, using a non-dairy (un)whipped topping; thanks for the warning about the white chocolate as that was something I had in mind.

I don't think we have kosher fondant in Australia and I'm not too keen on experimenting with making my own under supervision using kosher "gelatine"; I'm already feeling pretty uneasy about working in a foreign kitchen under supervision; it's so nice to potter around your own kitchen and unselfconsciously throw away your mistakes. I'll probably give the buttercream a miss too. (Popcorn salt is another ingredient I have never come across in Australia; we must be more isolated than I thought.)

I'll be seeing my friend tomorrow; so any other ideas would be very welcome. I think we should check out the kitchen and equipment and, yes, it would be a good idea to have a chat with the mashgiach.

Thanks so much. Regards,
Cheryl

Cher2309b Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:32am
post #7 of 33

Thank you Ahuvas for your detailed reply; you've given me lots of information to think about and discuss with my friend, I think your cake fillings sound like a great idea.

I sometimes buy a non-dairy cream at Starks - just around the corner at Bondi; so I'll have a practice round with the ganache. Maybe I'll try out a (margerine) butter cream as well.

All the best,
Cheryl

ahuvas Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 11:37am
post #8 of 33

Wow I was just looking at suppliers of kosher imported fondant in Australia and found that the new zealand kosher authority has now certified Bakels Pettinice as Kosher http://kosherkiwidirectory.co.nz/kosher09.pdf --> i do not know if this is true for Australia too but it would solve your problem (and be amazing for me icon_smile.gif!) if this was true. I will investigate this tomorrow. I can finally stop making my own icon_smile.gif

leahk Posted 22 Jun 2009 , 12:31pm
post #9 of 33

I have found the big drawback to making my own fondant is pliability. I can't get kosher glycerin in my area, and it is definitely missing. I have finally been able to track down pre-made, decent tasting fondant.
As for the popcorn salt- it is just finely ground salt. So either grind it on your own, or check out the different brands until you find one finely ground. There is a brand of sea salt I can get that is fine enough.
Good luck!

ahuvas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:01am
post #10 of 33

Just wondering how it turned out? What did you decide on?

ahuvas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:02am
post #11 of 33

Just wondering how it turned out? What did you decide on?

ahuvas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:03am
post #12 of 33

Just wondering how it turned out? What did you decide on?

ahuvas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:04am
post #13 of 33

Just wondering how it turned out? What did you decide on?

chanielisalevy Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:37am
post #14 of 33

leahk, I don't know which hoshgochos you use but Wilton is manchester Beis Din and Satin Ice is under the OK (which where I live gets repackaged under supervision for the New Square Beis Din and renamed Baker's choice) and also the brand from creatice cutters is under the COR from Canada ) so you can try the taste of those 3 and see if you like them better than homemade.,

chanielisalevy Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:38am
post #15 of 33

leahk, I don't know which hoshgochos you use but Wilton is manchester Beis Din and Satin Ice is under the OK (which where I live gets repackaged under supervision for the New Square Beis Din and renamed Baker's choice) and also the brand from creatice cutters is under the COR from Canada ) so you can try the taste of those 3 and see if you like them better than homemade.,

chanielisalevy Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:39am
post #16 of 33

leahk, I don't know which hoshgochos you use but Wilton is manchester Beis Din and Satin Ice is under the OK (which where I live gets repackaged under supervision for the New Square Beis Din and renamed Baker's choice) and also the brand from creatice cutters is under the COR from Canada ) so you can try the taste of those 3 and see if you like them better than homemade.,

iloveyanni Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:59am
post #17 of 33

you may want to look for vegan recipes, too, because those would not include dairy products. i just made a vegan cake for a neighbor friend, and i have to say that i LOVED the recipe for the chocolate cake. i made buttercream frosting, except used a vegetable shortening (no dairy or animal fat), powdered sugar, soy milk (you could use water), and Hershey's cocoa powder. In all honesty, it was a bit clumpy, but I'm sure you could just whip it longer to get the chunks of shortening to disappear. Here is the recipe for the chocolate cake:

1C vegan chocolate chips
1 1/2 C unbleached flour
3/4 C sugar or other sweetener
1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp. baking soda
3 Tablespoons cocoa powder
1 tsp. vanilla
1/2 vegetable oil
1 Tablespoon vinegar
1C cold water

Good luck!

iloveyanni Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 1:59am
post #18 of 33

you may want to look for vegan recipes, too, because those would not include dairy products. i just made a vegan cake for a neighbor friend, and i have to say that i LOVED the recipe for the chocolate cake. i made buttercream frosting, except used a vegetable shortening (no dairy or animal fat), powdered sugar, soy milk (you could use water), and Hershey's cocoa powder. In all honesty, it was a bit clumpy, but I'm sure you could just whip it longer to get the chunks of shortening to disappear. Here is the recipe for the chocolate cake:

1C vegan chocolate chips
1 1/2 C unbleached flour
3/4 C sugar or other sweetener
1/2 tsp salt
1 tsp. baking soda
3 Tablespoons cocoa powder
1 tsp. vanilla
1/2 vegetable oil
1 Tablespoon vinegar
1C cold water

Good luck!

paolacaracas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 2:04am
post #19 of 33

Here in Venezuela we don't have pre maid fondant, I make my own, and I use the kosher gelatin, and we do have certify glycerin.
You can practice one batch at home and don't use it for the cake, just to get it right, so when you are at the yeshiva you already know how to make it.
I use Migdal margarine, instead of butter, of course it's not as good as butter but it will give you a very good result. I usually do chocolate cake, as my recipe has no milk anyway.
A ganache made with non-dairy milk is the best choice for filling, and covering, and then the fondant on top.
I was also curious if you are going to use all the tools from the yeshivah kitchen or you have to get your own and bring them t the mikbeh.
I never heard of any flower being non kosher.
I'll be happy to help with any question, but remember the last word it's always from the mashgiah

paolacaracas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 2:05am
post #20 of 33

Here in Venezuela we don't have pre maid fondant, I make my own, and I use the kosher gelatin, and we do have certify glycerin.
You can practice one batch at home and don't use it for the cake, just to get it right, so when you are at the yeshiva you already know how to make it.
I use Migdal margarine, instead of butter, of course it's not as good as butter but it will give you a very good result. I usually do chocolate cake, as my recipe has no milk anyway.
A ganache made with non-dairy milk is the best choice for filling, and covering, and then the fondant on top.
I was also curious if you are going to use all the tools from the yeshivah kitchen or you have to get your own and bring them t the mikbeh.
I never heard of any flower being non kosher.
I'll be happy to help with any question, but remember the last word it's always from the mashgiah

paolacaracas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 2:06am
post #21 of 33

Here in Venezuela we don't have pre maid fondant, I make my own, and I use the kosher gelatin, and we do have certify glycerin.
You can practice one batch at home and don't use it for the cake, just to get it right, so when you are at the yeshiva you already know how to make it.
I use Migdal margarine, instead of butter, of course it's not as good as butter but it will give you a very good result. I usually do chocolate cake, as my recipe has no milk anyway.
A ganache made with non-dairy milk is the best choice for filling, and covering, and then the fondant on top.
I was also curious if you are going to use all the tools from the yeshivah kitchen or you have to get your own and bring them t the mikbeh.
I never heard of any flower being non kosher.
I'll be happy to help with any question, but remember the last word it's always from the mashgiah

paolacaracas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 2:07am
post #22 of 33

Here in Venezuela we don't have pre maid fondant, I make my own, and I use the kosher gelatin, and we do have certify glycerin.
You can practice one batch at home and don't use it for the cake, just to get it right, so when you are at the yeshiva you already know how to make it.
I use Migdal margarine, instead of butter, of course it's not as good as butter but it will give you a very good result. I usually do chocolate cake, as my recipe has no milk anyway.
A ganache made with non-dairy milk is the best choice for filling, and covering, and then the fondant on top.
I was also curious if you are going to use all the tools from the yeshivah kitchen or you have to get your own and bring them t the mikbeh.
I never heard of any flower being non kosher.
I'll be happy to help with any question, but remember the last word it's always from the mashgiah

leahk Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 6:06am
post #23 of 33

Chanielisalevy- I don't live in the States. When I was there a year ago I bought Tylose, which was very helpful.
People here are very makpid about hasgachos, and not everyone will use the "American" ones. So I do the best I can. Now that I can get fondant, it is MUCH easier.
My big issue is food coloring. I have basically learned to make do with powdered, but it gets complicated at times.

leahk Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 6:07am
post #24 of 33

Chanielisalevy- I don't live in the States. When I was there a year ago I bought Tylose, which was very helpful.
People here are very makpid about hasgachos, and not everyone will use the "American" ones. So I do the best I can. Now that I can get fondant, it is MUCH easier.
My big issue is food coloring. I have basically learned to make do with powdered, but it gets complicated at times.

sara91 Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 6:39am
post #25 of 33

Wilton food colouring is kosher and available widely in Australia from most cake decorating shops. I do believe but you will have to check, Bakels fondant is kosher. This is the most popular icing here, very pliable.

sara91 Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 6:40am
post #26 of 33

Wilton food colouring is kosher and available widely in Australia from most cake decorating shops. I do believe but you will have to check, Bakels fondant is kosher. This is the most popular icing here, very pliable.

ahuvas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 7:38am
post #27 of 33

Okay I checked with Kosher Australia - Bakels Fondant manufactured in Australia does not have a hechsher but the one from NZ does.

slush Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 9:42am
post #28 of 33

I didn't know you could get wilton ready made fondant with a manchester beis din hechsher. I'm in manchester and I've never seen it here. maybe they only do it for the US.
You can get here RegalIce with a manchester hechsher and all the sugarflair colours and dusts having a london kdassia hechsher.
I got cmc from a shop in jerusalem(with a bedatz hechsher) to add to the fondant to make gumpaste. You can buy a huge amount for not much money.
My Rav said however that it is a product that doesn't really need a hechsher. I think its the same as tylose
I've been having trouble finding silver/gold or pearlised sugar balls with a hechsher.
Does anyone know where you can get them?
Thanks
and good luck with the wedding cake!

ahuvas Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 11:46am
post #29 of 33

Slush - this is what the Melbourne Kosher Authority told me regarding tylose when I called. I was surprised. I thought this applied to things such as whole milk and white sugar - I am not sure why though - I just thought he misunderstood what I was asking him about.

Cher2309b Posted 1 Jul 2009 , 12:15pm
post #30 of 33

Wow! I'm amazed at all the responses to my queries; thank you so much everyone.
I spent a day with my friend although it was mostly focused on trying to find a mother-of-the bride outfit.
So, where are we up to with the cake?
Certainly chocolate cake (perhaps mud or perhaps hazelnut). We're thinking chocolate ganache filling and icing. Thinking about another flavour, possibly orange and poppyseed with an orange "butter" cream filling. Our concern here is that we would need to have the same covering on the whole cake and chocolate ganache probably wouldn't go.
The bride's not too keen on fondant, which solves all the kashruth concerns there.

My friend is going to speak to the Rabbi initially (and perhaps the mashgiach) about all the little details like whether they can kosher our tins, whether we buy kosher ingredients or give them a list and whether we can provide cake boards, skewers, etc. She's also arranging for us to visit the Yechivah kitchen to check out their equipment.

The actual transportation of the cake is solved as the caterer has agreed to do this; that's a relief.

We will certainly try out recipes at home using kosher ingredients.

I'll keep you posted as things progress; the wedding is on 9th August.
Thanks again for your help. All the best,
Cheryl

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