A Serious & Rational Discussion About Pricing
Business By DeliciousDesserts Updated 10 Oct 2013 , 11:30pm by SystemMod1
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For discussions sake...can we just put random pictures of cakes up and say what we would charge? Or do they need to be our own work? I think that as discussions progress maybe we could add cakes with increasing elements to it.
I may be thinking too long term lol
For the pricing to mean anything - of course they need to be our own work - how else would you know exactly what you are pricing?
The whole look at a picture and think you know how to price get way out of hand - whose picture are you going to use? somebody that may have charged $2,000 and everybody thinks they can do it for $300
I think we went down that path before with the hot pink and black number in a similar post where a pic was uploaded and people were asked to put a figure on it
AI guess I was just thinking in terms of like...how people give you practice problems. But yeah I see what you mean
I could give you practice 'quotes' morganchampagne - but it would be more from a sketch than an actual photo - and it would have to have specifics with cake sizes/heights - filling - covering etc
I just object to the whole grabbing a photo off Google and then people putting THEIR price on it - I don't even do cakes like that
I'd like to participate in this discussion, because I need to. I clearly need help with this topic because I can't get people to pay prices like everyone else around here does. I would price this first cake at $4.00 per serving x 104 servings= $416.00. Having written that, I would never get the cake order. If it was for a wedding, maybe they would pay $416. but if it's a celebration cake I couldn't get $200. for it.
I know my costs and over head, but it has nothing to do with my pricing. If I priced similarly to others here I wouldn't ever get a cake order. Having written that, maybe I don't get decent orders is because I'm selling to the wrong people....or the right people don't know I exist.
AStitches,
Would you not get the order because there's too many people around you doing it cheaper? Or are you still trying to find the reason for why people don't respond well to the prices?
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I'd like to participate in this discussion, because I need to. I clearly need help with this topic because I can't get people to pay prices like everyone else around here does. I would price this first cake at $4.00 per serving x 104 servings= $416.00. Having written that, I would never get the cake order. If it was for a wedding, maybe they would pay $416. but if it's a celebration cake I couldn't get $200. for it.
I know my costs and over head, but it has nothing to do with my pricing. If I priced similarly to others here I wouldn't ever get a cake order. Having written that, maybe I don't get decent orders is because I'm selling to the wrong people....or the right people don't know I exist.
You only have to say no to $200 a few times - before anybody else can believe your cakes are worth the money ..... YOU have to believe they are!!
I ask all of you who ARE prepared to sell a cake for half what ti is worth ..... just because people won't pay it..... WOULD you go to work for an employer for a month but ACCEPT only being paid 1 week out of every 4???
If you can't get what the cake IS worth - STOP selling..... get a job - sit in the garden with a glass of wine - honestly .... cake decorating is NOT meant to be 'working in the salt mines' - I know ... you are all going to say.... I LOVE it ..... well - find something else you LOVE that will pay the bills
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Stitches,
Would you not get the order because there's too many people around you doing it cheaper? Or are you still trying to find the reason for why people don't respond well to the prices?
Both.
There are a couple small bakeries in the area that aren't good and seem close to going out of business. Plus several housewife's under pricing the retail bakeries. Plus every big box store and grocery store you can think of, in close proximity.
"Or are you still trying to find the reason for why people don't respond well to the prices?" They don't value the skill involved, and aren't foodies enough to care if something tastes good or not.
A
Original message sent by Stitches
I know my costs and over head, but it has nothing to do with my pricing. If I priced similarly to others here I wouldn't ever get a cake order. Having written that, maybe I don't get decent orders is because I'm selling to the wrong people....or the right people don't know I exist.
I recommend talking to a marketing professional to design a custom advertising strategy for your business. If you've tried to do it on your own without making headway, the investment in a business consultant should be well worth it.
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If you can't get what the cake IS worth - STOP selling..... get a job - sit in the garden with a glass of wine - honestly .... cake decorating is NOT meant to be 'working in the salt mines' - I know ... you are all going to say.... I LOVE it ..... well - find something else you LOVE that will pay the bills
Well that cuts deep for me, personally. But I get your intentions.
I've been a professional employed second generation pastry chef for 25* years. I am an excellent baker, with-out any self-doubt. I've worked at some awesome fine dining clubs. I'm just an average decorator and I don't do this because I LOVE decorating and want to give people price breaks on cakes! I work fast and smart, I'm very skilled, I have an award winning fine art background and education I could become a better decorator if I had clients that would pay my time to do it..
BUT, I've only been doing this on my own for a year. I don't advertise (I did google ads for a month and need to re-start it), I don't have a store front or open kitchen.... I don't have a lot of friends (only a couple close ones), I don't have children so I don't engage with people needing cakes. Sometimes I think my website scares off my average perspective client.....they think I'll be so expensive they are scared to ask me about pricing. Can that be? It's not a great site or great work.........it's just not as cheap and tacky looking as my competitors.
I've definitely got to work harder than most at advertising to get my name out. But what's the point it no one is willing to pay a reasonable price? I NEED to pay bills doing this and I'm not going to find something else to do.
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I know my costs and over head, but it has nothing to do with my pricing. If I priced similarly to others here I wouldn't ever get a cake order. Having written that, maybe I don't get decent orders is because I'm selling to the wrong people....or the right people don't know I exist.
I recommend talking to a marketing professional to design a custom advertising strategy for your business. If you've tried to do it on your own without making headway, the investment in a business consultant should be well worth it.
THAT doesn't always GUARANTEE results - you could just be lining the pockets of somebody with as much knowledge as yourself ..... that happens to be able to spin a good yarn.
It can be a total waste of money
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Original message sent by Stitches
I've definitely got to work harder than most at advertising to get my name out. But what's the point it no one is willing to pay a reasonable price?
The point is to target a customer base that is willing to pay a reasonable price. If you take care of SEO for your web site and write compelling text ads, even just a couple hundred bucks a month in ad spend can jump-start your business.
A
Original message sent by ApplegumPam
THAT doesn't always GUARANTEE results - you could just be lining the pockets of somebody with as much knowledge as yourself ..... that happens to be able to spin a good yarn.
It can be a total waste of money
Purchasing any product or service can be a waste of money if you don't adequately vet the service providers. If you meet with someone and they don't seem like they can add value, don't work with them.
There is no such thing as a "guarantee" in any case, but if your business is not going anywhere and you don't know how to craft a marketing strategy then it makes sense to look for help.
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If you can't get what the cake IS worth - STOP selling..... get a job - sit in the garden with a glass of wine - honestly .... cake decorating is NOT meant to be 'working in the salt mines' - I know ... you are all going to say.... I LOVE it ..... well - find something else you LOVE that will pay the bills
Well that cuts deep for me, personally. But I get your intentions.
I've been a professional employed second generation pastry chef for 25* years. I am an excellent baker, with-out any self-doubt. I've worked at some awesome fine dining clubs. I'm just an average decorator and I don't do this because I LOVE decorating and want to give people price breaks on cakes! I work fast and smart, I'm very skilled, I have an award winning fine art background and education I could become a better decorator if I had clients that would pay my time to do it..
BUT, I've only been doing this on my own for a year. I don't advertise (I did google ads for a month and need to re-start it), I don't have a store front or open kitchen.... I don't have a lot of friends (only a couple close ones), I don't have children so I don't engage with people needing cakes. Sometimes I think my website scares off my average perspective client.....they think I'll be so expensive they are scared to ask me about pricing. Can that be? It's not a great site or great work.........it's just not as cheap and tacky looking as my competitors.
I've definitely got to work harder than most at advertising to get my name out. But what's the point it no one is willing to pay a reasonable price? I NEED to pay bills doing this and I'm not going to find something else to do.
oh sorry - yes I didn't mean to CUT quite so deep - but realistically it IS true - you SHOULD value what you do - and what you have written above IS what other people need to hear - don't go cheaper - don't go tacky - figure out WHO you do want to sell to and then figure out HOW you are going to get them to notice you.
That is probably TOO simple but without using a whole lot of corporate jargon - but I do think this IS something that you can do for yourself without the need to give money to somebody who CLAIMS they can help you and then you see NO marked difference in sales.
A
Original message sent by ApplegumPam
That is probably TOO simple but without using a whole lot of corporate jargon - but I do think this IS something that you can do for yourself without the need to give money to somebody who CLAIMS they can help you and then you see NO marked difference in sales.
Doing it yourself is certainly a viable alternative, as long as you are willing to devote the time to learning about marketing and advertising. A 30-hour class at a local college would probably be enough to cover the basics.
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Doing it yourself is certainly a viable alternative, as long as you are willing to devote the time to learning about marketing and advertising. A 30-hour class at a local college would probably be enough to cover the basics.
That would be a great topic for a new thread.
To get back on topic, I think it would be great if someone has a very simple cake to show for pricing, as a good starting point. DD's wasn't an extravagent design, but the fillings were costly and fancy-shmancy.
I am on my phone, so no access to pictures, but I am sure someone has a simple tiered, buttercream filled cake?
A[IMG ALT=""]http://cakecentral.com/content/type/61/id/2947063/width/350/height/700[/IMG]
I'll go.
8, 10, 12 - flavors were lemon, chocolate, vanilla, frosting was lemon SMBC, chocolate FBC and vanilla SMBC. Fondant covered and fondant accents, gumpaste topper. Cake was delivered 2 miles away. I also did a 6" smash cake in vanilla with ABC only.
I did this cake for free so I don't have a price to share.
$420.00 plus $25.00 for delivery plus $27.00 for ABC topped smash cake (6" x 4" tall)
I only use ABC so I'm not sure how I'd price SMBC. I do a complimentary smash cake with all 1st birthday cakes but it's just slightly larger than a cupcake. Anything larger than that is priced separately as it would be for any order.
My quote is based on 4" tall tiers but it looks like the tiers in the picture might be 2" or 3"?
If the tiers are each 2" tall then my quote would be:
$215.00 plus $25.00 for delivery plus $15.00 for ABC topped smash cake (6" x 2" tall)
If the tiers are each 3" tall then my quote would be:
$300.00 plus $25.00 for delivery plus $21.00 for ABC topped smash cake (6" x 3" tall)
P.S. I'm just outside of Houston also :) but I'm north, in The Woodlands.
A$675 does. It include tax or delivery.
I offer complimentary smash cakes with purchase of birthday cakes for first birthdays.
AI'd like to make a few or rather acknowledge a few points.
I absolutely agree that some cakes should not leave the kitchen. Yes, everyone starts somewhere....it shouldn't be with selling! I also believe that skill level should play a significant role in pricing. My cakes are visually more appealing than some in town who charge less. They are not in the same category as Mr. Jim Smeal who charges more.
Chances are that Charleston Weddings magazine cake would not get ordered unless it was for a wedding. I'm sure it doesn't seem it, but I too have people unwilling to pay my prices. Just yesterday quoted $100 for twin birthday cakes. Two 6" cakes very detailed. Absolutely worth $100. Client can't/won't spend that. Just wanted to reassure everyone tho sin just a newbie frustration.
This is why it is so important to know my target audience. My client is someone with both the ability & the desire to pay my prices. I'm lucky to live in a city where this is possible.
If I lived in an area where the market wouldn't bare my prices, all the advertising & SEO wouldn't matter at all. Still wouldn't have clients. Must research your area!
AThe tiers were supposed to be 4in but I was trying out recipes!
I'm not sure the cake as is was sell-worthy, it needed to be a little more polished. I've certainly seen worse though.
base price for fondant cake + upcharge for the topper--
i think it's a very nice cake, kiki n kyle--
and all that to say i think we certainly can offer ranges of prices for different 'levels' of cakes when we are asked--
if it's upscale ingredients/location then it's on the higher end likewise if it's done by someone with a fantastic following --
but globally i'd say between at least $4 and $8 or more is a great estimate (what's so everlasting difficult about that)--
imo base prices fluctuate that much across the board--
and simply put that is what we can kindly advise peeps who want to know when they ask and point them to how to arrive at that conclusion as this thread is doing--
but just tell them--
(seinfeld, a tv show, had an episode where kramer became the 'automated' answer voice for the movie theater--but he answered the calls live and pretended he was the recorded message asking the caller to press different buttons for different selections but when he could not distinguish the different ring tones -- he got all flustered and said in his 'automated' message voice, "why don't you just tell me the name of the movie" which became a catch phrase in our house ;) --
why don't you we just tell them the name of the movie price range of the cake?
no we can't tell them what their price should be but we can use our heads and advise i think--it's a teaching opportunity--let's roll with it
in general when we are asked i mean--
just my opinion--
edited to clarify some bits --
My price would be $600 ($590 for the cake and $10 for the topper) plus $25 for a very simple smash cake.
Delivery $10
AHere's an idea:
For the first maybe 6 months of my business, I didn't do designed cakes like you see here. I did a lot of kitchen cakes. Plainly iced cakes for people's dinner, and I had a lot of office birthday cake/cupcakes. I didn't attempt to sell a tiered cake until I had leveling, smooth icing, and proper doweling done.
Just a suggestion.
I don't have my recipe costing sheet with me to give the super exact price down to the cent, but for that cake I would be somewhere between 540-550. Not including delivery. And i would insist on delivery unless the person lived a maximum of 5 minutes away
If this thread is going to be different than other similar threads if needs to stay educational. It seems to me that people need to break out the reasons for their costs better. Just saying a $--- number doesn't explain how you determined that. NO?
So I'll try to do what I think you want done:
Using Earlenes serving chart the last cake is 90 servings, plus the smash cake.
Using Wiltons chart it's 88 servings, plus the smash cake.
I charge $4.00 per serving for an all fondant cake. 4 x 90 = $360.
I don't do free smash cakes, 6" cake is 8 servings x $4.00 = $32.00
I include free delivery to locals = $0.00
I would not charge extra for that specific fondant topper = $0.00
I would also no charge extra for those specific cake flavors = $0.00
Total = $392.00
That was a nice breakdown of the cost.
KikiandKyle, that was a very cute cake. It was NOT a wreck. I would absolutely see that being sold.
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If I lived in an area where the market wouldn't bare my prices, all the advertising & SEO wouldn't matter at all. Still wouldn't have clients. Must research your area!
Surely you must see how that isn't realistic. Do you want people who live in less affluent areas not to sell cakes? Or should they just go to a money tree and pick enough money so they can move to a more wealthy community that will pay respectable prices? Better yet, they should change professions and go back to practicing medicine......since it's so easy to go find another well paying job.
I'm not directing this directly to the person I've quoted above....... It's like the republicans verses the democrats here at CC we can't find any middle ground with each other. Why is it all or nothing?
I don't know that it was being said you have to live in the area you are advertising to? You have to learn your market and make sure your advertising is going to the area that can afford your prices. Does that make sense?
I don't know that it was being said you have to live in the area you are advertising to? You have to learn your market and make sure your advertising is going to the area that can afford your prices. Does that make sense?
Yes, that makes perfect sense. But it's not realistic. Wealthy people/people with extra income to buy extravagant things don't typically go slum shopping. They shop where they live, just like everyone else.
Actually, they tend to be even more discriminating about their purchases than average income people.
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