Box Mix Or Scratch For Start Up Small Business

Baking By Red Riding Hood Updated 1 Aug 2013 , 3:38am by j92383

ttaunt Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 8:44pm
post #31 of 113

Im kinda new,so what is WASC?

BatterUpCake Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 8:54pm
post #32 of 113

White Almond Sour Cream http://www.food.com/recipe/white-almond-sour-cream-wedding-cake-69630 You can make it different flavors using flavored box mixes, various extracts, flavoring oils, flavored coffee creamers, liqeuers, soda, you name it

carmijok Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 9:45pm
post #33 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katya1956 

Everyone can bake from a box. If you call yourself professional, and charge for it as a professional, you have to be different. You should be aiming to do things other people can't. How can you can justify the difference in the price between the store bought cakes and cupcakes and yours? We all know they make theirs using cake mixes. The only difference is they by their mixes in bags, not boxes. We all know box mixes contain chemicals. Start educating your customers on the difference between boxed and scratch. Once they taste well made cake from scratch, they will never go back. Don't make it easy for you, make it right for your customers.


To say that 'everyone can bake from a box' is very naive.  I know people that can burn water!   The bakery I worked for used a box cake for their go-to french vanilla cake.  It was their most requested cake and the one used for just about all their wedding cakes.  They also did recipes from scratch.  You have to use what works for you. 

 

I too use a mix of box and scratch recipes.  And it's not so much a matter of making something 'easy'  as it is a matter of consistency.  If someone asks if I use boxed mixes I always say I use the recipe that works best for whatever particular cake I need. 

 

The goal of a professional is not to show how 'different' you are...it's to provide something delicious (and beautiful) that people want to come back for.   Whether that's provided through a scratch cake or its boxed counterpart is really up to your customers!

Annabakescakes Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 9:48pm
post #34 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmijok 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katya1956 

Everyone can bake from a box. If you call yourself professional, and charge for it as a professional, you have to be different. You should be aiming to do things other people can't. How can you can justify the difference in the price between the store bought cakes and cupcakes and yours? We all know they make theirs using cake mixes. The only difference is they by their mixes in bags, not boxes. We all know box mixes contain chemicals. Start educating your customers on the difference between boxed and scratch. Once they taste well made cake from scratch, they will never go back. Don't make it easy for you, make it right for your customers.


To say that 'everyone can bake from a box' is very naive.  I know people that can burn water!   The bakery I worked for used a box cake for their go-to french vanilla cake.  It was their most requested cake and the one used for just about all their wedding cakes.  They also did recipes from scratch.  You have to use what works for you. 

 

I too use a mix of box and scratch recipes.  And it's not so much a matter of making something 'easy'  as it is a matter of consistency.  If someone asks if I use boxed mixes I always say I use the recipe that works best for whatever particular cake I need. 

 

The goal of a professional is not to show how 'different' you are...it's to provide something delicious (and beautiful) that people want to come back for.   Whether that's provided through a scratch cake or its boxed counterpart is really up to your customers!

Yeah, that's what hair, piercings or tattoos are for ;-) 

jason_kraft Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 9:54pm
post #35 of 113

A

Original message sent by carmijok

To say that 'everyone can bake from a box' is very naive.  I know people that can burn water!

This is an approximate visual representation of what happens when I attempt to cook or bake:


ttaunt Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 10:22pm
post #36 of 113

WELL SAID

Norasmom Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 10:27pm
post #37 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katya1956 

Everyone can bake from a box. If you call yourself professional, and charge for it as a professional, you have to be different. You should be aiming to do things other people can't. How can you can justify the difference in the price between the store bought cakes and cupcakes and yours? We all know they make theirs using cake mixes. The only difference is they by their mixes in bags, not boxes. We all know box mixes contain chemicals. Start educating your customers on the difference between boxed and scratch. Once they taste well made cake from scratch, they will never go back. Don't make it easy for you, make it right for your customers.

Here's my difference:  people like my WASC better than my scratch.  LOVE it actually.  Chemicals are not the enemy if consumed in moderation...just think about what goes into our bodies...things like hair colorants and drinking water contain all kinds of stuff.  As do medications!

 What makes a professional is excellent customer service, a high level of integrity, love of what you do, education level (not necessarily in the baking biz, but other businesses), and an overall excellence in your area of expertise.  I think WASC is excellent as a recipe, so that qualifies for excellence.  

as you wish Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 10:35pm
post #38 of 113

AChemicals are not the enemy if consumed in moderation? Some of us are very, very sensitive to some chemicals. If I were misled into serving a boxed mix to my family, no matter how good it was, I would be very upset. I am not saying that box mixed are bad or that they shouldn't be used, but you need to be upfront about it.

BatterUpCake Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 10:51pm
post #39 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by as you wish 

Chemicals are not the enemy if consumed in moderation? Some of us are very, very sensitive to some chemicals. If I were misled into serving a boxed mix to my family, no matter how good it was, I would be very upset. I am not saying that box mixed are bad or that they shouldn't be used, but you need to be upfront about it.

If someone has food sensitivities it is their responsibility to ask....it is not my responsibility to put on my website every ingredient in my cake. Even those that bake from scratch often use high fructose corn syrup, dyes, imitation flavorings. Scratch does not necessarily mean pure and natural.

sixinarow Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 11:04pm
post #40 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by as you wish 

Chemicals are not the enemy if consumed in moderation? Some of us are very, very sensitive to some chemicals. If I were misled into serving a boxed mix to my family, no matter how good it was, I would be very upset. I am not saying that box mixed are bad or that they shouldn't be used, but you need to be upfront about it.

You might want to double check the ingredients in school lunches...they're not made from scratch...neither are snacks foods...store-bought breads...cereal...kraft mac-n-cheese..."chicken" nuggets..skim milk...salad dressings and a plethora of other foods your family is eating -- with or without you knowing!! icon_wink.gif

Just sayin' a boxed cake mix has nothing on those other foods. I use both, I have scratch recipes for about 2/3 of the flavors I offer, but I use a box mix as one of my ingredients in the other 1/3. 

sixinarow Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 11:04pm
post #41 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatterUpCake 

If someone has food sensitivities it is their responsibility to ask....it is not my responsibility to put on my website every ingredient in my cake. Even those that bake from scratch often use high fructose corn syrup, dyes, imitation flavorings. Scratch does not necessarily mean pure and natural.

^^^^^ thumbs_up.gif

smittyditty Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 11:13pm
post #42 of 113

1. Jason that video was great! I laughed and it reminded me of the girl I knew who didn't even know how to boil an egg!!!

2. Chemicals are the problem with box cake? COME ON someone who cared enough about chemicals wouldn't be eating freaking CAKE..lol

Its like when they ask if you want salt on your fries at McDs because someone has blood pressure issues. What the H*** is that person doing eating french fries.

If I was trying to be healthy I wouldn't be eating french fries. Chemicals shmemicals...people who profess its not healthy enough must be the same people who are drinking slim-fast just waiting for the fat to fall off. lol...apply the same analogy to a donut and see if it sounds silly.

3. I like Anna use both doctored mixes and scratch..which do I prefer the doctored mixes. The scratch are hard to work with and very crumbly.

as you wish Posted 26 Jul 2013 , 11:45pm
post #43 of 113

AWow! Some of you seem to be really sensitive on this subject. Did I miss something? I certainly didn't say that I think you should post all your ingredients on your website! Someone mentioned that when asked whether they use a box mix they said that used the recipe that works best for their needs. That just seemed a little evasive to me, because if someone had issues with certain chemicals that is exactly what they might ask. Of course it is up to the person with the sensitivities to ask, but when they do shouldn't they get a straightforward answer? Regarding the list of foods that have chemicals in them; that is a very nice short list of things that families like mine don't consume. No, it isn't easy. Thanks. It is interesting to note that I am not supposed to serve cake to my family if I know certain chemicals are harmful to them. I didn't realize that.

jason_kraft Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 12:07am
post #44 of 113

AI think the issue is that ingredients and process are two very different things. As a business owner you have a responsibility to provide a list of ingredients if asked, but whether a specific recipe is box, doctored box, or scratch is not relevant.

as you wish Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 12:08am
post #45 of 113

A

Original message sent by jason_kraft

I think the issue is that ingredients and process are two very different things. As a business owner you have a responsibility to provide a list of ingredients if asked, but whether a specific recipe is box, doctored box, or scratch is not relevant.

Totally agree!

BatterUpCake Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 12:15am
post #46 of 113

If someone asks "Do you use a box mix" I will not lie. But having dealt with many people with food issues (lots of my friends are Paleo and I recently did a smash cake with no dairy, eggs, using almond flour and no added sugar) I have never had someone ask that question. Most people will say are your products made from scratch?what processed food items do you use? I have the following allergies, do you have something that will work for me? If they ask "do you use a box mix?" I would most likely say that I have many different recipes, please tell me your concerns and we will see if we can work with them. If they have too many food issues I would  decline the order. If someone is that sensitive then they are usually best served cooking at home from scratch which is what all of my paleo friends do. I am not dishonest but I am in business and am not able to change my business practices for each and every customer. I am sure there are specialized bakeries that make their living that way. But that is not my business model.

smittyditty Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 12:18am
post #47 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katya1956 

Everyone can bake from a box. If you call yourself professional, and charge for it as a professional, you have to be different. You should be aiming to do things other people can't. How can you can justify the difference in the price between the store bought cakes and cupcakes and yours? We all know they make theirs using cake mixes. The only difference is they by their mixes in bags, not boxes. We all know box mixes contain chemicals. Start educating your customers on the difference between boxed and scratch. Once they taste well made cake from scratch, they will never go back. Don't make it easy for you, make it right for your customers.

This is what I was referring to. True box mixes contain chemicals but so does everything else. The percentage of customers who can't eat cake due to some chemical in the box cake mix vs scratch I would assume was tiny. The way I read this was that its healthier to eat scratch cake mixes vs box due to chemicals.

While true...if we are really going to be healthy we wouldn't be eating cake in the first place. I also see the healthy scratch cake going home to a family who has a pantry full of boxed goods and frozen foods which are loaded with the exact same chemicals removed from their cake.

 

I wasn't meaning any offense. Its more a hot topic for me due to french fries..I have to now ask for salt anytime I go and be asked if I want it merely because of the guy who shouldn't be eating them in the first place. In the chance moment I forget to ask for it..(low blood sugar heck ya I need that salt) I get unsalted inedible fries.

sixinarow Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 12:30am
post #48 of 113

A

Original message sent by as you wish

Regarding the list of foods that have chemicals in them; that is a very nice short list of things that families like mine don't consume. No, it isn't easy. Thanks. It is interesting to note that I am not supposed to serve cake to my family if I know certain chemicals are harmful to them. I didn't realize that.

We switched to a (mostly)whole food diet about 18mos ago, skim milk was the biggest surprise to me because it's marketed as such a health food.

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 1:01am
post #49 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatterUpCake 

If someone asks "Do you use a box mix" I will not lie. But having dealt with many people with food issues (lots of my friends are Paleo and I recently did a smash cake with no dairy, eggs, using almond flour and no added sugar) I have never had someone ask that question. Most people will say are your products made from scratch?what processed food items do you use? I have the following allergies, do you have something that will work for me? If they ask "do you use a box mix?" I would most likely say that I have many different recipes, please tell me your concerns and we will see if we can work with them. If they have too many food issues I would  decline the order. If someone is that sensitive then they are usually best served cooking at home from scratch which is what all of my paleo friends do. I am not dishonest but I am in business and am not able to change my business practices for each and every customer. I am sure there are specialized bakeries that make their living that way. But that is not my business model.

 So why can't you just answer with a  straight up "yes (I use a doctored mix etc whatever)" or "No"?

 

That's the part that annoys me..these beating 'round the bush answers. Just answer yes or no..and expand upon that if you feel the need.

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 1:29am
post #50 of 113

AAgree. I don't understand beating around the bush either. If you feel like you need to answer with anything other than yes, then maybe it's time to start experimenting with some scratch recipes. :-)

BatterUpCake Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 1:30am
post #51 of 113

Because it is not that simple...I do not only use box mixes....I also do scratch. I will do specialty, etc...

vgcea Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 1:58am
post #52 of 113

A

Original message sent by cakefat

 [B]So why can't you just answer with a  straight up "yes (I use a doctored mix etc whatever)" or "No"?[/B]

That's the part that annoys me..these beating 'round the bush answers. Just answer yes or no..and expand upon that if you feel the need.

Amen! You would think people that answer like that are ashamed or something.

vgcea Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 1:59am
post #53 of 113

A

Original message sent by BatterUpCake

Because it is not that simple...I do not only use box mixes....I also do scratch. I will do specialty, etc...

So if a customer asks regarding a specific cake if it's made with a box mix (and you do use a box mix for it), you won't give a specific answer?

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:00am
post #54 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgcea 


Amen! You would think people that answer like that are ashamed or something.

that's my impression too. Just own it and get on with it. 

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:11am
post #55 of 113

AIt is that simple, the answer is yes. You can fancy up your description of what else you do to it to sell yourself to the customer, but if they have an allergy or something to a box mix ingredient and you don't disclose that, you could open yourself up to problems.

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:13am
post #56 of 113

AFor the record, I think it's been stated several times that no one is judging, but I think most of us would if people were fudging about what they tell their customers.

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:33am
post #57 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZCouture 

For the record, I think it's been stated several times that no one is judging, but I think most of us would if people were fudging about what they tell their customers.

 

completely agree!! I do not have an issue with cake mixes..people like what they're accustomed to- not a big deal at all.

 

BUT being evasive with 'yes' or 'no' answers...that's seems shady to me..and that is what I have an issue with. Why dodge the question? 

BatterUpCake Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:33am
post #58 of 113

any of my flavors can be made with or without a box mix. Since I just learned of the WSC 2 months ago it's not like I can't bake without it. And as I said before the point is moot since that is not the question asked....I am just willing to work with the customer. So no it is not that simple. And I'm not gonna get into a peeing match here.

kikiandkyle Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:48am
post #59 of 113

A

Original message sent by texas_mom

I have always used boxed mixes and I tell everyone that wants a cake that that is what I use.  They don't mind because the cake come out great and it cuts down on the cost.  I can make a small two tier wedding cake for $20.00 using boxed mixes , buttercream icing and marshmallow fondant.  And since my cost for ingredients  is low so is the price of the cake and the costumer really likes that.  And the taste is what they are use to because that is what people most use at home.

I sincerely hope that $20 is your ingredient cost, not what you're charging...

vgcea Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 2:52am
post #60 of 113

AFor the record, I have nothing against mix cakes or mix bakers. A dear friend of mine and fellow caker uses doctored mixes and you should see me help myself to multiple servings. And shortening-based American BC (or whatever it is I get served at the potluck lawdhelpme), if you flavor that sucker right, I WILL EAT IT. I love my SMBC but American BC deserves some love too, and boy do i show some love. I'm equal opportunity as far as cake is concerned. In a cake drought, I've been known to eat grocery store cupcakes-- the last time I had TWO: one yellow and the other chocolate with something on top that was supposed to be icing. It was obviously mix and maybe crisco or its cousin but meh, when I want cake, I want cake. One of these days I'll bake the WASC and see what the hype is about. So my point is, it's OKAY to be a mix baker. [B]Just own it.[/B] It's the hemming and hawing that makes me lose respect for evasive people.

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