Skittlez88 Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 6:03am
post #1 of

I'm doing a lot of research for my future bakery and I'm having a lot of trouble making recipes from scratch that taste good. Today I tried making a IMBC and it came out water after I put in the water sugar mixture it was nice and at stiff peaks before that. My cakes from scratch taste weird and this is not going in the right direction for me. I can bake good moist cakes from a box.

26 replies
morganchampagne Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 6:05am
post #2 of

AWith regards to imbc...this happened to me two days ago, apparently it's REALLY important to pour the sugar syrup at a slow pace. I tried it again the next day pouring the syrup SLOW and it didn't break down into soup

kearniesue Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 11:52am
post #3 of

The recipe I use works great:

 

6 egg whites

1 cup sugar

1 cup powdered sugar

4 sticks softened butter

1 c shortening

1 tsp vanilla or whatever flavor you want

 

Put eggs and regular sugar in double boiler and heat until it is no longer grainy (stir lightly - don't whip it).  Take off heat and beat with wire wisk attachment until stiff peaks form.  Start adding the butter and shortening a little at a time.  Add flavoring and powdered sugar. Change to paddle attachment and beat for about 5 minutes to get extra air out.

 

I've used this for the past several months and have never had any issues.  GL!

liz at sugar Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 1:38pm
post #4 of

Kearniesue, what would you call your version of frosting you just posted?  Seems like a hybrid of Swiss Meringue buttercream and American Buttercream?  I'll have to try it one day.

 

Skittlez88: If you didn't get your sugar syrup to a high enough temperature it can break when adding to the meringue.  I always try to get it to a much higher temp than most recipes call for (without it caramelizing).

 

Liz

kearniesue Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 2:14pm
post #5 of

I'm not sure Liz.  I call it IMBC because that's what the recipe started as.  The original recipe was with just butter, but I add a little shortening so the butter flavor isn't quite so strong.  I usually add a little almond extract or orange too and it makes it really yummy.

Rosie93095 Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 2:17pm
post #6 of

Does it crust or smooth very well?

kearniesue Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 2:22pm
post #7 of

It doesn't crust, but smooths great - just like a normal IMBC.

kikiandkyle Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 3:20pm
post #8 of

ASkittlez what kind of ingredients are you using in your scratch recipes? I personally found that using a higher quality vanilla (I actually use the Nielsen Massey bean paste now) made a huge difference And in the taste of my cakes, as does using better quality butter. I also try to sub in some salted butter here and there as I think that adds to the taste too.

I tried to make IMBC once and it was a disaster. I studied several ways to make SMBC and make that instead now. I also got Rose Levy Berenbaum's Cake Bible from the library and made her neo classic butter cream a few times. There are times when ABC is just a better alternative and I still make that too, but it's nice to have the other options.

lorieleann Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 3:46pm
post #9 of
Quote:
Originally Posted by kearniesue 

The recipe I use works great:

 

6 egg whites

1 cup sugar

1 cup powdered sugar

4 sticks softened butter

1 c shortening

1 tsp vanilla or whatever flavor you want

 

Put eggs and regular sugar in double boiler and heat until it is no longer grainy (stir lightly - don't whip it).  Take off heat and beat with wire wisk attachment until stiff peaks form.  Start adding the butter and shortening a little at a time.  Add flavoring and powdered sugar. Change to paddle attachment and beat for about 5 minutes to get extra air out.

 

I've used this for the past several months and have never had any issues.  GL!

 

 

As to the question as to what type of buttercream this is,  Eggs + Sugar in a double boiler, then whipped together to stiff peaks is how a Swiss Meringue is made.  Sugar and Water heated on the stove to make a syrup then poured into eggs whipped to a stiff peak is how an Italian Meringue is made.  Each is turned into a Meringue Buttercream when after they are stiff and glossy, butter or shortening is added to the mixture. 

 

And to the OP--developing recipes that are delicious and reliable is one of the most time consuming parts of baking your own for your business.  It can take years to really fine tune recipes, and even then bakers are usually on the look out for new recipes and things to try.  I wish there was a magic book of recipes that can cut out that process, but even if you have the perfect recipe it will take many, many test cakes to get to the point that your technique is right on every time.  I really think that scratch baking is 50% recipe and 50% technique.   

Skittlez88 Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 11:07pm

I'm going to try the IMBC again today so hopefully it turns out better then yesterdays, that was a disaster.

scrumdiddlycakes Posted 25 Jun 2013 , 11:16pm

Google 'Joe Pastry IMBC', he does an awesome job at explaining his steps. My recipe is almost identical, as long as you pay attention to temperature, it's foolproof.

liz at sugar Posted 26 Jun 2013 , 1:43am

I love Joe Pastry. icon_smile.gif

 

Liz
 

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:24am

ATry smbc next time, it's a little easier for beginners.

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kearniesue 

The recipe I use works great:

 

6 egg whites

1 cup sugar

1 cup powdered sugar

4 sticks softened butter

1 c shortening

1 tsp vanilla or whatever flavor you want

 

Put eggs and regular sugar in double boiler and heat until it is no longer grainy (stir lightly - don't whip it).  Take off heat and beat with wire wisk attachment until stiff peaks form.  Start adding the butter and shortening a little at a time.  Add flavoring and powdered sugar. Change to paddle attachment and beat for about 5 minutes to get extra air out.

 

I've used this for the past several months and have never had any issues.  GL!

 

Isn't this a version of a swiss meringue butter cream above- not Italian?

 

 

 

Personally I make IMBC as that the one I first learned to make and it's easy for me. 

 

Check out this video before you make it...watch it a few times if needed and it will work. He explains very clearly all the steps

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxWmiHRTMz8

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:48am

AI reaaaaaally dislike recipes for meringue bcs that don't indicate a proper temperature to cook to. That's irresponsible. And I don't want to hear that it's from some famous Craftsy instructor either, doesn't make a lick of difference.

vgcea Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:53am

A

Original message sent by AZCouture

I reaaaaaally dislike recipes for meringue bcs that don't indicate a proper temperature to cook to. That's irresponsible. And I don't want to hear that it's from some famous Craftsy instructor either, doesn't make a lick of difference.

I know right?! I can't make myself click on that link. I just want to cry when I see stuff like "rub it between your fingers till it's no longer grainy." Are you kidding me?!

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vgcea 


I know right?! I can't make myself click on that link. I just want to cry when I see stuff like "rub it between your fingers till it's no longer grainy." Are you kidding me?!

 

ummm..that link is  not from a craftsy instructor and it gives temperatures when making IMBC..it's Warren Brown's instructions. Is that what you're talking about?

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZCouture 

I reaaaaaally dislike recipes for meringue bcs that don't indicate a proper temperature to cook to. That's irresponsible. And I don't want to hear that it's from some famous Craftsy instructor either, doesn't make a lick of difference.

 

what are you referring to?

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 7:15am

AI'm talking about the one up thread a bit that refers to heating the egg whites and sugar until it's not grainy. No mention of proper temperature. There's one on Craftsy that is similar if not the same, with the same references. I've been making smbc for years, and wouldn't dream of not using a thermometer to make sure I was heating to 160. That's just standard food safety.

cakefat Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZCouture 

I'm talking about the one up thread a bit that refers to heating the egg whites and sugar until it's not grainy. No mention of proper temperature. There's one on Craftsy that is similar if not the same, with the same references. I've been making smbc for years, and wouldn't dream of not using a thermometer to make sure I was heating to 160. That's just standard food safety.

 

oh yes..that's right and also very dangerous as you've pointed out to make meringue buttercream that way.

morganchampagne Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 7:28am

AThis is the thing. There's such a wealth of information on the Internet...most of it being inaccurate. & to tell somebody "until it's not grainy" is LUDICROUS. What's REALLY scary is people open business with these types of practices/recipes.

For those of you not taking these seriously (which doesn't seem to be anybody on this thread) please stop. I know somebody personally who went by this method and her husband got very very sick. It's so important to do things like this using temperature. Not just icing. Meat and everything else. It's truly a safety issue!!!

Ok I'm off my soap box now. Back to work lol

vgcea Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 8:30am

A

Original message sent by cakefat

ummm..that link is  not from a craftsy instructor and it gives temperatures when making IMBC..it's Warren Brown's instructions. Is that what you're talking about?

I didn't click the link (as I stated in my post). I was speaking in general of Swiss meringue recipes and videos I've seen where that is the practice.

BatterUpCake Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittlez88 

I'm going to try the IMBC again today so hopefully it turns out better then yesterdays, that was a disaster.

I'm not sure what you mean by watery but it will deflate some after first pouring your syrup in. The first time I made it this happened and I threw out a 12 egg batch. I went and read several more detailed recipes and watched youtube videos and tried again the next day. I beat it a lot longer and it turned out perfectly. Also they tell you it will take 10 minutes or so to cool...well, I know my batches take over 30 minutes. Partly because they are so large I am sure.

 

AZ "I reaaaaaally dislike recipes for meringue bcs that don't indicate a proper temperature to cook to. That's irresponsible. And I don't want to hear that it's from some famous Craftsy instructor either, doesn't make a lick of difference"

 

I agree 100% I would not even attempt it without a thermometer. It is too costly and time consuming to screw up. I heat my syrup for IMBC to just below 245 and my eggwhites for SMBC (which I have only made once) to 160....

 

I need to learn the multiple quote

Stitches Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 12:54pm

Please don't throw stones at me.............I agree a temp. should be part of the recipe. The thing is, you do cook it until the sugar dissolves and that really can only be tested by touching it, a temp. isn't accurate with this. At the point where the sugar does dissolve it is WELLover 160 (closer to boiling at 212)....it's so hot that you can just barely touch it.

 

I'm a professional pastry chef and a chicken as far as being a risk taker. I only use pasteurized eggs for my buttercreams...........it's a double safety check. I don't fear using my hands touching food. I wash them constantly while working and they are probably cleaner than most utensils. Rubber gloves are only effective if they are changed constantly and no one does. They give people a false sense of cleanliness. 

 

Food workers touch all of your food, it would be hard to find something not touched by someone's hands. If your germ phobic stay away from eating salads or any items not cooked at restaurants.

AZCouture Posted 27 Jul 2013 , 6:59pm

AI'm not gonna throw stones at you, I have no doubt you know what you're doing, but the inexperienced ones to working with meringue bcs shouldn't be learning that way. And my sugar and egg mixture dissolves down way before that temp gets anywhere near 160. It would eventually dissolve just because of the agitation of being mixed, probably. So that's my problem with instructions like that. And I will always temp mine, I will never go by feel no matter how many more hundreds of times I'll make it

Skittlez88 Posted 29 Jul 2013 , 6:58am

Thanks for your help on my post, to all of you.
 

ellavanilla Posted 29 Jul 2013 , 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatterUpCake 

I'm not sure what you mean by watery but it will deflate some after first pouring your syrup in. The first time I made it this happened and I threw out a 12 egg batch. I went and read several more detailed recipes and watched youtube videos and tried again the next day. I beat it a lot longer and it turned out perfectly. Also they tell you it will take 10 minutes or so to cool...well, I know my batches take over 30 minutes. Partly because they are so large I am sure.

 

 

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. Of course it's watery after you add the sugar, but after it has cooled, the butter firms it right up. if it doesn't you can put it in the fridge for a few minutes to cool it down. It really does become very easy to make after you've had a successful try. these days i take the sugar to the eggs right from the hot stove and then add ice cold butter after a two minute whip. I don't have any problems, but those shortcuts will come with experience. 

 

good luck,

jen

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