Is it illegal to get cost reimb????

Business By cakemama2010 Updated 8 Sep 2010 , 3:48am by BarbieAnnPlaysWithHerFOOD

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:08am
post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loucinda

I have complete trust in the inspector and the Ohio Dept. Of Agriculture. I can give you his name and phone number for you to debate with him what is allowed and what is not. I KNOW what is, I LIVE here, and I have talked with him on several occasions.

For me, I will follow the direction of the food safety specialists here in Ohio that regulate (and license) me.



Good, that's exactly what you should do. icon_smile.gif
I was just posting my own interpretation of the law as it is written, and since I'm not on the OH legislature you are perfectly free to ignore my opinion. icon_wink.gif

Loucinda Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:09am
post #32 of 66

NO, you are wrong again. The inspection is handled at the STATE level, not local. Again, you are posting wrong information.

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:13am
post #33 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loucinda

NO, you are wrong again. The inspection is handled at the STATE level, not local. Again, you are posting wrong information.



Restaurants in OH are inspected by individual county health departments, if it is different for cottage food makers then thank you for the correction.

http://www.highlandcountyhealthdept.com/foodsafetyprogram.htm

kelleym Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:13am
post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizatchgirl

Hi KelleyM! You are my hero. I wish you were in Az working to establish change for our Cottage Food laws. I hope that once Tx gets on the wagon, more states will follow.

[snipped]

Am I good because I'm not accepting money, or should I still check in with my local DoH?

Thanks for your help




Hey Kristy! As always, I advise everyone to check with their local HD, because they are the ones who know the law and can accurately apply it to your situation. People in other states are not in a good position to give advice on this subject. icon_wink.gif

Loucinda Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:15am
post #35 of 66

You are welcome - the inspections for the licensing of home bakeries ARE HANDLED AT THE STATE LEVEL. Here is their contact info if you should like to verify:

Ohio Dept. of Agriculture
Division of Food Safety
8995 E. Main St.
Reynoldsburg Ohio 43068
(614) 728-6250

Please refrain from passing information on that is not accurate, it isn't helpful to anyone.

(and again, this is ONLY if you want licensed, for the cottage food home bakers, there is no inspection, period.)

bizatchgirl Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:27am
post #36 of 66

Thanks KelleyM. I understand. Was just hoping donations were a little more straight forward.

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:32am
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loucinda

for the cottage food home bakers, there is no inspection, period.



There may not be an inspection of the home, but the OH law does allow cottage food products to be sampled by the state DOA to ensure they are not "misbranded" or "adulterated", so be sure to follow the correct labeling procedures as outlined in OH Code 3715.023.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3715.023

Loucinda Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:39am
post #38 of 66

Make sure you check the font size for me too jasoncraft...but then, I already KNOW what that is too.

Please stick with the laws in CA - unless of course you move to Ohio, then you can be an authority here too. icon_smile.gif

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:42am
post #39 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loucinda

Make sure you check the font size for me too jasoncraft...but then, I already KNOW what that is too.

Please stick with the laws in CA - unless of course you move to Ohio, then you can be an authority here too. icon_smile.gif



No problem, I was just correcting the inaccurate information you posted, as sampling is an inspection by proxy. icon_wink.gif
I enjoy legal analysis so you'll have to forgive me if I take arguments about the semantics of laws to the extreme. icon_smile.gif

Loucinda Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:49am
post #40 of 66

The info I posted is accurate. I don't care much for debating, personally. I just like the information to be correct. icon_smile.gif

cakesbycathy Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 1:49pm
post #41 of 66

Normally I wouldn't chime in here, but as a licensed home baker in OH...

Jason - I have found that almost all your posts are very well-written and you generally respond to things in a factual and non-emotional way, which I appreciate. I think that your advice in posts in usually spot-on. In this case however I think you are better off focusing on staying out of it since you do not live in OH.

I can assure you that Lucinda, myself and other licensed bakers here in OH are very, very well versed in the requirements to be legal and have actually spoken directly with an inspector. No offense, but we are better versed in giving advice for OH bakers than you are.

While I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful, I would never presume to give advice for a state you don't live in, regardless of the information you have found via the internet.

forthwife Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 2:09pm
post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakemama2010

I live in Florida and therefore can't bake from home. I've looked around online and can't find an answer...is it illegal to have customers only reimburse for the cost of supplies as long as my labor is free?? Any thoughts and opinions would be great!




I live in Florida as well. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE REIMBURSED FOR INGREDIENTS as long as you can provide a reciept for all goods purchased and do not mark up prices on anything. This is per State code from the Department of Agriculture.

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 3:01pm
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesbycathy

While I appreciate that you are trying to be helpful, I would never presume to give advice for a state you don't live in, regardless of the information you have found via the internet.



Once again, I was not giving advice, I was commenting on the vagueness of the text of the OH law (which I read directly from the OH legal code). I'm glad the inspectors are interpreting the law in your favor, but if I lived in OH I would lobby to have that particular provision removed or at least rewritten to be unambiguous (as other states' cottage food laws are).

This is just my opinion and is not to be taken as legal advice.

kelleym Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 3:03pm
post #44 of 66

Dude, it's not ambiguous. "Process" means "make". NO ONE has a problem with it except you. What does that tell you?

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 3:05pm
post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by forthwife

I live in Florida as well. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE REIMBURSED FOR INGREDIENTS as long as you can provide a reciept for all goods purchased and do not mark up prices on anything. This is per State code from the Department of Agriculture.



That seems odd...does that law specifically apply to home baking? Can you link to the relevant section of the FL State code?

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 3:08pm
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

Dude, it's not ambiguous. "Process" means "make". NO ONE has a problem with it except you. What does that tell you?



That I'm the only one with a differing opinion? icon_wink.gif
I'm not sure why everyone is so offended that I happened to interpret that law differently, but I think this horse if officially dead so I will not longer comment on this particular issue. Feel free to send me a private message if you want to yell at me some more. icon_smile.gif

forthwife Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 3:42pm
post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthwife

I live in Florida as well. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BE REIMBURSED FOR INGREDIENTS as long as you can provide a reciept for all goods purchased and do not mark up prices on anything. This is per State code from the Department of Agriculture.


That seems odd...does that law specifically apply to home baking? Can you link to the relevant section of the FL State code?




I called and spoke with Sandra in the Florida Department of Agriculture. You're welcome to call and ask her for the logic in the legal code. I'm only repeating what I was told was safe and legal by those in enforce it.

jackmo Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:08pm
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

I know all about the Ohio law.


So what is your interpretation of the Ohio 901:3-20-05 Prohibition "A cottage food operation may not: (A) Process potentially hazardous foods"?

I'm not trying to "scare" people, I'm just trying to get a better idea of what the OH law does and does not allow.




the only hazardous foods are cream pies, stuff with creamed fillings. Cookies and cakes without these perishable fillings are not hazardous. go to the ohio site an read the entire cottage law, it will tell you.

jackmo Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:18pm
post #49 of 66

jason, i am glad you are not over the hd in ohio. California is known for it's crazy laws anyway. I went there one year and was told that you can get in trouble for just honking your horn for some body to come out of their home. as beautiful as cali is, i am glad i don't live there! Freedom in Ohio, yessss!!

Mama_Mias_Cakes Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:40pm
post #50 of 66

Here is the fact sheet from Ohio Dept of Agriculture:

http://www.brightdsl.net/~fwo/downloads/cottagefood.pdf


In Ohio, it is determined at the state level not the local level like Loucinda stated. The only thing local you have to check is your zoning for a business in a residential area.

jackmo Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:40pm
post #51 of 66

jason, went to your site and you are a bussiness manager, which speaks of itself. so you are well aware of the bussiness and health laws of the food industry, in ca. But in Ohio, it is different. We can bake cookies and cakes and sell them from our homes as long as there are no pets and no carpet in the kitchen. i know you wondering , how can this be. its ohio. a lot of us home bakers probably don't bake in the same volumes of commercial bakers.

Mama_Mias_Cakes Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:42pm
post #52 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

jason, went to your site and you are a bussiness manager, which speaks of itself. so you are well aware of the bussiness and health laws of the food industry, in ca. But in Ohio, it is different. We can bake cookies and cakes and sell them from our homes as long as there are no pets and no carpet in the kitchen. i know you wondering , how can this be. its ohio. a lot of us home bakers probably don't bake in the same volumes of commercial bakers.




Actually, the carpeting and pets is for those who wish to be licensed through the Dept of Agriculture.

jackmo Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:47pm
post #53 of 66

thanks for the info.

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:53pm
post #54 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

jason, went to your site and you are a bussiness manager, which speaks of itself. so you are well aware of the bussiness and health laws of the food industry, in ca. But in Ohio, it is different. We can bake cookies and cakes and sell them from our homes as long as there are no pets and no carpet in the kitchen. i know you wondering , how can this be. its ohio. a lot of us home bakers probably don't bake in the same volumes of commercial bakers.



OH law outlines two different types of home-based commercial bakers: cottage food makers, which do not require licensing and do not have restrictions on pets and carpets, but cannot produce food that must be refrigerated, and home bakeries, which require a $10/year license and can produce refrigerated items.

The OH law also has no limit on sales volume, so both cottage food makers and home bakeries can make as much as commercial bakers.

Penny7271 Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 4:56pm
post #55 of 66

Maybe I should check my state again...
If Florida says home bakeries are illegal, but you can still get reimbursed for ingredients...maybe it is similar here, too.

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 5:02pm
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

jason, i am glad you are not over the hd in ohio. California is known for it's crazy laws anyway. I went there one year and was told that you can get in trouble for just honking your horn for some body to come out of their home. as beautiful as cali is, i am glad i don't live there! Freedom in Ohio, yessss!!



Just about every state has a law making it illegal to use your car horn for anything other than a warning to other drivers, but such laws are rarely enforced.
http://www.ehow.com/list_6297422_laws-car-horns.html

Excessive honking can get you a ticket in OH though:
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/01/22/honk.ART_ART_01-22-10_A1_RIGCIG7.html

And FYI, in OH you must honk your horn whenever you pass another car. It's also illegal for more than five women to live in a house in OH. icon_lol.gifhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/article/34310/dumb_ohio_laws.html?cat=17

jason_kraft Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 5:14pm
post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by forthwife

I called and spoke with Sandra in the Florida Department of Agriculture. You're welcome to call and ask her for the logic in the legal code. I'm only repeating what I was told was safe and legal by those in enforce it.



I don't care one way or the other as I don't live in FL, but when speaking with anyone in the government about legal issues relating to my business, I now always ask for the section of state law so I can confirm for myself the accuracy of what the person on the phone says.

I went through this a few months ago with the new law in CA banning trans fats -- the first person I spoke with at the health department said it was OK to keep using trans fats until the end of 2010, but then we got dinged in our inspection for using shortening with trans fats. The next time I called I asked for a reference to the actual state law, and the first person I talked to was incorrect. Verbal consent from a government worker does not trump the text of the law.

kansaslaura Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 7:48pm
post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

Dude, it's not ambiguous. "Process" means "make". NO ONE has a problem with it except you. What does that tell you?




Late to the conversation, but this caught my eye. In Kansas processing and making are two different things. I cannot with the license I have, make my fruit butters sealed in jars for sale unless I have an additional processing license.

When I hear the word process my mind goes to factories that commercially can, freeze or make salsa, for example out of raw ingredients brought in or meat packing plants. Processing usually involves some kind of preserving technique.

This is why I was told without an additional $400 license I would not be PROCESSING my fruit butters in jars for sale, but I could continue to make the butters and sell them out of a refrigerated case by the pound right along side the chicken salad.

I guess I've never said I was going to go into the kitchen and process a batch of sugar cookies, but I have said I need to process a batch of apple butter...

Just my 2 cents.

jackmo Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 9:10pm
post #59 of 66

stupid laws are made by control freaks that too much time on their hand. And do they follow them themselves, NO!. it sounds good so they introduce these laws and they pass. But like i said i am glad i am in Ohio. if i want to make a few dollars, just bake a cake. I don't bake a lot any way. and its bcause i don't want to. got enough on my plate as it is. sooooo why worry.

jackmo Posted 25 Aug 2010 , 9:22pm
post #60 of 66

to the person who posted the question. My advise to you, is to go to the people who deal with this and get the answers from them. Every state has different set of rules. So ask a person who deals with this. A person who lives in another state cannot tell you anything, because they don't live there. So the old say goes" Get it straight from the horses mouth" and you can't go wrong. personally, if a relative of mine ask me to bake a cake and reimburse me for the materials used, i don't see any wrong. But in a state that has laws concerning baking out of homes, if you make a profit with people outside of your family, then there is a issue. i can tell you to do this or that because i don't live in florida. and i am not going to try. to save your sanity please take the above advice. too many opinions will drive you batty.

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