Is This Legal?

Business By debbief Updated 15 Apr 2010 , 4:47pm by maxmorgan

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Larkin121 Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 7:17pm
post #91 of 100

It's not so simple for non-profit. And it's kinda underhanded, in my opinion, to start one mainly for your own benefit. There are all kinds of rules for non-profits, extra paper work, etc.

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leah_s Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 7:40pm
post #92 of 100

[quote="Larkin121"]

You are right that it is not fully about the safety of the public - here, like I said, a bed and breakfast, daycare, non-profits can all cook food and serve to people on a daily basis. [/quote]

In my state a B & B and day cares must be licensed by the HD.

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maxmorgan Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 8:18pm
post #93 of 100

WOW! I definately didn't say to open a non profit mainly for your own benefit; that's not even possible. "it would be a way to get expenses paid and give to charity."

Take a look at how all of your local non-profits are structured. You're right your cause definately should be your motivation I believe that. I don't think an inhome cake business would profit the way a church would; you might not even make as much as the priest does, get necessities paid as he does, or provide you with the same retirement fund that he receives.

But if you were setup as a non-profit it would help your charity and cover your expenses; as it grows so would the percentage you're giving to charity; there's nothing underhanded about that.

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Larkin121 Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 8:40pm
post #94 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by leah_s

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkin121



You are right that it is not fully about the safety of the public - here, like I said, a bed and breakfast, daycare, non-profits can all cook food and serve to people on a daily basis.



In my state a B & B and day cares must be licensed by the HD.




Yes, of course, ours do to, but from a HOME kitchen was my point. They can provide food from their home kitchen to their customers. Cakers can not.

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indydebi Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 9:16pm
post #95 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmorgan

Also when it comes to a loan someone stated that you have to have 2 years sales history; I believe every situation is different. ....... I am now a successful business owner (not a cake business).



Quite right that each state and each circumstance is different.

Let me add, for clarification, that when I went to the banks, I was told by all of them that SBA requires 2 years sales history on "restaurants". As I tried to explain "I'm not a restaurant!", they didn't care ...... it was a food industry business so it was all lumped together. The reason is that "restaurants" (aka "food businesses") have a high failure rate so they want to see some history and some experience in operating that business.

I'd love to know how a restaurant gets a start-up loan to open a restaurant AND have 2 years of sales history! I can't imagine someone running a restaurant "under the radar" out of their home! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

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JohnnyCakes1966 Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 10:04pm
post #96 of 100

indydebi, you hit the nail on the head! HOW do you gain 2 years of sales history (or any for that matter) if you're not allowed to SELL (regardless of whether you're making a profit, breaking even, or losing money)!?! icon_mad.gif I mean, it sounds like you can't even bake for FREE for the public without the possibility of being sued by someone! icon_cry.gif Am I understanding that correctly: you could GIFT a wedding cake to a friend, someone at the reception feels sick after eating it (my cakes ARE rich and delicious, so they probably had 2 or 3 slices and THAT'S why they got sick!! LOL ) and they could sue you and/or the caterer?? I find that hard to believe, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me!

So anyway, back to sales history...that's why I was asking: When you were starting out, did you find a kitchen to work out of so you could become licensed, build your clientele and sales history over 2 years, and THEN approach a bank and go big time (build your own kitchen, etc)? Did you start out small like that? I just don't see how else you (meaning anyone) could do it unless you had major bucks sitting in a personal account somewhere, in which case you wouldn't need a bank loan.

And your point about restaurants is right on...Restaurants open here all the time, and obviously they don't have ANY sales history! How does THAT happen? icon_confused.gif

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maxmorgan Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 10:10pm
post #97 of 100

There are other funding sources besides SBA; venture capitalist, finance companies, using collateral and co-signers, and there are some banks that offer more than just SBA loans, however if you can get funding from your mortgage it will probably be much cheaper and easier (tough in this economy); you will just have to be sure to make your payment so you don't lose your home; after two years you can most likely get that SBA loan if you want it.

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Elcee Posted 12 Apr 2010 , 10:37pm
post #98 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by debbief

whew! I was out of town for the weekend and came back to 5 more pages of comments to get through. But Im so glad I read them all. You all have great advice and Im glad to see Im not the only one with this dilemma.

Quote:
Quote:

Thanks! Yours are lovely too. Did you enter any cakes at the show in Denver in February?

_________________
~Elcee~



Thanks Elcee, no I didnt enter any cakes in the show in Denver. I actually have never even thought about doing something like that. But thats a great idea and another way I can get my fix icon_biggrin.gif . And Id also get an idea how I measure up to others. Like I said before, Im pretty new at this and I have a lot to learn. Just really enjoy it. And I learn (and see improvement) with every cake.

As I mentioned in my OP, I have a full time job and this is a hobby. Thats not to say I wouldnt love for it to turn into something more. What I really wish is that way back when I asked myself that question, what do I want to be when I grow up? I should have realized I could actually do something like this for a living. At the time, baking cakes seemed like fun and I just couldnt make myself understand that fun could be a career. So Im a legal assistant, and I dont hate it, but I would much rather be baking cakes!

Thank you all for your advice and I will go back and read all the comments more thoroughly because there are some very good points to consider. For now, I will continue to bake for friends and family and gain experience and hopefully go somewhere with it. But it is too bad they make it so difficult to get started. At least now I have some more ideas and different options to look into. Exactly why I asked the question in the first place! icon_smile.gif




Debbie...sent you a PM...but I wanted to add that I think it is just insanity that it is easier to sell a gun than a cake in Colorado icon_eek.gif

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JohnnyCakes1966 Posted 15 Apr 2010 , 2:18pm
post #99 of 100

I thought this was an interesting quote from Cakegirls (whose bakery in Chicago burned recently): "Like most cake decorators, my sister and I started our business from scratch out of our apartment..."

Of course, it's possible they started before the laws changed. I'm not sure when that happened.

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maxmorgan Posted 15 Apr 2010 , 4:47pm
post #100 of 100

I was thinking about asking a pizza restaurant if I could rent their kitchen in the off hours but I really want to know what I'm talking about before I approach them with the idea. I thought that because it was a pizza place maybe I could use the sheeter; do you think it would be a big deal to put fondant in a pizza sheeter? Also, I know nothing about pizza but I thought they must have several ovens so I could bake all of my cakes at the same time (such as a tiered wedding cake). The cake I'm speaking of is at no charge this time, but it would really cut down on the time it takes to bake one at a time. Also, I don't know how it would affect the restaurant for my license; do you think they get inspected twice a month and it might not be a big deal for them to inspect for my license? I would love for all of this to work out. Thanks for your input in advance.

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