I Got An Answer From The Copyright Office...
Business By costumeczar Updated 8 Mar 2010 , 2:37am by FullHouse
...and it's still pretty vague. I asked if you could copyright the designs on cakes or cookies, and they referred me to the publication about Works of the Visual Arts http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ40.pdf . In different places it says:
1. You can't copyright familiar images (I'd assume that this would include something like a picture of a cat or a basket of fruit.)
2. You can't copyright something that you've changed a little bit if it's based on someone else's design ("Mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring"). I would assume that this could be used to argue that you can't copyright a cake design, since you can probably find any number of designs that came before the one you're trying to copyright that are similar to what you've done.
And this:
3. "Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States to the authors of original works of authorship, including pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works. The owner of copyright in a work has the exclusive right to make copies, to prepare derivative works, to sell or distribute copies, and to display the work publicly. Anyone else wishing to use the work in these ways must have the permission of the author or someone who has derived rights through the author"
There's also an interesting section on Moral Rights, which says this: "The right of integrity allows artists to protect their
works against modifications and destructions that are prejudicial
to the artists honor or reputation", (which would probably be used to prevent people from making a comic book with Mickey mugging people and stealing their money. That would harm Disney's reputation, so that section would likely be used to argue that you can't do reproductions of copyrighted items in case it damages the reputation of the copyright holder.)
I think that you could find a lawyer to tell you whatever you want to believe, based on this. Unless it's a truly original work of art, it's doubtful that you could really get a copyright that would hold up under the terms they've listed. But read it for yourself, I'm not an attorney who's charging anyone by the hour, so I don't mind how long you take to read the whole publication
I was just discussing this with my husband (like he really cared, he thinks its silly how much I'm on here). It was nice to see an update, although still left for interpretation Which was my point in the last posts, anyone can think anything, its all how YOU read it
Sounds like someone may be paying a lot of money for some very subjective advice. And to that end, all I can say is that it must be nice to have that kind of money.
Pretty much what I thought. Hearts, turkeys, etc. have been around for a long time so who knows who invented/designed them.
Interesting. I think someone would have a very hard time defending copyright on a cookie or cake or design based on that information.
I don't have a problem with copyright on photos of cakes or cookies. It's just plain wrong to take someone else's work and make out that it's yours - not because of design issues, but because you are stealing their skill level, the quality of their work, their talent - if you have the skill to reproduce the cookie/cake, then prove it and take your own photo of your own cookie.
What irks me the most about copyright on cakes/cookies is that it implies that it's okay for the copyright holder to use other people's designs to create a cake/cookie (and let's face it, the copyrighted designs out there are not truly unique, just small variations on existing themes and styles), but nobody can use theirs. That's not playing fair.
Cris.
I still want to know whether or not a C&D has ever been issued because of a cookie.
I doubt it, but who was the person who just got a C&D from Chanel about the purse cakes? I guess it could happen if you're dealing with a large corporation. But then you'd be getting into trademark territory, which is a different animal.
I seem to remember that was a well-publicized bakery in the UK. I may be wrong.
Either way, I know if I were paying a lawyer to be at my beckon call, I would want that lawyer to earn every dollar. And to me, that would mean C&Ds all over the place!
I like to get my money's worth.
Sounds like someone may be paying a lot of money for some very subjective advice. And to that end, all I can say is that it must be nice to have that kind of money.
Exactly what I was thinking.
But.........What about the themed shaped cake pans you can buy. If you weren't supposed to recreate spiderman then why would they sell a pan in that shape knowing you were going to make a cake look just like spiderman??
I'd love to see God (or whoever you think created the universe) copywrite the Grand Canyon, or Angel Falls, or Dolphins. You know, all of the "Nature" that people photograph, and sell for huge amounts of money (Ansel Adams). Or scenery that painters have copied (Monet, for one). THAT would be HI-larious!!!!!
But.........What about the themed shaped cake pans you can buy. If you weren't supposed to recreate spiderman then why would they sell a pan in that shape knowing you were going to make a cake look just like spiderman??
You can only use that for personal use, not resale.
I'd love to see God (or whoever you think created the universe) copywrite the Grand Canyon, or Angel Falls, or Dolphins. You know, all of the "Nature" that people photograph, and sell for huge amounts of money (Ansel Adams). Or scenery that painters have copied (Monet, for one). THAT would be HI-larious!!!!!
I love your wit!
I would like to point out in the particular thread from before, her copyright was on her graphics that she was putting ON the cookie, not the cookie itself Just to clarify, not the shape the actual graphic. HOWEVER, the pumpkin pie, was just colors, so that was the one I thought the copyright would be vague on.
I just want to say that by the time they prove that you copyrighted, the evidence has been...well eaten.
I would like to point out in the particular thread from before, her copyright was on her graphics that she was putting ON the cookie, not the cookie itself Just to clarify, not the shape the actual graphic. HOWEVER, the pumpkin pie, was just colors, so that was the one I thought the copyright would be vague on.
But thats just it. A lot of her cookies were all ready done, to the tee.
Sounds like someone may be paying a lot of money for some very subjective advice. And to that end, all I can say is that it must be nice to have that kind of money.
Exactly what DH said when I was telling him about this.
Thanks, costume-czar for the info. Interesting, although, like you said, still very vague...
But.........What about the themed shaped cake pans you can buy. If you weren't supposed to recreate spiderman then why would they sell a pan in that shape knowing you were going to make a cake look just like spiderman??
I think in the case of the pans, you are only using them for personal, home use, as stated on the paperwork that comes with them. You are not allowed to sell those cakes. When you buy the pan, essentially you are paying for the right to use the design as well. That's my understanding anyhow...
ETA: Oops...Bella already got this one!
This is a question I have been thinking about since the last thread about this. Does anyone know the process of getting your image or "design concept" copyrighted? Who approves of it? Only the specific attorney? Because what I found confusing with the topic discussed in the previous thread was that just because a person had never seen a similar (or in some cases almost identical) design before does not give somebody the right to copyright, right?
So all I can say later is that I have never seen a Santa's Sleigh with presents before and that makes it ok? There has to be a process to get an image approved. Another example is how in the world was Tracy able to put a copyright on the shark that looks just like an already copyrighted character? How is that possible? Can you just copyright images left and right and then say I did not know?
If it can be backed, then no, it's not okay. Tthe thing is can you back your claim to copyright in a cout of law. As far as the shark goes, Disney just doesn't know. And when I explained to her that it was no mistaking it was Bruce and Disney would probably would have a problem with her claim, she removed it from her site. Go figure.
This is a question I have been thinking about since the last thread about this. Does anyone know the process of getting your image or "design concept" copyrighted? Who approves of it? Only the specific attorney? Because what I found confusing with the topic discussed in the previous thread was that just because a person had never seen a similar (or in some cases almost identical) design before does not give somebody the right to copyright, right?
So all I can say later is that I have never seen a Santa's Sleigh with presents before and that makes it ok? There has to be a process to get an image approved. Another example is how in the world was Tracy able to put a copyright on the shark that looks just like an already copyrighted character? How is that possible? Can you just copyright images left and right and then say I did not know?
There's a section on the link I posted that has the procedures to send in paperwork to get the copyright.
And the thing about copyrighting nature ...The publication also says that the copyright can protect the image created, but it doesn't give the copyright holder the right to prevent anyone from creating a similar thing, the copyright is on the image, not the object. There's also a section about an artist being able to prevent people from making a similar image and claiming that it was done by the original artist, since that would be forgery.
The copyright office can also reject applications if images are too common. Just becasue you put a copyright sign next to something doesn't mean that it's a real copyright.
She took all the photos down from flickr.
I don't think you could copyright a cookie design if you could I think there wouldn't be chocolate sandwich cookies and only oreos. Plus they have the money to back their claim ( or whoever came up with that design first)
I doubted the whole copyright issue would stand if challenged. You wouldn't know unless it was challenged. I was thinking that the lawyer was just doing the work for payroll. So then wouldn't the lawyer also make more money representing the case. This is heart breaking to see someone so talented and so passionate about her work possible being taken advantage of like this. I really and most sincerely hope she isn't getting taken for a ride on the money maker.
I doubted the whole copyright issue would stand if challenged. You wouldn't know unless it was challenged. I was thinking that the lawyer was just doing the work for payroll. So then wouldn't the lawyer also make more money representing the case. This is heart breaking to see someone so talented and so passionate about her work possible being taken advantage of like this. I really and most sincerely hope she isn't getting taken for a ride on the money maker.
That's what I was thinking, too. Her cookies were incredible, but I didn't think that her lawyer was giving a straight answer. After reading the publication I don't see how it would be possible to put a copyright on wedding cakes or anything like that.
I'd love to see God (or whoever you think created the universe) copywrite the Grand Canyon, or Angel Falls, or Dolphins. You know, all of the "Nature" that people photograph, and sell for huge amounts of money (Ansel Adams). Or scenery that painters have copied (Monet, for one). THAT would be HI-larious!!!!!
mommyle, you are hilarious!! I suppose God does have a Cease and Desist order of sorts, it's called death!! I'm glad he doesn't use it!
Kathi
I'd love to see God (or whoever you think created the universe) copywrite the Grand Canyon, or Angel Falls, or Dolphins. You know, all of the "Nature" that people photograph, and sell for huge amounts of money (Ansel Adams). Or scenery that painters have copied (Monet, for one). THAT would be HI-larious!!!!!
mommyle, you are hilarious!! I suppose God does have a Cease and Desist order of sorts, it's called death!! I'm glad he doesn't use it!
Kathi
You guys are KILLING ME! That would be the ultimate C&D!
Sounds like someone may be paying a lot of money for some very subjective advice. And to that end, all I can say is that it must be nice to have that kind of money.
Exactly what DH said when I was telling him about this.
Exactly what I thought, except I took it a step further by assuming the 'someone' was hubby's friend slash golf partner but only because his poker buddy didn't want the hassle.
Quote by @%username% on %date%
%body%