Wow mbelgard, that's an unbelievable story....just crazy.

I don't actually disagree, dkelly. That is why I gave away all my cakes--for four years. However, I think you could be missing the point in that if I GAVE a wedding cake to a relative and someone at the party got sick, they could still sue me. Just the same as if they tripped on my front porch. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. None of that has anything to do with payment or with the health department. That is a liability question and it comes into play every time I have someone over to my house for dinner or take a cake or a casserole to a friend's house.

I think what everyone is saying is that the health departments are interpreting the law to mean that you can't have a food business from an unlicensed kitchen. The interpretation is with respect to when it becomes a business.

If a group of us are all giving a wedding shower and splitting expenses and I do the cake, that is clearly not "selling' (But if someone gets sick, we might still be sued). If two of my friends are giving a shower and ask me as a favor to make the cake and offer to pay my expenses is that selling? This is not so clear.

Though I didn't take money til I found a licensed kitchen to share, that was my choice and clearly follows a minority opinion. My health department would have allowed it, and yes I think they would have come to court and stood behind their decision, as long as I could prove I didn't have a business and did cakes only for close friends as a favor--not for profit.

But if you really can't sell ANY food from an unlicensed kitchen, what about the cub scout dime-a-dip dinner where everyone brings something? Or all the times I organized/cooked dinner for the marching band and they paid me back? And yeah, they could have sued. The question is could they have won?

If you look up the meaning of business it states "goods or services exchanged for money on the basis of perceived worth." So anytime you take money for a cake you are in "business". A HD person may tell you that they won't bother you and probably 99 times out of a 100 they would not as they are too busy inspecting the restaurants and other places that they do. Let someone call and tell them that you are selling cakes out of your house, like the lady 2 blocks behind you that does the same thing and has lost some customers to you, and guess who is going to be at your door. MS. HD that said she would look the other way. I saw it happen in Atlanta, I don't know if the person turned in was done so by another caker or not but she was turned in and told if she persisted she would be fined. Myself, I think a kitchen to rent or use is better. I think that by doing so, you can go a little bigger and the occasional cake can turn into a rewarding hobby and eventually a great business if you want it to.
evelyn

This sort of gray area exists with many laws.

In my area, when they changed the speed limit to 65, the sherriff was on the news saying that they will give people a few mile per hour radius, especially if they are passing someone. I don't think many people get pulled over for going 66 or even 67.

I don't think people should have a business where their law states they should not have a business, but it appears that most HD do not think being reimbursed for ingredients or selling a cake to a family or friend is a violation of the SPIRIT of the laws they intend to uphold.

The inspector from our HD made the point that even if you're not a licensed business, the IRS will probably still be interested in any income that you get from cakes. Or the value of bartered items. Or "reimbursement" for ingredients. If you do ever get fined for some reason, they'll probably start looking into your back sales tax and your income taxes, too.

And to head off the inevitable, yes, the IRS website says that babysitting and other forms of petty cash earning jobs are supposed to be counted as income tax. And no, not many people pay employment taxes for their babysitters, but when they do get caught not paying they also get fined (think of all the politicians who have illegal immigrant nannies and got busted.)

So has anyone gotten fined or any kind of other trouble for sellin a cake out of their house? Has anyone claimed to have gotten sick from a cake? I just dont understand how they would be able to pin point the cake as the food that got them sick from if it was a wedding or party that had other food they ate. I think the only people who you would have trouble with would be someone who is jealous or someone who was unhappy with their cake. And of coarse the whole tax issue....

Y'know what I think and this is just me--there's much worse things than getting sued like going to the dentist for example. I mean draw the line wherever you want for yourself but all they're gonna get is my house. And I like my house but dude, take it.

We'll have to move and live somewhere else.

I do not fear getting sued and I do not live my life based around getting sued or not getting sued.

The only person ever got sick eating my cake was a diabetic who knew better than to eat it but she loved my butter pecan with toffee filling & had a rum splash in the cake.

Several years ago right after my Mom passed away, I made a cake for a new work place I was at. I think my Mom spiked it or something --it was magically delicious. It was absolutely amazing. I mean I've made the cake forever--this one was different. And my little diabetic friend had some of that cake and every time I made it after that she ate too much which probably one piece was too much but she din sue me. She got me orders.

Thanks Mom, love you

What's a guffaw?
I looked it up but I don't know how you mean it.

I totally agree. Just because certain authorities charged with enforcing/interpreting the laws have been known to "look the other way" for certain infractions, does not make it a foregone conclusion that every single HD rep who says "selling a cake to your family member does not mean that you are operating a bakery" is wrong and shirking his or her job responsibilities.

ANY time someone sells something to someone else (especially when it comes to "reimbursing") does NOT automatically mean that the persons involved are "operating a business." This assumption totally defies any sensible interpretation of law.

To the babysitting example, I would argue that if you pay your own child for babysitting his kid sister, then I'll be willing to bet that no, you are not expected to pay taxes on that. But it's true, I haven't read the law to be sure.

To go back to Kelleym's point: it is really fruitless for us to debate this here; it seems like the most sensible plan is to believe your own enforcing authority when asked what is actually legal, rather than be shocked and apalled when they state that the enforcement of the law varies from your own personal strict interpretation of its words. SUre, protect yourself: get names and write down dates of conversations. But when their policy jibes with common sense, then there's a point where you've gotta believe them.

well thank you for all of your input.... I think that they should focus on more important things that people r selling like drugs and weapons not cake and cookies.... I mostly sell my cakes for a low price to family and friends until I start up with a local caterer then my prices will increase It seems like no one has really gotten in trouble from selling a cake so Im not goin to worry about it. I keep my kitchen clean, use fresh ingredients and wash my hands a zillion times.... the only thing I worry about is my 4y/o wantin to help and someone getting sick off of eating too much cause I havent had any complaints yet .... just waitin for the bridezillas to freak out on me lol...... Did I tell everyone how much I LUV THIS SITE!!!! it has helped me so much!

Melissa Rae,

Ok wait--people have certainly gotten into big trouble for caking from an unapproved home facility and it's happened/happening all across the country.

(This is why trying to relate underage drinking, selling to minors as well as drinking and driving to making wedding cakes was an absurd analogy)

This thread is not at all about sanitation or about flying under the radar. This thread is about being a non-business, being a consumer where there isn't any radar, no one is in flight. We are grounded.

This thread is about doing cakes for family not about doing cakes for caterers. It's not ok you run a big risk of getting into trouble.

Doing cakes for caterers is a whole different thread.[/i]

I would love for a very in-the-know insurance agent (or an underwriter or very experienced claims adjuster) to chime in. I would think that if it was indisputable that you were not in business and were truly a hobbyist who took no compensation, that in case of a lawsuit, your homeowner's insurance would kick in. However, if there is even a hint that you do this as a business, using whatever definition that would fit legally, your homeowner's insurance would specifically exclude coverage. Certainly if you serve food in your home to your guests for no charge, there would be coverage.

What is this over riding fear of lawsuit?

What exactly is that about?

Who is doing all this suing?

Who ever got sued?

We have a lawsuit thread. There were some big problems in there but extenuating circumstances like poison, bad equipment failure. So these folks would be being prosecuted for crimes of murder and harming the public out of willfulness or negligence--no insurance for that.

What kind of cakes are we making that we need this costly invisible armour shield to protect us from the big bad boogey man of "getting sued"? The sky is falling the sky is falling.

I stand behind my cakes (for family).
I don't need to be insured since I don't run a business.

I don't need to be insured to protect me from idiots.
Being an idiot is beyond the ability to be insured against.

Your insurance agaent will sell you a rider to insure a home business whether it's legal or not.

Cool.

I have had continuous coverage for years with & without a business in place--just to cover my equipment and when I did do consults in the home plus my office is here.

In my experience insurance agents are sales people selling as much insurance as they can they're not concerned with so much red tape beyond that. And not that they should either I'm just saying.