When we're hiring decorators, we can't have them stage, but we test the heck out of them when they apply: Here's an 8" cake. Fill it, ice it, give it borders and roses, write "Happy Birthday" or "Congratulations". We time them on this. Anybody who takes more than 10-15 minutes is automatically disqualified. Anybody who doesn't know how to do any of those tasks is automatically disqualified, If you've got the chops but are obviously slow because you're nervous, which is understandable, we might hire you, depending on what else you can bring to the table. We'll take a second look at an eager, heart-on-fire newbie because we know they tend to learn fast as in "When I'm not here I'll practice on my own dime with my own tips and icing and dummy cakes at home". We currently have a relatively new decorator who does just that, and her skills have grown by leaps and bounds!
We once had a woman come in for an interview bearing a very professional-looking portfolio. She passed the interview with flying colors. When it came time for her to do the "test cake" as I explained above, she was at an utter loss.. Turned out she had printed off different cakes she'd found online and put them together into a portfolio so she could get an interview. She had no idea she'd be tested. She only had one maybe 2 cakes in her entire life, back when her daughter was young. We felt badly for her because it was so obvious she needed a job, but there was no way we could have her learn from scratch on our dime, never mind duping us with the "portfolio".
I have learned the hard way, every time, before I started watching youtube videos. I buy Craftsy classes, and spend time and money and loads of gas just getting the supplies to do my decorating with. I spent $17,000 on my bakery, and I moved to a different city and bought a house, so I could even build it. I have been doing this for 20 + years, and if some young thing comes in and has the skill, just needs an opportunity, I am willing to pay good money to have their help, but I will not be bullied by people who think they deserve it. This is my baby! You want to make good money, doing what you want, go build your own bakery.
On a side note, it's hard to be a bakery these days. There used to be a bakery on every corner, but now thanks to grocery stores actively putting them out of business, they've become relatively a rarity. And now with the cottage food laws making it legal for so many to sell cakes from home, they have to deal also with that. Maybe something to keep in mind when you're pricing your cakes. We don't want to be striving toward a goal (owning a storefront bakery) in an industry we're weakening by undercharging.
On a side note, it's hard to be a bakery these days. There used to be a bakery on every corner, but now thanks to grocery stores actively putting them out of business, they've become relatively a rarity. And now with the cottage food laws making it legal for so many to sell cakes from home, they have to deal also with that. Maybe something to keep in mind when you're pricing your cakes. We don't want to be striving toward a goal (owning a storefront bakery) in an industry we're weakening by undercharging.
so true!
i think the hardest (death) blow to the bakery business was a few decades ago when a certain marketing strategy re-focused off of wholesale and onto on the homemaker and she became empowered to do their own.
that has further enabled the bold and the beautiful to lobby for cottage laws so they can take it a step further even
and what do we do all day long
(not to mention you tube etc. etc.)
give away trade secrets
it's 'the way we are' (lois wyse)
i think the hardest (death) blow to the bakery business was a few decades ago when a certain marketing strategy re-focused off of wholesale and onto on the homemaker and she became empowered to do their own.
The TV shows have dealt by far the hardest blow to ALL cake makers. THEY make the customers think that they should be able to get a huge cake for next to nothing, because "it only takes 15 minutes".
The cottage food laws on the other hand provide some of the same regulation that restaurants have accepted for their own good. And you see them flourishing.
The Wiltons had it right when they started teaching outside of culinary institutions and printing yearbooks for homemakers. They gave US access to the professional baking tools, they provided lessons, and the possibility to start businesses. I can't thank them enough.
I wanted to address the orignal post
I have been running my bakery for almost 9 years now. My place is spotless (you never know when an inspector will come by) so much so we have a huge window for customers to watch us decorate, so we HAVE to keep it clean. Yes, pay is low, which I will explain a little later. (My average employee makes 11 dollars an hour)
My state doesnt require breaks, but my encourage my employees to take a break if they seem like they are tired or not doing a good job. I have heard from them that other places they work do not allow them to sit. I dont know how you decorate the sides of a cake without sitting, so I allow sitting. I also assign cake orders so they have the time needed to complete and don't push them too hard as I dont want the cakes to suffer. All of our cakes are custom, so we don't do the big grocery store sheet cake mess, so maybe that has something to do with it. I have levels of decorators and they are assigned work according to their level. We listen to the radio all day and have a tv for breaking news or weather if we want to watch. We share washing dishes, we share sweeping and we share tasks, so nobody gets bored. I try to be fair, yet firm and I have some pretty good employees who are dedicated to the shop.
But do you want to hear the other side?
I have to deal with employees who came to work stone, or drunk. Some 1 hour late. I have employees who will TEXT me they quit. I will NOT hire a smoker and I have had them lie to me and I can smell it on them. I had a group of girls who I called the Three Witches who tried to get other employees against me. Never understood why, but some people are just like that. I had an employee who didnt pick up your last paycheck and tried to turn me into the department of labor (they were on my side, but still it was stressfull)
If the place you work at is dirty, why dont you help clean? Do you get a lunch hour? Many states do not require breaks if you get lunch. How much texting and personal calls do you take a day with your cell? Do you offer to do anything extra? I personally am not sure I would want someone with an additude..are you showing this kind of additude at work?
A bakery owner has to deal with rising rent, rising cost of materials, taxes, new laws, insurance, customers, and most of us work 100 hours a week, with no vacations, no sick leave, and barly make a living. We aren't rich. Do you know how many people I have walk in here and tell me they want to decorate cakes becuase it looks like fun on tv? They think its easy.
I dont consider home bakers a threat because most of them fail the first year. I instead have to deal with other bakeries in our area who suck, but they post in blogs and facebook lies so they can make other bakeries look bad.
Please don't paint all bakeries with the same brush. Many of us are proud of our work and our shops. And appreciate GOOD employees
Here here lorimoms! I too have had someone text me at 10pm the night before a huge wedding to let me know they "couldn't make it" to work the next morning because they got invited to do something cool at the last minute that they'd rather do. I stupidly waited to do a lot of the detail work because this person begged me to teach them how I do XYZ (and I'm a sucker for teaching) so it got pushed to the last minute. SO instead of having a carefully planned 8 hour day that was supposed to be easy I had 16 hours straight of complete chaos. I never heard from that person again.
That is another thing people don't understand (my husband included)... there is no calling a bride to say, "Hey! I, like, totes wanna go to the Brew Fest with my BFFs instead of working the next 20 hours straight on your wedding cake, so, like, I'm tots gonna do that, m'kay?"
Loriemoms, I am just referring to a trend I have noticed in over 10 bakeries I have interviewed or worked at, not trying to generalize that all bakeries are this way. The dirty conditions were noticed BEFORE I started working, obviously I always clean up after myself, but some of these bakeries have a cleaning crew that comes in after dark, so I'm just responsible for the mess I make. I would happily clean and wash dishes if they did not have a paid employee doing these, but most I've worked at do.
You said you pay your employees $11.00 an hour, which is UNHEARD of where I live. I was literally offered $7.00 by more than 3 bakeries. It would be extremely difficult to make ends meet with that salary for that amount of work. I could work at McDonald's and make more.
I'm sorry about your employees who are irresponsible. That is not me at all. I work very hard and put my heart and soul into my cakes. I never text and work and have never, ever showed up drunk or high to work. I would happily sacrifice a break to perfect my work. But if I don't eat very few hours, I get extremely woozy and disoriented, and it affects my performance at work. I've dealt with situations where I was told that I could have my lunch while working. As the new employee, I noticed that I was the only one who had to work and eat simultaneously, and veteran employees could come and go as they pleased, ordering food for the whole staff and not asking me. (this happened more times than I could count.) Eating lunch IS my break, and since I'm still working, it is not a break at all.
I don't know if this is just about some people being ****ty, or if it's the business. But my whole point I wanted to make was that I was feeling discouraged from the industry based on my bad experiences. I didn't mean to generalize. I wanted to see if others had experienced this, and apparently they have. Your bakery actually sounds like a enjoyable work environment. I have yet to find such a place. I know running a bakery is not easy, and at this point I don't think I could do it. Hopefully eventually. The places I have been at are also not custom cake shops, but established bakeries than have been there over 20 years.
A
Original message sent by jackiegran
I was literally offered $7.00 by more than 3 bakeries.
I wanted to address the orignal post
I have been running my bakery for almost 9 years now. My place is spotless (you never know when an inspector will come by) so much so we have a huge window for customers to watch us decorate, so we HAVE to keep it clean. Yes, pay is low, which I will explain a little later. (My average employee makes 11 dollars an hour)
My state doesnt require breaks, but my encourage my employees to take a break if they seem like they are tired or not doing a good job. I have heard from them that other places they work do not allow them to sit. I dont know how you decorate the sides of a cake without sitting, so I allow sitting. I also assign cake orders so they have the time needed to complete and don't push them too hard as I dont want the cakes to suffer. All of our cakes are custom, so we don't do the big grocery store sheet cake mess, so maybe that has something to do with it. I have levels of decorators and they are assigned work according to their level. We listen to the radio all day and have a tv for breaking news or weather if we want to watch. We share washing dishes, we share sweeping and we share tasks, so nobody gets bored. I try to be fair, yet firm and I have some pretty good employees who are dedicated to the shop.
But do you want to hear the other side?
I have to deal with employees who came to work stone, or drunk. Some 1 hour late. I have employees who will TEXT me they quit. I will NOT hire a smoker and I have had them lie to me and I can smell it on them. I had a group of girls who I called the Three Witches who tried to get other employees against me. Never understood why, but some people are just like that. I had an employee who didnt pick up your last paycheck and tried to turn me into the department of labor (they were on my side, but still it was stressfull)
If the place you work at is dirty, why dont you help clean? Do you get a lunch hour? Many states do not require breaks if you get lunch. How much texting and personal calls do you take a day with your cell? Do you offer to do anything extra? I personally am not sure I would want someone with an additude..are you showing this kind of additude at work?
A bakery owner has to deal with rising rent, rising cost of materials, taxes, new laws, insurance, customers, and most of us work 100 hours a week, with no vacations, no sick leave, and barly make a living. We aren't rich. Do you know how many people I have walk in here and tell me they want to decorate cakes becuase it looks like fun on tv? They think its easy.
I dont consider home bakers a threat because most of them fail the first year. I instead have to deal with other bakeries in our area who suck, but they post in blogs and facebook lies so they can make other bakeries look bad.
Please don't paint all bakeries with the same brush. Many of us are proud of our work and our shops. And appreciate GOOD employees
That how I envision my shop to be. And the thought of employees is terrifying because I know I'll run into the same kinds of problems.
I just want to take issue with one thing you said about the cleaning. I did work in a dirty bakery for about 4 months before going out on my own and we weren't allowed any time to clean. If I did clean something other than mopping the floor or washing down my work table, I was "asked" why i wasn't doing something else. That place was awful -- I was always nervous to pull out a cake board because it was pretty typical to find small roach crawling on it. I also wasn't allowed to set up a system so we'd know how long items had been in the display case. We had to keep it in our heads, which was impossible since we might not even be the person who set an item out there. More than once I had to direct a customer to another product because as I was wrapping it up, I found it to be growing mold.
mold--wow
i play ice chute spotting all the time esp. fun on vacation
check out the ice chutes in any store or fast food place-- where you fill your own cup with ice--7 out of 10 have black mold easy peasy--srsly srsly srlsy srsly--
check the crevices -- i then have a quiet chat with the manager
the drink spouts for fountain drinks are also a creeping crawling blackened germfest
love bottled soft drinks!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
but about employees--you gotta know how to fire people too
one great employee makes all the difference in the world though
the bad ones are far too memorable but...most of them are really good
mold--wow
i play ice chute spotting all the time esp. fun on vacation
check out the ice chutes in any store or fast food place-- where you fill your own cup with ice--7 out of 10 have black mold easy peasy--srsly srsly srlsy srsly--
check the crevices -- i then have a quiet chat with the manager
the drink spouts for fountain drinks are also a creeping crawling blackened germfest
love bottled soft drinks!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is why I no longer drink fountain drinks. My dh works on this equipment and due to his horror stories and the evidence he's brought home, I can't think of anything more disgusting. He brought home one valve from a fountain that had GREEN FUR growing in it. And he tells these people how to take care of it! Hot water is not that hard to find, and that's all it takes.
The only fountains I'll drink from are at the hospital or the military base - and how often am I going to be there? But restaurants? No way - they're all gross. And the HD doesn't check for that kind of thing.
Howsweet, WOW!! A bakery that sells food that is growing mold? It is a wonder that they have not been shut down yet. It is pretty gross that they never cleaned the place. Don't they have health food inspectors that come around and check out these bakeries? What state was this bakery in? You have to keep your kitchen spotless and clean up as you go otherwise you are feeding the roaches and they would be breeding like crazy. Yuck!!!
I remember my husband telling me about Madison Avenue in NY where he used to deliver to these fancy resturants and he told me he would go down into the basement of the restaurant and said there would be rats that were huge running around the restaurant and roaches like nobody's business running around. This was about 30 years or so ago when he lived in NY. I guess that is why my husband and I do not eat out hardly ever.
I know it's so bizarre that it sounds like I'm making it up. I should explain that it was not a mom and pop bakery, but a national chain grocery store bakery department in a high end neighborhood in Houston. And yes, they had "inspections". I never quite understood it, but it seemed like they paid a private company to do the health inspections. All the inspectors cared about was that there was nothing on the floor. They chatted with the bakery manager, but didn't open a drawer or pull anything out.
And if anyone is interested, the bakery manager told me that the decorated cakes portion of the bakery operated at a loss, but doing so kept people in the store buying other bakery items like breads, cookies, pastries. It was necessary to sell cakes to keep the bakeries out of business. That why you pretty much never see a a strip center with a bakery and a grocery store. The grocery store sees that it's in the lease. They actively do everything they can to keep bakeries from being in existence. That's true with florist shops, too. There used to be florists and bakeries everywhere, like dry cleaners. but that's a thing of the past. Even though grocery stores produce an inferior product.
AI think it's bizarre that none of the employees working in that environment reported the store to the health department and continued serving customers food that was prepared in a potentially unsafe environment.
I think it's bizarre that none of the employees working in that environment reported the store to the health department and continued serving customers food that was prepared in a potentially unsafe environment.
They get fired, Jason, and they probably also get blacklisted locally.
It's only the customers who can safely report infestations. THAT is what gets the full inspection that finds the droppings and other evidence, and causes the fines and closures for cleaning.
A
Original message sent by BakingIrene
They get fired, Jason, and they probably also get blacklisted locally.
There are also laws that protect whistleblowers, being fired in retaliation could lead to a potentially profitable wrongful termination settlement, especially if there is a union involved.
A
Original message sent by -K8memphis
yes there are and all it costs you is most of your life.
I'm certainly not discounting the difficulty of the decision (especially when you depend on the income from the unsafe job), but it's often the case that the right thing to do is not easy.
Looking back, I realize you are absolutely right -- I should have "blown the whistle". I was in a terrible place at the time - husband of 20 years leaving me for another woman, traumatized by that working environment, not sure how i was going to pay my bills, afraid I was going to lose my home, trying to figure out how I was going to care for my mom with Alzheimer's, etc. I don't think it even occurred to me to report it which tells you what a state I was in.
No one else in the department cared. The people I worked with were the bottom dregs of society. Two of the women used to visit to the prison in Huntville trolling for men. Who looks for a boyfriend who's incarcerated?
Today, I'd report them in a New York minute. One lasting effect is I will never, ever, ever buy anything in any dept of a grocery store (bakery, fruit, or deli) that wasn't pre-packaged before it got to the store.
This is so true! When we were looking for a space, many of the malls with grocery store anchors would not allow bakeries. Even if you just did cakes. Its really sad.
As far as dirt and mold and roaches...that is REALLY gross! Where is the health department?? Don't they stop by and check these places out? If worked at a place that had mold, I would call in an anoymous complaint. you don't have to give your name, and it would protect the public.
AWhen I first worked in fast food 17 years ago, we would take the outer part off the fountain every single night and wash and sanitize them. I quit and came back 6 months later and they weren't doing that anymore. Gross. It seems like all the jobs I had in fast food, they just got worse and worse over the years. I swear I worked at every fast food restaurant in my small town, twice! First time around and second were totally different cleaning practices. Never for the better, either. Of course.
This is so true! When we were looking for a space, many of the malls with grocery store anchors would not allow bakeries. Even if you just did cakes. Its really sad.
As far as dirt and mold and roaches...that is REALLY gross! Where is the health department?? Don't they stop by and check these places out? If worked at a place that had mold, I would call in an anoymous complaint. you don't have to give your name, and it would protect the public.
No one would have given the customers any food with visible mold and they all knew I was the only one who cared. They would have assumed it was me. Not that I would have been the least bit bothered if they fired me. That wasn't the reason I didn't report them. I think I covered why reporting them was the last thing on my mind at the time. And that they had a private inspector who didn't really look at anything. They also knew when he was coming - not the time and day, but that it would happen, say, toward the end of a given week.
As to where is the health department -- food safety has a lot more to do with the personal integrity of the management of a food establishment than it does the health department. People like to think the health department is completely protecting them, but really, if they saw what goes on behind the scenes at a lot of places, they might prefer to eat at home. Also there are things the health department can't see. For example, when we made a cake with strawberries, they went directly on or in the cake without being washed. There was no colander, no proper place to wash them and they didn't want us to spend time doing it.
No one would have given the customers any food with visible mold and they all knew I was the only one who cared. They would have assumed it was me. Not that I would have been the least bit bothered if they fired me. That wasn't the reason I didn't report them. I think I covered why reporting them was the last thing on my mind at the time. And that they had a private inspector who didn't really look at anything. They also knew when he was coming - not the time and day, but that it would happen, say, toward the end of a given week.
As to where is the health department -- food safety has a lot more to do with the personal integrity of the management of a food establishment than it does the health department. People like to think the health department is completely protecting them, but really, if they saw what goes on behind the scenes at a lot of places, they might prefer to eat at home. Also there are things the health department can't see. For example, when we made a cake with strawberries, they went directly on or in the cake without being washed. There was no colander, no proper place to wash them and they didn't want us to spend time doing it.
^^^this^^^
yes--food safety is dependent on the integrity of the management and their ability to enthuse their staff and enforce consequences
who really can believe that a handful of inspectors can adequately police thousands of workers and hundreds of establishments that serve millions of drinks daily plus all the rest
yes, strawberry and fruit washing and when they put the tasting spoon back in the ganache, etc. etc.
and whistle blowing is a curse both ways unfortunately--of course people know who does it--the repercussions are vast
i say it this way, 'you cannot create your own leadership' it's either there for you with the integrity in place or it's not--making a phone call and busting chops does not create leadership with integrity
yes safety is vitally important and in first aid the first thing is to make sure the first responder is not in harm's way in order to render aid
"life's fulla tough choices init" ursula in the little mermaid
When my dh and I opened our restaurant we had an initial inspection from the HD. The inspector was telling us what was allowed and what wasn't, and I was sitting there with my head spinning. One thing he told us was that as long as you were going to cook something, you could pick it up off the floor and not worry about it. Really? Gag.
The HD is a lot more worried about temperatures than any cleanliness issues.
ATruthfully, it probably is fine to still eat it after it has been on the floor, if you are still going to cook it. Vegetables are grown right in the ground ;-) we just rinse them with water before eating raw, or before cooking. Actually, I am WAY more grossed out by the thought of eating dirty berries than properly cooked food that touched the floor while it was raw. I assume it would be rinsed first, and proper hair restraints are being used...
AGiven that health inspectors are tasked with ensuring all food service businesses maintain at least a minimal level of food safety (which is pretty much all they can do in most areas at current funding levels without raising taxes/fees), I don't see an issue from a safety perspective if you pick up food from the floor and cook it, since the cooking process will kill any bacteria. IMO food that has touched the floor should be thrown out, but that decision is based on food quality (which can be subjective for different businesses), not safety.
Even if an inspector thought it was not acceptable to cook food that touched the floor, it would be impossible to enforce this unless someone happened to do it while the inspector was there.
Making sure fridge and freezer temperatures are in compliance is probably one of the most important points of the inspection. It was also a violation to store anything directly on the floor.
Truthfully, it probably is fine to still eat it after it has been on the floor, if you are still going to cook it. Vegetables are grown right in the ground
we just rinse them with water before eating raw, or before cooking. Actually, I am WAY more grossed out by the thought of eating dirty berries than properly cooked food that touched the floor while it was raw. I assume it would be rinsed first, and proper hair restraints are being used...
WHAT? NO! Not to get a preachy but...
The 5 second rule is completely false. Countless studies have been done on it, I link you to Mythbusters, where they busted it completely:
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/39535-mythbusters-five-second-rule-video.htm
So, if a piece of food grows a colony of bacteria in under 2 second exposure to the floor "too innumerable to count", then it is a contaminated piece of food and unsafe to eat.
Time temperature control only does so much - if the food item is contaminated it will still make people sick no matter how high you cook it, unless you cook food at at least 250F under a minimum pressure of 15psi. Heat alone does not kill bacteria, you need pressure, otherwise hospitals would just be deep frying or boiling their instruments!
OK, off my soap box now. Love you Anna!
Ahttp://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/bacteria/
NIH says that thoroughly cooking food kills bacteria.
I don't want to get into an off topic debate, but having my manager's servsafe card, I have to post the facts as it applies to the food service industry - not per Google search.
Serving food that has been dropped on the floor is a HD violation. It's against the American National Standards Institute and the Conference for Food Protection, which sets the national guidelines for HDs all over the country: contaminated food comes from biological, physical and chemical sources. As a general rule, food that comes out of a package is safe assuming it was kept in time/temperature control and if you cook/cool it properly, but of you drop it on the floor it picks up biological contaminates like bacteria and mold, physical contaminates like broken glass and dirt, and chemical contaminates like 409 floor cleaner and pesticides. Cooking it and selling it is not safe and I can't believe any HD would NOT issue a violation on it.
People that have taken a manager's ServSafe class have this drilled in.
Now, if I'm home and my kid tosses her tots on the floor, yeah. I pick them up and put them back on the tray for her to eat. I may even take a bite myself to show her how yummy it is. The difference is... the risks I take at home with me and mine are completely different then the risks I take at work with you and yours.
But enough about that please!
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