So I want to start my own little at home baking side business after some practice and I feel like I'm good enough to start selling. My question is. How do you deal which customers whom want you to make cakes that you refused to make? I will be refusing to make Holiday, sexual or, homosexual cakes because of my religious beliefs and I simply do not like modern day feminism. (sigh, lets be clear up front, I don't hate gay people so don't try to insult or attacked me because of that. I am willing to make a cake for them just fine, so long as it doesn't have to do with being gay, or is a wedding cake for gays.) In this sue happy country we call America, How do we protect ourselves from being attacked and slandered in court ( As has already happened to a few Christian bakers already.) The idea of this happening has turned me off from doing this in the past, I know the risk and Im willing to take them to do this. I guess my real question is to say how can I limit some of these risk? Would being an at home baker make me like less likely to be a target?
P.S If your only message would just be you insulting me, you can save your breath because I've heard it all before and any rude messaged will simply be ignored.
I think that you will not be able to find a way to portray that message without putting yourself in to a very negative light.
I am trying very hard to set aside any personal judgement here as I stand on the opposite end of the rainbow to you but I don't think you can refuse to make a cake for someone based on those things without it being considered discrimination, kind of like refusing to serve a gay couple at a restaurant would be discriminatory, I see it the same as what you are saying here.
I also fail to see what you mean by no holiday or feminism cakes? Could you explain that further?
From what I see you are more than welcome to hold your own beliefs but I don't think you can refuse service based on gender, ethnic background or sexuality etc without it becoming a legal issue so perhaps a less polarising job role where you will have no need to pass judgement on these things may be better for you?
Again, take my comment with a grain of salt as I am genuinely biting my tongue while responding to you so while I don't think I am being offensive to you I guess it's possible you may see my response as just that.
I for one will not make or sell Adult - 18+ type cakes - rude cakes. I don't like to make them, I don't think they are funny and I want nothing to do with them. If people ask me for a cake like that I just tell them I don't make cakes like that but I'd be happy to make you something else. This is a reasonable refusal.
As for your other won't make items, it is flat out discrimination to refuse. So your best bet would be to stick to word of mouth within your group of friends, church and community who share your beliefs. Once you start advertising and selling to the general public you are walking a tricky line with the law. You are entitled to your beliefs - but when it comes to imposing them on the general public it is discrimination. Once you open up a public business - you must serve the public or risk legal problems.
Hope that helps.
Ditto @bubs1stbirthday...great response.
this would be the wrong business for you especially in this day & time unless you strictly limit your offerings to make certain styles only -- no freehand creative wow wow stuff -- only from your catalog exactly and it could be seasonal too -- you could change it all the time -- even at that someone might want you to write on one of those cakes something you don't agree with because you have a lot of boundaries there --
geez with all the obstacles to having a baking business you are making it so hard for yourself on top of all that -- why bother -- do something where you can flourish and soar --
because you can always bake whatever you want anytime you want -- you don't have to sell it -- but you probably can't have much of a business like you want -- unless you are in the midst of thousands of like minded people who will always buy from you and no one else will which i mean people are out there looking for people like you just to push the envelope -- save yourself some grief is my advice --
you are not proposing a decorated cake bakery business -- i mean you could bake all kinds of stuff like brownies, (fry) doughnuts, pies, counter cakes and cookies, tons of breads etc -- but it's like you're wanting to sell to people with names that start with every other letter in the alphabet but only those thirteen -- you are absolutely setting yourself up for a big pia -- just eliminate the decorated aspect and you might have a shot at it --
but i just wonder sometimes when we get questions like this -- if these are real quandaries people have or if somebody just wants to pull our collective chain --
lemme get this straight -- you want to set up a decorated cake business and not service a vast majority of the average business model -- do i have that correct? why?
you want to be a target -- you already know you'll be a target (your words) go be a martyr -- run a bakery -- who does that?
i wanna be a cake decorator but i'm not using food color or sugar -- would that make it more difficult for me? phffft
and though i was pretty direct and incredulous -- i'm not touching any of your beliefs -- just wanted to make that clear -- well maybe when i said "martyr" but that's what you'll be unless you stick to non-decorated stuff -- and you're not even practiced up -- you're way ahead of yourself -- just wanting to stir the pot? like you said you know the risk -- you. already. know.
I agree with all of the above responses.
Personally, I believe every business owner has the right to operate as he sees fit and that includes a baker serving whomever he chooses. From many recent lawsuits, however, that doesn't seem to be the case. A California judge did rule in favor of the baker who refused to make a cake for a same sex couple, last week. A first. I really believe the controversy comes in when a big name bakery makes a big deal about refusing to make a particular cake, setting themselves up as a target. If you keep your personal views to yourself and don't make a big deal about it, the situation will more than likely never arrive.
That being said, it wouldn't bother me in the least to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, any more than for a heterosexual couple. When it comes to vulgar cakes, I ain't gonna do it, no way, no how. The judge can send me straight to jail. I just hate them.
Holiday cakes??? I know some religions do not celebrate holidays, but is it really offensive to make a cake celebrating, for instance, Valentine's Day? How about birthdays? You have put so many restrictions upon what you will and will not do, your customer base has already been narrowed down to partically nothing. Why? You have set yourself up to fail before you ever get started.
Along with what has already been said, my suggestion is to be booked when someone wants a design you don't want to do. No need to go into details of why you won't do a perticular design - just simply say something like "sorry I already have more than I can handle for that date"
As kakeladi posted..
I'm on board with all the above and have made gay wedding cakes - you can guarantee the guys are going to want very cool, stylish cakes and money is not problem - I do not make body part/vulgar cakes, ever. I am curious though, what is a holiday or feminist cake?
If you don't want to make any cakes like you described above. Make simple cakes decorated with flowers that will be fast to make and available for customers within 2-3 days of order.
I am a christian too and come from very conservative church. The only cakes I wouldn't do are nudity/adult cakes or writing a nasty messages.
If you want to refuse to do religious/homosexual wedding cakes my suggestion would be to get a good lawyer and read up on bankruptcy law. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes it illegal to discriminate against race, color, religion, or national origin. Discriminating against sexual orientation is illegal in twenty states as well.
I'm not sure your aware of it, but there is a supreme court case pending that will decide this very issue Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission. The ruling will ultimately come down to which ever way Justice Kennedy decides to rule on the matter. Based on his past case history, he has been a supporter of an individual's same-sex right.in short, it doesn't look good for the baker.
I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about on this manner. As long as the request is not vulgar or offensive no religion that I am aware of says to ostracize and discriminate against another human being. As a christian myself, I would like to think that Jesus would have made that cake. It would have been a 6" round, geometrically perfect, visually stunning, and would have fed EVERONE!
Every business has the right to refuse service to anyone - - and it doesn't have to be posted on the door. The way I read this, you're not telling these people their chosen lifestyle is wrong, just that it goes against your personal beliefs. That's all fine and good, but as everyone is telling you, you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit if you make that an issue.
Being booked for the date in question is about the only way out you have, unless you want to give them such an outrageous quote they'll go elsewhere. Although there will undoubtedly be that one that will agree to your outrageous price and then where will you be?
You don't say where you are, which makes a big difference. Personally, I wouldn't make any of those cakes either, but it has never come up in this conservative part of the world. You could always explain that it goes against your personal beliefs, but you would be happy to minimally decorate a cake and they could add whatever embellishments they wish.
I get the idea that you're focusing on an aspect of the business that is actually very unlikely to ever happen. These cases you hear about on the news are really few and far between. Focus more on your pricing and how to quote cakes and don't worry so much about something that may never come up.
"I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about on this manner. As long as the request is not vulgar or offensive no religion that I am aware of says to ostracize and discriminate against another human being. As a christian myself, I would like to think that Jesus would have made that cake. It would have been a 6" round, geometrically perfect, visually stunning, and would have fed EVERONE!"
Very nicely said :-D
this is a bit of an aside but since jesus was mentioned -- one thing I think is so cool is that he made wedding refreshments -- I love that!
wasn't he mentioned? well Christianity was -- close enough ha!
wedding refreshment makers of the world unite or refresh or wed or make -- yeah all of it hahahahah
-K8memphis, have you been drinking too much wine? I don't understand a thing you said! Maybe I'VE been drinking too much wine, haha!
Hahah, too funny...... wish I could have a wine specifically a moscato) but there's a small issue of needing to make a cake for my little girl's 5th birthday tomorrow and the larger issue of a teething bubba who is acting like a sleep stealing parasite at the moment haha.
-K8memphis, have you been drinking too much wine? I don't understand a thing you said! Maybe I'VE been drinking too much wine, haha!
jesus made wine for a wedding -- we make cakes for weddings -- cakers and jesus make/made wedding refreshments
idk -- i do have the flu so i get a by on making sense in the previous post -- but that's the gist of what i said ^^^ wedding refreshments were important to him and us -- in order to include not exclude people --
even though joseph was a carpenter -- it doesn't say that jesus made a chest of drawers or a table although surely he did -- it does say he supplied wine for a wedding --
note to mj -- i got the flu after i sent the package so no worries there --
-K8mempis, you have me rolling in the floor laughing almost every day! I did think that is what you meant, but you have such am entertaining way of expressing yourself! You make my day!
thank you, sandras, fellow volunteer --
jesus also did a fish fry -- just sayin' -- wonder if he made hush puppies
K8 feel better -- you always crack me up!
thank you theresa
What an awesome forum we have here with so much constructive conversation. After thinking on this...
I would say you would be within your right to refuse to do a certain style of cake such as not wanting to do a cake with the gay pride flag, Santa Claus, or a #metoo hashtag on it. That is not discrimination, that is a choice. Just like you might not want to do a body part cake for a bridal shower. However, if you were to refuse to work with certain clients simply due to their sexual orientation, holiday preferences, or stance on gender equality...then that is discrimination. If you would make the cake for a heterosexual couple then it is discriminatory to not make it for a homosexual couple, the Easter Bunny, or Gloria Steinem.
And simply saying "I'm booked" is still discrimination. Think of housing. A black couple is show a home and then told it's already rented when it's actually not. That's racist and it's housing discrimination. The "I'm booked" thing only works a few times and then it becomes and trend and discriminatory.
Good luck to you.
Very well expressed whatthedogate!! Eventually there is a very good chance the "I'm booked" could backfire on your business. People talk. And when it comes up you have done many heterosexual cakes, and always too "booked"/"busy" to do homosexual cakes, people will 2 + 2 and figure it out. If your willing to risk that, then go ahead. As my Mom use to tell me.."If you can live with the consequences of your actions, go right ahead and do it".