Absolutely... I was never attacking you in any way and I am sorrry if you ready it that way. I just like to inform. I know it would suck hard core to get caught and have no idea that you were even breaking any laws and that honestly is the only motive behind my postings.

Running and hiding from it isn't going to help you or anyone else looking for the same info. You could dig into it all and find that you are able to have a business from your home for just a small investment and in that venture you can help to inform others as well.

My only motivation ever behind informing about the laws is to spare someone a knock from the heath department. Trust me... they aren't as nice nor understanding. I know it might sound like a lot of work, but if you truly want this it's very much worth it. That poker cake you made is fabulous and you have the decorating chops to make it.

Chin up... no one here is trying to persecute you in anyway. What you do with the info is entirely up to you, but not offering it would be a travesty in my eyes. To just let someone blindly go at it without warning of the risks they are taking on would be grossly negligent on my part. I know that I appreciated the info when I was first starting out.

I am not running and hiding from anything.

Like I said, I will finish the orders I took deposits for and then put the business venture on hold for years, until I can afford a house.

Right now I live in a condo, and don't have the ability to have another separate kitchen. I have read the laws, and realize I am stuck and there is not much I can do at this point.

Thanks for the info...but originally I just asked about pricing, and then got all this "legality" info. I really didn't want this to be about that.

In fact it would be nice if everyone deleted their posts about the laws and such, so that I could just have what was written about sizing and pricing be relevant to my question.

If people want info about laws and business stuff, they will search it in the forums. I did, and there is tons of info out there already.

I wish people would just stick to the topic that was originally posted (that's all I can say about it).

Thanks for your advice and input. I understand what you are saying.

That's just it though... the legality is deeply ingrained into everything business related. Ideally you would want to be sure to be on the up and up before you start charging for cakes. Friends and family exculded if you ask me. Your friends and family are completely different as they aren't going to say anything to get you into trouble (at least you hope not right... LOL).

Let's face it, if you want to be in business you have to be prepared to hear it all... the good the bad and the ugly. Sorry that it isn't the best news, but I would be doing you a complete disservice to give you pricing info without any mention about the laws.

We also cannot delete any posts once someone has posted below... only mods can do that, but I think the info in this post is helpful and useful to anyone reading it. I don't see a need to delete it.

Do you belong to a church? I only ask because sometimes they have commercial kitchens (you'd have to make sure it was commercial though) that they can rent out and if you are a member of the congregation I'm sure they could work out a per cake sort of a deal with you. Might be a viable way to do this and not have to worry about having a separate kitchen. I'd hate to see you stop alltogether... like I said... you have talent.

When asking about pricing, whether or not you are legal is definitely part of that, since if you're not operating legally the correct price is $0, and if you are legal you need to incorporate the additional overhead involved (license fees, insurance, etc.).

And there's no need to place your dream on hold if you can find a commercial kitchen rental or kitchen incubator in your area...many people here (myself included) who live in areas without cottage food laws do all their for-profit baking out of a commercial kitchen rented from someone else.

Nope.

I can't afford to rent out any space...that's the reason I started doing this to begin with. I lost my job 2 years ago, haven't been able to find anything since that made it worthwhile financially to work outside the home.

I now have a baby and so I am doing all I can to help my family financially.

There's no way I can afford to rent any space, anywhere.

As for the legal stuff....not really. You could easily give someone an idea on what you would charge. You look at the photo and say ...I would charge around this much. Period. Nothing further involved.

I could have been asking how much to be charging my brother-in-law for all anyone knew. Which I was...

I think that it should be deleted. If people want business advice for "legal info" they would ask.

You could have PM'd me, if you felt the "NEED" to inform me.

I agree....the price is $0 if not a legal business.

So, that being said...there's no need to further discuss the issue. The moderator should do their job and have it deleted so that I don't have to read a million responses on an issue that is no longer applying to me.

Thanks

There's a link at the bottom of the thread that says "Stop watching this topic for replies". If you click that link you will no longer be notified by email when someone replies to this thread.

good thank you.

Maybe it doesn't matter to you (on the legal stuff), but to me it does... I would feel terrible if I gave someone pricing advice and they came back here saying the HD got them and fined them when I simple "hey... you might want to look into what it takes to legally operate" could have saved them the entire headache.

ofcourse "legal stuff" matters to me. I was wondering how much was fair to charge my brother-in-law as if he wasn't family. That's why I asked.

You could say..hey look into laws about selling baked goods from your home.
That would have sufficed, yes.

Other people were able to respond without bringing that into it. So if you couldn't respond to the question...without starting a new thread topic..then you should have just passed on posting your responses.

Obviously it matters, as I will not do something "illegal". Watch what you are saying about who "legal" issues matter to.

saramay - please take a deep breath. While some of what was said about your legal status can seem very confronting and as you said, totally off topic, understand that no one here is trying to be malicious.

As was said before, you are very talented. When I saw the picture, I was quite blown away by how great it looked. When you mentioned the price you charged, I was very surprised that you undervalued yourself so much. Like Jason said, if you were ever to consider renting from a commercial kitchen, you could absolutely build that cost into the price and I believe that no one would question you charging top dollar for that cake.

I hope you understand that the people here are only trying to help. And keep coming back to CC. I'd personally love to see anymore cakes you make even if they are just for fun.

I live near Toroto, Ontario and I just sold my first wedding cake. It's a simple cake with three layers (6in, 10in, and 14in). It will have only three folowers and a ribbons around the bottom of each teir. I charged $350.00 for it. The bride just jumped at the price so I know that I didn't charge enough. Next time, I think I will charge $400.00 and see what the reaction is.

Sarah I understand where you are coming from...

I for one don't understand how someone that hasn't gone to the expense and work of getting their "business" legal can come on here and snivel about people attacking them for pointing out the legal route to selling cakes.

ALL DAY this coming Saturday I am required to sit in a Food Managers class that cost me $180.00. The book for the class was an additional $60.00. At the end I have to take a test and if I pass I get a certificate allowing me to keep selling cakes. That is just ONE of the hoops I have to jump through as a legal baker. We won't even talk about the kitchen inspections and licensing/insurance fees.

How fair is it to come on here and ask me how much you should charge for your cakes if you have chosen not to go to the same effort?

I, too, have become incredibly weary of the constant barrage of legal "advice" WHENEVER someone posts a cake pricing question. Don't you legal police have some cakes to make or a business to run? Can we stop making every pricing question a battle on legal vs non-legal? It is truly getting old and I, for one, am tired of hearing the same people say the same things over and over.

I heard it said in another forum that if you don't want business advice then don't post in the business forum. This post was NOT posted in the business forum yet the legal "advice" was still rained down upon the OP.

Please, we've heard enough of it already. Go make some cakes and stop giving advice where it is not needed or wanted.

Or perhaps a new forum should be created for hobbyists only? That way there will be no pricing or legal questions whatsover, correct?

I was just watching this one play out...got heated kind of quick. For the record, I am a hobbyist. =) I think the legality of things in a business question, like pricing, is very important, apparently in Cali, we aren't to sell!! =( Don't want anyone running a cake speak easy?! I can see the divide and who stands where, but I don't understand why? Really...why the divide?! If you choose to acknowledge laws and not adhere to them, thats your right. I believe the OP was met with genuine advice that she didn't want to hear.

Good lord...

I mentioned it in passing and then the op said she hadn't heard of it so I went a little deeper then she got all huffy about it. She is reading a tone into my posts that is not there. It was just a friendly heads up.

Like ot or not Kathy, whether or not it is wanted, legal talk is necessary when someone is talking pricing. It protects everyone involved... the baker especially. I'm certainly not the legal police... I am not going to taddle on her, and I would have left well enough alone had she not started calling me out saying I was being mean. I could have sworn this was in the business section, but it might have been another post I was looking at and I crossed the two.

If you read back... I offered the pricing advice... mentioned the legal aspect quickly... she said she had no idea there were legal ramifications so I offered what little I knew of Canada's food saftey laws. From that point on I was a meanie I guess. I think it all started when she thought I was referring to her as being shady.. I was referring to the other business she referenced selling big three tiered cakes for $100 or less and I thought I cleared that up in a later post. I complimented her decorating skills... offered some advice on alternatives she could look into. Said it would be a shame if she gave up on decorating all together... yeah... such a meanie.

Not that any of this will matter. I'm already labled part of the "legal police" I guess and will forever be shunned.

*sigh*

I think it is fair to suggest someone look into the legalities of what they are doing. As the OP said, she didn't know it wasn't legal to do. So she learned something from the post. It may not have been something she wanted to learn but did.

Once the information is given it is up to the person to do what they will. Instead of saying thank you for the information and going on. Her reply was "You're not squashing my dreams...I only listen to what information I find helpful to my circumstances." and "However, I felt like I was attacked with laws and "rights" and "wrongs" and I do not appreciate that." All because two people suggested that she look into the laws in the area. To me the OP made a bigger issue out the legal information, than those that gave the suggestions.

We don't always like the information we are given, sometimes it down right sucks, and even if you choose not to listen to the information given, it doesn't mean that people shouldn't tell us it.

I did in fact answer her pricing question on starting low and increasing prices, as well as linking to a another post that also give pricing information. So yes, while I did make a suggestion to look into the legal issues, I still give her the original information that she was seeking.

A lot of topics morph into other things. A question on disco dust will often come with a warning that it is not actually edible. Should we stop sharing information that people might not know, because they didn't actually ask for that one thing, even if it is something related to it?

Well said TexasSugar. I think the OP should be thankful for the important information that was given to her. Why be so defensive? Everybody was just trying to help, sheesh.

I know how much it sucks to live where home kitchens aren't licensed, but that doesn't mean that I wasn't happy to find out the laws for my area so that I could avoid being fined for something illegal. Why would someone get mad at the messenger? People here did not make the law, they're just informing others to make sure those people are aware and don't get caught off guard if they are fined. If no one had told me, I'd be at risk of a lot of trouble.

I've spent a lot of time towards renting a commercial kitchen which is about to happen (slowly...why si stuff so slow? lol)...but I've been able to fully sort out pricing on and all of that by watching threads on CC. If hobbyists want to know about pricing, it's easy enough to search on CC pricing threads and see how other people price.

If someone wants to know how to price but isn't a business yet, I'm sure a post like "Hey, I'm a hobbyist working towards opening my own shop. I need help with my pricing structure. How would a price like $300 be for a cake like this?" Then no one needs to jump into licensing rules (already stated that they aren't licensed and are researching) and can just help with pricing structures.

I don't get the anger that comes with people posting legal information. The laws may anger me, but the people who explain them don't, at least not the ones who do it in a helpful manner like we've seen on this thread.

Regardless of how much intention everyone had to help this young baker who has GREAT talent with information, it would have been more simple to state where to find the legal stuff in the forums and how you yourself come up with a pricing system that works for you (supplies, time, fees, utilities,etc.) She simply asked how much you would charge... did not ask for legal advise. Instead of helping this person and encouraging her talent, it seemed as though a swarm of vultures came down to peck her eyes out. When I read the forum, I felt like she was being attacked and then everyone got defensive when they felt like their point wasn't being recieved. It is important to know the legality of baking for others where you live but please ladies, do it a bit more tactfully!!!

Oi vey.

It's been proven day after day that the n00bs asking these questions really don't want the answer, they want to hear that since they opened a box of cake mix, added water then slopped on some icing that mommy and daddy proclaimed "THE BEST CAKE EVAR!!!!!!ELEVENTY!!!!!!!" that they have "talent" and should charge what Buddy charges.

For the record, I didn't see her cake. She deleted the photo. But the thread didn't ask for cake or talent critique. She asked pricing. Advice offered was spot on.



I actually thought this thread was a heck of a lot more kumbayah then they normally are.

I did it tactfully... there was not one point when I wasn't nice and cheerful until she started in on the defensive, and even then... it was her emotions not mine. I ultimately don't care if she decides to run an illegal cake business. It's her life... not mine. I think a lot of tone is being inferred by the readers.

There was one point where we were posting at the same exact time so lines were crossed... and she jumped straight into the defensive stuff about how "some of us take the risks and don't want to be told we should read up on our laws to avoid penalties and fines". That's fine and dandy, but don't get angry at me... I didn't make the laws.

You want to bake for friends and family that's great... you want to branch out into the general public that's your business. But don't get angry when someone tells you something that you don't like. I hate to think that someone could get in trouble due to just not knowing. You can't claim ignorance of the law and get out of the fines.

I answered her original question... I tell pretty much everyone to look into the laws in their state just to be safe. It was not to be mean... it was meant to be nice and neighborly.