Crappy Cake Weekend (I.e. How Not To Do Business)

Business By SusD Updated 8 Jan 2011 , 4:51pm by babypooh

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Ruth0209 Posted 4 Jul 2010 , 3:44pm
post #31 of 56

I suggest you send an e-mail to all of your friends and others who have ordered cakes from you that says something like this.

Now that I've been officially open for business for xx months, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to everyone who has been so supportive of me. I wouldn't be where I am today without your encouragement and the business you have all sent my way. Thank you!

As I learn how to run my new business in the most efficient way, I have found that I need to establish some guidelines for how I accept cake orders. Here is what I'll need from everyone for all future orders.

1. For orders under $75, payment is due in full upon delivery (or at time of order, if that's what you want to do)
2. For orders over $75, 25% is due at the time of the order, with the balance due at the time of delivery (or one week before delivery, or whatever your policy will be)
3. My minimum order is $50 (name your price)
4. Payment may be made with cash, check, or PayPal (or whatever)
5. Please visit my web site for my pricing guidelines (list web site)

Again, thank you all for your generous support of [business name]. I hope I'll have many opportunities to provide sugar creations for the special events in your lives!

Sweet regards,
YOU


I would just list the essential rules here - don't overwhelm them with a bunch of details. This way, you don't have to have "the conversation" with any particular friend, and everyone knows your rules are being applied to everyone. Then, the next time someone orders, you know they've all seen the rules and you can matter-of-factly just say, "Okay, your cake will be $XX. As soon as I have your payment for that, I'll be able to put it on my calendar." You HAVE to deal with people in a businesslike manner, or you'll never be successful and you'll make yourself sick worrying about how to deal with friends.

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CoutureCake Posted 4 Jul 2010 , 6:07pm
post #32 of 56

First, time to "up" your pricing a little... $3 for fondant cake doesn't cover expenses..

Now for the cold hard to hear truth... When you're dealing with friends and family and charging you have to either be willing to let the money go, or you need to be up front on the pricing and getting the money ahead of time, no if's and's or but's about it.. Yes, dealing with people you know can be hurtfull especially when you perceive that "everyone else was invited except me"... I've got that with one group of people I spend a lot of time with, they're all inviting everyone to everyone else's things in the off time and I'm not in the mix. You know what, it's a conscious choice to say "oh well" and move on.. Yea, it would have been fun to go out on the beach/boat this weekend, but you know what, I can't swim, look like a beached whale in a swimsuit, and I'd have to bring my kid along (NO WAY no how with this group given her age).. Again, conscious choice to let it go and move on with MY weekend with whatever we decide to do.

You're starting out at this point and as others have pointed out... "Rookie Mistake" OTOH, it's what you do now that will set the tone for future events. Set your policies on who gets free cake now, who gets "at cost" cake, and who gets regular rates. Don't cut yourself short and above all else, remember that when you're in these situations use your "Big girl pants" if you need to... Not saying that to be crass or cruel, just that it's o.k. to give yourself permission to do what you need to do in order to get PAID!!! Remember you're now a busienss woman, the business may be about the cake, bit it's really about the MONEY.... WIthout MONEY you don't have a business...

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SusD Posted 7 Jul 2010 , 9:11pm
post #33 of 56

Wow! Thank you all, first for your nice comments on my cakes, and second, FANTASTIC advice. I'm working on a contract now and am also thinking up potential dialogues with my friends/clients. They all start with "Let's discuss budget first."

I never in a million years realized what would go into making this into a business. You get that one comment "Oh! You should sell your cakes!" and you think, "Yes, I totally should!" Then you start and you realize that it isn't about the cakes so much as about how you conduct yourself as a business.

I can't wait until I have enough cake orders from strangers that I can tell my friends that "I'm all booked up!"

Thanks again everyone! (and BTW, I did get paid for all 3 cakes... eventually.)

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margaretb Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 7:06am
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spills

I've agreed to do one of my friend's wedding cakes this August, and I'm in the wedding party to boot...gonna be a busy week prior. Anyways, I told her I couldn't do it for free because that'd be crazy, and the only person that's getting a FREE wedding cake is my brother when he gets married thumbs_up.gif So, I even did up a contract for the cake order, which upon seeing it the bride to be and "my friend" exclaimed she was never signing it (she even helped me develop it!!). At that point I pretty much figured I wasn't getting any deposit...and REALLY wondering about the total price I gave her, if I'll see it all... How do you bring something like that up without starting more frustration and possibly damaging what friendship you have?




She refuses to sign the contract? She hasn't given you a deposit? If it were me, I think I would realize RIGHT NOW that I am just going to be too busy as an attendant to get the cake done. So sorry, but you'll have to order elsewhere. I just find it so disrespectful for her to refuse to sign the contract. "I am NOT signing a contract with you, but you can still provide me with cake." Gee, thanks for the favour. Out of curiousity, are you licensed and running a cake business? Or is this a matter of her paying you pretty much just the cost of the cake? If this is your business, then you bring it up by saying you have to have the contract signed for business purposes. If you are just looking to be reimbursed for your costs, then you say you need to get the payment up front so you can purchase supplies. Or maybe say something like, "Bride, I need to talk to you about the cake. If all goes well, it is going to take me about 30 hours [or whatever including your baking and cleaning time] to make your wedding cake. The cake is going to cost $400, and I have to pay a significant amount up front for supplies and equipment. I am very uncomfortable committing the time and resources needed without a signed contract. I have just heard too many horror stories where business matters were ignored in cases like this and friendshps ruined. If I am going to do this cake, I need to handle it in a businesslike manner. If you are uncomfortable with me doing the cake or with making this a business transaction, I will completely understand if you choose to order your wedding cake elsewhere. If you still want me to do it, we need to set up the contract with the details and the payment dates so that I can plan out how to do your cake. I need to know right away where I stand if I am making this cake. If you are not comfortable working with me after all, then you will need to make other arrangments as soon as possible." You mgiht even throw in "I was very hurt when you refused to sign a contract for the cake."

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indydebi Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 1:20pm
post #35 of 56

Spills, did she give any reason for not signing? Has she said anything about the price? I'm just trying to see if she's "hurt" because she helped you with some of your biz stuff and now you are treating her "like a REGULAR person"! ...... or if she's just a b*tch who thinks she's entitled to freebies because she spent 20 minutes helping you with paperwork! icon_rolleyes.gif

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quilting2011 Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 2:28pm
post #36 of 56

I agree. Your cakes are gorgeous. You set the price. You put in alot of hard work to make the cakes.

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thatslifeca Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 2:56pm
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Spills, did she give any reason for not signing? Has she said anything about the price? I'm just trying to see if she's "hurt" because she helped you with some of your biz stuff and now you are treating her "like a REGULAR person"! ...... or if she's just a b*tch who thinks she's entitled to freebies because she spent 20 minutes helping you with paperwork! icon_rolleyes.gif





LOL, indydebi I love how straight to the point you are. You can't help but look up to woman like that. icon_biggrin.gif

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Cookie-Queen Posted 17 Jul 2010 , 6:36pm
post #38 of 56

Your cakes look AMAZING. The love you put into them really shows. I usually tell family and friends how much their cookie order will cost when they place the order. Don't worry everything will work out...and definitely..NO CAKE for those ladies who didn't invite you...how rude!! BIG HUGS!!!

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lillicakes Posted 19 Jul 2010 , 4:13am
post #39 of 56

Advice a friend gave me about giving away professional services, which might also be relevant here:

If you do things free/pro bono/as a gift, prepare a bill anyway. List your regular price, and then if it is a total gift, write off "paid in full" or "With my compliments" or something of that nature.

She made that suggestion to keep in people's minds that what you are doing has value, without you making a song and dance about it. The preparation of invoices is a normal business procedure and it is not unusual for an automated business record keeping system to spit them out somewhat automatically. The personal "write off" and note makes it friendlier while still making a point.

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Pookie59 Posted 20 Jul 2010 , 9:10pm
post #40 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusD

I asked her how she liked it. Well, she said, I had some cake for breakfast. OK, that must mean she likes it since shes eating it for meals. Right? BUT, she went on to say that the edible image tasted like peptol bismol and who really likes fondant anyway???... and this was definitely one of my plainer cakes.




That woman is definitely a "glass is half empty" kind of person. Don't you just hate people who ignore all the good (as they are stuffing their face with cake) and point out the minor imperfections? She needs a kick in the pants.

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LoveMeSomeCake615 Posted 21 Jul 2010 , 4:39am
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth0209

I suggest you send an e-mail to all of your friends and others who have ordered cakes from you that says something like this.

Now that I've been officially open for business for xx months, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to everyone who has been so supportive of me. I wouldn't be where I am today without your encouragement and the business you have all sent my way. Thank you!

As I learn how to run my new business in the most efficient way, I have found that I need to establish some guidelines for how I accept cake orders. Here is what I'll need from everyone for all future orders.

1. For orders under $75, payment is due in full upon delivery (or at time of order, if that's what you want to do)
2. For orders over $75, 25% is due at the time of the order, with the balance due at the time of delivery (or one week before delivery, or whatever your policy will be)
3. My minimum order is $50 (name your price)
4. Payment may be made with cash, check, or PayPal (or whatever)
5. Please visit my web site for my pricing guidelines (list web site)

Again, thank you all for your generous support of [business name]. I hope I'll have many opportunities to provide sugar creations for the special events in your lives!

Sweet regards,
YOU




Oooh, LOVE this, I'm totally stealing this idea! icon_biggrin.gif

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BrightDelights Posted 21 Jul 2010 , 5:02am
post #42 of 56

Sus, your cakes were wonderful. Thanks for sharing your story. I'm just starting out too and have had some similar situations. I will definitely be using some of the advice and verbiage posted.

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duriancheesecake Posted 23 Jul 2010 , 10:06am
post #43 of 56

Like you, my friends are my first customers. I think it's the same for everyone. I like Ruth0209's suggestion. This makes it crystal clear where you stand. After which, some friends may still think they're in the 'inner circle' and are exempt from deposits, payments,etc. Doing business is also about how you project yourself. Put your game face on. If the conversation seems to be steering towards a freebie, steer it back with a comment like "OK, so that's 30 servings at 3 per serving, plus these elaborate decorations and transport, I'm going to estimate the price at XXX. But let me get back to you with the final price" or something to that effect. This allows your friend room to back off graciously when she realises she's not getting a freebie. Friendship is retained (kind of). If she is truly sincere about the transaction, you will also know.

Don't get me wrong, friends are great and so awfully important in our lives. But as friends they should also understand where you stand especially now that it's an official business.

I'm glad you got your money, and perhaps it was a rough week for you personally also. Two kids minus husband is not a great equation. Hats off that you still managed to pull off three great cakes!

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Maynard628 Posted 14 Oct 2010 , 9:28pm
post #44 of 56

I like everyones advice here and Id just like to share things people say to me since they know Ive started getting more orders now for cakes. A sister in law asked If I refer someone to you, can I get a 5% fee? another cousin says Can you give my friend a discount since he has to pay child support another close friend asks Well, shes cutting back on costs, so can you cut her a break.. and another well, I just want a $300 wedding cake.. Man oh man, these people are AMAZING! They ask for discounts, etc, yet these are the people that will buy a cake from a bakery and spent $$$ on a slice!! $6 for a pastry! Purchase Air Jordan shoes for $300+. The $300 wedding cake woman spent $60,000 on her ENTIRE wedding! So, it just amazes me on how close friends and relatives do take advantage of you. You have to be more assertive. Im learning that as I read the posts on this website. LOVE this website!

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granniehelen Posted 14 Oct 2010 , 10:09pm
post #45 of 56

I looked at your photos and then re-read the sentence about the two kids and absent father and decided that you're my hero! It was just a bad week so don't get discouraged. You've definitely got the artistic side down, now just get that pesky business thingy conquered! Hang in there!

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howsweet Posted 14 Oct 2010 , 11:46pm
post #46 of 56

Doing business with friends is a minefield. If you let people know your cakes are in a certain price range, and yours is way too low, and that you can only make 2-3 cakes a week, most of them will get the message. If you're charging enough they'll think twice before ordering something from you and they won't feel right about asking for a $300 cake for free. If they do, treat it like they're asking for $300 from you because that's what it is.

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Maynard628 Posted 15 Oct 2010 , 12:17am
post #47 of 56

I like everyones advice here and Id just like to share things people say to me since they know Ive started getting more orders now for cakes. A sister in law asked If I refer someone to you, can I get a 5% fee? another cousin says Can you give my friend a discount since he has to pay child support another close friend asks Well, shes cutting back on costs, so can you cut her a break.. and another well, I just want a $300 wedding cake.. Man oh man, these people are AMAZING! They ask for discounts, etc, yet these are the people that will buy a cake from a bakery and spent $$$ on a slice!! $6 for a pastry! Purchase Air Jordan shoes for $300+. The $300 wedding cake woman spent $60,000 on her ENTIRE wedding! So, it just amazes me on how close friends and relatives do take advantage of you. You have to be more assertive. Im learning that as I read the posts on this website. LOVE this website!

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Annabakescakes Posted 19 Nov 2010 , 10:16pm
post #48 of 56

I know this is so old, but I just want to say i can sympathize! I told my FIL I would do a cake for cost, and they said that 160 people. I told them .45 a serving and got the check in the mail, and then the future wife (at the time) added a cheesecake grooms cake (decorated) and added she wanted to save the top tier. Do what??? Of course I "ate" the the addition $20, but I also took a HUGE piece home after the wedding! lol! It was so good! And this was not the only gift. We bought an antique table for $40 and had it refinished for $125! Did I mention I am a SAHM to 4 that I homeschool, and my husband makes about twice the minimum wage? We are NOT rolling in money, I am just too nice.

And the not being invited to the party happens ALL THE TIME to me and my kids. I do cakes for a lady that has two daughters who my daughter knows, one is 7, the other is 5, my daughter is 6. I have been doing birthdays for them for 3 years and my daughter has never been invited. We go to church together and chat every time. And she invites girls to her son's party so her girls aren't left out. It is very hurtful. Well, we actually know two families like that, with two girls. I do all the cakes, but my family and I are chopped liver!

Another time I did a HUGE Alice in wonderland cake for 150 for some good (so I thought) friends. I delivered it to my church, where all my friends were milling around! They were all happy to see I did it and were all chatty. My friend saw me the next day and mentioned she didn't see me after I dropped off the cake, and I had to tell her i wasn't invited. HUMILIATING!

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costumeczar Posted 20 Nov 2010 , 7:12pm
post #49 of 56

This happens all. The. Time. The book I wrote about home businesses has an entire section devoted to the topic of dealing with friends and getting payment up front. You just have to treat it like a business if you're running a business, and people seem to find that very difficult to do.

It's funny that there's also the mention of someone not wanting to sign a contract, since that's something I touch on, too. People are so predictable in the ways they try to get out of paying you. icon_rolleyes.gif

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Annabakescakes Posted 20 Nov 2010 , 7:18pm
post #50 of 56

I think I may ask for your book for Christmas, costumeczar!

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costumeczar Posted 20 Nov 2010 , 11:10pm
post #51 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes

I think I may ask for your book for Christmas, costumeczar!




I think I'll write another one and call it How To Get A Backbone And Not Let People Take Advantage Of You. But if I could figure that out I'd be rich.

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Karen421 Posted 21 Nov 2010 , 2:11am
post #52 of 56

Sign me up for that one!!! icon_biggrin.gif

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babypooh Posted 7 Jan 2011 , 11:02pm
post #53 of 56

I was browsing through this site- did not know it was here...I thought that since today is my Birthday, I will be 55 years of age I wanted to share with you and thank you for this moment in time...I just recently started doing cookies..and found out about this site....Many years ago after completing a culinary class...I really wanted to start a business in cake decorating...I was really excited...this was 20 years ago...well what happened was dealing with my friends and church people....my friends wanted to give me the ingredients in lieu of paying me and the first lady and church members thought that every cake they needed should be donated...or some members would actually insult me and order their cake from other places...or get this take my book(I did not know any better) and give the picture to another baker to bake the cake, did I mention these were church members, and the list goes on and on...so when I sat here looking over these posts, I thought about if these people had not been in my life, if I were surrouded with people who could support you and help you, who knows what kind of business I would have had...oh my husband was a deacon and at that time and he would just say it would be ok...but it was never ok..this went on for more years than I want to mention...now I just bake for my grandchildren and charity....thanks for the good reading....

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babypooh Posted 7 Jan 2011 , 11:13pm
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by babypooh

I was browsing through this site- did not know it was here...I thought that since today is my Birthday, I will be 55 years of age I wanted to share with you and thank you for this moment in time...I just recently started doing cookies..and found out about this site....Many years ago after completing a culinary class...I really wanted to start a business in cake decorating...I was really excited...this was 20 years ago...well what happened was dealing with my friends and church people....my friends wanted to give me the ingredients in lieu of paying me and the first lady and church members thought that every cake they needed should be donated...or some members would actually insult me and order their cake from other places...or get this take my book(I did not know any better) and give the picture to another baker to bake the cake, did I mention these were church members, and the list goes on and on...so when I sat here looking over these posts, I thought about if these people had not been in my life, if I were surrouded with people who could support you and help you, who knows what kind of business I would have had...oh my husband was a deacon and at that time and he would just say it would be ok...but it was never ok..this went on for more years than I want to mention...now I just bake for my grandchildren and charity....thanks for the good reading....


By the way, I'm not sad or anything, I just wished this site was there for me when I started out then, I would have gathered a lot of information and would have moved beyond those circumstances....thank God for this site...and for the most incredible people in the business who don't mind sharing but my children and grandchildren reap the benefits and it feels really good (for me) right now, to give occassionally....thanks

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indydebi Posted 7 Jan 2011 , 11:32pm
post #55 of 56

Well, welcome to CC and for joining in the conversations to share your experiences! That's the best part of CC ..... more than the technical knowledge, the how-to's, the best ways to do something .... but sharing our experiences in dealing with people and how they affect us, so that others can know "Ohhhhh! Its NOT just me!" thumbs_up.gif

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babypooh Posted 8 Jan 2011 , 4:51pm
post #56 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Well, welcome to CC and for joining in the conversations to share your experiences! That's the best part of CC ..... more than the technical knowledge, the how-to's, the best ways to do something .... but sharing our experiences in dealing with people and how they affect us, so that others can know "Ohhhhh! Its NOT just me!" thumbs_up.gif


Thank you indydebi.....I must say that you are talented, without a doubt...but you are also soooo funny....I know this is for more important info...but some of your responses are so funny that I can only imagine that you have a great sense of humor... so thanks again to you and to this blog....this is better than most colleges the info you guys share....

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