Hiring Smokers And Legalities

Business By loriemoms Updated 8 Jun 2010 , 1:19pm by loriemoms

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mamawrobin Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 9:00am
post #31 of 56

[quote="Bluehue"]icon_eek.gif goodgrief - you don't have No Smoking Laws where you live.!!!!!

Hi Maxine icon_biggrin.gif Yes WE do, here in Arkansas anyway. It's also illegal to smoke in a car with a child present, can't smoke in restaurants, airports, bus stations, any school campus, on the premises of any hospital or state office, bars, (although some have managed to get a "permit" to allow smoking in their establishments), and many of our workplaces like Kohler don't allow smoking on their premises.

I am also a smoker. I do not smoke in my home or in my car and I don't ever get a break at work so I don't even smoke there. icon_lol.gif I have never heard of a smoker getting "more breaks" at any workplace. Is it just me? Has anyone else ever heard of this? I'm just curious because I just found that rather odd.

I also agree with whoever posted about "pet hair". I use to work with a baker that had cats. You could see the cat hair on her clothes and she smelled like CAT. I find that way more offensive than cigarette smoke.
Just like people that don't smoke can smell the "nasty smell" of stale cigarette smoke, people that don't own pets can often smell the "evidence of ownership" on someone that does.

I also agree with vonnie222 about perfume. I find that offensive as well. I hate being waited on by someone that reeks of it.

To the op. I think you should have the right to hire a non smoker if that's what you want. thumbs_up.gif

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Texas_Rose Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 9:55am
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin

I have never heard of a smoker getting "more breaks" at any workplace. Is it just me? Has anyone else ever heard of this? I'm just curious because I just found that rather odd.




You won't see it as much at a grocery store and maybe not at a restaurant, but at little stores it's really common for the smokers to go outside for a smoke break between customers. Or if you work somewhere that isn't cool with that, then you see the smokers offering to sweep up outside or change the outside trash, so that they can go outside to smoke.

Back when I was first married and a smoker, I worked for a big church. We weren't allowed to smoke on campus, not even in our cars, so we would climb the ladder to the roof and smoke inside the air conditioning enclosure. That was actually a lot of fun icon_biggrin.gif

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loriemoms Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 10:54am
post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by all4cake

If you ban everything due to anyone and everyone's sensitivities, then anyone owning a pet shouldn't be hired or allowed in either...talk about something that sticks to everything...pet hair! Not being serious...just making a point.

One employee's best friend was her dog that lived inside with her, slept with her, ate with her...she wore half the dog's hair into work with her daily. In the winter, her fleece jacket/overshirt was LOADED with it. Yeah...and she was the baker/icing maker. I love my Bear but not so much that I want his hair on my clothes 24-7.




oh yeck! It has become quite common around here for people to bring their dogs shopping and place them in the basket where you put your child. I haven't seen it luckily in grocery stores, but I have a lot in other types of stores, like Micheal's and book stores and such. I don't understand why people think this is ok, as many of us are allergic. Is this now allowed in stores?

btw, my doctors office has signs with the no perfumes allowed. My DH cannot go into a candle store or those little gift shops because of the smells either!

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nelikate Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 11:19am
post #34 of 56

I'm located in Melbourne, Australia and as far as I understand we have to provide a safe covered location for smokers to have their break. We do not have to provide special breaks for smokers - non smokers & smokers alike get the same breaks.

I'm a smoker and an office manager. My staff (and I) get a 1 hour break each day. They can take a 15min break in the morning & afternoon and a 1/2 hour lunch break or a 1 hour lunch break. If they want extra breaks, they either get docked or work overtime. I abide by these rules also and am upfront about what I expect.

If I was in food prep I wouldn't allow smoke breaks unless they washed, freshened up and did not wear the same clothes back in - ie take off apron, change jumper or put on a jacket which is not brought back into the kitchen/shop. (this is what I do at home when cooking dinner or cake)

Nel

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KHalstead Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 11:49am
post #35 of 56

I just wanted to add that when I was in high school I worked at McDonald's and a guy got fired because he smelled.........not like cigarette smoke, but like body odor! He was given 3 warnings about it and was even offered (by the manager) some deodorant and cologne and refused. He was fired and said he was going to sue McDonalds for it..........turned out HE COULDN'T....they had every right to fire him (because it wasn't a "protected" class in employment the way religion and sex are)

I would think that would fall under the same section of the law as someone smelling like smoke.........and I totally agree with you (I'm a former smoker) and I would NEVER want a smoker working for me or handling my products!

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indydebi Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 11:54am
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin

You could see the cat hair on her clothes and she smelled like CAT. I find that way more offensive than cigarette smoke.


omg, I SO agree with you on this one! I'd rather smell cigar smoke on someone than the smell of animal.

Worked with a woman who would complain that she couldnt' get up in the morning because her 3 (!) dogs were on top of her and she needed her hubby's help to "unbury" her from the dogs so she could get up.

And she SMELLED like she slept with dogs! Nasty!

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Kiddiekakes Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 11:59am
post #37 of 56

I am a Non smoker and I absolutely dislike smoking for the reasons many have stated in previous posts..We too have very strict rules about smoking here in Canada also but there are always a few who don't abide.I found it astounding and humorous when I was at the hospital in March when hubby was in for 2 weeks...I went outside to use my cell phone and patients..yes...patients in gowns rolling their IV's around were standing outside smoking...no staff but I mean here they are in the hospital for something obviously serious and they are outside smoking...I shook my head in disgust and chuckled at the same time...I don't get it! icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif I won't even hug my BIL because he reeks so bad of smoke...You can't tell a potential employee that you won't hire them because of the fact they smoke (That is against the charter of human rights here) But you don't have to hire them and just say they didn't fit the credentials..If I were an employer I wouldn't hire what I felt was not appropriate candidates.You just have to be careful how you word it!! thumbs_up.gif

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cakegrandma Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 12:03pm
post #38 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by vonnie222

I have chemical sensitivies, and I'm a non-smoker. I can usually tolerate the smell of cigarette smoke better than I can perfume. Or other scented products like candles, potpourri, bath oil and powder, laundry detergent, fabric softeners, cleaning supplies, room and carpet deodorizers, etc, etc, etc. You get the picture. So, for me personally, if you ban smoking in and around your establishment, you also need to ban perfume.

It's not only those of us with chemical sensitivites out there, many chemo patients, pregnant women, and people with respitory diseases are affected by smoke and scented products. I ask all of you to place a nice sign on your front doors asking customers to please not wear scented products into your establishment due to allergies of employees and other customers. Along with a no smoking withing 25 feet sign that should help with the offensive smells from cigarettes and perfumes. You, as the business owner has the right to decide what you will and will not allow in your business not only from your employees but from your customers.




If you ask customers that smoke or wear perfumes to not to do so prior to coming into your establishment, I feel someone would raise a discrimination suit against you. I agree about smoke and strong perfumes, however, you are also telling the clientele that you do not want them in the establishment and that will get around and you will lose business.
I agree that you should tell the prospective new worker that you have certain rules when you work and you could even give them a sheet of paper listing the most important, i.e. being a non-smoker and wearing of strong perfumes, punctuality, being tardy xxx amount of times will result in termination with the initial employment application. When they have filled everything out and you do the interview you can ask if they have read it and is there anything they do not agree to. This may help eliminate those that do smoke. Also you can not write anything on their app such as; smoker, looks unkempt, smelly etc. However, you can write a letter such a s A, B, or C, maybe use S for smoker. If you do hire someone and they are doing things like not being on time or calling out regularly, write down everything and date that you discuss their habits with them and have them sign it. This will most likely eliminate unemployment charges against your account, at least by them.
evelyn

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noahsmummy Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 12:18pm
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

icon_eek.gif goodgrief - you don't have No Smoking Laws where you live.!!!!!

Here in Australia there is NO SMOKING in any workplace - It is now against the Law
We cannot smoke in Hotels - Bars - Restaurants - Shops - Trains - Buses -Halls - Train Stations - actually - we cannot smoke anywhere - exept in our own garden or house if one wishes to do so.
If you smoke in the street and you get caught throwing your butt away - its a $100.00 on the spot fine.

Here in the West it is illegal to smoke in a car whilst children are travelling with you.
That incurs a $150.00 on the spot fine and you loose 3 points off your license. (we have 12 points on our license - and for every infringement you loose x ammount...loose all 12 - and you have no license.)


I throw my hand up to being a smoker - but never inside - never whilst cooking for my family or caking -
Its just the Law - the same as having ones hair up and covered whilst caking - so it comes natural to us.

We are not allowed to discrimminate against smokers when it comes to hiring and firing - but like chefs in restaurant kitchens - they can go outside as long as they take there chef jackets off - so as not to bring the stale smoke chef's jacket back into the food area.

Anybody who goes outside for what ever reason should wash their hands properly anyway when coming back in side - that would be just common sense .............................
but then we all know - common sense isn't so common icon_rolleyes.gif


Bluehue.




same here in NSW; they are just rolling out no smoking in any public places, including footpaths, at the moment, if you want to smoke at a bus stop, you must be at least 3 metres away from it.No smoking on hospitals gorunds what so ever, no smoking witkids in the car, and the throwing away of the but, attracts a $250 on the spot here i think??

i agree though. ive never understood why smokers feel entitled to extra breaks? does that mean that when i get stressed at work i can have 10 mins here and there to go bake a cake and "calm my nerves?" icon_confused.gif

once again, not offend the smokers, (i used to be one before my son actually), alot of them take it very much to heart if you criticize their habit.. which very much annoys me when they are putting others in danger, especially children! (yes i am that crazy lady who runs around lecturing everyone if you have the nerve to light up in front of my son, or any other child for that matter!!)

in short, no way would i hire them. they stink from a mile away and its yuck. i would find another reason as to why i couldnt hire them tho (availabilty maybe?), just to protect myself from an anti discrimination suit..

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indydebi Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 12:34pm
post #40 of 56

When I was a manager in corporate, I'd tell my non-smoking employees they were entitled to just as many smoke breaks as their smoking co-workers. They could grab a coke and a bag of chips and go outside for a break when they could (phone coverage was mandatory, of course).

my husband worked at a place where a non-smoking employee was told he couldn't be outside with the smokers on a "smoke break" because he didn't smoke. This employer didn't curtail the smokers breaks but penalized the non-smokers if they took the same number of breaks! (The underlying message? "I guess I'll have to take up smoking if I want to be treated equal" and then the employer wonders why their health benefits cost so much! Crazy-making, isn't it?)

I also worked at places where you got a lunch hour and a morning and afternoon 15 min break and if you wanted to smoke, that's when you smoked.

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Bluehue Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 3:30pm
post #41 of 56

Hope whoever you hire in business whether a smoker or non smoker - they know how to wash their hands correctly after visiting the bathroom.

I am sickened at the lack of cleanliness in females bathroom when i constantly see females run their finerTIPS under cold water for a whole 3 seconds - then proceed to wipe their apparently clean hands on their clothes. icon_eek.gificon_cry.gif

And we wonder why people get sick -..............*shudder*



Bluehue.

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indydebi Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 3:33pm
post #42 of 56

Blue, I had a rule in my shop that my crew had to wash their hands UPON ENTERING the kitchen. I dont' care how many times they claimed to have washed their hands while in the ladies room and I don't care if they washed their hands in the ladies room just 5 seconds ago. If I didnt' see you do it, then it doesn't count. You enter my kitchen, you wash your hands.

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Bluehue Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 3:51pm
post #43 of 56

*faint* - another female who thinks walong the same lines as me. icon_smile.gif

People say i am excessive when it comes o washing my hands - correctly - but my answer to them is - i do not get sick and i do not serve contaminated food.
Its that simple.

As ooon as i walk through my door i wash my hands - that way i know that what ever i have bought through that door goes down the plughole with hot soapy water.

Most people just don't want to know that if they just washed their hands correctly they wouldn't even contract a cold - let alone ever other gut wrenching bug thats out there....

And whilst i am going right off topic here -

Remember when we were all told ........................
"Wash your hands please and come to the table your dinner is ready"

When did that go out of fashion? icon_confused.gif

Even as guests in other peoples homes - dh and i seem to be the only ones who do that anymore.............. icon_surprised.gif

Hmmmm, think i feel a whole other thread stating icon_wink.gif


Bluehue.

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snocilla Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 4:12pm
post #44 of 56

If Hooter's can hire based on the size clothes someone wears, and how pretty someone is, you can surely hire based on whether or not a person chooses to smoke. You may have to specify something in the job requirements about a no-smoke smell or something, but it's got to be legal.

I just saw something recently about a size extra-small Hooter's girl who was told she was gaining weight and if she didnt lose it in 2 months she would be fired. And corporate Hooter's is standing behind the franchise saying the the job requirements specify a certain look that the girls must maintain.

If they can do that, you can certainly say they must maintain a pleasant and clean smell.

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loriemoms Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 8:10pm
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

Hope whoever you hire in business whether a smoker or non smoker - they know how to wash their hands correctly after visiting the bathroom.

I am sickened at the lack of cleanliness in females bathroom when i constantly see females run their finerTIPS under cold water for a whole 3 seconds - then proceed to wipe their apparently clean hands on their clothes. icon_eek.gificon_cry.gif

And we wonder why people get sick -..............*shudder*



Bluehue.




I KNOW! I see it all the time! Or they stop by the sink to check their hair and dont wash thier hands!!!

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loriemoms Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 8:10pm
post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Blue, I had a rule in my shop that my crew had to wash their hands UPON ENTERING the kitchen. I dont' care how many times they claimed to have washed their hands while in the ladies room and I don't care if they washed their hands in the ladies room just 5 seconds ago. If I didnt' see you do it, then it doesn't count. You enter my kitchen, you wash your hands.




Thats a great idea!!

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indydebi Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 8:16pm
post #47 of 56

loriemoms, I had one girl come out of the restroom and didn't wash up, so I asked her, "Did you wash up?" She told me, "Oh I didnt' do anything!" (meaning no 'bodily function' performance in there!). I reminded her the restroom was the least sanitized room in the building and it didn't matter if she "didn't do" anything or not ..... wash up! icon_mad.gif

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Rose_N_Crantz Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 8:41pm
post #48 of 56

The store I work at now used to have a "smoker's" break room. It was totally closed off and that's where the smoker's would take their break. Then a law passed that said there could be no smoking in any public building. So now they have to go outside ON THEIR BREAKS to smoke. If they work 4-5.99 hours, they get one 15 minute break. If scheduled over 6 hours, it's a 30 minute lunch and two 15 minute breaks. Those are the only times they are permitted to smoke.

Now the restaurant I worked at before this job did not have any kind of a break policy (not that I knew of anyway, I was a dumb teenager who didn't think to ask about it). The only break that I heard we could take was the closers were able to sit and eat after the dinner rush. However the back door to the kitchen was opened almost every hour on the hour to allow the smokers to go out and smoke. A couple of the managers used to sit in their office, which was just off of the kitchen, and smoke. If there was a closed section, servers and managers would go there to smoke. Finally we got a new general manager that detested smoking and said there would be one time the door would open for smoke breaks, and that's after the dinner rush. No other time. If you miss that door opening then too bad.

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thin4life Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 10:50pm
post #49 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluehue

icon_eek.gif goodgrief - you don't have No Smoking Laws where you live.!!!!!

Here in Australia there is NO SMOKING in any workplace - It is now against the Law
We cannot smoke in Hotels - Bars - Restaurants - Shops - Trains - Buses -Halls - Train Stations - actually - we cannot smoke anywhere - exept in our own garden or house if one wishes to do so.
If you smoke in the street and you get caught throwing your butt away - its a $100.00 on the spot fine.

Here in the West it is illegal to smoke in a car whilst children are travelling with you.
That incurs a $150.00 on the spot fine and you loose 3 points off your license. (we have 12 points on our license - and for every infringement you loose x ammount...loose all 12 - and you have no license.)


I throw my hand up to being a smoker - but never inside - never whilst cooking for my family or caking -
Its just the Law - the same as having ones hair up and covered whilst caking - so it comes natural to us.

We are not allowed to discrimminate against smokers when it comes to hiring and firing - but like chefs in restaurant kitchens - they can go outside as long as they take there chef jackets off - so as not to bring the stale smoke chef's jacket back into the food area.

Anybody who goes outside for what ever reason should wash their hands properly anyway when coming back in side - that would be just common sense .............................
but then we all know - common sense isn't so common icon_rolleyes.gif


Bluehue.




Hats off to Australia!!! In the United States each state has their own smoking laws then it breaks down to each county in each state. Wisconsin is going smoke free on July 5th, I can't wait. Nothing is more disgusting than walking into a restaurant and smelling cigarette smoke, and the people who are smoking could care less about us non smokers.

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Melvira Posted 7 Jun 2010 , 11:20pm
post #50 of 56

I'm a reformed smoker. I've been 'clean' for ten years this December. icon_lol.gif In Iowa we blessedly have laws about smoking 'in public'. I cannot stand the smell of smoke. I can't stand sitting next to my sister, the avid smoker since she was 12. I also can't stand her cough. It breaks my heart and makes me wish she would wise up. I guess we're all entitled to ruin our health however we see fit, as long as you don't do it close to those who are not legally able to make the decision on their own, then do what you want. icon_rolleyes.gif When I see someone smoking in a car with a child in it, I want to immediately call DHS and have the child removed. Just my PERSONAL opinion. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you smoke, but don't do that to a child. That shows a serious lack of intelligence and sensitivity. But believe me, I know that you can show those qualities while being a non-smoker as well!

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Loucinda Posted 8 Jun 2010 , 3:21am
post #51 of 56

I am one who is extrememly sensitive to perfumes. I find most of them sickening...they give me an extreme headache, sometimes to the extent of a migrane. I don't liike the smell of smoke, but it doesn't affect me like the perfumes do. (not sure why that is??) I have never smoked, and can always smell it on those who do.

I really hated when they did away with the non smoking part of restaurants, that was my only way of getting to enjoy a dinner out without having to deal with unruly kids. Even though I didn't smoke, it was worth it to me to set there to have the peace and quiet!

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tesso Posted 8 Jun 2010 , 3:49am
post #52 of 56

I wish they had the no smoking laws when I was growing up. both parents smoked two packs each a day!! about killed me.

I am EXTREMELY allergic to perfume and cigarettes, hair products etc. A week or so ago, i ended up in the ER due to asthma from my trees blooming. Got to work the next day and a woman had perfume on so strong, I had a horrible asthma attack when she walked in the door. I left work and came back AFTER she left. My work has a no perfume, basically any strong smelling anything policy. because it is close proximity. It's an office. She just chose to ignore it. Not any more, now they are writing people up, who flagrantly disregard the policy.

I am so allergic to cigarette smoke that someone who has been smoking can walk by me and I will have an asthma attack. My boss is great, and has my desk located in the smoker free zone. icon_biggrin.gif

when I interview for a job, I let them know I dont smoke. I thought most people did that now icon_confused.gif

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mamawrobin Posted 8 Jun 2010 , 4:05am
post #53 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Blue, I had a rule in my shop that my crew had to wash their hands UPON ENTERING the kitchen. I dont' care how many times they claimed to have washed their hands while in the ladies room and I don't care if they washed their hands in the ladies room just 5 seconds ago. If I didnt' see you do it, then it doesn't count. You enter my kitchen, you wash your hands.




When I was the manager of a restaurant I would do the same with the waitresses and kitchen crew. I told them that since I had to post a sign in the restroom saying "employees must wash hands before returning to work"
I felt better KNOWING that they did.

BTW...I remember when we first had to post that sign in the restroom.. icon_surprised.gificon_eek.gif I actually couldn't believe that someone had to be TOLD to wash their hands after going to the restroom. icon_razz.gif

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Loucinda Posted 8 Jun 2010 , 12:03pm
post #54 of 56

I think my girls were the only ones at their high school that weren't allowed to have hair spray in their house! If they wanted to use it, they had to go outside to spray it. That stuff will set me off in a heartbeat! If the neighbor's bathroom window is open and she uses it, I can smell it here. I hate having that sensitivity to stuff. I am not sure if the reason the cigarettes don't affect me the same is because I grew up with a Dad who literally smoked 2 packs a day??

And the hand washing.....it amazes me the people who blow that off. icon_eek.gif That is one of the first things we teach the kids here. WARM water and soap and say your ABC's 2 times before you are done! thumbs_up.gif

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adonisthegreek1 Posted 8 Jun 2010 , 1:02pm
post #55 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvira

...When I see someone smoking in a car with a child in it, I want to immediately call DHS and have the child removed. Just my PERSONAL opinion. I'm not saying you're a bad person if you smoke, but don't do that to a child. That shows a serious lack of intelligence and sensitivity. But believe me, I know that you can show those qualities while being a non-smoker as well!




I was shocked when mamawrobin said that in Arkansas you can't smoke in the car with kids. Michigan just banned smoking in restaurants. If we went a step farther, people would really be balking, but I am all for it. My daughter has been telling me that one of the little girls in her classroom comes to school everyday smelling of smoke, and none of the kids want to play with her. I feel so bad for that child. She's only 7, and her mother's own selfish needs are affecting the child's health and social status.

I am sensitive to everything, so I would never hire anyone who smoked or wore perfumes. I would let that be know upfront, because those things set my allergies off really bad.

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loriemoms Posted 8 Jun 2010 , 1:19pm
post #56 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawrobin

Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Blue, I had a rule in my shop that my crew had to wash their hands UPON ENTERING the kitchen. I dont' care how many times they claimed to have washed their hands while in the ladies room and I don't care if they washed their hands in the ladies room just 5 seconds ago. If I didnt' see you do it, then it doesn't count. You enter my kitchen, you wash your hands.



When I was the manager of a restaurant I would do the same with the waitresses and kitchen crew. I told them that since I had to post a sign in the restroom saying "employees must wash hands before returning to work"
I felt better KNOWING that they did.

BTW...I remember when we first had to post that sign in the restroom.. icon_surprised.gificon_eek.gif I actually couldn't believe that someone had to be TOLD to wash their hands after going to the restroom. icon_razz.gif




In our state, we are suppose to post how to wash your hands at every hand sink. I was like HOW to wash your hands!?! That is wild. But it is true, people don't know how to wash their hands. And it does work. I have customers come in to pick up cakes with kids with runny noses and consultations with people who had the flu. I think because I wash my hands a million times a day I have been lucky and not caught anything...
It is so something so simple..why are people not wanting to do it?

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