What Do You Think Of This Price?
Decorating By giggysmack Updated 11 Mar 2010 , 1:49pm by Bread_n_Buttercream
I was asked to do a Topsy Turvy for a friend of a friend. I told her the "friend price" of $200 or around there. She thanked me and said it was out of her budget of $80 (I said we could do something simpler, but she wanted topsy turvy) and she had someone in the city who would do it for her. Ok, no biggie.
A few weeks later I see her and asked how the cake went. I inquired about the topsy turvy part, and she said it was ok. "It was more like a sheet cake with topsy turvy COLORS."
LOL! Exactly what are "topsy turvy colors"???
Giggle....I know crazy, I should advertise a sheet cake with "topsy turvy colors" a 3d sheet cake with a picture of a "3d mustang", and a 3 tiered sheet wedding cake ....hmmm......sheet cake on a 3 cake pedestals.
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Dear $80 baker,
There's a lesson here for all you folks who think that selling a cake for cost/cheap/newbie learning price (whatever you call your underpricing) will give you experience/portfolio pics/a future loyal customer base:
The only results of this situation are:
1. one baker lost money and time making a $500 (+ or -) cake for $80.
2. every other real baker lost the opportunity for a real job.
3. one more client (and everyone she tells) is now under the unalterable assumption that she can get a cake like that for $80 if she just looks around long enough to find an insecure newbie baker.
I don't mean to come across in a negative way, but when I read this I was a little ticked off! First of all, I'm sure that you started out just like everyone else... a newbie! Everyone starts at the same place in this biz, and that is not knowing a thing and having to learn! Now to address your opinions of the results:
1. if he/she wants to do it for cost...so be it, frankly you can't be upset that someone isn't worried about making a profit.
2. what gives you the right to decide who is and who isn't a "real baker"?
3. just because someone charges less than you think should be charged for a cake doesn't give you the right to call them an "insecure baker".
If you want to charge $500 for a cake, great! Congrats, that's your business... but if this person wants to charge $80, then you have
absolutely no say so. I feel this way because I live in a small town... I don't live in Chicago or New York... the people I service are not in the market for a $500 birthday cake... but they have the same right to a beautiful work of art.
And no, I'm not the $80 baker 
[
I don't mean to come across in a negative way, but when I read this I was a little ticked off! First of all, I'm sure that you started out just like everyone else... a newbie! Everyone starts at the same place in this biz, and that is not knowing a thing and having to learn!
...
If you want to charge $500 for a cake, great! Congrats, that's your business... but if this person wants to charge $80, then you have
absolutely no say so. I feel this way because I live in a small town... I don't live in Chicago or New York... the people I service are not in the market for a $500 birthday cake... but they have the same right to a beautiful work of art.
And no, I'm not the $80 baker [/quote]
This is one of the problems in the way that new decorators think about it, though...If you can create a $500 cake, then you should be charging $500. an $80 cake, charge $80. There's a difference in quality. Regardless of whether you're a "newbie" or not, if you can produce it, you can charge for it. A newly licensed plumber doesn't charge less to fix your clogged drain just because his license is new if he's doing the same work as someone more established.
As far as the "small town" thing goes, Pfffft... If you think that people aren't in the market for that price point, of course, not a lot of people are. But they do exist, and if you market yourself correctly they'll find you and you can start making one $500 cake a week instead of 20 $25 cakes. That's totally up to you.
And I say all this with Looooveee... 
I don't know what it is about this week but I've had 3 other customers send me photos of cakes and when I send them back the quote it has'nt even come close to their budget. Maybe people are thinking I'm having a Christmas clearance sale!!!
I don't know what it is about this week but I've had 3 other customers send me photos of cakes and when I send them back the quote it has'nt even come close to their budget. Maybe people are thinking I'm having a Christmas clearance sale!!!
But but but, they DESERVE it! It's your job to do an expensive cake cheap, because everyone DES-ERVESSSS it! Gag. 
Not said with love. Said out of sheer frustration. 
Yes if someone makes a cake and charges cost for it it is not my place to say. However, The customer did say to me it was a "company" that quoted her this price. Which company I don't know. The real problem is when people think they can get a cake like this for this price it really cheapens what they value for my time. Pretty much what do you get paid an hour? Do you not feel I should get paid the same?
the people I service are not in the market for a $500 birthday cake... but they have the same right to a beautiful work of art
this line right here... utter nonsense. I do understand what you are getting at. BUT... if they aren't in the market for a $500 birthday cake... then they can order the $80 birthday cake. However... it doesn't mean that a decorator has to make the $500 cake for $80. No way. I live in a small town too and believe me, while *I* wouldn't spend $200+ on a birthday cake, there are people who will. No one is saying you MUST charge this, but to make that cake pictured for $80... the baker would be losing money... or making $.20/hour. Now I can't change that, but I can say that it's stupid to do so. If they want to do this as a hobby rock on... but if they are selling (or giving away) cakes to the general public then cake decorating is no longer a hobby for them... they are in business, and probably not legally. When you (not you specifically Kelli) severely undercut everyone's prices you are hurting the business on the whole. It does effect me, and while I can't do much about it, I can most cerainly be miffed when it happens because it instantly devalues my time and *that* pisses me off.
Editted for spelling mistakes
Hee hee, I had a feeling that someone else would pick up on the "deserves a beautiful cake" comment. I didn't even want to touch that one! Nicely done Jeanne and Jamie 
Yes, you should all get paid for your time. You should get paid what you want to charge for the cake.
Would I have charged $80 for that cake???? NO! But I, for one, isn't so stuck on myself that I would call someone a wannabe (which is basically what was being said).
Do I think quality cost? Yes!!!!
Was the $80 cake most likely a disaster???? Yes!!!
But the arrogance of saying that someone charging less than you is taking a "real job away from a real baker" is just plain rude!
But the arrogance of saying that someone charging less than you is taking a "real job away from a real baker" is just plain rude!
Why? 
And why is it arrogant?
I was asked to do a Topsy Turvy for a friend of a friend. I told her the "friend price" of $200 or around there. She thanked me and said it was out of her budget of $80 (I said we could do something simpler, but she wanted topsy turvy) and she had someone in the city who would do it for her. Ok, no biggie.
A few weeks later I see her and asked how the cake went. I inquired about the topsy turvy part, and she said it was ok. "It was more like a sheet cake with topsy turvy COLORS."
LOL! Exactly what are "topsy turvy colors"???
OMG! I was thinking the same thing. lol.
In my opinion someone charging $80 for a cake of that detail is not a "real baker" Yes they may be a baker and a real person. But a person or company who was treating the profession like a real profession would not charge $80 for that cake.
nobody has a "right" to a beautiful-piece-of-art-cake. If they have the money to pay for it, then they have the same "right" as anyone else who has the money to pay for it.
What people define as their "rights" just blows me away sometimes.
I have a "right" to my freedom, a "right" to pursue my own happiness, and a "right" to life.
I don't have a "right" to have a Weinstock cake if I can't afford it.
because if that's how it works, I'm heading down to the Cadillac dealership tomorrow and informing them of my "right" to own an Escalade, even tho' I dont' have $50,000 for one. 
Look, if someone wants to charge "cost" for their cakes to get themselves established.... great for them. My opinion is that it IS arrogant to say someone isn't a "real baker" because they are trying to build their business/portfolio. (Their words not mine).... Frankly I don't believe any company did THAT cake for $80.... I figure it was either an individual getting started, or the customer fibbed a bit. But that point is irrelevant really, that's not what got to me.
I've looked through a lot of post on CC...and for the most part everyone is helpful. This is a great site for newbies just learning this trade, and oldies wanting to keep up with the latest trends. If everyone knew everything right out of school, there wouldn't be a need for this site. But once in a while I would run across one of these "holier than thou" post like this. Someone thinking that a person trying to build themselves up is lower than the gum on the bottom of their shoe! Just wanted to remind everyone..... we all put our pants on one leg at a time (no matter how smart/talented/ we think we are)
because if that's how it works, I'm heading down to the Cadillac dealership tomorrow and informing them of my "right" to own an Escalade, even tho' I dont' have $50,000 for one.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, though I'll probably go and pick out a little BMW for myself. 
No it isn't rude... someone who is doing this for a hobby vs someone who depends on cakes to pay the bills is COMPLETELY different. Someone basically playing professional cake decorator and selling cakes for pennies on the dollar hurts everyone who actually does do this for a living. They would hurt you too because they instantly devalue the time and effort you put into a custom cake.
Hobby bakers should not sell to the public. For reasons of legality #1, and because they have no idea what they are doin tothe local market. Theyhaven't taken the time to sit and think "I am making $.02 and hour making this cake". They see $2 cake mix, $.06 for eggs, $4 for sugar, $4 for butter... sll for $80 and I am making a profit". Ummm... no... they aren't, and if they took the time to sit down and figure it out they would see that.
It's not being stuck on one's self... it's being smart about it. Business sense. If someone wants to make a few bucks for the hours they put into a cake that is on them. Let them make cakes for their family and friends for cost. No one cares about that. But don't devalue my time.
I don't know about you, but if I was making cakes for pennies... I would appreciate the slap in the face to wake up and smell the potential profit I was tossing away. And it would weigh on me knowing that I was potentially harming someone's livelyhood. That to me is much more rude. Yes we are all "real bakers" regardless of if we are in business or not, but replace that line with "taking a real job away from someone who depends on decorationg to pay the bills" and suddenly it's not so offensive, and that is how it was meant.
(and please don't take this as having any aggression behind it. It's all just discussion to me)
I totally get what you are trying to say Kelli... not everyone can charge the big bucks right out of the gate and I know that. And yes you may need to charge less if your skills are up to snuff, or you aren't confident enough, or you live in a teeny twon and people don't yet understand the true value of a custom cake, or whatever your reason. (again not you specifically) But if you are going to portfolio build with your clientelle... let them know the full price up front. Let them know what a killer deal you are giving them. If you don't, they will fight you tooth and nail when you finally do get the balls to raise your prices. It'll be "why is this cake $200? You charged me $60 for the same thing 6 months ago!!!". Then you will have to establish yourself all over again.
I am all for people getting into the business... just make sure you are doing it in a way that doesn't harm the people who have already forged their way.
I think you got so caught up in the phrase "real baker". Like we are poo-pooing hobby bakers or people who are just starting off like they can't bake and decorate so that is why they only charge $.50/slice. Not so at all, and I hope you can see that.
Dear From Scratch,
What you said makes sense... I totally understand what you are saying. Believe me, I'm in a small town...and do have problems with the same issues. Note, the quality is much lower, and it usually only takes 1 cake for them to come crawling back licking their wounds from a "cake wreck".
I guess it was the way the post came across that really got to me. And after going back and reading it again.... I'm still picking up on the same key phrases that pushed my buttons....as a person....not a baker.
Not taken as aggression in any way, as far as I'm concerned it just a discussion.
Kelli,
I'm sorry you feel insulted by my post. And my choice of the words, "real baker" were poorly chosen. I never meant to say that anyone wasn't a "real baker."
What I would have said if I had given it more thought at the time was, "established, professional baker" as opposed to "someone breaking into the business".
So I would retract any tone that came across as condescending. Past that, for reasons others here have illuminated, I stand by my post and the message I intended to deliver.
because if that's how it works, I'm heading down to the Cadillac dealership tomorrow and informing them of my "right" to own an Escalade, even tho' I dont' have $50,000 for one.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, though I'll probably go and pick out a little BMW for myself.
I'll go for my right to an Aston Martin convertible, maybe a nice blue color. Oh, here's my $50 for that.
No need to apologize... I'm sorry for taking something you wrote out of context. I guess it's hard to tell exactly how someone means something when you're reading it.
I guess I still consider myself a newbie too.... but have spend a small fortune getting started... so it struck a nerve. And I still stick to my guns that offering quality cakes in my area for less than an arm and a leg is what I need to do.
And it's quite funny that the cadillac thing has come up.... worked at a Chevrolet/Cadillac dealership! LOL.... So I guess I'm still stuck in my car salesman mode maybe????.... But one thing I did learn from selling cars, you can work for the customer and still make a profit 
Which is exactly what I'm doing.... I've found that when you treat the customer like YOU are doing THEM a favor by selling to them, it never works out for you in the long run.
LOL... licking their wounds... I like that.
I think it's easy for the professionals, who have put their blood, sweat and tears into building their little empires, to get instantly emotional when confronted with such disregard for what it takes to make it. (like selling a fully decked out TT cake to serve 60 for $80) So sometimes we react on raw emotion just like anyone else. I think artscallion (who is such a great person) explained the intent of the post you were referring to. We are all human under the chef jackets and cloud of flour, and say things before thinking about it...I know I do... ALL the time. 
I'm glad that this all can be swept under the rug.
By the way... you have some really nice cakes in your photos Kelli. Your customers should be very happy with what you are providing.
I've found that when you treat the customer like YOU are doing THEM a favor by selling to them, it never works out for you in the long run.
I can't think of anybody in here that acts like that, nor do I see where anyone has insinuated that they are high and mighty.
I do know I'm not going to bend over backwards and haggle with someone on my prices, when 5 people behind them aren't going to give me grief for my price and the quality product that is delivered. The ones that don't book with me, if they are left feeling inferior or not worthy...that's their problem. Cause, as coarse and snippy as I am in here, I am sweet as pie and treat everyone I deal with like royalty. Even when I am declining them as a customer. I politely suggest alternatives...and let it go.
I like steak, dammit. So ya know, I take that into consideration. I'm not going to set myself up for a hamburger budget so that everyone can have their dream cake.
We obviously have a slightly different situation here in NZ (legally) with selling cakes, but there is a lot of doing for friends. I just figure that in every market, for every good/service, there is someone around the corner who is going to charge $40 for a $200 service. But after topsyturvey colours, or a leaky pipe, or a bout of herpes, they usually go back to the $200 provider.
Lol!! Kiwigal81
I would pray no one got a bout of herpes from a cake!!!
Lol!!!!
Is it even possible to get a bout of herpes from a cake? LOL....and I concur Kiwigal81
Jamie... I like steak too (and lobster... together or separate). Some weekend when you aren't swamped with cakes, come on up and I'll grill you up a nice delmonico from the butcher down the road... dry aged to perfection. Okay... now I *really* want a steak. Dammit!!!
Herpes... LMAO!! Can you see someone explaining that??? "Honey... where on EARTH did you get herpes from?!?!?!?!"... "Ummmm.... uhhhh... errrrr.... it was the cake!! I SWEAR!!!!"
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