Concerned About All These Pricing Threads....
Decorating By Deb_ Updated 25 Jan 2010 , 6:28pm by Katiebelle74
Thanks everyone for responding. I have to stand my ground!!
I have done some research on prices in my area and people, "professionals", do start their prices at $2/serving for buttercream and $4 for fondant. I just can't understand it. I only do this for "fun", I'm not trying to make a living off of it but i still couldn't put all that effort and most of all, time into making that amount of money. Like someone else said, since I'm still new and learning it does take me 5x as long as someone else, does it make that much difference?
Do bakery's have dozens of other changes to make up the difference? Where in America are ingredients and supplies so cheap people can afford to earn a living off their profit, at that price (and yes, I know there have been many threads about that topic....)!
Try again jomar. I know exactly where you are and the top bakeries, the pros in your area are way above that. Why don't you give google a look see for the cake designers in your area.
Jamie is correct! I'm not sure what sites you saw but you didn't look at anyone I consider a competitor and we do as many weddings in the Mesa/Gilbert area as anyone (heck, I would bet that the original picture that the bride brought you for that cake you posted had our web URL at the bottom of it...it's an unusual piping pattern that we do all the time 
). We start at $4.00/serving for Buttercream, there are a couple lower than us but not by a whole lot. The one possible exception for low priced cakes is Bamboo Bakery on the west side and they can get down to $2 a serving if you have over 300 guests and book 2 years in advance but if you have 150 guests and book 6 months in advance it's $3.50 a serving to start plus $60+ delivery to the east valley.
I'm not a business owner and I'm barely a cake decorator 
, but I was really glad to see dkelly post this topic. Why? Because I feel the same way. Not annoyance at people for asking questions, but that awful feeling in the pit of my stomach when you can tell a train wreck might be about to happen.
Real friends don't tell you what you want to hear, they tell you what you need to hear. My skin is about as thick as a piece of wet tissue paper and yet there are still times I'm scratching my head wondering how or why people are offended by the truth. I'm not a particularly blunt person and I can sometimes get my feelings hurt when there is no need to, but I want to always recognize when someone is throwing me a life line. I appreciate people looking out for me and I think that's all that has been happening in this thread.
So, when I saw this news story, it reminded me of this very thread. No, the word "cake" doesn't appear in it, but business is business. If you want to succeed, you have to know this stuff. I highly recommend taking a minute to look at this article:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6772310/
Just because someone doesn't know how much they should charge for their first cake doesn't mean that they shouldn't be making cakes. It means that they need a little help and guidance, and what a better group to ask then others who do it for a living.
I'm speaking of threads that say for example.......I had a tasting last evening, they booked with me, how much should I charge for this cake? 
If someone is already at the point where they're offering tastings/consults then they should have a base price in place.
How can a client order a cake and not know what the price is? I've NEVER had anyone book with me that didn't know exactly how much that order was costing them.
So we're not saying this person shouldn't be "making cakes", we're saying maybe this person hasn't thought the "business" side of this through completely.
That's where the "concern" lies.
I'm not a business owner and I'm barely a cake decorator
, but I was really glad to see dkelly post this topic. Why? Because I feel the same way. Not annoyance at people for asking questions, but that awful feeling in the pit of my stomach when you can tell a train wreck might be about to happen.Real friends don't tell you what you want to hear, they tell you what you need to hear. My skin is about as thick as a piece of wet tissue paper and yet there are still times I'm scratching my head wondering how or why people are offended by the truth. I'm not a particularly blunt person and I can sometimes get my feelings hurt when there is no need to, but I want to always recognize when someone is throwing me a life line. I appreciate people looking out for me and I think that's all that has been happening in this thread.
So, when I saw this news story, it reminded me of this very thread. No, the word "cake" doesn't appear in it, but business is business. If you want to succeed, you have to know this stuff. I highly recommend taking a minute to look at this article:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/6772310/
I LOVE you Ziggy! Thank you for getting it! (now I'm off to check out your story)
EDIT TO ADD this from the article linked above........
Hanley has a business plan, something Ivan Hankins, senior area manager with the U.S. Small Business Administration, said he doesn't always see.
The No. 1 reason for new business startup failures is not lack of capital. It is lack of knowing what youre doing, Hankins said.
Great example of what we've been discussing. Have a business plan BEFORE turning on your oven. Very very good advice. Thanks Ziggy!
ok, I Dont think anyone is saying dont ask questions.....
We are saying that pricing is something that needs to be decided before you offer to SELL anyone a cake.
Its concerning because SO MANY people are offering to SELL someone a cake before they have thier ducks in a row to be able to offer something like that.
I really think this sums it up.
ok, I Dont think anyone is saying dont ask questions.....
We are saying that pricing is something that needs to be decided before you offer to SELL anyone a cake.
Its concerning because SO MANY people are offering to SELL someone a cake before they have thier ducks in a row to be able to offer something like that.
I really think this sums it up.
I think referring them to the price matrix might help.
ok, I Dont think anyone is saying dont ask questions.....
We are saying that pricing is something that needs to be decided before you offer to SELL anyone a cake.
Its concerning because SO MANY people are offering to SELL someone a cake before they have thier ducks in a row to be able to offer something like that.
I really think this sums it up.
I think referring them to the price matrix might help.
This is a good start. When I tried the matrix, it severely underpriced my cakes but it a great tool for those who are just getting started and need a list of things to check off for their pricing structure!
Thanks everyone for responding. I have to stand my ground!!
I have done some research on prices in my area and people, "professionals", do start their prices at $2/serving for buttercream and $4 for fondant. I just can't understand it. I only do this for "fun", I'm not trying to make a living off of it but i still couldn't put all that effort and most of all, time into making that amount of money. Like someone else said, since I'm still new and learning it does take me 5x as long as someone else, does it make that much difference?
Do bakery's have dozens of other changes to make up the difference? Where in America are ingredients and supplies so cheap people can afford to earn a living off their profit, at that price (and yes, I know there have been many threads about that topic....)!
Try again jomar. I know exactly where you are and the top bakeries, the pros in your area are way above that. Why don't you give google a look see for the cake designers in your area.
Jamie is correct! I'm not sure what sites you saw but you didn't look at anyone I consider a competitor and we do as many weddings in the Mesa/Gilbert area as anyone (heck, I would bet that the original picture that the bride brought you for that cake you posted had our web URL at the bottom of it...it's an unusual piping pattern that we do all the time
). We start at $4.00/serving for Buttercream, there are a couple lower than us but not by a whole lot. The one possible exception for low priced cakes is Bamboo Bakery on the west side and they can get down to $2 a serving if you have over 300 guests and book 2 years in advance but if you have 150 guests and book 6 months in advance it's $3.50 a serving to start plus $60+ delivery to the east valley.
I'm gonna go read the rest of this after I post this, but I just wanted to agree with the above posters. When you look at "competition" you shouldn't just look at ALL the bakeries. You should look at the bakeries that offer the same things you offer. For example, if I wanted to open a custom cake shop, I sure wouldn't be checking out the Walmart cake pricing for competition. What I do is a whole different class of caking.
I think that these questions get asked because most of the time everyone is so nice and helpful and the people asking truly want advice from those in the know.
I don't think I've ever asked a pricing question on here, but I'd sure hate to be one that has after reading this thread. Just when you think it's safe to ask advice from those you've come to love and respect, you are made to feel like an idiot. Yikes!
This is the Business Forum for licensed storefront or licensed home bakers who bake/decorate for a living as their primary or only source of income.
For these professional bakers/decorators, making & selling cakes is not primarily a creative outlet or something to do on "on the side" to earn "pocket money" while pursuing some other line of work which generates the bulk of their income.
In the Business Forum, cake bakers/decorators deal with the BUSINESS side of "caking" which requires a sound business plan and thinking like a business professional first and foremost.
Home bakers & unlicensed home bakers DO NOT deal with payroll, rent, overhead, etc., so their pricing structure can be dramatically different...
So......
Hobby bakers & unlicensed home bakers should NOT post their pricing questions in this forum. (I move all such posts to the General Forum to differentiate between the two.)
The licensed CC members share their knowledge and expertise throughout all the forums, generously answering questions from newbies on up. But the purpose of the Business Forum is to discuss licensed BUSINESS related questions.
HTH
JanH
CC Forums Moderator
Jan
I did not know that this forum was for the licensed only. I read it all the time even though I am not a licensed cake decorator. I read the "Read This Before Posting in the Business Forum" stick, the first time I ever opened this forum.
This forum is for sharing ideas or expressing opinions about the Commercial Cake Decorating Business.
This is a good place to discuss the aspects of managing a business.
If you have specific questions about cake decorating, try one of the other forums
Whether you are just getting ideas for "someday" or you are a full-fledged bakery owner... Feel free to share and ask/answer questions.
(see this link for full post http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-111.html)
So now I am confused (sincerely). Hobby bakers or people who are not licensed in the business can't post any questions here?
So now I am confused (sincerely). Hobby bakers or people who are not licensed in the business can't post any questions here?
But the purpose of the Business Forum is to discuss licensed BUSINESS related questions.
The forum is not restricted by the status of the poster - it's restricted in its scope of topics...
For example: writing a business plan, getting a commercial loan, typical business start-up costs, best return for advertising budget - bridal magazines/online storefront/ storefront related blog/direct mail, pros/cons of advertising prices on storefront website, commercial floor mixers, 50# bag commercial cake mixes, wholesale distributors, states that license home bakeries, commercial insurance, pros/cons of interns, hiring employees, trademarking business name/s, paying for leads, networking with other vendors, conflict of interest/no competition clause contracts, etc.
HTH
JanH
CC Forums Moderator
Anyone can post in the biz forum... ask any questions you may have, just be prepared for the discussion to be business driven.
Sometimes it can be hard to see things in a constructive light. When someone asks you flat out if you have sat down and figured out if it is legal to sell in your state/county or if you have figured out your own costs or if you have a business plan, it can be hard not to take as "are you stupid?", but it is NEVER meant that way. It is only meant to flip a switch... spark a thought that "hey... you know, I have a lot to think about before I take this hobby of mine to the next level."
My hubby thought I was silly for sitting down and getting the ducks I got in a row in that row, but I jumped into the pool fully knowing how to swim with the sharks. It has been nothing but a help that I researched things and found what my market could bear and how I would have to market my product to be sucessful, that I have my license and am insured so we are protected as a family... so many factors that get over looked.
It can be hard to take the emotion out of it because the newbies to the business side are still very much emotionally involved with the love of decorating... or perhaps they just started and people are giving them so much praise... then they come here for advice on how to take this super fun new thing to the next level and suddenly their sugar plum dreams are deflated and they find out that there is SO much more to making this into a thriving business than they ever imagined... I know... I was there once too. What do you mean I can't just hang a sign and have at it? You mean it might not be possible for me to bake from home??? Why do I need insurance???? What do you mean I am losing money baking an 8" cake for $15.00???? It can turn into an anger... so then it's all you biz owners are rude with your suggestions that I go back to the drawing board and have so much to learn... what does it matter if I sell a few cakes here and there... how can you sleep at night charging $5/serving for a cake (and yes I have been on the recieving end of that little lovely)... I know it's a lot to take in, but you will be infinietly better off if you let it soak in.
No where will you find a group of professionals so willing to share what they know. You just have to have some respect for that fact. In all actuality, someone could make a killing charging for the consulting that is done in this forum. No one wants anyone to bown down in appreciation, but don't get emotional when there is no reason to. Come with some knowledge if you can, and if you can't... then be open to all responses... take it in and use what is useful to you and leave whatever you can't use on the table.
This is a great thread - I just hope people reading this check it ALL out so they can understand this is not an attack on asking pricing questions, just a call to really understand what they are asking. Don't get your feelings hurt, the pros on here just don't want you to get yourself in business "trouble" because you've leaped before you've looked!
Anyone can post in the biz forum... ask any questions you may have, just be prepared for the discussion to be business driven.
(I added bold face typeface for emphasis.)
Yes, anyone can post in the Business Forum (as I stated above) but not ALL questions belong in the Business Forum.
Please go to Forums Index (link below) to find the most appropriate forum for your questions:
http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-forums.html
Thanks for your cooperation. 
... how can you sleep at night charging $5/serving for a cake (and yes I have been on the recieving end of that little lovely)...
I sleep soundly, knowing I charge $7.80, with a 20% charge for fondant!
LOL. I sleep like a baby. And if you came upon me as I slept, you'd say, "aw, he looks just like a little angel." 
Is the "Cake Decorating" forum the correct place for this thread? I just realized it wasn't in the Business or General forum.
I think this topic is more about guiding someone towards the process of getting their business plan in order and to think about the pricing structure.....as opposed to the actual "cake decorating" which is the title of this particular forum.
Since most of the pricing threads start off in the Business or General forum it may be beneficial to have this thread there for them to read BEFORE posting yet another pricing question.
artscallion... I absolutely LOVE your signature line. OMG HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
I don't sleep soundly, but it has nothing to do with my pricing... that's for sure...
(and I meant ask anything in the scope of business questions... should have clarified)
I really don't understand the point of posting a thread trying to make people feel stupid for asking how much to charge for their cakes. So rude. I'm sure nobody here knew exactly what they should charge for the first cake they sold. We just winged it. Give the newbies a break
Is the "Cake Decorating" forum the correct place for this thread? I just realized it wasn't in the Business or General forum.
I think this topic is more about guiding someone towards the process of getting their business plan in order and to think about the pricing structure.....as opposed to the actual "cake decorating" which is the title of this particular forum.
Since most of the pricing threads start off in the Business or General forum it may be beneficial to have this thread there for them to read BEFORE posting yet another pricing question.
eh, they wouldn't read it anyway.
I really don't understand the point of posting a thread trying to make people feel stupid for asking how much to charge for their cakes. So rude. I'm sure nobody here knew exactly what they should charge for the first cake they sold. We just winged it. Give the newbies a break
Well maybe you "don't understand" it because you're completely missing the point of it.
And yes.........after baking for family and friends for 20 years when I finally decided to open my cake business I knew exactly what I would charge and I knew exactly what every ounce of butter cost me.
It's called having a solid business plan BEFORE you offer to sell a cake.
After signing the paperwork for my business loan I certainly wasn't going to "wing it", that would have been irresponsible.
I really don't understand the point of posting a thread trying to make people feel stupid for asking how much to charge for their cakes. So rude. I'm sure nobody here knew exactly what they should charge for the first cake they sold. We just winged it. Give the newbies a break
The ones that just "wing it" are the ones no longer selling cakes for profit.
It's easy how much did it cost, how much profit.
Mike
I always wonder if the people who scold us for trying to make money from baking go to work for free every day, or if they expect to profit from their jobs, too. Yes, this thing called a "paycheck," I've heard of this exotic item before...
Missed the point entirely SinCityCakes... it's not saying "Oh you silly little dumb newbie... how dare you ask how much to price your cakes for?"... it's getting people to ask the important questions to get a productive answer.
What it costs me to make a cake will be different than what it might cost you and you might not be willing to work for the same as I am or vice versa... these points will effect the price you sell your cake for. So a blanket... "what is cake this worth?" is a nonproductive question. I could easily say "nothing" because in all actuality... to me, personally, it is worth nothing because I don't stand t make any profit from it. To the person who made it it could be priceless because it took a long time and it has their first gumpaste roses on it. To come in saying this cake cost be $xx.xx in supplies and took me X hoursto finish and I am wondering how to price it to make decent money... that is something that can garner a more productive answer. This post is not to stop the pricing questions... it is to get people thinking of better ways to ask the age old pricing question so they can come away with a better understanding of what goes into pricing and be able to use the information to set their own pricing.
I think that these questions get asked because most of the time everyone is so nice and helpful and the people asking truly want advice from those in the know.
I don't think I've ever asked a pricing question on here, but I'd sure hate to be one that has after reading this thread. Just when you think it's safe to ask advice from those you've come to love and respect, you are made to feel like an idiot. Yikes!
My thoughts, exactly I used to love coming on here for advise but lately I have to think allot before I post a question, like am I going to annoy somebody or are they going to judge me and that is a sad thing!
Have you read other posts on pet peeves around here? Doesn't this fall along the same lines? Some people get annoyed when words are mispelled or there are not puncuation in a post. Others gets annoyed if the same question gets asked over and over and over. There are some posts that just bother others. There always will be when you have a message board this size and with this many people.
I don't think the orginal post was made to say don't ask, but to put some thought into what you are asking. The more information you can give the more others can help you.
Maybe if someone made outline on [how] to charge for a cake we could give them a link to the answer.
I agree with you somewhat. The crazy thing is that the answers really already here! Maybe they should be a sticky or something so they are easy to find. While it will make it easy to find, I think it is just as important for members to do their part. Instead of coming to CC asking how much to charge for a specific cake, perhaps, those interested should be more concerned with the the method on calculating their expenses and then, the costs of the cake. Once you learn that, you can apply that to ANY cake. However, it seems that some people just want to skip that step and come to CC asking for the price on the cake without taking the time to figure out any part of it. There are way too many variables involved for someone to just give an answer as to what they think another person should charge. However, I think it's much easier to agree on method/formula for calculating this. Learning the method also allows you to be more confident in explaining to the customer just how they came up with the price and actually sticking to your price!
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