Competition...a Little Too Close...

Business By ThatsHowTcakesRolls Updated 17 Feb 2009 , 9:29pm by MrsMissey

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 1:25pm
post #61 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karema

I really dont mind all the comments about JC Penneys but what does bother me is when I see women who are trying to be successfull put down other women who are successful. I think it tacky and just plain old nasty when I hear women smash Paula Dean or Rachael Ray. Those women had to over come great obstatcle to pave the way for other women who want the same thing and have dreams of making it big. Sometimes people just make me sick. So what you dont like their recipes but you should respect them. How would you feel if you finally made it big and had your own show just to have peole always talk crap about you. I think its just jealousy and you're mad because you dont have what they have because believe me if it was offered to you, you would jump on it and wouldnt have time to be on hear talking smack about other successful business women.




I agree. On one hand, no matter what, someone somewhere isn't going to like you...no matter what you do. And some are going to vocalize their dislike and contempt with you to anyone and everyone around them and try to get them to jump the "hater" bandwagon. Oh well, people are people. And Miss. Ray and Paula are gonna keep doing their thing and pay no mind to people that make comments like that. Obviously Food Network is happy with ratings, and they wouldn't be wasting their money.

I learned a very valuable lesson awhile back, shortly after a divorce with a very disturbed man (as was I, but am quite well now! icon_smile.gif )If I am disturbed, if someone bothers me, if what someone else is doing upsets me....I have a part in it. At the very least, my part is allowing myself to be bothered with their sorry butt.

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 1:25pm
post #62 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karema

I really dont mind all the comments about JC Penneys but what does bother me is when I see women who are trying to be successfull put down other women who are successful. I think it tacky and just plain old nasty when I hear women smash Paula Dean or Rachael Ray. Those women had to over come great obstatcle to pave the way for other women who want the same thing and have dreams of making it big. Sometimes people just make me sick. So what you dont like their recipes but you should respect them. How would you feel if you finally made it big and had your own show just to have peole always talk crap about you. I think its just jealousy and you're mad because you dont have what they have because believe me if it was offered to you, you would jump on it and wouldnt have time to be on hear talking smack about other successful business women.




I agree. On one hand, no matter what, someone somewhere isn't going to like you...no matter what you do. And some are going to vocalize their dislike and contempt with you to anyone and everyone around them and try to get them to jump the "hater" bandwagon. Oh well, people are people. And Miss. Ray and Paula are gonna keep doing their thing and pay no mind to people that make comments like that. Obviously Food Network is happy with ratings, and they wouldn't be wasting their money.

I learned a very valuable lesson awhile back, shortly after a divorce with a very disturbed man (as was I, but am quite well now! icon_smile.gif )If I am disturbed, if someone bothers me, if what someone else is doing upsets me....I have a part in it. At the very least, my part is allowing myself to be bothered with their sorry butt.

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FromScratch Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 1:46pm
post #63 of 121

Wow... what a thread.

I agree that women are some of the worst offenders when it comes to bashing other women, but just because I don't personally like someone's show doesn't mean I don't like them personally. Take Rachel Ray for example... I'm sure she's a nice person and good on her for finding success, but I don't like her show. The cutesy catch phrases annoy the ever-living <insert your favorite word here> out of me. I can't watch it. It drives me up a wall. A fair amount of her recipes are good though and I would buy one of her cookbooks because they don't talk. icon_wink.gif I don't begrudge her her success... I just wish she wouldn't use the word "sammie" or "delish" or "yum-o" *shudder*... but I know that's part of her claim to fame so what can you do right?

I personally love Martha... LOL. I think she's a cold and calculated bitch and I respect that. Paula Deen has grown on me a little more since seeing her more fun side through Paula's Party, but her laugh is annoying and her thick drawl gets on my nerves a bit after a while (I really think she plays it up fr the show). I think she would be fun to have some drinks with. I wouldn't buy her cook books though because I'm not into that sort of cooking. I love Giada... her cooking is right up my alley. Simple and clean with some richness sprinkled in. She's adorable too. I think Rachel Ray is beautiful too. It's easy to attack someone you don't know... especially when they put themselves out there for all the world to see. Remember though that they all started out just like you and me... a nobody who loved to cook.

As far as the original thread... I think an olive branch should be extended. Maybe approach them and see if you can't figure out a way to work together. I think the free coffee idea is a great one too. Figure out what it costs you though to see if it's something you can keep up while not shooting yourself in the foot. Sure you are throwing it away now and it seems like no big deal, but are you going to want to put in that coffee order in a few months when you aren't throwing it out? Maybe make it a limited time offer? I don't know how much it costs you, so it could be a cost you are willing to eat so long as it brings in clientelle. icon_smile.gif

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Dizzymaiden Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 2:17pm
post #64 of 121

I just took a very expensive workshop and the women who was running it was very talented and has been on the Food Network cake challenges. The last thing I expected was gossip - she pretty much talk trash about everyone - but the worst accusation was that one of the women fainted on purpose because she thought she was going to lose.

Now- I am no saint but honestly if I knew I had a room full of people who paid a gob of money in this economy - I would watch what I say.

Does that make sense? In the movie Emma - Emma makes fun of another women - Emma's male friend says to her that because Emma has more that she should be more gracious - or something like that.

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indydebi Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 2:23pm
post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly


Karema this is very insightful and exactly why woman are looked upon as "catty", "emotional", and "inferior" to men in corporate America.
.....Otherwise, it just sounds like a lot of whining and pettiness, ........coming from woman, it looks and sounds like a lot of jealousy. These are all successful woman, we don't have to like them, but let's ...... just listen to how you sound when you say it.




Women are LOOKED upon ..... it SOUNDS like a lot of whining ...... listen to how you SOUND ......

This is EXACTLY why women hold themselves back. Women are too concerned with "Playing nice" and "not hurting anyone's feeeeeeeelinnnnnnnngs".

You said it in the words above. It's not that women ARE catty or "emotional" .... but they are LOOKED upon as that. It's not that women are whining, but people say they SOUND like they are whining.

And to top it all off ... we teach our children to be the best (hung around any little league parents lately?) and then we tell them to "shhhh! dont' tell anyone about it!")

And who are the biggest offenders about complaining that women look and sound this way? Other women.

What is this, the 1920's? When women were told their name should be in the paper only 3 times ... when they're born, when they marry and when they die? We shouldn't be allowed to point out our accomplishments and achievements? Good lord, we complain when women are shoved into the back room and yet women are the first to complain when a woman says she doesnt' want to stay in the back room anymore. My goodness, what a brash, egotistical person SHE must be! Who does she think she is, trying to be "better than her place" and pointing out that she's more skilled and successful than "the masses".

Someone should tell Donald Trump the new rule. Gosh, doesn't he know how it "sounds" to plaster his name all over every building he ever builds? icon_rolleyes.gif

In the words of Will Rogers (and I have a HUGE poster with this quote): "If you've done it, it ain't braggin'!"

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sahrow Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 2:26pm
post #66 of 121

>>Now, I am in the process of opening my own business - which will be very similar to theirs. And while it will be my name on the door and my @$$ on the line, I would NEVER disrespect anyone that worked for me. I think if you treat people well, they will respect you and treat you well. I always went above and beyond for those employers who treated me like gold. >>

ohmyganache... if you lived in my town, I'd be knocking on your door asking for a job!

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heavenlys Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 2:57pm
post #67 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbroskoski

I've calmed down now, thanks everyone. I just thought I would give an update... I've decided it would be ridiculous to start a lunch menu since I barely have time for what I do now! my coffee sales never were that good because of the coffee shop so I had decided to discontinue selling coffee and stick with Teas, as someone mentioned above. Anyway...now, instead of discontinuing it I've decided to offer a free coffee with every purchase...

I was throwing it away anyway so this really was a loss for me so why not just give it away... I believe that this will actually bring in some people who may not have come in otherwise. And since I've been throwing away coffee at the end of every day (some days I wouldn't sell any) what would be the difference? Except that it would generate sells that weren't there before! Am I making sense? I think this is a great way to "play" the business game...
Image




We have a coffee shop just 3 doors down from our bakery. They do all the fancy coffees. we offer regular, decaf & 3 flavored coffees. But from 7 am - 9am we have grumpy hours and everyone can get 1/2 priced coffee. for us it helped draw people in to buy our case items and also they remember to order a cake while they are there.

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-K8memphis Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 3:37pm
post #68 of 121

In order for an entrepreneur to do what we do you gotta be 'ok in your own skin'. You gotta be borderline nuts too--seriously. Assertive yes aggressive, sometimes yes for sure. Fly as high as you can

I am fine with giving a gentle nudge to a CakeBuddy who may not realize how more than confident she sounds. I'm not trying to clean anyone's clock--it's just a heads up.

Be the best, say you're striving for excellence but there is always room for improvement. Say that you have the highest goals say that you have unparalelled sales, the most secure staff, the happiest customers but when you say that you have arrived in reality you just missed the boat.

Fly as high as you possibly can but life/business is a journey not a destination.

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-K8memphis Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 3:42pm
post #69 of 121

Because what we have never ever trumps who we are.

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OhMyGanache Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 4:25pm
post #70 of 121

There is a difference between saying "I run a successful business" and "I'm better than anyone else". One is announcing an accomplishment and there's nothing wrong with that. The other is vanity and is very unappealing.

Like I said - nothing wrong with thinking you're the best if you so choose. But when you vocalize it, you're going to turn many people off. And may even pi$$ a few off as well. If someone told me they didn't consider me competition - well, I'd be offended and work that much harder to prove them wrong. My question to txkat would be whether she wants to remain "king of the mountain" - or if she wants to cheese off those competitors enough that they try harder to take away her business.

My point all along has been that there's nothing wrong with striving to be the best. There's nothing wrong with being a little ruthless in the business world. There's nothing wrong with thinking you're better than everyone. But you can also be humble about it.

An example: I did a competition recently. One of the competitors does cakes and catering. Her entry was nice, but not a winner. I didn't win either. She went around after the competition complaining how she should have at least won one of the awards because her piece was so awesome and better than everyone elses (yes, she actually said this to me). I, on the other hand, went around after the competition complimenting everyone on their pieces and hard work - and discussing our respective businesses. I made friends there - friends who will refer people to me. She just made an @$$ of herself - and because of her attitude, I wouldn't ever refer anyone to her (would she badmouth ME at some point? Who knows - she obviously can't control her emotions or her mouth). Now, I do think I should have won - I DO think I had the better piece. But that's just what *I* think - and obviously the judges thought differently and I will just try harder next year.

People can be petty and spiteful. And if you cheese enough people off, it will affect you. There are always competitions like local "Best of..." features in the newspapers, etc. Even if you have the best cupcakes, several people might vote for the place down the street just because they don't want you to win lest it fuel your ego. Others might put up false reviews on websites - accusing you of bad service, or bad product (I've seen it). There was a place locally that had really good pastries... and they were initially voted "Best of...", but the owners have poor attitudes and their business then began to suffer, and I've read several bad reviews of their business since then. I think this is in part due to the owners' attitude, and in part by the effect it had on their employees to do a good job. They worked for tyrants (as I did once), and weren't compelled to provide excellent service. It has a cumulative effect.

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Deb_ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:04pm
post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi


In the words of Will Rogers (and I have a HUGE poster with this quote): "If you've done it, it ain't braggin'!"






As far as the Will Rogers poster..............I think, if you've done it you shouldn't HAVE to brag about it, people will know, at least the people that count.

Please don't tell me you're one of those that sends out the dreaded family letter to everyone at Christmas bragging about "Johnny and Janie's" accomplishments. God...........help us, I HATE those stupid letters.

As long as YOU know your accomplishments, isn't that all that matters? Why is constant validation and praise from others so important? Maybe some woman need that, I sure as hell don't need it nor do I want it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.......at the end of the day it's my marriage and my children that make me smile and Thank God for each night before I close my eyes. It's not the balance in my checking account, or the size of my house, or the make of my car. That will never be what I measure my accomplishments and successes by. I think people that do hold these things up as their ultimate accomplishments, are missing out on the big picture.

K8 said it best "because what we have never ever trumps who we are" It's a shame that some people don't find that out until it's too late.

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:24pm
post #72 of 121

So, Ganache....let's see these pictures! icon_biggrin.gif

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:26pm
post #73 of 121

Of your competition entries, I mean, sounds intriguing!

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:27pm
post #74 of 121

Of your competition entries, I mean, sounds intriguing!

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Deb_ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:28pm
post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkelly


If we as woman want that to change, then we better start treating other woman in the business sect with as much respect as we want to be treated with. Otherwise, it just sounds like a lot of whining and pettiness, kind of like the stuff you'd hear at a 14 yr old's slumber party.
So if some of us want to believe that we have "the most beautiful" shop in the entire United States that's fine, just listen to how you sound when you say it.




The above was my original post. The quote below was chopped up. My point was completely lost Indy when you quoted me and chopped up my original post. If you're going to quote me than at least show me the courtesy of leaving it as I originally posted. Thank you!

Indy's version of my quote...........big difference, no?

dkelly wrote:
....Otherwise, it just sounds like a lot of whining and pettiness, ........coming from woman, it looks and sounds like a lot of jealousy. These are all successful woman, we don't have to like them, but let's ...... just listen to how you sound when you say it.

Doesn't even make sense to me anymore icon_rolleyes.gif

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costumeczar Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:33pm
post #76 of 121

Now that this thread has gone completely off-topic...

I think that the point that's being missed here is that you can be proud of your accomplishments, and secure in the fact that you're good at what you do, and not be a total douchebag too. It's not an issue of women being "jealous" of other successful women, and it's not necessarily an issue of valuing material things. If someone knows that they're good at what they do they can still be nice to other people, but they shouldn't have to go around pretending to be mediocre just so other people don't feel bad about not being as good. I'm know that I'm good at making cakes, and I'm totally willing to answer questions if people ask me for help. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm with Indy on the fact that women are brought up to play nice and be modest about our abilities, and if you don't play by those rules people will think you're pushy and bitchy. I don't advocate going into a class and gossiping about other decorators, but I see nothing wrong in being confident in your abilities and tooting your own horn every now and then.

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:39pm
post #77 of 121

Well, if you want to get technical...where in here did someone say they had the most beautiful shop in the USA? I read one that mentioned they had the most beautiful shop within 50 miles...so if this is the one you are referring to, are you not chopping and exaggerating yourself? I mean, it looks that way to me. If I overlooked another post, please forgive me.

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iamlis Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:42pm
post #78 of 121

Jamie...it is not even worth your breath, just let them think they are right, smile and nod and get back to the subject at hand.

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indydebi Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:44pm
post #79 of 121

I just got an email that I'm one of the wedding vendors awarded the 2009 Bride's Choice Award from WeddingWire, a Martha Stewart affiliation company.

I just finished sending the press release to every publication and news service I have in my file. I have posted the 2009 Award Icon on my website.

Under the above post's logic, I should just sit on this information and not use it for the advertising value it has. I mean, as long as *I* know about it, that's all that counts? It's not "validation and praise" ... it's valuable advertising that gets your name out in front of the public. If you dont' understand the value of that ....... icon_confused.gif

--------
dkelly, I didnt' chop up your quote to change the meaning ... there were just some key phrases and words I was responding to and using to make a point, and didn't want to eat up space with the entire thing. Your entire post is still available for anyone to read in it's entirety. No disrespect was intended by quoting the short version.
--------
Psst! And I LIKE getting family newsletters at Christmas! thumbs_up.gif None of us get to see our many family members like "in the olden days" when families lived within minutes of each other and saw each other every day and every Sunday in church, so it's nice to know what's new and what's going on with everyone!

I LIKE hearing about the accomplishments of my cousins and sharing the pride of their parents. It's fun to be happy for other people and the joy of celebrating the milestones and accomplisments in their lives. party.gif I'm excited to read how my cousin who is older than me, still runs in marathons and how she breaks her record every year! My heart swells with pride when I read of a relatives volunteer work with the battered women's shelter and all they do for the kids they encounter.

I can't imagine how anyone could hate hearing about stuff like that. Makes me very proud to part of such a great family. (kinda balances out having to deal with the Jerry Springer side of my relatives! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif )

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:44pm
post #80 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlis

Jamie...it is not even worth your breath, just let them think they are right, smile and nod and get back to the subject at hand.




You're right, you're right. I hate it when I do that...thanks iamlis. Not my battle.

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Deb_ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:46pm
post #81 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Now that this thread has gone completely off-topic...

I think that the point that's being missed here is that you can be proud of your accomplishments, and secure in the fact that you're good at what you do, and not be a total douchebag too. It's not an issue of women being "jealous" of other successful women, and it's not necessarily an issue of valuing material things. If someone knows that they're good at what they do they can still be nice to other people, but they shouldn't have to go around pretending to be mediocre just so other people don't feel bad about not being as good. I'm know that I'm good at making cakes, and I'm totally willing to answer questions if people ask me for help. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm with Indy on the fact that women are brought up to play nice and be modest about our abilities, and if you don't play by those rules people will think you're pushy and bitchy. I don't advocate going into a class and gossiping about other decorators, but I see nothing wrong in being confident in your abilities and tooting your own horn every now and then.




Why can't there be a happy medium? Does it have to be the "bitchy" way or the "submissive way" ? No, I don't think so. Just because someone is "nice" to someone else in the same business, doesn't mean that person is pretending to be "mediocre" does it? Why, can't it just mean that "a successful woman is nice to another successful woman"?

The two can coexist in my opinion...........just as the OP's pastry shoppe CAN coexist with the Coffee Shop. They don't have to be enemies, they could actually help each other's business if they worked together in a respectful way.

I don't believe these proverbial "rules" you speak of even exist. I wasn't brought up to play nice, I was brought up to stand up for what I believe in and to not let anyone, man or woman walk all over me.

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Deb_ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 10:52pm
post #82 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie85364

Well, if you want to get technical...where in here did someone say they had the most beautiful shop in the USA? I read one that mentioned they had the most beautiful shop within 50 miles...so if this is the one you are referring to, are you not chopping and exaggerating yourself? I mean, it looks that way to me. If I overlooked another post, please forgive me.




I didn't use the "quote" button and quote anyone in particular, did I? No.

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:01pm
post #83 of 121

icon_rolleyes.gif

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costumeczar Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:01pm
post #84 of 121

Oh, of course those kinds of "rules" exist for women in this society. There are definitely double-standards of how men and women's actions are judged, and it all relates to the "rules."

I certainly try to make sure that my daughter knows she can do whatever she wants to do when she's older, but there are plenty of people who tell their girls they need to do certain things and act a certain way. I think it stinks, but it does exist.

I don't see anyone knocking men who criticize other successful men and saying that they all need to support each other becasue they're men. Get a woman to say that "chicky-wicky" irritates her, though, and it becomes "oh, she's just jealous, we need to support each other!" No, I just find the phrase "chicky wicky" irritating whoever says it! (Although the effect has kind of worn off now since my kids like to say it to me so much to watch me cringe!)

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OhMyGanache Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:06pm
post #85 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie85364

Oh my, take a pill dkelly! I can see the veins popping out of your neck from here! Geeeez. icon_biggrin.gif




Whoa... she's stressing a point, not stressing out. Comments like these are totally disrespectful.

Need we negate other people's opinions simply because we disagree? thumbsdown.gif

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__Jamie__ Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:07pm
post #86 of 121

No, we don't, that's why I erased it. This thread has turned into a complete waste of internet space.

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OhMyGanache Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:17pm
post #87 of 121

It really bothers me that some people can't debate a topic without it getting personal. I totally disagree with Debi and txkat on this topic - but I still respect them as people, and I show them that respect. Each side can argue their points as we have done. Why is intelligent debate ever a "waste of internet space"?

If you don't have something positive or thoughtful to contribute, why post something negative?

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iamlis Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:21pm
post #88 of 121

Well then how come some people are allowed to be snarky and no one is allowed to snark back? I have always wondered that about this site...it is as if once you take a different stance on something there is ALWAYS the good guy and the bad guy? How come Jamie had to erase her comment while dkelly gets away with..."Did you see me quote anyone? No" It is silly and petty, guess what you don't agree-and if you say ANYTHING about someones business and they are gonna take it personal and it WILL get ugly-happens every time here. So what that TX wants to be Nieman Marcus? Thats her business...you guys go and be Rachel Ray, Paula Deen, JC Penney-whoever you want.

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indydebi Posted 16 Feb 2009 , 11:51pm
post #89 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyGanache

I totally disagree with Debi and txkat on this topic -




All right!!! thumbs_up.gif someone who's not shy about taking the other side so we can have a great debate on here! Rock on, girl!!!! thumbs_up.gif luv ya back!!

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snarkybaker Posted 17 Feb 2009 , 12:22am
post #90 of 121

Here's what's interesting. I NEVER said I was better than...I said I was DIFFERENT than. I didn't say I had the " nicest" shop for 50 miles, I said " There isn't anything like my shop for 50 miles.."

Marketing isn't really about being the best necessarily. Everybody can name a successful restaurant in their town where the food isn't really very good. Marketing is about defining yourself. If you have a strong brand identity and consistently meet or exceed your customers expectations, you will do well, provided you have done your math right.

In this economy, to survive, you need to make your space profitable every hour that you are open. That's why bakeries serve coffee and specialty cake shops put out pastries for walk-ups etc.

I can tell you why the coffee shop is trying to sell baked goods. Coffee business is off about 30-40% from last year at this time. That's why Starbucks are closing faster than my husband eats a cookie ( and that is pretty darn fast) The coldstone across the street from us has started selling something they are calling cupcakes. You know why, because ice cream sales are down too.

Pastries are holding their own. So EVERYBODY is going to start selling them. Consequently, what you need to do is BE SOMETHING DIFERENT than the coffee shop that just happens to sell cake. Be the Neiman Marcus of cupcakes...Hell, be the Pottery Barn of cupcakes. Just don't be the same as everyone else.

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