Oy Vey! 18 Kids...and Counting!

Lounge By KeltoKel Updated 10 Jan 2009 , 5:26am by summernoelle

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ahuvas Posted 25 Dec 2008 , 6:27am
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Originally Posted by xstitcher

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Originally Posted by stephaniescakenj

Oh how I wished I lived where you live ahuvas. I have three girls (5, 3, 1) and we'd like to have more eventually. I get such comments about how many kids we have. Most of the families around here only have one or two kids.



Me too. Everyone is always shocked when they hear/see that we have 4 children.




haha I also grew up as one of four children and I always felt growing up that my family wasn't big enough. However when I go to work etc and tell people my sister has five kids they think she is some religious freak. She is jewish orthodox but thats not why she has kids - she just loves them and they are brought up in a warm and caring environment.

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indydebi Posted 25 Dec 2008 , 1:11pm
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Re: the concern about the older kids helping care for the younger kids.

I was the oldest of 6. Not a large family by this family's standards, but a large family. icon_smile.gif My parents had 2 sets of friends who also had 6 kids. When they all came to visit ... well, let's just say it was a good thing we lived on a farm with lots of space to play! icon_biggrin.gif

It's very very common for the older kids to help out with the younger. This was also "back in the day" when kids had daily chores around the house, such as hanging up 6 baskets of laundry every day .... yes, I said EVERY DAY (and we're talking outside, on the clothesline with clothespins; and taking down the dry to hang the next basket), mowing the lawn (and living in the country, it really WAS 'the back 40'), etc.

Family time was a bowl of popcorn in front of the TV, or playing Monopoly, or taking a Sunday afternoon drive (very common cheap entertainment back then).

We didnt' feel deprived of a childhood, nor were we being taught that large families were the only way. As a matter of fact, it was whatgave me the opinion that I was only going to have one child. I changed my mind, but my child was 7 when I changed it.

It wasn't our mom abdicating her responsibilities by "dumping" it on the older kids to care for the younger kids. It's just how big families work with everyone pitching in.

You can't really compare a 2-kid family with running a 6-kid or an 18-kid family. It's really, really different.

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vww104 Posted 1 Jan 2009 , 2:58am
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I'm truly amazed that one woman can have that many babies in one lifetime. God bless her!

I would love to know how much compensation they receive from TLC and the John & Kate family also.

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Carolynlovescake Posted 1 Jan 2009 , 4:04am
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Originally Posted by vww104

I'm truly amazed that one woman can have that many babies in one lifetime. God bless her!

I would love to know how much compensation they receive from TLC and the John & Kate family also.




Probably no where near enough to make a difference. icon_lol.gif

Then again with the Duggars being out of debt all incoming money can instantly be used and not go off to pay credit cards, car payments etc.

We are very close to being debt free and honestly I won't go back no matter how tempting those 0% cards are to apply for. We have one we'll keep for emergency and that is it.

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bigsisof3kids Posted 1 Jan 2009 , 5:51pm
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I couldn't have said it better myself, indydebi. Everything you've said hits the nail on the head. i can identify with you in SOOOO many ways icon_biggrin.gif

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Peeverly Posted 3 Jan 2009 , 10:46pm
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Ok. I've never been over to the "lounge" but I wanted to check on what was going on with Joanne. So, I can across this post on the Duggars. They are an amazing family but I think they are out of the loop with modern day. That is not so bad when you think about all that is going on out there (underage drinking, sex, drugs, etc.). I couldn't live like that but it is nice to see such nice people. Obviously they are religious and uphold very high standards in regards to their beliefs. One question though, (and don't get mad at me but I really need to know) what is with the hair and the dresses?

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mbelgard Posted 3 Jan 2009 , 11:08pm
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Yes large families run differently than smaller ones but I fail to see how helping out a little more than average is the same as these kids who are being given a younger sibling to do all care on. They have said that mom only raises the youngest child and bathing/dressing/feeding/etc on the others is done by a "buddy."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Peeverly

. One question though, (and don't get mad at me but I really need to know) what is with the hair and the dresses?





The hair is because there is a verse in the bible about women's hair being their glory or something. So some Christian groups feel that women should have long hair. The ironic thing to me is that most men in those days had what we would think of as long hair on men but these same groups generally think it's terrible to see men with longer hair. There are Christians who go even further than the Duggars and the women wear something to cover most of their hair so only their husband sees it.


The dress thing is a modesty issue and some christians also have issues with Bible verses that talk about how women shouldn't dress like men. On the modesty front some of these groups feel that if a man gets excited by something a woman is wearing it is her fault and she's making him sin, others have different views. The most extreme groups go so far as to either wear swim dresses that go to the ankle or just don't do mixed gender swimming.

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bigsisof3kids Posted 5 Jan 2009 , 2:22pm
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Quote:

One question though, (and don't get mad at me but I really need to know) what is with the hair and the dresses?




I am someone who does wear only dresses/skirts, and has long hair (a few inches past my shoulder, but used to be much much longer).
I personally wear skirts to differentiate myself from everyone else. If I see a woman at the grocery store in a skirt, I automatically wonder if they're a Christian. Even if the woman isn't, she's just wearing a skirt that day because she felt like it, my mind just thinks that. And that's what I want people to think about me. It's just part of my personal testimony. A conviction of mine.
Now I'm NOT saying that you're not a Christian if you don't wear skirts. It's not a sin to wear pants. I know many many great Christian women who wear pants.

Now to the issue of hair... it's kinda the same idea as the dresses. There's a verse in Titus 2:14 that talks about being a peculiar people. Kinda peculiar to walk around in a dress and long hair all the time. Peculiar enough to raise the question as to why the Duggar family does it. Besides, I like wearing skirts and having longer hair... but that's beside the point. icon_biggrin.gif

Okay, I'm off the soapbox now... icon_smile.gif

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ziggytarheel Posted 5 Jan 2009 , 3:20pm
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[quote="bigsisof3kids
Now I'm NOT saying that you're not a Christian if you don't wear skirts. It's not a sin to wear pants. I know many many great Christian women who wear pants.

Now to the issue of hair... it's kinda the same idea as the dresses. There's a verse in Titus 2:14 that talks about being a [i:1bc6f12cc3]peculiar[/i:1bc6f12cc3] people. Kinda peculiar to walk around in a dress and long hair all the time. Peculiar enough to raise the question as to why the Duggar family does it. Besides, I like wearing skirts and having longer hair... but that's beside the point. icon_biggrin.gif

Okay, I'm off the soapbox now... icon_smile.gif[/quote]

Just to offer a different perspective, this verse you speak of is translated a bit differently by many Bible scholars. Those translations do not use the term peculiar people but instead all say something like God's own people, meaning that believers are different because they belong to God, not because they are weird or strange. Just a different biblical perspective. icon_smile.gif

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Peeverly Posted 5 Jan 2009 , 3:20pm
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Thanks for the replies on the hair and the dresses. I am a Christian (Armenian Apostolic) but I don't wear dresses (well... sometimes I do but not usually unless I am going to church or dressing for an event or maybe if I just want to look nice!). I was just wondering. Very interesting. Need to read more of the bible (my priest would love that!) instead of all those novels. Thanks again, now I know when I see someone who has that style of dress and hair that they are Christians. icon_smile.gif

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mbelgard Posted 5 Jan 2009 , 4:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peeverly

Need to read more of the bible (my priest would love that!) instead of all those novels.





I recommend starting at the begining and reading all the way through at least once, it's a very interesting book. I plan to encourage my children to read it when they're old enough to handle the bad parts.

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funcakes Posted 6 Jan 2009 , 1:48am
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Okay, before we get carried away-do not assume that women who wear only dresses, modest clothing and have long hair are Christians. Many orthodox Jewish, Muslim and even some cults and pagen groups do the same. So, you can't tell a book by it's cover.

I am also pondering why you think about what religion other people belong to when you see them in public. It's something I don't think I have every thought about, but perhaps that's because I live in a very diverse area here. Every type of Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, Jewish, Hindi, etc.

BTW I think by reading the other posts I am now officially the last living member of the group that supports zero population growth. I am not bashing those who chose to have large families, I just think we should be gentle with the earth and remember how humans impact the environment and overpopulation can have devastating effects on all living creatures.
Do young people still read Rachel Carson's Silent Spring? That used to be the book to read back in the day-

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Peeverly Posted 6 Jan 2009 , 12:17pm
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I really don't think about what religion people are except when I see someone with a different type of dress. Actually, it's not really what religion they are it's more that they might be a different nationality. I'm not judging, just thinking. It is such a melting pot here that I see all types of people. My son's two good friends are Chinese and Pakastani so I see all types of dress (mainly their parents). I was just wondering about the hair and dress on the Duggar women. I grew up with a bunch of little old Armenian women with their rolled up panty hose showing and God forbid someone in the family died then they would wear a black dress for 4 decades! Getting back to the Duggars, they are obviously born here so their style of dress sticks out to me as religious. I think they are very nice people just different. I admire them for upholding what they feel is important. Gotta go drive the kids to school, they missed the bus (again! icon_sad.gif )!

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mbelgard Posted 6 Jan 2009 , 2:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peeverly


Getting back to the Duggars, they are obviously born here so their style of dress sticks out to me as religious.




Not quite. The way they dress is because of their religion but there are no specific articles of clothing that any one fundamentalist group wears. Even in the same church you can see several different points of view on clothing and hair. I'm sorry if I confused you, I was trying to explain the reasoning behind some of it.

My aunt is Quiverfull (sp?) too and her girls wore pants and never had really long hair. She even has the same ideas on dating/courting, her kids didn't but that's a different story. She did not allow her daughters to wear shirts that showed their bellies or anything but none of them dressed the way the Duggars do.

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Peeverly Posted 6 Jan 2009 , 5:07pm
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I get it about the dress. So, are the Duggars "Quiverfull"? I am going to google it. I find this all very interesting. I love to learn about people and different views on religion. Thanks for the info. Learning so much here at cake central! Who's to think I'd learn about different religious groups and clothing and hair here. I'm a cookie decorator so maybe I'll go over to the cake forum and learn about cakes icon_biggrin.gif

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mbelgard Posted 6 Jan 2009 , 7:36pm
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Yes they are Quiverfull. But even among that small group there are many different views on other aspects of their religion so it can get kind of confusing.



I don't know how true this is but I heard somewhere that Michelle Duggar quits nursing as soon as she can to have more babies.

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-Tubbs Posted 7 Jan 2009 , 12:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funcakes

BTW I think by reading the other posts I am now officially the last living member of the group that supports zero population growth. I am not bashing those who chose to have large families, I just think we should be gentle with the earth and remember how humans impact the environment and overpopulation can have devastating effects on all living creatures.




Nope, I'm with you. I think it's irresponsible to have so many children. If you truly want a 'quiverfull', adopt some of the many, many children who need a family.

If all the Duggar children have as many kids as their parents, there will be 324 grandchildren. icon_sad.gif

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michood Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 7:53pm
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I actually saw an episode where they asked one of the girls why they all have long hair. She said that is was not because of religion, but because her father likes long curly hair, so the mom keeps her hair that way and the girls do it a) because the dad likes it (which seemed a bit odd to me) and b) because they (the girls) really like it. The girls who wear their hair like that perm it themselves, but I think that there are a couple younger ones who aren't into it yet.

Perhaps the Dad's reasons for liking long, curly hair are religious, but that isn't what the girl said.

I don't think that having a lot of children is irresponsible unless you don't take care of them. Yes, my personal opinion is that they're a tad bit different, but good for them. I prefer them over John and Kate any day! At least this mom is NICE!

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michellenj Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 9:13pm
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Originally Posted by michood


I prefer them over John and Kate any day! At least this mom is NICE!




The John and Kate people live in my area, and Kate did a book signing here that turned into a fiasco, and supposedly she got nasty.

Back on topic, I really loved being pregnant, but DAYUM, that's a lot of kids. I had days where I thought I'd lose my mind if I changed one more diaper or heard "mommeeeee" one more time, and I only have 2. She must have magic happy pills.

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stephaniescakenj Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 9:29pm
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no magic happy pills... she just relies on the older kids to care for the younger ones. must be nice. icon_rolleyes.gif

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summernoelle Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 10:15pm
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Originally Posted by michellenj

Her poor uterus.




haha. one time I was in for an OB appointment, and they were feeling my belly to tell what position the baby was in, etc. She told me that earlier that day, their had been a woman who was pg with her 8th, and that her uterus had been stretched out so many times that she could actually feel fingers through it. Eeewwwww!!!!

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michellenj Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 10:27pm
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Originally Posted by summernoelle

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Originally Posted by michellenj

Her poor uterus.



haha. one time I was in for an OB appointment, and they were feeling my belly to tell what position the baby was in, etc. She told me that earlier that day, their had been a woman who was pg with her 8th, and that her uterus had been stretched out so many times that she could actually feel fingers through it. Eeewwwww!!!!




icon_eek.gif

I have a friend who had a midwife deliver her baby, and she pulled on the cord too hard and my friend's uterus CAME OUT! I am not kidding you. It came out, inside out like a sock. The midwife was standing there holding it, saying "I've never seen this before, I don't know what this is". So after a run of the mill veginal delivery, they had to rush her into emergency abdominal surgery to put her uterus back and anchor it. I think they called it "prolapsed uterus".

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summernoelle Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 11:12pm
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Holy cow. Ewww. That's life threatening, isn't it? Seriously, I am all for hospitals. You need doctors there, just in case the baby isn't breathing or something. I went through 23 hours with my 1st that ended up in a c section. It I had had to make a car trip in that state, I think the pain alone would have killed me.

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michood Posted 9 Jan 2009 , 11:20pm
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I totally agree about needing hospitals. You can have your all natural, no medication birth, just do it at a hospital incase something goes wrong! I've never understood giving birth at home, mainly because I KNOW I would be devastated if something (like if the baby got stuck, stopped breathing, or if I had major bleeding) happened and I was at home instead of in a hospital surrounded by professionals.

I would think that by the 18th baby, her labor would only be like 15 minutes. I loved being pregnant, but spending THAT much time pregnant? No thanks! At least she's raising good people instead of having 18 children and leaving them to fend for themselves or relying on the system to take care of them!

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michellenj Posted 10 Jan 2009 , 12:00am
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My friend would have died it Blue Cross would have let her have the home birth that she wanted. She is a granola girl, all natural all the way. She did power yoga her entire pregancy, was ultra healthy, etc., but the insurance would not pay unless she gave birth in a hospital. Her midwife still delivered, but thank God she was at a hospital where doctors could save her. Her dh said it was like a murder scene in the room, and they just rushed her and the baby out and didn't tell him anything. Very scary.

I picture the lady w/ 18 kids as a great big walking, talking vagina, the rest of her is just there for show. icon_razz.gif

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Tita9499 Posted 10 Jan 2009 , 12:06am
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I don't think she's ever had a period. I do use their recipe for making my own laundry detergent so I'm glad they got all them kids or I wouldn't have it.

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Tita9499 Posted 10 Jan 2009 , 12:18am
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I will say something less superficial about the Duggars though. I really do respect the way they "do their own thing". They don't allow society's view of them and their lifestyle to dictate the way they raise their children. They don't apologize for loving Jesus and teaching their children to love Jesus (like many Christians nowaday feel the need to).
I feel if you can afford to have that many children and my taxes don't have to support them via welfare, food stamps, etc...more power to you.
I don't see people complaining when people who are perfectly capable of working have 2 kids and are mooching off the government getting public assistance cause they don't want to work for themselves...do you?

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Peeverly Posted 10 Jan 2009 , 12:21am
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You are all so funny! All this uterus talk. I have a story. I have a friend who had five children. She is super fit and excercise a lot. One day while she was power walking she felt something strange "down there". When she got home she went into the bathroom to check. Well, her uterus fell out! She's 40 years old and her uterus fell out!!!!!! She called her husband to look. At first they didn't know what it was but then they figured it out. She actually pushed in back in until she got an appointment with her dr. I guess she has to have an operation. So, the morale of the story is, don't have too many kids or your uterus could fall out! icon_biggrin.gif

P.S. I am not surprised that Kate from John and Kate plus 8 got nasty. I think she has the kind of personality. You know the kind "don't mess with me or I will cut you".

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Tita9499 Posted 10 Jan 2009 , 12:32am
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No, I think Kate has the, "I whine and nag my husband until he does what I want him to do" personality. She drives me absolutely insane the way she talks to her husband, I find it so disrespectful and annoying. And most of you can tell that I'm an outspoken person.

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michood Posted 10 Jan 2009 , 12:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tita9499

I will say something less superficial about the Duggars though. I really do respect the way they "do their own thing". They don't allow society's view of them and their lifestyle to dictate the way they raise their children. They don't apologize for loving Jesus and teaching their children to love Jesus (like many Christians nowaday feel the need to).
I feel if you can afford to have that many children and my taxes don't have to support them via welfare, food stamps, etc...more power to you.
I don't see people complaining when people who are perfectly capable of working have 2 kids and are mooching off the government getting public assistance cause they don't want to work for themselves...do you?





I completely agree with everything you've said! I think it is amazing to see a family with such a strong belief and the willingness to share it with the world.

I also don't see how them having 18 children is really bothering anyone considering they aren't living off the government in any way. If a family is living off of our tax dollars, they probably shouldn't keep bringing more babies into the world that they can't afford, but this family obviously has their finances in order!

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