A Great Idea For A Start Up Business
Business By ziggytarheel Updated 16 Sep 2008 , 5:44pm by costumeczar
Is she doing this on her own or through her new employer, Washington Duke Inn. I hope for her sake it's through her employer.
The article said:
For now, Catolos will keep her day job at the Washington Duke Inn, but if DaisyCakes really takes off, she said, you never know.
which makes it sound like it's all on her own and not thru the employer.
I am really surprised Washington Duke Inn is allowing her to do this as well...
She worked for me for a few months, long enough to poach a good deal of inside information. I paid her exceedingly well ( over $18.00 an hour), and was more than slightly put out by her quitting in the height of wedding season. She signed a non-compete that says she cannot use my recipes for profit, or open a business with a similar concept within 30 miles of my bakery.
It was very interesting that she almost every day would ask "where are you getting...." or something close. It alway gave my husband the heebee geebees.
I'm feeling a cease and desist coming on....
Man, that really sucks! (and your pay is REALLY good! Can I come work for you? 
)
I assume even Washington Duke Inn is still pretty close to you, isn't it?
"Man, that really sucks! (and your pay is REALLY good! Can I come work for you? ) "
geeze i was thinking the same thing....plus i can actually decorate....and come with my own 30 qt mixer....that stupid girl didn't know how good she had it.
She worked for me for a few months, long enough to poach a good deal of inside information. I paid her exceedingly well ( over $18.00 an hour), and was more than slightly put out by her quitting in the height of wedding season. She signed a non-compete that says she cannot use my recipes for profit, or open a business with a similar concept within 30 miles of my bakery.
It was very interesting that she almost every day would ask "where are you getting...." or something close. It alway gave my husband the heebee geebees.
I'm feeling a cease and desist coming on....
Man, that really sucks! (and your pay is REALLY good! Can I come work for you?
) I assume even Washington Duke Inn is still pretty close to you, isn't it?
The Washinington Duke is about 8 miles from the shop, and we do a fair amount of business there, since she only makes the plated desserts for the restaurant. There is a seperate pastry assistant for banquets, and the hotel itself doesn't do occasion cakes.
I do pay really well because I have very high expectations. I go all Gordon Ramsey from time to time.
Heck, I'd work for you for half that pay. Granted, I don't know much, but sometimes that's better...you can train people the way you want.
I thought I was the only one who liked Gordon Ramsey! Everyone else I know thinks he is nasty. Sure, I would be crying the minute he walked in the door...wouldn't last a minute. Kitchen Nightmares is great...can't believe there are places like that! I don't think I want to eat out ever again.
Michelle, I'll try to condense this story, but I bought some baking sheets from ebay and they turned out to be god awful. God's little creatures had left LOTS of 'souveniers' all over them! (bleck!) I started to try to clean them.... $400 is a lot of money when you're starting out. Hubby trying to convince me to just trash them. I'm trying to salvage $400. Hubby tries "...you'll never get them clean." Debi thinks of the $400. Hubby tries "...the health dept would have a fit." Debi thinks of the $400.
Then hubby says:
"If Gordon Ramsey walked into this kitchen right now, you'd never be able to justify it to him."
That's it! In the trash they went!! That very second!
He couldn't threaten me with the Health Dept .... but mention Ramsey's standards and I'm hoppin', skippin', and jumpin' to Git-R-Dun right!!
but than again I'm not a business owner.
ohhhhhhhh!!!! That explains it. You haven't invested $500,000 like txkat has to build an incredible business. You haven't faced the creditors when sales were slow or when the air conditioning broke down in slow season. You haven't put up everything you own and more to build a business based on your ideas and your concepts.
A business is MORE than a cupcake recipe. It's the idea, the execution, the figuring out how to get it done, the doing it, the maintaining it, the investment, the paying for it, the building the clientele, etc. etc. etc.
And for someone to come in, look around, take notes, and waltz off to duplicate your efforts ..... the law has stated that when an agreement is in place that prevents an employee from "stealing" all of this from you, then said employee can't steal this, the most valuable part of your business, from you.
I don't mean to sound harsh, and we were all in your position at one time or another ... but once you make that big investment (mine was "only" $100,000 .... a pitance compared to txkat!), then I'm confident you'll totally understand where we business folks are coming from.
We're not talking a cupcake recipe here ... it's much, much more than that.
Very well said!!
I just wanted to thank all of you guys for your efforts. I had two glasses of wine and went to bed, I was so fumed...The truth of the matter is that I was very nice to Tanya, we talked for a year. I knew her end goal was to open her own place, as it is for many of my employees. I gave her a job when the Washington Duke wouldn't allow her enough time with her 4 year old daughter. I let her write her own schedule and paid her well.
North Carolina is already a really tough market. Anybody with a pulse can get licensed to bake at home and it drives the prices down. To give you an idea, at the winter Wedding show, there were 12 cake vendors. 8 of them are home based operations with virtually no overhead. I have a half a million dollars invested, and a payroll of over 10,000 a month- closer to 20,000 most months.
I wrote a very fair non-compete, and yes, this was the first I had heard of Tanya selling cupcakes and scones. The good news is that she can't possibly make enough money at the Farmer's Market to support herself, and her occasion cake work was awful. She can't decorate at all. I ended up re-piping more than one cake she made while she was here, so that won't last long.
I agree, the Farmers Market is FULL of cake people...I dont think she will make much there...
Even though I am a home baker, I do agree, there are too many home bakers in our area that are charging 2.50 a serving for a wedding cake. But I feel that if a bride wants that kind of quality, she can have it. There are plenty of brides out there. I find a lot of my brides don't come to me for my prices, but for my designs and they LOVE all the personal attention they get, as well as they know I am the one who is going to decorate the cake. But as far as overhead, I wish there was very little overhead! I don't bake out of my ktichen, I have a special space in my house that was custom designed with my builder. No it didnt cost me a half a mil, but it wasn't cheap either. I know of several bakers who have redone a garage and one who even rents a whole seperate house for their bakery! So please don't lump us all into this group of making cakes at the kitchen table...I didn't open a store front because i don't want walk in traffic. That to me is what you open a store front for. I am truely custom cakes.
So many of us share recipes here, and I have shared resources with other bakeries in my area. I agree, we shouldn't compete, but what this gal has done has broken an agreement. That is what gets me. Its just sad sad sad.
So, I am wondering, where did everyone get the recipes you use? Are they original? I want to know what the rule is regarding recipes. I am playing with the idea of opening up a shop in about three years when my youngest starts school. Ofcourse, I am playing with recipes, getting recipes anywhere I can find them, but if I were to open a shop, what is the rules about where my recipes come from? I completely understand its not cool to spend the next three years trying to gather all of Indydebi's recipes, for example or go to work for someone and steal all their recipes, but is it Ok to use recipes that are not original that I have gathered from many different sources?
To me, if you bought a cookbook, you can freely use the recipes out of it. I have some issues with the rather common practice of lifting recipes out of a cookbook that someone else wrote and copying them onto the internet.
But, in this case, my non-compete specifies not my recipes. My buttercream recipe is one of a kind, and honestly, it's an awesome recipe. Fluffy, easy to smooth, not gritty like powdered sugar frosting, not over buttery like some egg based bc. We also have a novel process for flavoring it that allows us to get an intensely flavored bc without changing the texture without adding a bunch of fake flavoring, like a lorann oil. If she is in fact using it, it is a huge deal to me.
***side note about Ramsey....he's not bad too work for. In fact the workers I've talked to of his really like him. They said his standards are high but shouldn't everybody have high standards.
Now Bobby Flays assistant on the other hand that I talked to hated his guts. He's known for being a jerk and I asked her if it was true. Next thing I know a small group of people who worked for him/use to work for him were all telling me how much they hated them. One girl said if she saw him getting mugged she wouldn't even call for help but just walk by. They even said his food isn't even that great, too much corn. I knew he wasn't that nice and was arrogant but they down right hated him.
Mario Batalli (I think I just butchered his last name) off of Iron Chef is such a nice guy. My friend got a book signed at a food show by him and walked away. Mario grabbed his shoulder and said he wanted to talk to him about his plans and dreams in the industry. They talked for about 20 minutes. My friend was on cloud 9. Mario was just giving him advice on what paths to take to get to his goal.***
indydebi....I would be like you, trying to salvage, but when it comes down to critters and their gifts, I just can't get past that. Ew! It wouldn't matter how many times I washed them, I would still picture little things all over them. The older I get, the more germaphobic I get! My family thinks I'm nuts.
txkat....I totally agree that this situation sucks. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. While you want to defend your business, it's not really a fun place to be I'm sure.
mkolmar....I was at the food show in Cleveland last year (I think?!?!) and wanted to get Giada's autograph. Well, she would only sign her book. I couldn't shell out $30 for one of her cookbooks since I had just paid about $15 for an apron so Duff and Geof could sign it. LOL! ANyway, they were willing to sign anything, but it just kinda ticked me off that she would only sign her book. Hmph.
So, I am wondering, where did everyone get the recipes you use? Are they original? I want to know what the rule is regarding recipes. .... but is it Ok to use recipes that are not original that I have gathered from many different sources?
In a nutshell: A list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. You can use any recipe you find. That is why Coca-cola, KFC, and the like go to such great lengths to protect their recipe/formula. No one person knows/or has access to the entire formula.
I knew a bakery owner who went to the same lengths to protect his King Cake recipe. Once a week he would mix up great bins of the dry ingredients used in the King Cakes. His bakers would scoop out the pre-mixed dry ingredients, mix it with the butter, eggs, etc and start baking. His employees never knew the recipe.
Here is a write up about recipes and copyrights.
http://www.recipezaar.com/help/view?iid=44
So, I am wondering, where did everyone get the recipes you use? Are they original? I want to know what the rule is regarding recipes. .... but is it Ok to use recipes that are not original that I have gathered from many different sources?
In a nutshell: A list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. You can use any recipe you find. That is why Coca-cola, KFC, and the like go to such great lengths to protect their recipe/formula. No one person knows/or has access to the entire formula.
I knew a bakery owner who went to the same lengths to protect his King Cake recipe. Once a week he would mix up great bins of the dry ingredients used in the King Cakes. His bakers would scoop out the pre-mixed dry ingredients, mix it with the butter, eggs, etc and start baking. His employees never knew the recipe.
Here is a write up about recipes and copyrights.
http://www.recipezaar.com/help/view?iid=44
I am going to be hiring a baker for next wedding season and that is exactly what I was thinking of doing, as I have spent a lot of time developing my cakes. Especailly my red velvet...the last wedding show, I had people coming back asking for more and told me I was the only bakery in the area that seemed to make real southern red velvet cake. I wouldn't want anyone to get a hold of it! I just need to figure out how the ingredients would work being mixed in a big bin..I was going to just make up batches and put them in bags...
So, I am wondering, where did everyone get the recipes you use? Are they original? I want to know what the rule is regarding recipes. .... but is it Ok to use recipes that are not original that I have gathered from many different sources?
In a nutshell: A list of ingredients cannot be copyrighted. You can use any recipe you find. That is why Coca-cola, KFC, and the like go to such great lengths to protect their recipe/formula. No one person knows/or has access to the entire formula.
I knew a bakery owner who went to the same lengths to protect his King Cake recipe. Once a week he would mix up great bins of the dry ingredients used in the King Cakes. His bakers would scoop out the pre-mixed dry ingredients, mix it with the butter, eggs, etc and start baking. His employees never knew the recipe.
Here is a write up about recipes and copyrights.
http://www.recipezaar.com/help/view?iid=44
I am going to be hiring a baker for next wedding season and that is exactly what I was thinking of doing, as I have spent a lot of time developing my cakes. Especailly my red velvet...the last wedding show, I had people coming back asking for more and told me I was the only bakery in the area that seemed to make real southern red velvet cake. I wouldn't want anyone to get a hold of it! I just need to figure out how the ingredients would work being mixed in a big bin..I was going to just make up batches and put them in bags...
That is what I have been doing, just to make my life easier, when baking mutiple of the same scratch recipe. The night before, or whenever I have extra time ahead, I mix up the dry ingredients in gallon ziplocks. On one bag I write all other ingredients going into batter for easy reference. Then on baking day it's the same ease as a box cake, but from scratch. Time consuming at first, but it's the same idea as a production line...
I would be afraid of mixing large batches and dividing up as needed only because the baking soda/powder smaller unit ingredients might get lost in the shuffle, if that makes sense.
Mix the dries in a mixer (or blender or food processor) to make sure everything's mixed.
FWIW, I'd go by weight rather than volume for the final product-- mix 1 lb Special Mix with whatever.
Just had to chime in that I love Gordon Ramsey too. People think he's just a big ass, but he knows what he's talking about. Sometimes the hard truth is the only thing that gets through.
I'll be waiting to hear about how this all pans out. Keep us updated Kat!!
So...Kat....what are you going to do about it? (aside from opening a can of old fashioned whoop-ass!)
I am taking Txkat's silence on this to mean that she IS opening a can of whoopass on this chick, and she needs to keep her mouth shut on the subject.
Does 'go all Gordon Ramsey' mean that you yell? My old boss found herself in a harassment suit because of that. A sky high hourly wage is no insurance.
I mean how can you afford to pay someone such an overly high wage? Did you mean you pay that much including all the benefits you provide? Pastry Chefs in Vegas don't make that much. Pastry Chefs in fancy schmancy hotels do not make that much. That is an extraordinary hourly wage for a decorator that is below standard.
She did you a favor to quit.
Does 'go all Gordon Ramsey' mean that you yell? My old boss found herself in a harassment suit because of that. A sky high hourly wage is no insurance.
I mean how can you afford to pay someone such an overly high wage? Did you mean you pay that much including all the benefits you provide? Pastry Chefs in Vegas don't make that much. Pastry Chefs in fancy schmancy hotels do not make that much. That is an extraordinary hourly wage for a decorator that is below standard.
She did you a favor to quit.
Yes, it means yell. Since we are both white females, and I yell at everybody when I yell, it would be tough to argue harrassment.
For a formally trained pastry chef, $18 plus and hour is the going rate in this area. There are a relatively limited number of trained pastry chefs in the area. I made more than that when I was at the restaurant.
Does 'go all Gordon Ramsey' mean that you yell? My old boss found herself in a harassment suit because of that. A sky high hourly wage is no insurance.
I mean how can you afford to pay someone such an overly high wage? Did you mean you pay that much including all the benefits you provide? Pastry Chefs in Vegas don't make that much. Pastry Chefs in fancy schmancy hotels do not make that much. That is an extraordinary hourly wage for a decorator that is below standard.
She did you a favor to quit.
Yes, it means yell. Since we are both white females, and I yell at everybody when I yell, it would be tough to argue harrassment.
For a formally trained pastry chef, $18 plus and hour is the going rate in this area. There are a relatively limited number of trained pastry chefs in the area. I made more than that when I was at the restaurant.
I understand what you are saying.
However, yelling is definitely harassment whether it's done to one or many. Also this method of management is very harmful to one's health. It does typify entrepreneurs but it doesn't have to. We get more flies with honey type of thing.
It's taking out frustrations on underlings, it's not fair and it's not nice. There's a balance there where clearly one must be assertive but leadership means people not only perform they also want to exceed your expectations. Yelling puts a ceiling on that.
Just some yelling thoughts...
I totally send you my best wishes for tremendous success in all your endeavors,
L & P,
Kate
I love Gordon Ramsey, and if he wanted to yell at me I'd take it as a sign that I needed to improve, not think of it as harassment. Maybe it's only harassment if you know that the person doing the yelling doesn't know what they're doing?? I don't understand the people on Kitchen Nightmares who don't want to listen to him...If I had a failing restaurant and he was coming to reform it, I'd do everything he told me without an argument, he knows what he's talking about!
I can't wait to watch Hell's Kitchen when it's on to see who he calls DONKEY!! And don't we all understand the feeling when he bangs his head on the wall? Too funny...
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