A Great Idea For A Start Up Business

Business By ziggytarheel Updated 16 Sep 2008 , 5:44pm by costumeczar

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littlecake Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 2:09am
post #31 of 85

dang, it does look like she was spying, and people couldn't understand a while back why i was so leary of teaching people the stuff it took blood sweat and tears to learn, i was a big MEANY...not wanting to help.

it's because of stuff like this, man this hacks me off....she didn't even bother to change the name of stuff.

i hope they can make her do her own recipes...

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OhMyGanache Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 2:32am
post #32 of 85

As an aside... since this thread links directly to her website, it is very likely she will see it.

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step0nmi Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 2:34am
post #33 of 85

i'm so sorry this happened to you. i know that everyone here is going to be all behind you about what to do. but, I know this can cause a lot of stress. I know you will do what's right but try to keep calm...I know you will handle this in a professional manner. good luck in fighting for what is right! icon_biggrin.gif

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Lenette Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 2:35am
post #34 of 85

At the risk of being attacked:

Please don't start in on IndyDebi. Anyone who has been on here any length of time knows 2 things about her; 1- she tells it like it is and doesn't sugar coat (trust me I know her personally, she doesn't sugar coat) and 2- she gives more than she takes here on CC.

The person she responded to didn't seem offended and I am sure she is capable of fighting her own battles.

Let's stick to the subject at hand and give TxKat our support. thumbs_up.gif

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Mac Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 2:42am
post #35 of 85

[quote="cous2010"]I was reading this forum just to see what was happening, but I can't resist from posting a reply. For the life of me, I cannot understand why people representing our wonderful professions and hobbies would be so nasty to each other. I understand why TxKat would be angry, with absolute cause, but what I can't understand is the harsh words exchanged with someone just wanting to add their input.

THe reason that we get so "up in arms" about stuff like this is because that person knows what they are doing in the first place. Especially if she is a member here, she knows how MOST of us feel about "using without asking". Indydebi says what most of us are thinking...but don't have the nerve to say!

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Mike1394 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 3:16am
post #36 of 85

Go TxKat. Wish you the best. Hope ya fry her butt. I really enjoy the competing part of business. This is just sneaky, and underhanded.

Mike

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OhMyGanache Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 3:19am
post #37 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac

Indydebi says what most of us are thinking...but don't have the nerve to say!




Absolutely... she just didn't say it very nicely. I think her anger was misdirected at the person posing the question. I certainly didn't attack her, I simply called it like *I* see it - or is that a privilege reserved for a select few? icon_wink.gif

I think Debi knows who I am, and I do have a lot of respect for her and what she does. However, I didn't think the way she responded to the question asked was appropriate. ... my opinion ...

I've said a few stupid things in my day, and if I pull a boner here, you can all feel free to call me on it.

thumbs_up.gif

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Mac Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 3:31am
post #38 of 85

We're OK thumbs_up.gif

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littlecake Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 6:12am
post #39 of 85

polekitten,

From here on out, this is the only account I will be posting from. To those who knew me on the other account, please do not refer to me by my real or business name... I just don't care for the drama any longer. Thanks!!!!

what's this mean?...were you formerly someone else?

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littlecake Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 6:15am
post #40 of 85

i don't think indy said anything wrong....only people with a big investment can understand the passion about something like this.

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ziggytarheel Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 12:22pm
post #41 of 85

Oops!

I just thought it was a cool idea for a business and might be helpful for someone to read about. I'd meant to post the article ever since it was in the paper a while back. I wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble. icon_sad.gif

Was this the first you heard of this?

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keljo05 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 12:43pm
post #42 of 85

i think the idea as a business has merit under the right conditions... basically as long as they are in a set location and not infringing on anyone or doing what this person did.

on a side note (isn't lovely when these topics take a side trip? lol) I'm fairly new to the boards and have only recently started posting. I'm still getting to know personalities. However, I actually didn't take Indydebi's message in a harsh tone at all. Pasionate and emphatic yes, harsh no. I think that she also gave a lot of good information. I never would have thought the investment to a full time brick and mortar business would require the amounts of money mentioned. I appreciated her honesty. I know I'm familiar with non-compete's from working with dr's and their contracts.. but they are pretty easy to understand even as a concept. What this person did was make a plan to do exactly what she did and steal vital information because she didn't want to do the hard work to learn it for herself. As I believe you get back 10x what you put out, may this person soon realize how bad that can be when you do something bad.

ok.. enough rambling... time for more coffee and do some of the work I actually get paid to do, lol

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michellenj Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 12:57pm
post #43 of 85

Good luck with this, TxKat. I know exactly how you feel. DH had an employee steal years worth of research and info from his business and start his own biz.

What really sucks is even if you win, which we did, there really is no way to force them to pay.

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Doodah Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 1:06pm
post #44 of 85

Interesting forum...considering I only bake for fun, and work in the legal profession as my career. So, if something is "unjust" I'd be the first to say, go for it! However, the law is tricky...loop holes exist.

"Most jurisdictions in which such contracts have been examined by the courts have deemed CNCs to be legally binding so long as the clause contains reasonable limitations as to the geographical area and time period in which an employee of a company may not compete."

Is your geographical area reasonable? Is two years reasonable??? And, what if this person has modified your recipe with a minor variation and says it's not exactly your recipe? Don't get me wrong...it totally sucks....and I know the hardship of small business. Definitely talk to your lawyer to find out the merits of your case.

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OhMyGanache Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 1:54pm
post #45 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecake

polekitten,

From here on out, this is the only account I will be posting from. To those who knew me on the other account, please do not refer to me by my real or business name... I just don't care for the drama any longer. Thanks!!!!

what's this mean?...were you formerly someone else?




I have had two accounts here for quite a while. One had my personal info and business name, this one didn't (it was for venting, etc.) I stopped posting on the account that had personal info because I grew weary of the CC mafia prank calling/e-mailing me when I said something they didn't agree with.

That's all.

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Jasmine33 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 2:59pm
post #46 of 85

txcat,

I haven't even finished reading this thread yet but wanted to come in to offer my support. This is terrible and you have every right to be mad!

icon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif

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snarkybaker Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 3:03pm
post #47 of 85

icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif I just wanted to thank all of you guys for your efforts. I had two glasses of wine and went to bed, I was so fumed...

The truth of the matter is that I was very nice to Tanya, we talked for a year. I knew her end goal was to open her own place, as it is for many of my employees. I gave her a job when the Washington Duke wouldn't allow her enough time with her 4 year old daughter. I let her write her own schedule and paid her well.

North Carolina is already a really tough market. Anybody with a pulse can get licensed to bake at home and it drives the prices down. To give you an idea, at the winter Wedding show, there were 12 cake vendors. 8 of them are home based operations with virtually no overhead. I have a half a million dollars invested, and a payroll of over 10,000 a month- closer to 20,000 most months.

I wrote a very fair non-compete, and yes, this was the first I had heard of Tanya selling cupcakes and scones. The good news is that she can't possibly make enough money at the Farmer's Market to support herself, and her occasion cake work was awful. She can't decorate at all. I ended up re-piping more than one cake she made while she was here, so that won't last long.

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Jasmine33 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 3:37pm
post #48 of 85

indydebi

Quote:
Quote:


ohhhhhhhh!!!! That explains it. You haven't invested $500,000 like txkat has to build an incredible business. You haven't faced the creditors when sales were slow or when the air conditioning broke down in slow season. You haven't put up everything you own and more to build a business based on your ideas and your concepts.

A business is MORE than a cupcake recipe. It's the idea, the execution, the figuring out how to get it done, the doing it, the maintaining it, the investment, the paying for it, the building the clientele, etc. etc. etc.

And for someone to come in, look around, take notes, and waltz off to duplicate your efforts ..... the law has stated that when an agreement is in place that prevents an employee from "stealing" all of this from you, then said employee can't steal this, the most valuable part of your business, from you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, and we were all in your position at one time or another ... but once you make that big investment (mine was "only" $100,000 .... a pitance compared to txkat!), then I'm confident you'll totally understand where we business folks are coming from.

We're not talking a cupcake recipe here ... it's much, much more than that.




*stands up and applauds*

I am not a buisiness owner. We sell cookies/brownies/cupcakes/banana bread to friends and neighbours, and now cakes.

A cookie customer we had, had the nerve to ask my son where we get our containers from(smart n final, I hope he didn't tell her), why our cookies taste so good, (we use real butter in them,I hope he didn't tell her), and then had the nerve to call me on then phone and ask where I got my chocolate chip cookie recipe!!!

She asked if I got it off the package. I told her No. I buy alot of books and spend alot of time researching online and trying new recipes. It is not off the package.

There is alot of money and alot of time I have invested into this. And I am sure all you ladies know, especially when it comes to caking, you spend alot of money back out. Especially in the beginning stages. Not just the boards and food supplies you spend on a cake and charge the client for. But the necessities you need. I have probably spent about $300.00 a month since I have started doing this. Just in getting setup. Maybe more. That can be a thread all its own. icon_lol.gif

Anyhow, the next time my son goes over there, her and her daughter are telling him, oh we are going to start baking and selling as well, we are going to put you out of buisiness!! blah, blah, blah.

Of course I told my son not to ever go over there any more. I was pretty pissed the way they were acting and having the gall to say that. But you know what? There is nothing I can do. It is a free country. They are just jealous of me.

I laughed and told my kids

1. If that lady could bake like I do, then she wouldn't of been buying anything from us in the first place!

2. This started as my hobby and something I love to do. This takes alot of time and alot of money. I doubt she is willing to spend that much time and money

3. Even something small like what I do takes some brain power. Not everyone can run a buisiness, even a small one. There is so much more to this than just baking!

4. I doubt her 8 y/o knows as many friends/neighbours as my 14 y/o son. or can sell like he can.

hahahahahha icon_rolleyes.gif

Okay so my point being, I know how irritated I am by that lady and her saying all that, trying to mimic me and everything I have accomplished. She never had an idea like that before she seen me do it. Her trying to "phish" and get the scoop. He trying to invite my dd over to stay the night, etc. heck no!

Now imagine that lady if this were an actual buisiness and I had spent even more money, time, energy, years, etc. into this buisiness and everything is riding on it. She at one time worked for me, had access to everything, recipes, techiniques, suppliers, etc. You have her sign a "no compete" contract and then she goes and does just that!! And steals your recipes to boot!!

txcat has every right to be angry!!! icon_mad.gificon_mad.gificon_mad.gif

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Jasmine33 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 3:39pm
post #49 of 85

txcat

Quote:
Quote:

I wrote a very fair non-compete, and yes, this was the first I had heard of Tanya selling cupcakes and scones. The good news is that she can't possibly make enough money at the Farmer's Market to support herself, and her occasion cake work was awful. She can't decorate at all. I ended up re-piping more than one cake she made while she was here, so that won't last long.




Well hopefully she will give up and call it a day then.

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peacockplace Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 6:44pm
post #50 of 85

Txkat,
I just wanted to say that I know how much time and effort you have put into your recipes and building your brand. I'm really sorry you have to deal with this. I hope your lawyer can get it taken care of.

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terrig007 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 7:04pm
post #51 of 85

How terrible for you. I did read all the links and these few lines made me laugh out loud;

Quote:
Quote:

She said she thought first of opening a regular cupcake shop, but soon found that that type of business was too expensive.

Plus, peddling baked goods from a vintage silver trailer seemed like more fun.

"I thought it's so retro -- just like cupcakes," Catolos said.



Yeah, it's expensive to open your own business as Indystated. Wonder if her Airstream has been inspected by the powers that be for cleanliness as any shop or home bakery would be? I also didn't know cupcakes were "retro". I've seen them at a lot of event s I've been to my entire life.
Looks like she may have been snooping for some great recipes and ideas. As Clare Booth Luce once so famously said and Judge Judy always qoutes "No good deed goes unpunished". Sorry that happened to you especially since you were so nice to work around her schedule with her child.

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just_for_fun Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 7:16pm
post #52 of 85

and discussing money invested: when you try out a recipe 10 times, and then it's not so good, so you try another few recipes til you find that "perfect" one, that's alot of $$$$ invested into your business to have something unique. for someone to traipse in and pluck it off of you, when you were being so nice, well that's rude!! Good luck!

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Jasmine33 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 7:40pm
post #53 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_for_fun

and discussing money invested: when you try out a recipe 10 times, and then it's not so good, so you try another few recipes til you find that "perfect" one, that's alot of $$$$ invested into your business to have something unique. for someone to traipse in and pluck it off of you, when you were being so nice, well that's rude!! Good luck!




Exactly. I have spent alot of time and money gathering up my best recipes too.

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michellenj Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 8:28pm
post #54 of 85

People know that it's wrong to steal KFC's special recipe and Coca Cola's formula, why should it be any different, just because it's not on the same scale? I'm glad you feel better, txkat.

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cuchenscm0109 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 9:44pm
post #55 of 85

Ok, I have to give my input.
Debi has been great to offer info (she has given me advice personally on my business, thanks Debi, your awsome!) and I don't think she was too harsh. I own a catering/cake business and if someone were to do this to me, I would be more than ticked. That is why I never even gave my business partner my recipes, in fear that she would give them out and screw us.
I know how it feels when someone has infringed on your business. My brothers and I inherited my fathers company when he past away a year ago and it took less than 3 months for his "best employee" to go behind our backs after my dad died and basically remove my father off of his own corporation and put himself as corporation owner and open up his own business (under my dads business name) 15 miles down the road without us knowing! I found out by accident by searching corporation info through the state. He stole our business, my fathers business, a business that took over 20 years to build! And many $ later that we will have to spend in legal fees to sue him (and trust me, it ain't cheap) we may never get our business and a lap top full of business plans, ideas, contacts, etc. back. It's like stealing secret recipes from a baker.

So txkat, I know how you feel......violated, cheated .... Starting and running a business is hard work and takes years and lots of money to do it. I feel bad for you. It's a good thing this thread was posted so that you seen what your ex-employee was doing to you.

Good luck!

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keyshia Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 10:08pm
post #56 of 85

Sorry this is going on for you Tx...sucks. Did you happen to notice on her website that it says that she also caters and does wedding cakes? I think it's pretty underhanded...especially if she knows she signed something that says otherwise.

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julzs71 Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 10:08pm
post #57 of 85

http://thelittlebaker.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/daisy-cakes-cute-yes-tasty-no/
O.k. if you don't read the above it puts it in plain....her cupcakes suck.
This could come back on txkat if they knew this lady worked in her shop.

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step0nmi Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 10:28pm
post #58 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by julzs71

http://thelittlebaker.wordpress.com/2008/09/01/daisy-cakes-cute-yes-tasty-no/
O.k. if you don't read the above it puts it in plain....her cupcakes suck.
This could come back on txkat if they knew this lady worked in her shop.




opps! icon_twisted.gif

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dbax Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 10:34pm
post #59 of 85

Stinks when you do all the hard work, make investments and someone comes along and tries to replicate it as thier own.... Hopefully there will be some justice for you.

When I was a kid, my mom newly divorced sold cakes to a ''friend'' who owned a bakery/market. This was a time consuming, layered cake, baked one layer at a time in front of the broiler, that was and remains today her ''special cake''. This ''friend'' asked for the recipe, not to sell in her store of course, but to bake for her family. Well she stopped buying from my mom, don't you know and to this day my mom shares none of her recipes. She has since tweaked the recipe and it is even better now.

There are thieves all over the place and some even pretend to be your friend.... icon_confused.gif

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snarkybaker Posted 9 Sep 2008 , 11:00pm
post #60 of 85

Her cake is gummy because she always tries to bulk bake and freeze everything. icon_surprised.gif

For what it's worth, the lemon cake recipe isn't mine. Neither is the coffee.

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