This really is the age old questions. Scratch or mix. I too had problems with this. I graduated from culinary school and thought I HAD to make everything from scratch. I have been making all of my wedding cakes from scratch and only charging $2.50 a slice. I think I lost money. Now, my standard cake price is a mix and my signature cakes start at $4.25 a slice. I prefer the mix because it takes so much less time to bake an I can spend the rest of my time decorating.

Just tell the truth people. All of the shuckin' and jiving is dishonest. To me if you have to do all of the explaining then somethings wrong....Indidebi is right. Yes she uses mix but she tells her clients the truth about it. txkat i also agree with you. and for those of you who say a scratch is not as good as a mix. come on...... you just havent found the right proportion of flour, eggs, butter. I can definately tell the difference and so can most of my clients.

One more thing.... these threads get really heated. I feel like the scratch bakers tend to get dumped on because most of us believe that box is not scratch and if you illude to that point to your clients youre being dishonest. Its to me not about the box its about the "word play" that people use to avoid the reality of what they are doing.

Didn't read all the pages, so I don't know if I'm repeating here... but just be wary of why the customer is asking - what if its an allergy? There is more in that box than sugar, flour, and leavener. And, at least in my neck of the woods, there is no WAY that box mixes are less $$ than going scratch. And if you measure by weight (much more accurate anyway) it takes no time at all.

ok, why so ashamed? I don't understand the feeling that you're not good enough if you're not using a scratch recipe and i don't get the feeling of superiority it u do? Here's the thing. Honesty is best. if you use a scratch mix...USE IT! it doesn't make you less of a decorator. I guess if you were claiming it was from scratch and that you had this wonderful secret recipe then i might be as nervous as you are but I flat out tell my customers i use a box mix and i've even had some request them and specific brands because that's what they like. So amen to them for telling me up front instead of waiting and then complaining about the cake. the only advertising i do aside from word of mouth is my myspace (www.myspace.com/pieceofcakebyjennifer) and in my description of myself i say "I use duncan hines mix or brand of choice." But my cake creations are something I am proud of. I have NEVER claimed to be a baker, i don't enjoy the mixing/cooking at all especially in the kentucky heat, but i am a decorator and I put taste first so great design PLUS yummy taste is what will bring your customers back. I think everyone appreciates honesty anyway!!

The difference here is that the business in question is in a new and open location. Where she cannot control who randomly sees the boxes and what conclusions they might draw from it and then where those conclusions might be shared with others. Which conclusions would be as varied and passionate as all of ours but less informed too because we are in the business. It would be very risky to split your clientelle before you get a fair chance with them.

All of our prejudices are real. The ones who want point blank honesty and to lead with the fact that box mixes are used here are right for themselves. The ones that use euphemisms to glance over it are right for themselves. The ones who are in the don't ask don't tell phase are right for themselves.

Putting aside the age old prejudice, it does not look at all professional to be opening tons of little Betty boxes--hello-o. I know a lady who keeps her cake mix in the walk-in lest her customers see it. She does several million dollars of business yearly.

I mean face the facts, there's stigma there as evidenced by this thread. Why purposefully throw a wrench into the works when business and everything is as hard as it is anyway. It ain't up to the op to try & single handedly sacrifice her own business to attempt to resolve an age old discrimination.

Your shop is super cute! I love the light over the counter.

I totally agree with the others that said you have to be honest. If a customer asks if it's from a box and they are paying you for a cake then you darn well better tell them the truth! You never know why they are asking... could be allergies or health reasons. You wouldn't want to mislead someone into thinking things are scratch and then have someone get sick!

I think Indydebi is right! You don't have to lie, although I don't believe anyone was trying to get you to that. I think there are some people who will only like scratch cakes but most will like the fluffy cake mix cakes too! I think most people will like cake no matter what. I like to use scratch for carrot or red velvet. I don't believe I have ever left an event and had anything but compliments. I make my own fillings and icing and I decorate nicely. If someone asks I will tell them it starts off with a mix. I also tell them that all grocery stores, walmarts and even most bakeries use a mix they are surprised but understand. I really think that most customers don't care as long as it tastes and looks good. The ten percent that don't like it can find another person to do their cake, the others can come to you !! I know that scratch baking isn't harder, measuring is measuring but taste does count I every scratch white/yellow cake I've tasted tastes almost like a cakey cornbread. Now maybe thats how a cake is supposed to taste like to some of you but to me thats just not right! I feel that scratch cakes are dense and crumbly instead of light and fluffy! Now thats my own personal opinion and I am one to everything scratch. I went to baking school and culinary and trust me most places do not do everything from scratch! I think everyone should try to do more things from scratch, just maybe not all cakes.

Another idea.... if they come in for a sampling, have a scratch and a mix to try. If they prefer the mix, they can't complain, right?

All I know is that if I asked someone if they used boxed mixes and they gave me a song and dance about "pre-weighed dry ingredients" and home baked with love, then I found out differently later, they'd lose my business forever. I don't thint that people like being lied to, so just tell them that you use mixes if they ask. Most people won't ask anyway.

I just finished baking 5 wedding cakes and 2 groom's cakes for this weekend from scratch, but if you want to use mixes go ahead. Just don't tell people that you're baking from scratch if you're not. I don't claim to be using cake mixes when I don't!

snappy comebacks for the artsy fartsy set asking about scratch:

artist type--- do you make your own paint? brushes? canvas? OH you don't! so you start w/ premade ingredients and then add the talent! ME TOO.

sewer/knitter/crochet"er" -- do you make your own yarn/thread (ie grow the sheep/cotton, card it, spin it, etc.)? make your own needles/hooks? OH you don't! so you start w/ premade ingredients and then add the talent! ME TOO.

sculptor --- do you make your own clay/steel/stone? make your own tools? OH you don't! so you start w/ premade ingredients and then add the talent! ME TOO.

writer -- do you make your won paper? pencils? pens? computer? word processing software? OH you don't! so you start w/ premade ingredients and then add the talent! ME TOO.

builder -- do you grow your own trees and then mill them into lumber? make your own concrete (which can be ordered in several "mixes")? make your own bricks? own plumbing? own wiring? paint? OH you don't! so you start w/ premade ingredients and then add the talent! ME TOO.

If asked I tell them But I use DH. If they dont like it they can go somewhere else....I am not saying that with an attitude BTW...
I know some people care, some don't I just dont have the room to store 50# of flour and everything else needed. It is easier, for me more predictable results (make sence) I dont NEED to make cake, I love to, so if the problem is the mix... then sorry. MOST people here don't care........ they just want an awsome cake......

Doug...That's protesting a little too much...By that same reasoning I could say that I only use "real" ingredients and no mixes, then add my talent to make a good cake. I get tired of people trying to imply that scratch bakers are all snobs and artsy-fartsy types. It's wearying...Like I said, just use what you want to use, no skin off my nose, but don't dance around and lie about it it someone asks.

There are hard scratch recipes and easy scratch recipes.

There are scratch cakes that are close to fool proof if you know how to follow directions and others where you need to stand on one foot and hold your mouth just right to get them to turn out.

There are scratch recipes that cost about the same to make as a box mix.

There are scratch recipes which cost more than a person should probably spend to make a cake.

Scratch vs. mix is really no definition of your baking ability or the time and care you put into your finished product. Snobbery is silly.

If I hadn't been cursed with this egg allergy, I would probably continue to make scratch recipes for special occasions and box mixes for others...just because my favorite scratch recipes take longer and cost bundles. I don't live that way every day. I'm on a time and money budget, like most of the rest of us home bakers.

But since I have to use mostly all scratch everything, I've learned there are lots and lots of ways to make scratch that take NO extra time. But I've also developed a strong ability to taste preservatives in most things.

There are lots of snobs out there...and I think you can be a mix baker or a scratch baker and fit into that category. I would think that customers who care may have good reasons for caring or may not at all. I like IndyDebi's approach. Honest but showing the customer that her cooking and baking is GOOD.

Why should you have to respond to questions about box or scratch? It's really no one's business what ingredients you use or don't use. Your response could be that your recipes are property of your business, and although you would like to share that information, due to it being of a business nature, you don't share your recipes with the public. Most people don't go into eating establishments asking to speak to the chef and quiz him/her as to whether he/she cooks from scratch, mixes, or frozen foods. Cake businesses shouldn't be any different.

Did anyone watch the episode of "Top Chef" where the wedding cake was made from scratch, and the chefs caught a lot of slack for it? If you are a trained chef, then I'm sure people expect scratch cakes. Otherwise, don't sweat it. There shouldn't be anything wrong with doctoring a cake mix. I'm a scratch baker and don't have a problem with it. You're using the mix as a foundation for other quality ingredients. Don't feel guilty and be proud of your work.

I agree with Costumeczar and Ziggytarheel. Threads like these usually have a comment like that about nobody milking their own cows, growing their wheat, etc. I never understood that because I never thought that was the definition of scratch baking. That would be taking the freshest ingredients possible, whereas, most of us see scratch as taking all of the individual ingredients and combining them to produce an edible product. Some people are proud to be able to do this, it's not a knock on someone who doesn't.

You will get heavy and dense cakes if you use a heavy and dense recipe. There IS such thing as a light, white cake that doesn't taste like Jiffy. I'm not a fan of icing on Jiffy.

There are some who bake from scratch because they want to control what's going into their food (sugar, salt, etc.). As someone mentioned earlier, there are those who may be allergic to certain dyes and chemical additives in mixes. I know a woman who has two kids like this - allergic to everything! I can bake for her and she loves it and I'm glad I can provide that.

I don't care what anyone uses - use what is best for you and what your costumers want. If they ask, be upfront, you never know why they're asking. They're still coming to you because they like what you're putting out, so maintain your confidence.

A lot of people who request scratch/whole foods/whatever else you want to call it will know that you're not doing this by of the way you answer the question. You're providing a creative answer to the question instead of a direct answer and they will likely thank you for your time and keep shopping.

This is really the most important reason to be honest with your customers. I don't care at all if a baker's preference is to use mix or if a chef starts from frozen and canned. I just want to know the truth about it if I ask. I don't have food allergies, I just want to know what's on my plate. I can tell the difference between fresh and canned, mix and scratch, because I only eat fresh/scratch, so if you're not honest with me and I've paid you for it, I'm going to be one p***ed off customer if I find out that's mix cake on my fork. But what about the customer with a medical reason to stay away from food additives or preservatives?

The other thing I wanted to say is that the number of people who are demanding scratch products & whole foods (for whatever their reasons may be) is growing and these folks are becoming increasingly more educated on the differences between whole and processed by both taste and sight.

The point is would you wag the boxes around out in the open like she has to do in her awesome and open new kitchen?

Here's the definition of 'but'
but ( ) conj. On the contrary: the plan caused not prosperity but ruin. Contrary to expectation; yet:

Just a random definition I got googling. So the statement could read:

"Honest and contrary to expectation showing the customer that her cooking and baking is GOOD."

So contrary to the expectation that mixes aren't good, Indy tells folks her stuff is good and she has a ton of momentum While op does not have a ton of momentum in her new space.

You do all see the prejudice doncha? Or else there would be no discussion. If we could all admit it's there that goes a looong way. Yes of course it shouldn't be there but contrary to expectation it is!

Truth should always be tempered with grace.
Pure truth, pure honesty is kinda ugly. It's still true though.

In this case she would have no opportunity to apply the grace and save face, protect her business.

If someone has an allergy to preservatives then they know that the packaging on a jillion products alone carries preservatives that can hurt them. If someone has an allergy to food additives they say I have an allergy to lecithin can we avoid that in your products? Or I know lecithin is an emulsifier in cake mix so I can't eat that. So you whip out recipes.

Those same additives could be in lots of other products so you ask. "Do you have msg or soy in your stuff?" If you have an allergy you talk about what it is you're allergic to.

I don't know anyone who is allergic to cake mix per se. Doctors do not test for cake mix allergies. Thee question scratch or mix has nothing whatsoever to do with allergies. Someone is taking your inventory when they ask that, sizing you up. Yeah huh.

Yea, for sure Ziggy, totally gotcha. But some folks are acting like it doesn't even exist. Co-ome o-on, y'know?

You know there's a lot of preservatives on packaging right? Like the package the flour comes in and the box the cereal comes in. I had my kid on a preservative and additive free elimination diet---and we all survived somehow.

Oh but you're off it now? Cool--very difficult huh.

The point is not whether or not one should or shouldn't bake from scratch. That is a personal/business decision. The point is that if someone takes the trouble to ask whatever their reason for asking, it is because it is important to them. Maybe its allergies, or maybe its a political " I don't want to buy food from the same company that packaged the poison dog food" or maybe its just because they really liked your cake at another event and they're curious. Whatever the reason, they are using it is a criteria in their decision making and deserve an honest answer.

I absolutely hate the "You don't mill your own flour or collect your own eggs or milk your own cow.. or you didn't create the universe" bullcrap that people tout off to justify their own views. This is not what the scratch vs mix debate is about.

I love you Doug, but your whole schpeal was totally off point. It's not about asking the artist if they grind their own pigments to make paints.. but asking if they used a paint by number picture or a blank canvas to create their art. Or asking the builder if they built a house using a pre-fab pattern where they just put side A next to side B and attach them you have a house or if they took actual plans and built a home piece by piece from the foundation up. Both can be beautiful.. but not the same. One option has a lot of the work done for you and the other takes more patience. Which is better?? It's not for me to judge. I know which is better for *me*.. but I would never impose my views on anyone else. I'm a firm believer that it takes all kinds of people to make up this wolrd of ours. Just be honest.

And if I was a mix baker.. to answer k8memphis.. I would have no problem having mixes where people could see them. If they asked me I would tell them anyway so why would I care if they saw the mixes?

OK, I don't sell cakes but from a "buyers" perspective (and this is just me), I really don't care how or where the cake is coming from, whether it's a box or scratch, I'm paying you to make a good cake and decorate it for me because I don't have the time or knowledge or whatever the reason may be. They are paying for your time to make/decorate, they are paying for supplies and they are paying for a good tasting cake, so if you are supplying this you should have no worries .
Did I just say the same thing twice?? Let me put the pipe down...

I like the premixed "dry ingredient" thing.

Loooove the cake shop!!

A simple, simple, honest answer is to have your flour, sugar, spices, and extracts at eye level. Have a few box mixes sitting out with them. That way, if someone prefers from scratch or box, when the question is asked of you. simply say, "It is your choice... I am the best at using all of them! Do you want me to use cream or sour cream, eggs or egg substitute, and what allergies do you possess?" No one cares... if you can do both, then you are better than all the others who just use a mix!

Customers want options and want to know all that is going into their mouth... after all, they want to know for what they are paying! So, if you have your stock displayed, they will not even ask.

Do not lie; give them the choice... put your price list up without saying it is for box mixes or from scratch... just do it per serving. They are the ones who get to choose whether it is chocolate or vanilla, mix or no mix, nuts or no nuts, etc.

You are making a mountain out of a box mix. I would be more concerned if you were putting chemicals like aspartame or splenda in my cakes and frostings without my knowledge. That would really tick me off if I were a customer; not whether it came from a cardboard box or a paper sack. Embrace the differences and let them know you are such a good baker that you can do either of them as requested.

I Love the debate--and that's all I'm doing--completely level nothing personal debate.

I concur that I would work with someone on allergies I concur that witholding information that could hurt someone's health is unthinkable.

Let's put allergies aside and center on the prejudice involved.

I totally respect and see your point not to mention very well written and to the point.

But I could not disagree more. What if it's a competitor at a bridal show wanting to sway business in front of customers? Because the answer can adversely and unfairly profile my business and therefore hurt my livelihood. Declaring either way can hurt you depending on the feelings of the person. Why divide your market?

When I had a business I did not reveal any of my secrets--I make this killer casserole 'stuff' that was my highest price menu item--had Campbell's soup in it--you think I didn't hide those cans in the trash and by the same token nobody would even think to ask me if it had canned soup in it--ain't none of their concern how I make my stuff.

I would talk ingredients some with a customer but there's nothing implied anywhere that I have to dance to anybody else's jig. In fact you can not reveal a lot of stuff --you have to make your own decisions--it's not up to someone else to set my pace. There are thousand's of curious questions that a business should not answer like how much do you pay your help how much is your light bill. Maybe someone wants to know how solvent you are so they can feel good about booking a cake with you. Full disclosure full disclosure --you gonna fork over your books? Post your tax return? No of course not. None of their beeswax.

Ok closer to point about food, how about we all post all our inventories and the stale dates and etc.? That would actually make more sense but no never I'm not proposing that.

I am not bound to satisfy anyone's curiosity especially at the potential expense of my livelihood just because I'm asked.

But the biggest reason is most people get it so wrong.

If they think it's good and they have box mix prejudice then it's a great scratch cake and vice versa. But 9 times out of ten they are dead flat wrong.

So if it made a difference in some real way maybe. But since it clearly does not no, not me.