Don't You Just Hate It When People Do This?! Kinda Long

Business By fabfour Updated 7 Oct 2007 , 7:02pm by ANicole

fabfour Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
fabfour Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 8:20pm
post #1 of 39

I got a call about a month ago wanting a wedding cake for 10/6. The couple came over and picked out their cake. It will be a dummy 14" round, 12" & 8' round white cake with buttercream filling. The anniversary tier (6") is to already be packaged for freezing. It will have fondant drapes with silk flowers all stacked. Plus they ordered the "catered package" which I include punch, mints, nuts, coffee and plates, forks and cups. All this for $140.00 Okay, I gave them my contract and explained my payment policy which is I have to have full payment 2 weeks in advance. They begged and pleaded (I know, I know) so I caved and the guy said he would get paid on the 26th and he would be here with money NO LATER than the 28th. We agreed on everything and they left. Once I was gathering all my stuff I realized I didn't get a signature on the contract icon_eek.gif . I saw the guy a few weeks later and he told me they changed the time of the wedding from 1pm to 3pm. and again he said he would have the money by the 28th. Well, no money. I wanted to call and tell the bride I wasn't going to do the cake but DH talked me into just calling and giving her another day. So I called and left a message that I was just touching base with them and making sure everything was still a go for next weekend since I've not received payment or heard anything. About a minute later she calls back and said that she was on her way shopping right now and it would be late when she got back so she would bring payment by the next day. I told her that I'm not usually home on Sundays so she started to say something about Monday and I said "No, just leave it in the mailbox" when I returned on Sunday night there was no money. I told DH that if I don't get money on Monday then there will be no cake. I don't want to do this cake for other reasons as well. At 11:45 this morning I got a call from the groom's dad and he was giving me the run around about how he is trying to help them out because they don't have the money and he doesn't have the money either, could I wait until Thursday. I almost laughted at him. I told him that I couldn't wait, I needed payment today, I have stuff that I had to buy and some of it isn't cheap, that this isn't something I could just throw together in one day. He finally said that he would write a check and cash it at our local grocery store and bring me the cash because it would take a few days for the check to get to the bank and if it bounced the grocery store wouldn't say anything since his cousin owns it!! icon_eek.gif I told him okay because I have to have cash now. Here it is 3:15 and still haven't seen any money. If I don't have the money by morning, I'm NOT doing the cake.
The nerve of some people. I'm proud of myself for standing my ground this morning but could just KICK myself for not getting a signature on the contract!
Now I do need advice...Suppose I call in the morning and tell her that I won't do the cake and they come over with money either tomorrow or Wednesday, do I still refuse the cake or do it at the last minute. I don't think it will be that hard but I don't know I've never done the mmf drapes. I just don't want to start something that is always going to happen. But we could use the money I'm a sahm of 4 so I could always use the extra. What to do...what to do???

Missy

38 replies
beccakelly Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
beccakelly Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 8:30pm
post #2 of 39

are you even going to make any money on this cake?!?!?! you are making a 6,8,10,14 (even though the 14 is a dummy, it needs to be charged the same as a real cake, your decorating time is the same) that would be about 154 servings (wilton) my min price for BC only would be $385. plus you're doing a "catered" package?!?! up the price to $4 per serving for a total of $616.

don't do this cake! not only will you likely lose money on it, they haven't paid you yet!! tell them kindly to go to the grocery store.

peg818 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
peg818 Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 8:31pm
post #3 of 39

at $140 for all that you are offering them, you can't be making much money at all. I figure you might, and i do mean might clear $40 in profit. That to me just isn't worth being jerked around on payment. They would expect no one else to wait on thier cash, cause if they did they would be having a pot luck dinner in the back yard. In thier jeans and cut offs.

Sorry if i sound harsh, as a SAHM, you already do enough for free, don't give yourself away to your customers too.

Carolynlovescake Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Carolynlovescake Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 8:53pm
post #4 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by peg818

as a SAHM, you already do enough for free, don't give yourself away to your customers too.




DITTO!

fabfour Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
fabfour Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 9:04pm
post #5 of 39

Thanks for the support!!!
I charge $1.50 per serving not counting the 6" I do the anniversary tier for free and the 14" dummy is a $20.00 flat fee. According to the Wilton book I have is a 12" and 8" is 80 servings.

I'll keep everyone updated on whether or not they pay....

beccakelly Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
beccakelly Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 9:37pm
post #6 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfour

the 14" dummy is a $20.00 flat fee.




okay, i don't mean to sound harsh, but people have got to stop doing this! it seriously undermines the rest of us who do this for a living when we tell brides how much dummies cost. they are the same amount of work as a real cake, the styrofoam costs the same if not more than the ingredients to bake the cake (a 14 inch cake costs me about $10 in ingredients, a 14 inch dummy costs about $10 at my cake store). everyone who reads this please please please charge the same for dummies as real cakes!! your time is valuable!!

now as far as the free anniversary tier, thats great, but may i suggest a much more economical way of doing it? offer to bake a free cake next year at their anniversary. they must remind you about it 4 weeks in advance in order for them to get the free cake. odds are they will 1. forget 2. be divorced 3. not care. you will sound so nice to the customer, because everyone loves free, fresh cake, but you will not always lose out on hte time and money to make that 6 inch cake.

now, as far as your price. $1.50 per serving for a tiered wedding cake with punch, mints, plates and forks? you've got to be joking. 1.50 is what someone should pay for a sheet cake with no delivery and no frills. for what you're offering you need to charge at least $3.50 if not $4-5 per serving for all those extras.

please don't take this harshly, but you will spend your life working your A** off for no money and you're undermining the prices of hte rest of us who do this as a means to make a living.

keep smiling and keep baking!! im off my soap box.... thumbs_up.gif

indydebi Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
indydebi Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 10:11pm
post #7 of 39

They don't have much money. Huh. Neither do you, that's why you need it way in advance.

They are screwing around until Thursday, like they originally wanted. I would suggest telling them, when they bring the money on Thursday, "I'm sorry ... you waited so long that there just isn't time to make the cake now." You have been more than generous.

Poor planning on their part does not constitute an emergency on my part.

I also offer a full package that includes: cake, plates, forks, / punch, cups / mints, nuts / tablecloth-skirting/ delivery, set-up / I stay and cut the cake / clean up and tear down. My price is $6/person for this package.

MustloveDogs Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
MustloveDogs Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 10:52pm
post #8 of 39

I wouldn't do the cake now. They have taken advantage of you. If you set a final date of payment by today, then stick with it and if they turn up with money tomorrow. Say Sorry, it is too late, I needed longer to allow icing to dry.

fabfour Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
fabfour Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 11:17pm
post #9 of 39

Thank you all for your replies and support.

Indydebi I was wanting for your reply!! I only wish I lived close to you. I know all of you think I charge way too low and believe me I wish I could charge more but I'm serious when I say the people around here just won't pay high prices. My mil charges $2.00 a serving for the same thing I do and people complain she charges too much.


Missy

indydebi Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
indydebi Posted 1 Oct 2007 , 11:24pm
post #10 of 39

The REASON everyone thinks her $2/serving is too high is because YOU are charging $1.50!!!! If you raise yours to $2, then the $2 would not be the "too high" price .... it would become the "going rate" price.

Sounds like you are your own worst enemy.

cakesbycathy Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakesbycathy Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:00am
post #11 of 39

Why are you waiting until morning?
It's great that you stood your ground this morning!! Now call now and tell them that unless they are at your door in the next 30 minutes with full payment in cash you are no longer doing their cake. They are taking advantage of you. Don't let them.

FrostinGal Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
FrostinGal Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:12am
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesbycathy

Why are you waiting until morning?
It's great that you stood your ground this morning!! Now call now and tell them that unless they are at your door in the next 30 minutes with full payment in cash you are no longer doing their cake. They are taking advantage of you. Don't let them.




ITA, they've pulled your chain long enough! They sound like they are hoping to play upon your emotions and get the cake for free. (Honestly, I don't think payment is ever going to show up.)
Call them now and let them know that you have gone above and beyond in giving them second chances, but you are sorry, you will be unable to make their cake, as there is simply not enough time, now. Then pour a glass of wine and relax.

KittyPTerror Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
KittyPTerror Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:29am
post #13 of 39

You know, you really aren't charging enough. Even at a cheap cafe a piece of plain sheetcake costs more than $1.50/serving, and that's just the cake- it doesn't include mints and nuts and punch and coffee! If people complain you're charging too much, I don't think I'd want to do business with them! It ticks me off (and it should tick you off, too) that they wouldn't try and pull this kind of crap- talking down prices, putting off payments-with a bigger company, but they think they can do it with you. You're being hardcore taken advantage of, and way undercharging makes people think they can push you around I think.

maisyone2 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
maisyone2 Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:32am
post #14 of 39

I have to agree with everyone else here. I'd call them and tell them they need to find someone else to supply the cake. You have to draw the line somewhere and today would have been it for me if I were in your shoes.

tdybear1978 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
tdybear1978 Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:33am
post #15 of 39

I don't think that I would even call them now. you have told them repeatedly about the deadline. If they show up tomorrow with the money, just say "i'm sorry but when we spoke yesterday I told you I had to have it then and you did not come and now I am not available for this day" it is ridiculous to be treating you like this. the nerve of some people

Kitagrl Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Kitagrl Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:34am
post #16 of 39

I"ve never done a dummy cake but I would charge the same as well... otherwise you are going to be decorating the largest tier of the cake for free.

I am a SAHM of four as well and I've come to the conclusion that unless I'm getting good pay per hour, I don't have time to decorate cakes. I try to get $12-$15/hour for my time (only counting actual profit) although sometimes for smaller cakes it cuts it close. I was getting to where cake decorating was no longer fun, no longer worth it...that's when I decided I had to up my prices. I know it depends on your area how much you can charge...but no home baker should be charging Walmart prices.

They got such a good deal, they should have paid you on the spot to reserve their date! I say no cake.

fabfour Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
fabfour Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:37am
post #17 of 39

Indydebi, you've made a good point, I guess I've never thought of it that way. My mil has been doing this for 25+ years with all that experience I feel like I don't have the experience to charge that. I hope that makes since. I guess what it boils down to is, I just don't think I'm good enough to charge more. I know I'm my own worst enemy, that's something I need to out grow icon_biggrin.gif .

It's 7:35 pm right ...no money yet....


Missy

alisoncooks Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
alisoncooks Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:37am
post #18 of 39

I totally agree with all the above. If these people truly don't have the money, then (so sorry to be mean) but they can do like other financially-challenged people (myself included cause this is what I did) and realize they cannot afford a custom-made cake! And they certainly have to know that the local grocery store wouldn't allow them to not pay when told...

ceshell Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
ceshell Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:50am
post #19 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfour

the guy said he would get paid on the 26th and he would be here with money NO LATER than the 28th.

About a minute later she calls back and said that she was on her way shopping right now and it would be late when she got back so she would bring payment by the next day.

He finally said that he would write a check and cash it at our local grocery store and bring me the cash because it would take a few days for the check to get to the bank and if it bounced the grocery store wouldn't say anything since his cousin owns it!! icon_eek.gif




These are dishonest people and, as everyone before me has said, they are truly trying to take advantage of you. Five days before the wedding and they are still stringing you along? And the father has admitted to being OK with ripping off his cousin?!!!!

I understand your concern about not being "experienced" enough to command a certain price, but surely you're worth the cost of the ingredients, supplies, and...what...sheesh at least minimum wage?

If it were me, I would hope and pray that at this point they did NOT bring that money, I would soo not want to do the cake.

indydebi Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
indydebi Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:50am
post #20 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfour

I just don't think I'm good enough to charge more.




If you don't believe in the value of your craft, then how do you expect other people to believe or be convinced of the value of your craft?

Is your MIL a CC'er? If not, she needs to pop on here. Unless you are around other cake decorators, especially a forum like this, you can end up living in your own little world with no idea of what is going on in other parts of the world. I see this SO often in older decorators who don't have the advantage of the cameraderie of places like CC.

It's also very common for "us older people" to tend to think in terms of pricing when WE were a bride and not in today's pricing. I see that a lot, too. My cousin, who is a realtor, says his hardest job is convincing older people what their house is worth. THey've lived in it for 50 years. They paid $12,000 for it. If they can get $30,000 they think they've hit the big time! Realtor says it's harder than all git-out to convince them the house is worth $115,000!!!!!! But they haven't bought a house in 50 years. They've no idea what the market is like.

I think most will agree that I'm one of the "charge what you're worth" advocates on here, but I learned ALL of that after I became a CC'er. I was one of those living in my own little world. My first steps thru the forums shocked me at what other people were charging for cakes. Fortunately, I didn't develop the "oh they would NEVER pay that for MY cake" attitude ..... I developed the "if THEY can get it, *I* can get it!" attitude!! thumbs_up.gif

tyty Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
tyty Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:52am
post #21 of 39

I had a bride that came over for a consultation in January, the wedding was July 16. She came over in March and gave me a down payment. The final payment was due June 30. I reached her on July 3rd, she said she would bring the money on the weekend. I wished I would have told her I would not do her cake. She made the final payment 1 week before the wedding. It was my own fault for not sticking to the contract. She is the niece of a co-worker. I will never let this happen again. I don't care who it is. If the $ is not paid on time, no cake!

indydebi Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
indydebi Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 12:57am
post #22 of 39

Because of the influence of fellow CC'ers, I added this to my Terms of Agreement:

Any payment not received as scheduled will constitute a cancellation on the part of the client and Cater It Simple will not show up at the event.

darrahmomof3 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
darrahmomof3 Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 1:06am
post #23 of 39

I recently got an "indydebi speech"!! LOL She told me I was underselling mysell. I up my prices. I also live in a small town where people really don't like to pay alot. I have decided that I put alot of work into these cakes, and I SHOULD get my sair share from them. If you want to charge 1.50 per serv. atleast charge extra for the extras. I am also a SAHM of 3 , we need all the $$$$ we can get. S far no one has complained.

By the way, either I would NOT do the cake or Charge them an inconvenice fee for the trouble you will have to go to in order to get the cake done. Let them know this is the way you make your money, you had a slot reserved for them that could have been filled by someone else. I understand you 100%. Just don't let them walk on you.

fabfour Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
fabfour Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 1:08am
post #24 of 39

Okay ladies...here it is....

7:58 pm and the bride shows up at my house with a MONEY ORDER!

SO.... I guess I will be doing the cake after all BUT I want to let you all know that I truly value all the insight you have given me and I will be darn sure from now on to get a signature on the contract and STICK BY THE DEADLINE!!!

As far as my price goes, I had already decided to raise my prices after the first of the year, I think I will raise it a little more than planned. I will start charging the $2.00 a serving for b/c and $2.75 for fondant.


Thank you all again for EVERYTHING!

Missy

indydebi Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
indydebi Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 1:34am
post #25 of 39

(And your fellow CC'ers all breathe a sigh of "well done!" as we go into the phone booth and change back into our Clark Kent clothes!!)

icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

loriana Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
loriana Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 4:45pm
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by beccakelly

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabfour

the 14" dummy is a $20.00 flat fee.



okay, i don't mean to sound harsh, but people have got to stop doing this! it seriously undermines the rest of us who do this for a living when we tell brides how much dummies cost. they are the same amount of work as a real cake, the styrofoam costs the same if not more than the ingredients to bake the cake (a 14 inch cake costs me about $10 in ingredients, a 14 inch dummy costs about $10 at my cake store). everyone who reads this please please please charge the same for dummies as real cakes!! your time is valuable!!

now as far as the free anniversary tier, thats great, but may i suggest a much more economical way of doing it? offer to bake a free cake next year at their anniversary. they must remind you about it 4 weeks in advance in order for them to get the free cake. odds are they will 1. forget 2. be divorced 3. not care. you will sound so nice to the customer, because everyone loves free, fresh cake, but you will not always lose out on hte time and money to make that 6 inch cake.

now, as far as your price. $1.50 per serving for a tiered wedding cake with punch, mints, plates and forks? you've got to be joking. 1.50 is what someone should pay for a sheet cake with no delivery and no frills. for what you're offering you need to charge at least $3.50 if not $4-5 per serving for all those extras.

please don't take this harshly, but you will spend your life working your A** off for no money and you're undermining the prices of hte rest of us who do this as a means to make a living.

keep smiling and keep baking!! im off my soap box.... thumbs_up.gif




Hey Beccakelly, I just wanted to say, I know what you are saying, but I don't think we should impose our standards on Missy in terms of pricing specifics. Indydebi gave some good advice as to not generally underestimating and considering what our time is worth. But it isn't right to tell her she shouldnt charge a flat rate for a dummy cake.

She likely isnt a competitor of ours (just her mom in law) and if that is her pricing structure, it isn't up to us to criticize. I know what you are saying about charging the same rate for a dummy cake, but in reality, a dummy cake doesnt even take the time a real cake does, nor the ingredients. Yes, it is $10 for a good 3-4" high dummy, but it can be reusable and only costs the time to decorate plus frosting.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is, we can't tell others how they should run their business. We can only give general advise. I don't think she is doing wrong if her practice is to charge a flat $20 rate for a dummy cake.

Hope everything goes well with your cake this weekend, Missy.

-Lisa (Loriana)

indydebi Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
indydebi Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 5:04pm
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriana


Yes, it is $10 for a good 3-4" high dummy, but it can be reusable and only costs the time to decorate plus frosting.




In the spirit of general advice, allow me to add that yes, a dummy is reuseable, but you have to establish your pricing based on the assumption that you have to buy everything for that order.

What if your dummy is worn out and you need to buy a new one? What if someone didn't return it? What if it was damaged? YOu have to store them, and those who pay rent for every square footage of space know that space for storage is a real expense. There is a maintenance and upkeep cost involved, which is just as real of an expense as eggs and oil.

It's like chocolate covered strawberries. I have to price them based on my highest berry price for the year, because I cant' assume I will only get an order for them during peak season. A flat of strawberries in March costs me three times the price as the same flat in May. I have to establish pricing based on the worst case scenario .... be it buying berries in March, or buying a dummy cake that I may not have in stock.

beccakelly Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
beccakelly Posted 2 Oct 2007 , 5:08pm
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriana

I don't think she is doing wrong if her practice is to charge a flat $20 rate for a dummy cake.




the whole dummy cake issue has been discussed at length here on CC. (search the forums) the general consensus among most people who do this as a business is to charge the SAME for dummies as real cakes. it takes no longer to ice and deco a real cake as it does to ice and deco a fake cake. (ask indydebi if you want, i know i've seen her say this as well). baking time is negligable because im already baking a 6,8,10, adding a 14 inch to the oven at the same time takes me maybe 10 minutes longer. and will she get her dummy back in reusable condition? many times not, and if she does, will she have another occasion to charge someone for the use of a 14 inch dummy? maybe, but no one should count on it.

[/quote]we can't tell others how they should run their business.[/quote]

if you read what i said it included begging not telling people how to do things:
"please please please charge the same for dummies as real cakes!! your time is valuable!!"

ozcake Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
ozcake Posted 3 Oct 2007 , 1:53am
post #29 of 39

Fabfour good on you for the decision to up your prices thumbs_up.gif

Since you are going to do the cake anyway now you could think about doing this experiment - make a note of how much everything for this package costs the ingredients, the plates, forks, cake boards, flowers, everything and also keep a record of how long this takes you include preparation and baking time, decorating time, shopping for ingredients, delivery etc etc (you might even want to add in the time you took chasing these people for the money). Then work out your profit (Sale price less your cost price) and then divide it by how long it took to work out how much you are earning an hour for this job. It might be helpful for planning and quoting on future jobs and you may be surprised at the result.

maryjsgirl Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
maryjsgirl Posted 3 Oct 2007 , 4:10am
post #30 of 39

I really think you should tally everything you spend on this cake after all is said and done. I just can't believe you are making anything at all. Like someone else said $40 at the most. You should also tally how much time you putt into the baking, decorating, cleaning, shopping, and you will actually be at the wedding serving right?

Your precious time is definitely worth more.


Oh and I would be interested in knowing what your cost for the catering package amounts to if you don't mind sharing. I always thought that would be a nice extra to add.

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%