Okay for background my child who just started third grade was part way through a fifth grade reading curriculum last year at the end of second. He was doing third grade spelling. They school was making him do all the regular class reading work Monday and then he would do the other stuff when he was finished with all the work pages, he was going through these independantly mind you so not alot of help from the teachers. We had been told that he'd get to do it again this year.
He's one of those kids who won't work hard if he isn't challenged, he'll screw around or not work fast if they won't let him do extra stuff and his other subjects suffer because he isn't happy with reading which is the longest class of the day.
I stopped in to talk to the teachers today and found that they don't want to let him do his own stuff. I was told that he needs to do this for comprehension and "skills" and he isn't finishing his stuff much faster than the rest of the kids. Well of course not when they're making him sit through the explination on how to do it before each worksheet. As far as comprehension he's reading Lord of the Rings and has finished all the Harry Potter books, I can tell he understands what he's reading since I've read them too and we can discuss them so why does he need work on third grade comprehension? That and he was doing fifth grade work last year so I think he probably knows at least 95% of what's presented in third grade.
They're also worried about him sitting off on his own, well it's better than him trying to get out of school every day. And they said he hasn't been complaining, well of course not becuase we thought they were waiting until they had everyone settled to set him up and he'd been told that.

This is a child who scored in the 97th% on the standard tests that they give the students and the teachers know it.
The school keeps giving me this "they need to work in the same series or they might miss something" crap and I don't buy it for a minute, I spent my childhood moving in and out of schools and none had the same series and I'm highly literate (I just can't spell). All the curriculums repeat things several times through the years.

how high up in the school have you been talking to??
I dont understand why if its all the same administration that you worked with last year, why are they pulling this kind of crap on you now???

Not an ideal thought but you might want to consider having him switch schools- I know school started already but its better than him wasting a year with teachers that obviously have no interest in challenging him.

Update:
I talked to one of the GT teachers and she agrees that he doesn't need to be sitting through the reading lesson, she's had him since kindergarten so she knows that he doesn't work well if he isn't challenged. We have our IEP (individual education plan) meeting set for Thursday and in her words "that's what the IEP is for, to MAKE them do what we want if they don't want to do it." I'm happy with her because she sounds like she'll back me up.

One other option. I had the same problem only my son was gifted in Math. The school in Nebraska had what they called 'challenge' program, which was a gifted program and my son did the same as yours. When we moved to Calif. the teachers and principal gave him the tests, admited he's way ahead, but refused to let him do the advanced work. the Ca school system here is awful and the teachers and admin just don't care in our school system whether the kids are challenged or not. My son would have become a trouble maker and lazy just from sheer boredom if I didn't do something.

The solution, I took him to after school tutoring (semi private) that would challenge him. Yes, it did cost money, but wasn't too expensive, and at least he was challenged and had something to do in school when he was done with their 'busy' work. I also found the Junior colleges will accept kids in middle school in their classes for when he's older.

The rest of the community here can jump on me, but my real life experience from the teachers and admin in the elementary school in our area showed me they could care less about the really gifted kids.

Once you get in the upper grade levels you will find a few teachers that will help you with an advanced curriculum. You have to be your son's advocate and don't be shy about pushing (nicely)with the principals, counselors, up to the superintendant. Good luck.

No Child Left Behind....

HA...what a lie....

you see in action in this class with your son, the results of that law w/ all it's focus on testing

it DOES leave children behind...

those who classify as gifted and talented!

Well I think that the teacher who told me that my son needed to cover the "skills" was trying to prove me wrong. She called this afternoon and said that she had gone and gotten some tests from the reading department, she gave them to him and figures that he needs to be doing late 6th to early 7th reading. I think it's kind of funny because this morning she was telling me he needs to be with the class and now she doesn't want him touching the grade level stuff.
She said that she's probably going to give him the end of the year test before the meeting Thursday to use it to convince the administration that he shouldn't have to do any grade level reading which is a huge turn around from this morning when she felt he'd be fine with the group. She is going to pass around the tests to the other 3rd grade teachers to find out if any other kids are this advanced (I'm sure some are above grade level but I wonder if any are THIS far above) so they can form a group.
I think their problem was that they had a kid last year who read quickly but wasn't bored to death (or didn't show it and the parents didn't say anything) so they figured they could do the same with my child.

The administration is my last hurdle now, they're the ones who believe the line given by the publisher of the reading series that kids have to stay with their grade level or they might miss a skill. It's the dumbest line I've ever heard since kids move and don't stay in the same series all the time and still learn to read. And this includes kids who test out.[/center]

They gave me the same line of cr&* about the math. My son tested out of their 3rd grade math, they admitted he tested into 8th grade math, but would not let him advance. Thus the semi-private tutor. He was doing the quadratic in 3rd grade and the stupid teacher came to me and said, "oh, he did his multiplication tables the first time through, it was such a suprise" Hello... don't you read the tests your students take?

Doug's right, they don't look out for the gifted any more here either.

Just stick to your guns, you are the best one to look out for your son's interests. I'm sorry to say you have a tough road ahead though, I've been there (my son's a senior now).

Just a thought: Can you home-school him in reading? If the class is at the end of the day, this might work out, depending on your schedule.

I'd ask for a detailed list of "skills" he'd be missing out on if he skipped the reading series. That sounds like bull to me.

I'm a Reading Specialist, so I know there are tests that can determine where his grade level is in reading. Ask for both the Fry reading assessment and the Gates-McGinitie reading test. If you need further info, pm me. I can mail you some info that will let YOU test him at home. However, there should be a Reading Specialist in your district who can administer these tests.

My prediction if he gets bored: He'll get into trouble in class, the teacher will say he has ADD/ADHD and will try to convince you to put him on meds. DON'T DO IT!!!

I hope your meeting goes well. Keep us posted!

I know it's a tough road, my mother traveled it with a couple of us. I was tutoring trig at the local community college at 16.

No Child Left Behind is the dumbest thing ever. The government has proof from one of their own federal school systems that it's a crock. The schools run for military brats if counted as a seperate state score VERY high (generally in the top 5) and have for years yet brats shouldn't do so well. According to popular myth they shouldn't just by virtue of the pay, most brats are from enlisted families and are poor, and then if you add in the constant moving they really shouldn't do so well. What works for them? The teachers can call Dad's commanding officer if junior isn't behaving and the parents can be ordered to attend meetings about their children, PARENTS are held responsible for their children instead of teachers. The system isn't perfect but it proves how wrong this is.

No matter what people say some children are going to be left behind, I know that our school almost made AYP but missed by two special ed kids. It totally isn't fair since it's the biggest school with the best special ed program so everyone in the area who has a learning challenged kid sends their children to this system so we have a higher percentage of them.

If we would acknowledge that not everyone has the same ablities, the kids at the high end deserve an education at their level and it isn't always the teacher's fault when a kid knows nothing maybe America could build a school plan that WORKS.

I am sorry to hear that you're having trouble so early in the school year. The situation that you're running into is commn though. I've been a high school teacher for 14 years in the public school, so I know about the issues.

Just a note of warning about the IEP system. It does sound great because you meet with teachers and they approve a "plan" for your child. There are problems with this though. Many children have IEPs (though you won't know who because it's confidential), and sometimes, it's impossible for one teacher to do all of the accomodations that they are supposed to for every child. Sometimes there's just too many kids and not enough teacher to go around. In upper grades it's even worse because often times only one of their teachers will attend the IEP and then the other teachers are mad because they get handed a slip telling them what they "have to do" concerning this child. 1 child, okay, 2 okay, 5 -10 -- it gets frustrating.

Your child is special and unique and it sounds like way above grade level in reading. The public schools are actually catering to the lowest common denominator in many cases to meet the No Child Left Behind mandate. Many, many children are suffering from this, and parents aren't aware. They think their children are doing fine because they're passing, but the standards are quite low in many cases.

I just wanted to shed some light on the fact that the teacher is probably doing the best she can with the load she's been given. If she's new, she's trying to wade through all the garbage the system is throwing at her. Your son's education is vital to him most of all. I applaud you for getting in there for him. Just don't forget that teachers have so many other kids and things going on behind the scenes and don't rest easy just because he has an IEP. One year, I got 9 IEP recommendation lists. It was literally impossible for me to do everything "required" of me. I always worked it out with the parents. Everyone won because we worked together. I know not all teachers are like this, but many are.

I hope this gets resolved for you and for your son.

S.

I am a teacher of the gifted, and I just wanted to add my "amen" to the NCLB-- except the gifted/high achievers (not all of whom are in our program). Good for you for being an advocate, but you will definitely get farther if you can avoid alienating anyone along the way. Realize that while many parents know their children well and are good judges of what is best for them, there are a LARGE number who are just pushy and want their children in gifted programs and otherwise treated differently primarily for status (for the parent- not the child). Sometimes school personnel have a hard time seeing the difference. I have dealt with many in all these categories, and it really is hard. Good luck with getting your child what he needs.

Im kinda having the same problem with my DS second grade teacher at the new school at the end of last year his teacher tested him at the end of a 4th grade reading level and then he started second grade this year and his teacher says he will be fine reading with the pack but they have a class for students with higher reading levels and she wont put him in it. I talked to his teacher from last year about it and she got furious she wants his current teachers number so she can have a word with her. Most people think im mean becauase i give my child extra homework but the stuff he is getting in class just isnt cutting it. last year in first grade math he was working on multiplying and adding and subtractting 3 digit numbers this year hes working on 4 plus 4 kinda stuff he bored to tears the teacher gives him a page of math homework at school and gives him 3o mins to complete it he completes the same math homework in 4 mins at home now tell me hes learning at a good rate??

I will probably get bashed for this, but I just want to say one thing about the No Child Left Behind, I truly believe it came from a place where the INTENTION was good, I am married to a former teacher, thus I have tons of teacher friends, so I know how horrible NCLB is for teachers...its certainly a factor why my hubby is no longer a teacher. That said, I think it was created with good intentions, tons of kids were being FAILED, and if you dont think that was happening, go to any poor area in anytown USA and see those schools.... Here in KC, MO our main district (KCMO public schools) are no longer accredited....can you imagine getting a diploma from a non-accredited school??? The KC, KS district (just across the state line) where my Hubby worked was in real danger of losing it. My hubby worked in a VERY poor area with stories that would break your heart, and test scores that broke your heart even more. Is it the teachers fault, in most cases heck no, I never met so many dedicated teachers as I did at that school (under appreciated to say the least). These kids dont have much of chance, little to no parental support, some former crack babies, some who come to school HUNGRY etc etc.... so obviously SOMETHING needs to be done. That something clearly isnt NCLB...because I dont think much is improving, but I think its really easy to sit back and say this isnt working and the government is a bunch of idiots, but how many of us truly know what is needed not just to fix "our" schools but all of them across the nation? I also wonder if we are all willing to spend the necessary dollars to create school that are catered for all types of kids (special needs, gifted, "normal" etc).....

I once saw an Oprah show where a lovely man opened a school in the poorest of poor areas in NY.... his school offered health care and parental classes as well as specialized teaching.....what he was doing was ground breaking....truly beautiful....and totally run off donations. That said, the price tag to run this totally successful school was STAGGERING...and it was for just a fraction of the students in that area....obviously what he is doing is working.....but the price tag is steep.

I just want to warn you now to get ready to fight every year for your child. I have a son that was well ahead of his piers. He was tested in 2nd grade and was reading on 11th grade level. His favorite books in 1st grade were J.R. Tokien. We put him in gifted in 3rd grade and he blossomed. He had the best Gifted Teacher. She stressed for them not to brag about being in gifted. The schools in my town are small, so the have K-2nd, in one school, 3rd & 4th in another school, 5th - 8th in another school and 9th - 12th in High School. We fought with his teachers in 5th - 8th because he had to leave the school during the day to go to another school for gifted classes. In High School we had him in all honor classes until the Principal wanted to build up Whole English classes. I don't know if you know anything about why Whole English was developed, but basically it was suppose to focus on reading as much as you can and they did not care if you knew how to spell or knew any grammar. They did not mark anything wrong on their papers, so that the children would not get discouraged. This is what we had to put up with in 5th - 8th. Well, the principal in High School was trying to build up the Whole English department and pulled all of the gifted students from their honors classes and stuck them in Whole English. We had to go to the School Board to set policy that a parent had the right to put their child in a stronger class if their child was capable. He was put back in honors and tested out of most of his basic classes when he entered college. He graduated High School and College with a 4.0. It is a long journey, but well worth it. You should see his collection of books now. He has over 1000, very thought provoking books, that he bought with his own money. Oh, by the way, he is not and never was a nerd.

My son is in the gifted program at our school. I was actually not happy about it when they told us his scores in kindergarten! How in the world can you test them that young! He is in fifth grade now and is doing well, but this year they put all the gifted kids in one class. I think this is great because last year the gifted kids were pulled out to go to the "gifted class" with a different teacher for a few hours everyday. I was afraid that the other kids would not treat these kids the same. I didn't see that, but I was worried about it. Anyway, I know how you are feeling. This year already I've emailed the teacher a few times. My son is smart, but disorganized (he gets that from me) and needs a little bit of extra help to remember his homework, what he needs to bring home, etc. Last year he almost failed a class because homework was getting lost or not done. Very strange for our son. He got the extra help he needed, but I felt like I was getting labeled as "one of those pushy parents" just because I wanted someone to help him! I hope I'm not giving his new teacher the same impression. I've given her the option of me coming in at the end of the day to get him ready to go home and they have pretty much shunned that idea becuase "he needs to learn the consequences of actions." At the cost of his education??? I've already gotten the "oh your son is one of those kids (meaning gifted)" comments because everyone knows that this teacher has the gifted class this year. Great. I don't want him to be labeled this way and I definitely don't want the status that comes along with it.

I have gotten way off topic with my story. My son loves to read (reads on the bus to and from school, after school, before bed, any time in the car, etc.) and the teachers encouraged him to sit on the reading couch in the classroom and read while other kids finished their class work. They didn't want him to be a distraction to other kids at their desks and had they were the ones that encouraged he sit by himself if that is what he wanted to do...which he was ecstatic about! I was a reader at that age as well, couldn't get enough of books, but hated to study. Go figure.

You are not alone. I'm all for gifted programs if that is what is best for the children, but I wish there was more involvement available for the parents. I'm afraid that I'm coming off as pushy.

Oh, and as far as state testing....what a waste of time. I see why they are doing it, but you should see the study book that is coming home with my son everyday! How much classroom time is going to studying for the state tests?

Anyone else thing that the school year needs to be longer with shorter breaks? I read somewhere that children forget about 80% of their previous year's information over the summer! What?!?! Get them back to school sooner. Don't shoot me teachers!

First, mbelgard, I wish we had 2 teachers for 20 kids here.

Next, MichelleM77, as hard as it is, you going in at the end of the day to organize him really will hurt him in the long run. He needs to learn consequences and learn that organizing and being responsible are important. He is old enough and MUST learn to do that part alone. He can get help-- learn to ask if he can't remember what to get, learn to make lists-- any strategies you can think of to give him, but he has to do it himself. I say this as a current teacher of the gifted and a former 5th grade teacher (11 years). I never had a parent come back to me after their children were in middle school and tell me the child had been unprepared academically or that it was a huge jump in curriculum. I had MANY say that the organization was really hard-- changing classes, different rules in different classes, getting homework to different places, etc, and that there was much less teacher support. The children are expected to be independent. As hard as it is to watch, it really is the best thing you can do for him. I know it's hard, and I hope the year goes well.

I feel your pain. People don't understand how BAD it is for really bright kids in school if they aren't challenged. they should see the statistics of high school drop outs and such for GIFTED KIDS!!! They learn to be lazy too and learn to HATE homework, because almost ALL of it is busy work for them, so then they get turned out to learning PERIOD... it's really sad.

We got Adrian into a full time gifted school this past year and it has been a LIFE SAVER. His grades weren't even GOOD in the regular classroom!!! Now they are nearly straight As (except spelling for some reason he can't spell! LOL)

We are "slightly" annoyed that now that he's in 6th grade, they don't let them grade up in math. I know they are ALL doing higher than 6th grade math and are gearing them up for HS algebra for next year, 7th grade, but our son FOR FUN worked through an entire Algebra book and workbook this summer in one MONTH!!!!

On the first day of math class this year the teacher said, "I'll give the elevator key to someone who can answer this. How do you solve -2 to the -3." Adrian raised his hand and gave him the answer. He was the only kid in 50 kids (teacher told him later he was the only in 2 classes) who knew. The teacher was dumbfounded and said, "Oh, I didn't expect anyone to know... Well, I can't give you the elevator key, so I'll give you a chewed up pencil instead).

YET, he still has to sit through all the lessons. All other years there have been placement tests - not this year. I guess if there's no room to go "up" then they have to stay with the group - even in gifted classrooms.

And really, think about it, giftedness in my county is counted as the top 3-4 percent. Well, the VARIATION in that top 3-4 percent is HUGE, HUGE, HUGE. You could have someone with an IQ of 130 and a person with an IQ of 180 in the same classroom and for the studet with the 180 IQ, this will still be way to low for their abilities. Regular classrooms are probably more homogeneous in ability level.

We see it with Adrian in spelling. he has a HORRIBLE spelling/vocabulary (which is weird since DH and I were good spellers). Yet they are working with a 12 th grade level reading/vocabulary book because MOST of the kids excel. So, in the case, Adrian is one of the slower students, so we have to work on it EVERY night. He'll learn the vocab., but misspell the word. For Math and science, he's usually one of the top and kids call him for help because some of his classmates don't excel in math and science.

Melissa

Ok..i understand some of your points of view...my daughter is in the gifted program this year. I think though that sometimes parents tend to want to control too much of what goes on in class...its understandable though because its their future.
Sometimes though..we need to let kids be kids. There are so many more pressures for them in school now than when we were kids.

My daughter also forgets things all the time, but i try to remind her and develop a remembering system with her...but i also tell her if she forgets her homework or books it is her who faces the consequences. They have to learn these things on their own to be able to cope with the real world.

Also, learning can continue in the home. Nothing says that school is the only and final place they can get education.
.

Um ..ok berryblondeboys please settle down. I wasn't talking about your child specifically. Sometimes we must learn to accept other people's opinions and points of views without jumping on them.

And i did have a child who was bored in class...she was reading and writing at levels way beyond her class. BUT I made sure that i did not excuse her if she wouldn't sit still or listen to the teacher.

Did i say that we have to teach them day and night? no! Of course i expect my children to get a good education at school. But I hear all the time from many many parents that there kids are bored...can't sit in school all day, etc etc. Well, how do you think the teachers must feel? They have between 25-30 kids they must teach each day and alot of parents feel that their kids need special attention.
I got my daughter some more advanced flashcards for spanish and math and we made a game out of it.

I was just giving a different point of view.Sorry if it doesn't agree with yours, but that happens.

isn't it funny with the spelling? His vocabulary isn't stellar either, but his spelling? Geez! LOL the rest of reading/language he's really high, (grammar usage, etc), but spelling? Wow... when he writes a story for fun, sometimes it's hard to decipher what he's trying to say. he must not be able to visualize the word. You either can or can't do that. it's not something you "learn". Kind of like being able to hear a note... you either can or can't.

I must admit, he's getting into things now that I don't know or can't help him with and DH is having to step in to explain more and more (like language weird rules - not my forte) and high math concepts and science....egad, sometimes I swear they are talking a foreign language - and not the one they usually speak (We are a bilingual family - Croatian/English). Croatian I understand! LOL

Melissa

I hope this is taken in the right spirit --

My experience with this issue is this: I've been a high school teacher for 15 years. My mother was a 4th grade teacher (high reading level) for 30 years. I have 2 children, one of whom is 4 and is already reading at the 1st grade level. I say this only to show that I'm not just spouting off without any experience in these areas.

Teaching a class full of students is a difficult job. Even 20 is hard, though every 5 students after that makes it that much harder. In the classroom, the best advice I ever heard was that each child must come first. The key there being the word CHILD -- the person. And then I was shown a visual. Imagine 20 or 30 desks, empty, except for one sentence printed on each desk. "I haven't had enough to eat." "My parents are getting divorced." "I'm a crack baby" "I'm super bright and can read 6 years above my age" "I have ADD" "I am doing okay today." Every child in that class has issues they bring into the class. Every child is valuable. The teacher's job is to figure out how to best educate all of them. The problem today is that every parent wants an individual plan for their individual child. I say this is a problem only in that it is organizationally impossible. Even though the schools will tell you otherwise, it can't happen without sacrificing some aspect of the education process. Some parents are more concerned about the ADD factor. Others want modifications so their child has time to catch up. Faster learners or those with excellent reading skills require their own modifications, and rightfully so. BUT, it cannot happen for every child at once. The teacher must be allowed to present a unified curriuclum at some point, and every student must learn to deal with it or else the teacher might as well just do independent study with each of them. Doese this make sense? All people need to learn patience and how to be kind to others. Isn't it a fair thing to say that some of the "smarter" kids need to learn patience while others catch up? Then, here's the real dilemma -- when I say that I bet the parent in you is saying, but then my kid will get behind? Won't work to his potential -- won't get ahead as fast as he could. True. But that's the dilemma of the school system. It isn't the teacher's fault. The teachers are doing the best they can with their situations.

May I suggest trying to work with them a little more instead of trying to control how they do their job? I'm not condemning anyone or wagging my finger at anyone. I've just seen it happen so many times. And, the best success I've ever had is when parents and I work together to do the best we can for that child given the realities of teaching a class of 20 or 30 or 35 as the case was for many.

If there's a gifted/gate reading program, get them into that. If there isn't, pressure the school to get one started. If you believe that your child will benefit acedemically and can handle a social move ahead in grades, do that. If you can suggest any sort of reading material that you child might read that can fit into a teacher's assignment, then do that. I just ask that you remember that a teacher is only one person and can only do so much at once.

S.