I think the women is crazy! My parents are wedding photographers and they have seen it all! Cakes fall over, cakes that are the leaning tower of Pisa, terrible tasting, and once the waiter dumped a whole tray of strawberry shortcake down the back of the bride......WOW what a mess and she just said oh well it was an accident.
The mother is being ridiculous, ask her for a picture of the cake all over the floor. Your picture looks good yea its leaning a little but I don think enough to actually fall over......? what did you sue for supports? It looks to be a center column or are the flowers hiding something?
Best of luck and please dont loose sleep over it.

Can you contact the wedding photographer? Then you can find photographic evidence of what the cake looked like at the reception.

I currently don't make cakes for a profit, but I would never do wedding cakes for just this reason. What a nightmare! I am all for avoiding stress these days!!! That said, if I were in your situation I think I would ask to see pictures of the cake. If the cake had totally fallen I would refund the total money. I would probably return my profit to her if she could not show pictures. I would let her know that I was only charging her my cost. I'm sure this must be very stressful for you. I would want to clear up the situation with her and move on. As long as this is on her mind, and hasn't been resolved, she will probably tell everyone she comes in contact with about it. I know it's hard to do, but it isn't a matter of who's right, it's a matter of closing the book and getting some peace back in your life. Just my opinion of course! Good luck in what ever you decide to do.

Tough situation! I think the cake looks great . Although you may know it's not your best work it looks fine to th naked eye. However if the customers not happy, we're in a predicament. The MOB isn't exactly being reasonable but what can you do. Personally, if i were in the situation i would; Calculate how much it cost to make the cake, I.E. cake& frosting, and reimburse the extra money. You make take a big cut but since it's your work that she's unhappy with, tell her you will reimburse her for the work but she will still be charged for the cake itself. Hopefully this will calm her down enough not to sue! I hope whatever you do it works out for you and once again, The cake is beautiful!

Happy Baking
Gloria II

I think I would tell her that the pictures that you took after you set up show that the cake looks great. Tell her that you need her to provide you with pictures of the cake after you left and during the reception, and at that time you might consider a refund. I don't know how she can expect you to just fork over a refund without proof that there really was a problem. If the cake was really leaning badly, I might give her a portion of what she paid, maybe enough that you can still cover the costs of the ingredients, especially since they still ate the cake.

I know and understand how you're feeling on the defensive and also wanting to dig your heels in a bit because of the Mom's behaviour.

There are essentially 2 reactions you could have to this whole affair., 1) feel instinctively bad and want to return money or compensate somehow, or 2) stubbornly insist that you will NOT refund any money because everything was fine when you left.

It sounds like you're having some feelings of self doubt- forget how that affects a possible law suit or how that affects the mom's next move.

Do your homework. Because in a legal situation this is what you would be asked to produce. Pull out the contract. Sit down and write EVERYTHING that has transpired from the first consultation to now- be civil and factual about it- this is a description not an opinion piece (ie I think the Mom is a ahem lol). You're merely stating facts, a completely detailed recount of events. The evidence would prove itself that she's been lying about a bunch of s tuff. No need to say 'she lied this time and that time' - just report what she said and when, what the bride said and when.
When you set the cake up you have to honestly ask yourself why it was leaning - remove all the feelings you have as a result of this 'attack on you' -. Find pictures., Go to the wedding photographer. Go directly to the source to get information and write this down. Do not rely on someone who heard someone else say. You also have your own photo.

Meanwhile, in legal interest, she has threatened you or made you feel on the defensive, however it IS in fact her job to provide proof of what she's accusing of. IF she has no ground to stand on, ie re you already feeling when you left that it was leaning some. You really have to be honest with yourself asking yourself why it was leaning. If it was a support issue then as was mentioned a few times, the compensation does fall on you- however you can handle that a number of ways. Good luck with that.

Re: legalities of owning a business/baking out of kitchen, again do your homework. March right down to the government office in charge or call, and ask, and take notes, and find out what you need to be running a business out of your home.

Ask a lot of questions, write a lot of unbiased /factual notes. Who signed the contract? What does the contract say.

If you are not in fact legally entitled to run a business out of your home, I would do as was mentioned and immediately figure out a way to refund money or compensate amicably so she doesnt think you're a pushover or think you're refunding because of her bullying or threats about your lack of business licence. Do not bring up the lack of business licence to her (if that is actually an issue- let it alone - if you are not legal, then quietly refund the money and be done with it. Then MAKE HASTE and get yourself the proper licencing and insurance before you even TALK to the next potential customer.

Good luck, and remember keep a level head in all this.

I dont have any wedding or other cake contract experience but I took a lunatic landlord to residential tenancy court' a few times and we did our homework/provided unbiased evidence/photos and let the evidence speak for itself and the arbitrator just watched him foam at the mouth and it was open shut case for us. But we left out our opinions of the whole thing. That's REALLY important. Not always easy to do when someone is attacking you but assessing everything honestly and factually is important

The cake is gorgeous by the way!

Did you have them sign any type of contract?I agree with the advise in this thread and would follow as advised.

It looks like a learning experience that is very trying at best.

1. Meet local catering/baking rquirements if needed.
2. Get pictures of any additional tilting.
3. Refund what you feel is right according to the circumstances.
If tilt only, maybe aoffer to make an 8" for their 1st Anniversary and discount the wedding cake some?

4. I'd get a contract signed on all your cakes upfront. A lesson learned on assuming that the flowers that were supposed to be there would be....I'd add that to your contract and make some calls to verify this in future orders....

What did you charge them initially? How many did it serve? What were your approxomate supply costs?

Mom may just be trying to intimidate you....but do what's right when you re contact and get the circumstances.

I think the cake is beautiful.

I do understand the whole I-was-gonna-but-now-I'm-not attitude about the refund.

This is one day that should be perfect...including the cake. A leaning cake is not perfect and a bottom tier being the root of the problem, to me, would lead to further disaster.

After adjusting the cake so it looked good from the front, did you leave with a sinking feeling and praying that nothing more would happen to it? Or did you feel like your adjustments to it would secure the entire cake, confidently?

I feel as if now is kind of late to keep the woman from going further to shut you down. You could return all of her money and she could be just as angry after as she was in the beginning and just for spite, turn you in. Or, she may have already started the process and it's too late to stop it even if she wanted.

I would give her the refund...eaten cake or not...physical/visual proof or not...you said yourself you were gonna give her back some of her money because of the leaning problem...if nothing more than to keep her from calling you again.

A suggestion for future situations, don't hesitate to try to make things right...no matter how difficult it may be...there might not always be the opportunity to make it right later.

I agree with Narie....if u are not selling cakes legally, refund all the money and get legal or stop selling cakes. Not being legal makes a huge difference. She could not only sue u for the money but then she will have the health department on your back....which might happen even if you give the money back. Selling cakes without being legal is way to risky. You never know when an angry customer will destroy your business and financial life!

Sounds to me like Daddy got upset about the costs of the wedding and mommy had to get some of the costs back and you were her only way.

Did you have a contract with the people? If so, did you stick to your end of said contract? You have a picture of the standing cake. Granted, it leaned just slightly, but what cake stands perfectly straight? You can fight the lady if you want, but if you are not licensed and she pushes the issue, I would offer her a percentage of the cake back. Leaning or not, you still need to be paid for your work.

I would refund her some of the money but not all, I like the idea of refunding anything over your cost. On principle I wouldn't want to, she was rude and pushy and probably nothing happened as bad as she is saying but the unlicensed fines could be huge. I doubt she would really do anything, she seems the empty threat to get what I want type but it's too big of a $$$$ risk to call her bluff.

I would try and talk to someone unbiased that was there, the photographer or someone else not related/not a friend of the family to find out what happened. Someone could have bumped the table or nothing happend and they just want cash back because she heard through her friend it was leaning a bit and they are using that as a way to try and get something back. It's a gorgeous cake .

chocomama is not correct. you can be sued for anything. ever watch the court shows? your wages can't be garnished unless there is a judgment against you. garnishments are not just for student loans, etc. they are one avenue of satisfying judgments. but if it did fall to pieces trust me, someone has a picture. wishing you success in dealing with this lady.

re: this being a learning experience at best! Yes it is a learning experience- every time you deal with a new customer it's a learning experience- and hopefullly come away with valuable experience about what to do same and what to do differently next time something similar comes up.
As for compensation, the only time I can see it being wise to offer discount or freebie on next deal is if you already have a long and goodstanding relationship with a customer. Loyal customer, you want to make right. If it's a loyal customer obviously they're not mental or you wouldnt continue doing business with them (if you did you need your -generic you- head examined lol to subject yourself-again generic you- to that kind of abuse). If they are a loyal and levelheaded customer then they would not fly off the handle if you made a mistake. Of course being a good business person, you (generic you) own up to mistakes and try and make right the best way for that situation (not all situations require or demand the same compensation ie full or partial refund etc).

If however you have found yourself in a situation with a crazy person- and some problems ensue, either your fault or theirs or both parties responsible, why would you offer to do their next one free or cheaper? (Just asking here)- why se t yourself up to be doing business with that person again. In a situation like that with someone who is OBVIOUSLY going to cause grief every time you deal with them (because they already have every step of the way this time) you dont want to ever do business with them again- so dont put yourself in the position to- if you feel the need to compensate whether the mishap was your responsibility or not- offer full or partial refund and then close the book on that one.

If the pictures you posted are of the best side, you delivered a very pretty leaning cake (it points to the right). It didn't get less leany after you left it.

Best case scenario is you refund the fee (in full, never mind your costs of ingredients) and you keep your business going. Worst case is she gets you shut down and you're out of business and you're paying fines for doing business illegally, for not collecting and paying taxes, for not having health department inspection, and whatever else, as well as maybe paying her back for this cake.

What's the risk worth to you?

oops, look below.

But, if you tell her you are giving her her money back....will that shut her up and make her go away? Or will she continue to "press charges" because of the licensing thing. In which case, you have tried to appease her, but she may continue to try and RUIN you. I HATE BULLYS! I don't believe you were intentionally trying to evade the law by not being licensed. MEAN PEOPLE S***! Good luck to you. Please, keep us posted.

In the grand scheme of things, this is just one day, a leaning cake doesn't mean her daughter's marriage is ruined, destined for disaster! But, her actions could cause lasting ramifications! I wonder if it was a wedding in a church. And I wonder if they listened at all to the message provided by the preacher? Love each other as I have loved you, and do unto others the way in which you would like them to do unto you. Maybe you should sue her for harrassment! or libel if she starts flapping her jaws! Sorry, that we vindictive of me, but, darn it, it makes me angry. GOOD LUCK!!!!!

I wouldn't give her back any money! She paid for a wedding cake, you did your job. If the cake would have fallen that is another story. There are all kinds of people and she seems to be someone trying to recoupe some of her expense of putting on a wedding. The flip side is that you felt that your cake had a flaw that you dont seem to be comfortable with. I would consider what you charged per slice and come up with a figure where you aren't out any money for product and made a little for labor and give her a portion of her money back for good carma. But if you do decide to refund a portion of her money, it would come with some kind of written document stating that you refunded a portion due to customer satisfaction and that you two came to agreement of the terms of the refund so that if she down the road gets a bug up her... you legally are covered between the pictures you have and the written document. GOOD LUCK!

I would suggest that you ask her to provide you with a picture that shows the cake falling apart. Yes, you may have provided a picture of a cake that was still standing when you left the reception site. However, it's also a picture that clearly shows the cake was leaning when you were on site. In addition to that, you told the caterer that the cake was slightly leaning but would be fine. That in itself is an admission that the cake was less than "perfect".

The situation is being handled badly on both sides. As a cake decorator, when you accept an order especially for a wedding cake the client is expecting you to deliver a cake that's flawless or atleast has the appearance of being flawless. If you can't deliver that get the client or a representative to sign off on that flaw. From that point it's out of your hands. However, in this situation you left the site and assumed that the leaning cake would be acceptable. Not many people on this site would agree with me but if I had ordered a wedding cake and I arrived on site to find the cake that I ordered leaning to one side I would be pretty pissed off.

With regards to the mother of the bride threatening you is definitely not the way to handle the situation. She may very well be very upset that her daughter's cake was not as perfect as she would have liked for her special day. And you can't fault her for that.

So I would suggest that you call the mother of the bride up and try to come to some agreement with her. Even offer her a partial refund, tell her that you are willing to give her a partial refund. Let her know the reason you are giving her a partial refund is because the cake was consumed and therefore you are willing to forfeit any money for labor and the only thing she will pay for is the cost to make the cake and any supplies.

Thanks everyone for all of your opinions and advice.

As far as the contract there wasnt one. She never signed anything and she paid me in cash. If I wanted to be dirty I could just say I dont know what money she is talking about but that isnt how I work.

The only thing that I havent done by the book as far as my business is the health department. I do pay my taxes on everything I make. I am an accountant by day so I know how important that is. I just didnt think the health department issue was a big deal (here anyway)

I started this whole situation out very apologetic and she just continued to scream and yell and lie and accuse me of being malicious and that is where my anger came from.

I just wanted to clarify those points. Thanks again to everyone for their opinions!

Amber, I am so sorry for what you're going through. I think the cake is beautiful, and if this were happening to me, I would be just as distraught as you are. I wish I had some good advice for you, but I don't. I just wanted to tell you that I feel for you and I hope everything turns out OK. I think your cakes are beautiful.

Amber, if she didn't sign a binding agreement and paid you cash, how can she sue you? Since most people have cell phones "glued to their ear" (I even hear them ring during church service"), she should have called you immediately during the reception to inform you of the situation.

Some people just want everyting for free.

I wouldnt give her a stinkin' cent.

Dear Amber,

I think that this lady is perhaps guilty of knocking the cake over herself! I am getting married next year, and knowing my mother, she certainly wouldn't be leaving it until the monday to make a complaint! Why didn't this lady call you the moment she discovered the cake?

Furthermore, my grandmother used to make beautiful cakes, and I think this would have been a cake she would certainly have comented upon. (Believe me, that IS a compliment, what she had forgotten regarding cakes wasn't worth knowing!) I am attempting to make my own wedding cake, as she is sadly no longer with us...

Anyhow, I'd also like to congratulate you on some of your other designs. I particularly loved the chocolate strawberry one! (My mouth waters just thinking about it!)

Don't allow disrespectful and quarrelsome people to cause you to doubt your gift. Good cake making IS a gift, and you certainly have it girl!

Bless you.
Ebony
xxx

I am so sorry for what happened to you. I can imagine how hard it is since the MOB is being such a , you know.

As far as not having signed a contract, I think that if you two talked about you baking a cake for the wedding and discussed the details of the cake, you've got a contract right there. It's a verbal contract. If she sues you, like other people said, she has the burden of proving her case, that is, she has to show that the cake was leaning by providing a picture, video of the wedding, etc. It's a good thing you took a picture of the wedding cake after you set it up and that you had a friend with you that could be a witness to what happened while you were setting up. If it went to court, they might ask you to refund part of the money just because you made that comment to the caterer about the cake slightly leaning. For the judge to believe the MOB about those comments her friend, the caterer, made about what you supposedly told her, she would either need an affidavit from her friend or have her there as a witness. I don't know how good friends they are, but lying under oath is not a good thing to do. Also, if she said that this was so stressful for the bride and try and get some pain and suffering from that, she would also need the bride to be there and tell the judge how she felt. If she has ever called you and left you a nasty message in your cell phone, do keep it so you can show it to the judge. Remember to bring all your evidence and your witnesses or affidavits. And no, I'm not a lawyer but I do watch court TV a lot!

The matter with the Health department is a little more problematic. You could get fined big time so do find out what the deal is in your state.

With that said, if possible, try and work it out with the MOB, offer a 1st aniversary cake or a cake for mother's day .

Good luck, Amber

Inma

Scenario A:

B:

Here's what I'd suggest to this MOB....If MOB agrees to, and satisfies, Scenario A , then you will follow through with Scenario B.

One question I have for you Amber: in all this talk of contracts, the health department, lawsuits and what the MOB reports from HER lawyer's office, have YOU contacted an attorney in your area to find anything out about your side of the equation? Seems to me the MOB might be talking out of her but - you'd better get your facts straight before you take another step. I still think Step A and B might be a good option, but you really should get some legal advice. A lot of attorneys can provide a free consultation, but there's also the Legal Aide Society as well as your state's Attorney General's office that can guide you.

I have no knowledge of the law but I work for a credit card company in the billing dispute department. In any dispute, the burden of proof is always on the person bringing the claim. In this case, that's our friend MOB. If this were a credit card billing dispute, she'd have no case. Wedding cakes fall under services, and if the cake was served, the service was provided (eaten). If she were disputing the quality of goods or services, she'd have to have a second opinion from a similar merchant (translation - another wedding cake decorator) indicating what you did was incorrect or inappropriate. And how could she get that??

(I'm going to make a wildly inappropriate analogy here, so I'm asking forgiveness ahead of time...thanks!) Let's say for example this was a murder case. (like I said, wildly inappropriate analogy) If a person goes missing for a time, that person eventually is presumed dead. It can't become a murder case until there's a body. This is kinda sorta like that. If she can produce a body - like a photo of the deceased cake, then she might have a murder trial on her hands. If not - it's just a missing person, or a cake she wants for free....not likely a judge will hear the case!

I'd also have to ask - when this MOB paid you in cash, did you provide her with any kind of receipt? If not, then there's one more piece of evidence a judge would feel is lacking in her claim. No proof of sale, no photo of failed cake, no credible independent (like - not her caterer FRIEND) witness.

Not that I am trying to make you more comfortable with not giving her any money back. I surely would refund some money. Not all....some. But the problem here as I see it is what she can do to you OUTSIDE the courtroom that's got you worried. That's why I really do suggest contacting an attorney, explain the situation, and find out in the eyes of the law just what can this woman do to you.

OK so sorry I rambled on and on!!! Best of luck to you![/quote]

It sounds to me like they are trying to get a freebie out of you by asking for their money back. I hate clients like that! Next time I would put a disclaimer with your cakes stating that once your cakes are delivered and set up they are the responsibility of the wedding party and any and all catastrophes are not your problem!

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Its a shame that people today are willing to sue someone over anything. And its usually the honest, hardworking people that lose, and the worthless, lazy, unemployed people that profit from it. I hope everything turns out for you. I have no advice to offer you just my support. The cake looks beautiful to me.

Had you not pointed out that it was leaning slightly I may not have noticed. It sounds like to me when you said something her friend that was an excuse for her to get some money back. Someone said unless you have an obvious issue cake slidding off I would never say anything. I think it's great that you took pictures. I would start having sighned contracts stating you are not responsible after you leave the cake no matte what. Good luck let us know what you do