Do I Make A Golly Wog Cake

Decorating By nikki54321 Updated 22 Oct 2014 , 9:15am by SystemMod2

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AZCouture Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 3:29am
post #31 of 85

AYou're appalled that the website doesn't have a monitor reviewing every thread before it's posted? Why don't you volunteer for that job?

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AZCouture Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 3:30am
post #32 of 85

A

Original message sent by MimiFix

Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog]Golliwog[/URL]

Hey look at that....well, guess we're all safe from condemnation from Googlers.

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mcaulir Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 3:51am
post #33 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by enga 
 

Every time someone googles that word they will be directed to this thread. I wonder what they will think about it?


They'll think that someone had an idea that a golliwog cake would be racially insensitive, and asked if others agreed. Then someone started being kind-of nutty about it and the thread was locked.

 

I doubt CC's reputation will be irreparably damaged.

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AZCouture Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 6:54am
post #34 of 85

That's all folks!

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mcaulir Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 7:32am
post #36 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZCouture 
 

That's all folks!


Now, of course, I shall go mad with power. Stay tuned...

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 11:27am
post #37 of 85

AEnga, this is obviously a very sensitive topic for you. I say that because you are usually leading the charge of anyone being the slight disrespectful or harsh in answering a question. On this one, your emotion got ahead of you

although naive, the OP did recognize the potential of this being controversial. She trusted us to not react as she thought some in her community might. She trusted that this was a safe place to ask.

Your response not only ridiculed her for asking but seemed to disregard the fact that she was prepared to pass on this one.

Furthermore, your passion blinded you (or appeared to blind you) to the fact that every single member here agreed with you that it's a bad idea. You then dared some of them to make the cake. Why?! They already stated the wouldn't?!

I encourage you to take a breath and back away for a minute. Reread the posts with an open mind and I think you will see that your knee jerk first response was a bit harsh and what followed was our response to that.

We are not a bunch of racists chomping at the bit to make racist cakes and encouraging the OP to do the same.

Furthermore, it is no more telling that someone is a racist because they know the proper spelling of a racist doll than it is of someone knowing the spelling of an antisemetic doll (yes they exist). Having lived all my life in the very Deep South, I am very familiar with the spelling and pronunciation of any derogatory terms and items. I am also the granddaughter of one of the big (considered here anyway) civil rights activists who was also the president of the Union of the big factory here in Charleston. I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone who knows me and thinks I'm racist.

Wow. That was long and somehow derailed from my original point. See how passion can effect is all?!

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cazza1 Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 12:49pm
post #38 of 85

It was a sad day when we were told that we were no longer allowed to love our golliwogs because that made us racist.  What child thinks in these terms of a beloved toy.  Innocence becomes racism by the teachings of adults.

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MimiFix Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 3:25pm
post #39 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by cazza1 
 

... What child thinks in these terms of a beloved toy. Innocence becomes racism by the teachings of adults.

 

 

Thank you, cazza1. That started me thinking about analogies: Many girls love their Barbies, but this is how we learn (in that very subtle way) that tiny waists and big breasts are important. I wonder if our world continues to have stereotypes and racism because we are so indoctrinated that we can't recognize what is happening.

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enga Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 7:16pm
post #40 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliciousDesserts 

Enga, this is obviously a very sensitive topic for you. I say that because you are usually leading the charge of anyone being the slight disrespectful or harsh in answering a question. On this one, your emotion got ahead of you

although naive, the OP did recognize the potential of this being controversial. She trusted us to not react as she thought some in her community might. She trusted that this was a safe place to ask.

Your response not only ridiculed her for asking but seemed to disregard the fact that she was prepared to pass on this one.

Furthermore, your passion blinded you (or appeared to blind you) to the fact that every single member here agreed with you that it's a bad idea. You then dared some of them to make the cake. Why?! They already stated the wouldn't?!

I encourage you to take a breath and back away for a minute. Reread the posts with an open mind and I think you will see that your knee jerk first response was a bit harsh and what followed was our response to that.

We are not a bunch of racists chomping at the bit to make racist cakes and encouraging the OP to do the same.

Furthermore, it is no more telling that someone is a racist because they know the proper spelling of a racist doll than it is of someone knowing the spelling of an antisemetic doll (yes they exist). Having lived all my life in the very Deep South, I am very familiar with the spelling and pronunciation of any derogatory terms and items. I am also the granddaughter of one of the big (considered here anyway) civil rights activists who was also the president of the Union of the big factory here in Charleston. I think you would be very hard pressed to find anyone who knows me and thinks I'm racist.

Wow. That was long and somehow derailed from my original point. See how passion can effect is all?!

You sure are making a lot of assumptions in regards to my posts. I haven't posted on this site since when? I didn't say anything about the spelling of the word or whether it was correct or incorrect. I said that it was very telling, to add anything else to my words is on you. I never said the OP was a racist or that anyone else was. I didn't dare anyone, I challenged them to make the cake. If someone asked you to make it what would you say to them? Would you need anyone to explain to you why you wouldn't or shouldn't make it? Exactly.......

 

The word is racist, it is used to describe a doll that was made to be racist. The books written about gollli wogs have racial slurs in them. If you don't believe me, research it. If you or anyone else thinks it's cute to condone such a doll that generalizes what Black people look like, fine. I can tell you that most people of color wont.

 

The word golly wog/golliwog/gollli wog is the equivalent to the word (insert American racial slur for Black people). She might as well have said "do I make a (insert American racial slur for Black people) cake?"

 

Knee jerk reaction? Ha! I will let the OP speak for herself as to my so call ridiculing her and "her trusting us not to react as she thought some in her community might." 

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DeliciousDesserts Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 8:05pm
post #41 of 85

Quote:

 

You sure are making a lot of assumptions in regards to my posts. I haven't posted on this site since when? I didn't say anything about the spelling of the word or whether it was correct or incorrect. I said that it was very telling, to add anything else to my words is on you. I never said the OP was a racist or that anyone else was. I didn't dare anyone, I challenged them to make the cake.

If someone asked you to make it what would you say to them? Would you need anyone to explain to you why you wouldn't or shouldn't make it? Exactly.......

 

The word is racist, it is used to describe a doll that was made to be racist. The books written about gollli wogs have racial slurs in them. If you don't believe me, research it. If you or anyone else thinks it's cute to condone such a doll that generalizes what Black people look like, fine. I can tell you that most people of color wont.

 

The word golly wog/golliwog/gollli wog is the equivalent to the word (insert American racial slur for Black people). She might as well have said "do I make a (insert American racial slur for Black people) cake?"

 

Knee jerk reaction? Ha! I will let the OP speak for herself as to my so call ridiculing her and "her trusting us not to react as she thought some in her community might." 

 

 

My assumptions are made with compassion but are certainly made from a veil of my own personal expierences.  I have no idea when or why you last posted.  I don't follow you.  

 

Quote:

 I said that it was very telling, to add anything else to my words is on you.

  I think anyone reading this:

Quote:

 Mimi:  Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... Golliwog
Enga:  Hmmmmm, how very telling.

would agree as though you are insinuating that Mimi is a racist for knowing how to spell it.

 

When you write:

Quote:

 But you go ahead and make it, be sure and post pics and see how well it is received.
and/or
I challenge each of you to make this cake and put it on your websites and tell me how well your business goes.

It doesn't sound like you or being helpful (my originial point) or as you are offering a challenge.  It sounds like a dare.

Challenge:  invite (someone) to engage in a contest.

Dare:  to have enough courage or confidence to do something : to not be too afraid to do something

: to do (something that is difficult or that people are usually afraid to do)

: to tell (someone) to do something especially as a way of showing courage

Quote:

 If someone asked you to make it what would you say to them? Would you need anyone to explain to you why you wouldn't or shouldn't make it? Exactly.......

No.  I know all too well all the power the image and word has for some.  However, there are many MANY who do not.  They DO not know.  They do not get it.  This was an opportunity to educate.  Instead, you stifle any communication or open discussion with your gruff remark.

 

Quote:

 The word is racist, it is used to describe a doll that was made to be racist. The books written about gollli wogs have racial slurs in them. If you don't believe me, research it. If you or anyone else thinks it's cute to condone such a doll that generalizes what Black people look like, fine. I can tell you that most people of color wont.

I agree.  Many members agreed.  I don't think anyone tried to argue this point.  This is the one thing we can all agree.  Do you even get that we agree?!  Seriously?!

 

Quote:

 Knee jerk reaction? Ha! I will let the OP speak for herself as to my so call ridiculing her and "her trusting us not to react as she thought some in her community might." 

My comment about knee jerk reaction is your initial response to the OP.  I think almost everyone on this thread thought your answer was heated, condescending, and rude.

 

Why on earth is this a debate?  The debate you continue to have is very different from the one the rest of us are having with you.  We are arguing that you could have been nicer in your response.  That's it!

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MimiFix Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 8:21pm
post #42 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliciousDesserts 
 

  I think anyone reading this:

Quote:
 Mimi:  Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... Golliwog
Enga:  Hmmmmm, how very telling.

would agree as though you are insinuating that Mimi is a racist for knowing how to spell it.

 

Oh holy moly, mother of g-d. It never occurred to me that our dear sweet enga was accusing me of being racist. Shows you how naive I am.

 

In my sheltered life, living in the US, I had never heard that term before. I searched GOOGLE using the OP's selling and Golliwog came up first. 

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enga Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 8:30pm
post #43 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by MimiFix 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliciousDesserts 
 

  I think anyone reading this:

Quote:
 Mimi:  Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... Golliwog
Enga:  Hmmmmm, how very telling.

would agree as though you are insinuating that Mimi is a racist for knowing how to spell it.

 

Oh holy moly, mother of g-d. It never occurred to me that our dear sweet enga was accusing me of being racist. Shows you how naive I am.

 

In my sheltered life, living in the US, I had never heard that term before. I searched GOOGLE using the OP's selling and Golliwog came up first. 

That is because dear sweet Mimi I wasn't. I was saying it was very telling that it was misspelled and it wouldn't direct any search of the word to CC .

 

Have you ever heard of term Sambo? That is the American version of a golliwog wog. As far as arguing or debating, I replied  to a post that I FELT was offensive for the times that we are living in.

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enga Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 8:37pm
post #44 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliciousDesserts 
 
 

Why on earth is this a debate?  The debate you continue to have is very different from the one the rest of us are having with you.  We are arguing that you could have been nicer in your response.  That's it!

Maybe because I took the name of this thread as an insult.

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mcaulir Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 9:00pm
post #45 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by enga 
 

Maybe because I took the name of this thread as an insult.

 

Are you insulted merely by the use of the word golliwog to refer to the children's toy, or by the fact that some people aren't completely aware of the racial issues surrounding the toy?

 

If it's the former, then a good response would have been, 'OP, I'm insulted just by reading that word - some people in your community will probably feel the same, so it would be best if you didn't make the cake.'

 

If it's the latter, then a good response would have been, 'OP, I'm insulted just by reading that word - some people in your community will probably feel the same, so it would be best if you didn't make the cake.'

 

Not everyone is as aware of those sorts of issues as everyone else. Better to calmly explain the issue, right?

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enga Posted 18 Oct 2014 , 9:04pm
post #46 of 85

Okay. OP, I'm insulted just by reading that word, please do further research on the word golliwog.

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jennicake Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 4:43am
post #47 of 85

I had no idea what it was either!  Had to google it, and spent a good 10 minutes reading up on the history right now.  Learned something new today!

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gscout73 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 7:45am
post #48 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by MimiFix 
 

Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... Golliwog


No, she didn't. She used both slang words Golly and Wog together. There have been multiple variations over the years that all refer to the same thing.

"The Golliwog was created during a racist era. He was drawn as a caricature of a minstrel -- which itself represented a demeaning image of blacks. There is racial stereotyping of black people in Florence Upton's books, including The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls -- such as the black minstrel playing a banjo on page 45. It appears that the Golliwog was another expression of Upton's racial insensitivity. Certainly later Golliwogs often reflected negative beliefs about blacks -- thieves, miscreants, incompetents. There is little doubt that the words associated with Golliwog -- Golly, Golli, Wog, and Golliwog, itself -- are often used as racial slurs. Finally, the resurgence of interest in the Golliwog is not found primarily among children, but instead is found among adults, some nostalgic, others with financial interests" (Pilgram, 2007).

 

Pilgram, D. PhD, (2000) The Golliwog Caricature Retrieved from http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/golliwog/

 

I did not know about these until this thread, and they are abhorrent. OP, please do NOT perpetuate this racism and bigotry.   MimiFix, please do not insult. If you feel compelled to correct others, please do so respectfully.

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cakebaby2 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 9:01am
post #49 of 85

Obviously RightThink isn't working (G. Orwell 1984) if there are still a few people out there who are unsure of what is the correct mode of thought on offensive issues.

I thought this kind of need to question had been stamped out by media, government, persecution of offenders, blacklisting and of course the vast army of the professionally outraged.

We must try harder people, perhaps implants inserted in utero?

I'm beginning to think hard about my Salman Rushdie book cake now Hmmm...with or without the spectacles, what do you think?

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Claire138 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 9:10am
post #50 of 85

When I was a child in London we all played with gollywogs same as we played with any other doll or stuffed toy, there was no racism attached to them at all. I know that now they are no longer acceptable but for me they have good memories - playing as kids do with no notion of what they represented.

 

Back to the OP, I wouldn't do it for all the reasons given above.

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cakebaby2 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 9:26am
post #51 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by gscout73 
 


No, she didn't. She used both slang words Golly and Wog together. There have been multiple variations over the years that all refer to the same thing.

"The Golliwog was created during a racist era. He was drawn as a caricature of a minstrel -- which itself represented a demeaning image of blacks. There is racial stereotyping of black people in Florence Upton's books, including The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls -- such as the black minstrel playing a banjo on page 45. It appears that the Golliwog was another expression of Upton's racial insensitivity. Certainly later Golliwogs often reflected negative beliefs about blacks -- thieves, miscreants, incompetents. There is little doubt that the words associated with Golliwog -- Golly, Golli, Wog, and Golliwog, itself -- are often used as racial slurs. Finally, the resurgence of interest in the Golliwog is not found primarily among children, but instead is found among adults, some nostalgic, others with financial interests" (Pilgram, 2007).

 

Pilgram, D. PhD, (2000) The Golliwog Caricature Retrieved from http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/golliwog/

 

I did not know about these until this thread, and they are abhorrent. OP, please do NOT perpetuate this racism and bigotry.   MimiFix, please do not insult. If you feel compelled to correct others, please do so respectfully.

Dont forget the Grand Wizard Enid Blyton who made golliwogs the baddie in Toytown with Noddy and Big Ears.

They were always stealing cars rioting and looting in Toytown and generally creating mayhem for the Toytown police (unarmed British ones).

Generations of children must have been influenced by the works of this woman.

The Golliwogs have since been evicted from Toytown in modern Noddy books...which I'm not sure is right or wrong now because they just disappeared overnight without anyone commenting or noticing.

On one hand thats a good thing...on the other, where did they go, who took them, was it forcible or voluntary.

These questions have never been addressed or answered.

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Claire138 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 9:32am
post #52 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakebaby2 
 

Dont forget the Grand Wizard Enid Blyton who made golliwogs the baddie in Toytown with Noddy and Big Ears.

They were always stealing cars rioting and looting in Toytown and generally creating mayhem for the Toytown police (unarmed British ones).

Generations of children must have been influenced by the works of this woman.

The Golliwogs have since been evicted from Toytown in modern Noddy books...which I'm not sure is right or wrong now because they just disappeared overnight without anyone commenting or noticing.

On one hand thats a good thing...on the other, where did they go, who took them, was it forcible or voluntary.

These questions have never been addressed or answered.

 

I remember reading an article some time ago that Enid Blyton was now being considered racist due to the lack of black characters in her books etc which I'm not sure is right bc she lived in a time with no means of travel & the like  as we have today so her leaving them out was probably more to do with her not knowing many (or any) than any racist overtones. Quite possibly the gollywogs were invented more from hearsay from those from the new world then anything else.

Just my tuppence ha'penny.

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cakebaby2 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 9:57am
post #53 of 85

Not just racist but ***ist and elitist too..."Mother" was perpetually feeding her children on lashings of tooth rotting ginger beer and cakes while wearing a pinny.

Her children roamed wild getting involved with unsavoury characters like smugglers and alien spies (no disrespect intended to the contraband community)

As we survey our world today Ms Blyton has much to answer for in loose parenting, criminal associations the callous disregard for those who look different (Big Ears the gnome, can you imagine addressing anyone thus today!!!)

I'd never thought of the mass disappearance in Toyland until now, and its beginning to look sinister rather than positive. 

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MBalaska Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 10:02am
post #54 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakebaby2 
 

Obviously RightThink isn't working (G. Orwell 1984) if there are still a few people out there who are unsure of what is the correct mode of thought on offensive issues.

I thought this kind of need to question had been stamped out by media, government, persecution of offenders, blacklisting and of course the vast army of the professionally outraged.

We must try harder people, perhaps implants inserted in utero?

I'm beginning to think hard about my Salman Rushdie book cake now Hmmm...with or without the spectacles, what do you think?

 

 

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
George Orwell

 

Neither is Newspeak working.

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cakebaby2 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 10:08am
post #55 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBalaska 
 

 

Neither is Newspeak

And Newthought Ms Alaska.?

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MBalaska Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 11:03am
post #56 of 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakebaby2 

 

And Newthought Ms Alaska.?

 

 

“If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself.”
George Orwell, 1984

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MimiFix Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 11:40am
post #57 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by enga 
 

Every time someone googles that word they will be directed to this thread. I wonder what they will think about it?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MimiFix 
 

Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... Golliwog

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gscout73 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MimiFix 
 

Then lucky us, the OP spelled it wrong... Golliwog

 MimiFix, please do not insult. If you feel compelled to correct others, please do so respectfully.

 

I'm sorry if you are offended, but you have taken my words out of context. I was attempting to diffuse the nasty turn the thread had taken - specifically to addres that enga had little to fear because when I had searched google it showed the spelling to be different from the thread title. I was saying that this CC conversation would not appear and taint the CC image. Of course now that we have belabored the issue, google will be happy with more fodder.

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Snowflakebunny23 Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 12:06pm
post #58 of 85

I think this thread is really sad actually and qudos to the people who have offered OP/nikki advice.  I implore the moderators not to delete this thread - if they do, how will people learn?  To delete it, and anything else on the internet associated with Golly Wogs would, in my view, by just as insulting as selling them and perpetuating the racial slurs which go with them - why?  Because erasing our history does not mean it didn't happen.  It just means people who suffered in the process of gaining freedom and equality suffered for nothing and erasing it stops others from learning from it.

I consider myself a pretty well-read person; I have traveled Europe, the middle East, Far East and Canada for my work yet at the weekend, I was watching a film about some of the first Black sportsmen and heard racial slurs used which I had never heard before (while also crying my eyes out at how sad the film was in places).  Just because you feel something is offensive, does not mean that it is offensive internationally and does not mean that everyone knows.  If we want to live in an enlightened world, free of racism, then educating people in a polite way is the only way of doing it.  There was a very interesting picture going around facebook the other day of black and white children hugging; the caption read "a child loves anyone - it is society which tells them not to".  This is all now getting a bit philosophical...but at the end of the day, as soon as we start criticising people for asking for advice, we may as well all pack up and go home.

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enga Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 2:26pm
post #59 of 85

specifically to addres that enga had little to fear because when I had searched google it showed the spelling to be different from the thread title.

 

Don't you mean that you had little to fear? I wasn't afraid for anyone to see this thread. I said it because I thought it would be an embarrassment to CC if anyone googled the word and was directed to this site.

 

I was offended, I voiced my opinion, and I tried to educate the OP and others only to be attacked by certain members, directed on how I should post, and told to apologize. I will never apologize for being upset for what I felt was a racial slur neatly wrapped up in a question. And util the OP answers this thread, I will continue to think that this thread was created with malice and to insight hatred and racism.

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MimiFix Posted 20 Oct 2014 , 3:13pm
post #60 of 85
Quote:

Originally Posted by enga 

 

I will never apologize for being upset for what I felt was a racial slur neatly wrapped up in a question. And util the OP answers this thread, I will continue to think that this thread was created with malice and to insight hatred and racism.

 

enga, I can see where anyone would be upset by what appears to them as, "a racial slur wrapped up in a question." (Do not interpret this sentence as anything other than my agreeing with you that you have the right to be upset.) But you don't know how the OP feels. It might be that she, too, is upset, distraught at how her question was perceived. She may feel afraid to come back and be attacked for posting a question.

 

We sometimes see trolls come here to start problems. But in this case I don't believe the thread was "created with malice and to insight hatred and racism." (This statement is enough to cause the OP to fear returning.) 

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