Scratch Cupcake Recipe Failure
Baking By Tanayla_treats Updated 28 Dec 2013 , 5:01am by liz at sugar
Hello everyone. This is my first time posting, but I really nead help. I'm not good with technology and I haven't spent a great deal of time on this site, so I'm sorry if I have silly questions. I've spent years and years wanting make decorated sugar cookies and I am finally able to make them well. Now, I'm determined to make delicious, bakery-style cupcakes. At first it didn't matter to me if they were from a box or from scratch, but I've have had no luck with either.
I've researched and tried numerous recipes from cookbooks and online. I've tried the WASC and other doctored box recipes, and scratch recipes from many bloggers and websites and they're still not what I'm looking for.,.Here's what I am looking for in a cupcake (I can make delicious frostings) but in the cake I want It: moist, dense, sweet - and gourmet I guess. I want it to taste like the ones I've had from cupcake shops. On my birthday last year, I went to five different cupcakeries (if there is a such thing) and I tried thier cupcakes - more than one from each. And I realized that even though they all tasted different, thier texture was the same, and not like what I've found using a box mix or doctored box mix, thus making me want to bake them from scratch.
About a week ago, I found a recipe from scractch that has the texture that I've been looking for and they come out very pretty with a nice dome every time.The problem is that they don't taste good!!! The flavor is bland, kind of like cornbread. So I tried adding vanilla bean and butter flavoring to add to the taste, but it didn't help. So my question is, what can I add, substitute, or change to make them more flavorful??? I was going for a base yellow cupcake- that I could modify to make other flavors. When I modified the recipe myself changing the all purpose flour to half ap flour and half cake flour and adding a pudding to mix, the batter was so good, but when the cupcakes baked, they were flat and didn't have the dome or the density. Please help, any and all suggestions are welcomed. Oh, and I've made sure that all ingredients were at room temp, and flour sifted once. These are the ingredients that I use:
*all purpose flour
*baking powder
*salt
*large egg
*granulated sugar
*butter-unsalted
*pure vanilla extract
*whole milk
*and cream cheese
I was also wondering if anyone uses King Arthur Unbleached cake flour? And could it be that I won't get the desired results unless I have a KitchenAid Stand Mixer? I have an offbrand- from Walmart that I've had for years. Thanks again!!
no, it's not your mixer--and for what it's worth--i never have my ingredients at room temp anymore either--but don't change on my account--you're fine--
i know that some cupcakeries use mixes that their own (franchise) brand makes--they might even get batters shipped in already made into batter--they might make the batters a day in advance of baking -- so there's that possible difference--
unbleached flour would give a denser product but it would not make my favorite cupcake--
i admire your tenacity to keep trying and trying--
i think maybe you are looking for a product like an italian cream cake for density -- uses buttermilk* -- so i recommend that you try that and see if that's where you wanna go--then you can use that as a base to add in whatever different flavors etc. you might like for future --
there are tons of recipes available in online search
*yes you can make your own buttermilk with vinegar and milk but if you decide to try this recipe--find the nice thick full fat stuff--i think this might be what you're looking for
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Originally Posted by Tanayla_treats
I was also wondering if anyone uses King Arthur Unbleached cake flour? And could it be that I won't get the desired results unless I have a KitchenAid Stand Mixer? I have an offbrand- from Walmart that I've had for years. Thanks again!!
but wait--if you need a good excuse to get another mixer--one can never have too many mixers--oh yeah you'll make superior cuppies with a new kitchen aid
oh, santa...
AThank you k8memphis! I'll try the buttermilk! And, oh yes, I hope Santa is listening!!!
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At first it didn't matter to me if they were from a box or from scratch, but I've have had no luck with either. That doesn't make sense. A child can make a cake from a mix. The only variables are the brand of mix and if you doctor the mix or not. If your using doctored mixes that are highly recommended by others it's got to work or there's something wrong with you (sorry).
Here's what I am looking for in a cupcake (I can make delicious frostings) but in the cake I want It: moist, dense, sweet - and gourmet I guess. I want it to taste like the ones I've had from cupcake shops. Freezing a cake will increase it's moisture and density. Make sure you seal it tightly before freezing. Most places use mixes.....so your probably liking a commercial cake mix. Cupcake shops add simple syrups and other add-on's like caramel to increase the moisture level and sweetness of the cake.
On my birthday last year, I went to five different cupcakeries (if there is a such thing) and I tried thier cupcakes - more than one from each. And I realized that even though they all tasted different, thier texture was the same, and not like what I've found using a box mix or doctored box mix, thus making me want to bake them from scratch. A consistent texture like you described earlier is usually achieved using a cake mix and not something you're going to get in multiple scratch bakeries. Scratch baking varies wildly from baker to baker and you're not going to be able to go to multiple stores and get consistent results...that ONLY happens with cake mixes.
About a week ago, I found a recipe from scractch that has the texture that I've been looking for and they come out very pretty with a nice dome every time.The problem is that they don't taste good!!! The flavor is bland, kind of like cornbread. So I tried adding vanilla bean and butter flavoring to add to the taste, but it didn't help. So my question is, what can I add, substitute, or change to make them more flavorful??? Don't create your own recipes until you're a very advanced baker! It takes professional bakers years and years before the are ready to create their own recipes. Instead, find GOOD recipes by finding the best baking books to learn from.
I was going for a base yellow cupcake- that I could modify to make other flavors. That can't be done with a scratch cake batter. NO ONE can achieve that, because when you add other flavors it changes the science of the recipe. That's why there are different recipes for different flavors. If you want something that works like this, you MUST stick to cake mixes they will let you make changes with a lower failure rate.
When I modified the recipe myself changing the all purpose flour to half ap flour and half cake flour and adding a pudding to mix, the batter was so good, but when the cupcakes baked, they were flat and didn't have the dome or the density. Again, unless your a scientist or a very experienced baker don't attempt that. Do you mix up different chemicals and stick them into your cars gas tank and think you're car will run on any fuel? NO.....you gotta understand science and respect it before you can begin to modify it yourself.
Please help, any and all suggestions are welcomed. Oh, and I've made sure that all ingredients were at room temp, and flour sifted once. These are the ingredients that I use:
*all purpose flour
*baking powder
*salt
*large egg
*granulated sugar
*butter-unsalted
*pure vanilla extract
*whole milk
*and cream cheese
I was also wondering if anyone uses King Arthur Unbleached cake flour? Yes, it's good flour but it's not Cake Flour. Follow what the recipe calls for.
And could it be that I won't get the desired results unless I have a KitchenAid Stand Mixer? No, not even a little logical.
Bottom line answer:
Do you mix up different chemicals and stick them into your cars gas tank and think you're car will run on ANY fuel? NO.....you've got to understand science and respect it before you can begin to modify it yourself.
Instead, learn by reading and following recipes from baking books written by well respected authors.
AOP, I searched forever for a dense, moist vanilla cupcake. I wanted one that wasn't fluffy and airy. I finally thought to search for a vanilla pound cake cupcake and tried two different recipes. THIS! This was what I had been looking for the whole time! Maybe look for a different recipe? I tried so many vanilla cupcakes and wasn't happy with any until I tried the pound cake! Hth!
I completely agree except my base recipe I convert into at least 30 other flavors by changing this or that - and it's 100% scratch and I sell commercially both cupcakes all the way up to tiered wedding cakes - all using the same recipe. My preferred cake is yellow cake, meaning make with all egg yolks. If you Google from scratch white cake with recipe you'll find it.
Best of luck!
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I completely agree except my base recipe I convert into at least 30 other flavors by changing this or that - and it's 100% scratch and I sell commercially both cupcakes all the way up to tiered wedding cakes - all using the same recipe. My preferred cake is yellow cake, meaning make with all egg yolks. If you Google from scratch white cake with recipe you'll find it.
Best of luck!
Unless you're talking about adding some lemon or orange zest or chocolate chips simple type adjustments I find it impossible to believe you can use one base scratch recipe and make it into 30 other flavored cakes with-out effecting the texture/chemistry of your cake. If you can do so, than you've found the one miracle recipe no one else has found.
A "yellow cake" does not mean made with all egg yolks! Where did you learn that definition?
I did google "from scratch cake with recipe" and several recipes come up. Please share which recipe your using that allows so many adjustments.
It's a white cake recipe than is it your favorite yellow cake? Huh?
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Unless you're talking about adding some lemon or orange zest or chocolate chips simple type adjustments I find it impossible to believe you can use one base scratch recipe and make it into 30 other flavored cakes with-out effecting the texture/chemistry of your cake. If you can do so, than you've found the one miracle recipe no one else has found.
A "yellow cake" does not mean made with all egg yolks! Where did you learn that definition?
I did google "from scratch cake with recipe" and several recipes come up. Please share which recipe your using that allows so many adjustments.
It's a white cake recipe than is it your favorite yellow cake? Huh?
OK, I appreciate debate, but due to my recent medical condition I probably shouldn't debate too much because I go zero to witch in no time.
I posted this recipe, man, almost 3 years ago? on my blog and have had nothing but praise and success with it from readers and bakeries around the world. I worked very hard on this recipe and have had more then just a few thoughts on taking it down because it's been plagiarized like crazy. But like an idiot, it IS the recipe I use at my bakery and posted it online way before I ever had any notoriety or, well, fame? I guess you could say.. Once posted, over the several years my readers have made more variations on it then I could have ever thought of. I actually started making a list and gave up because I didn't have the time to do it.
Also, I use "white cake" and "yellow cake" definitions based on the Cake Bible. If that is incorrect then I don't give a hoot - it is my definition and the easiest way to define the difference between a cake made with all egg yolks and one made with all egg whites. I never went to pastry school and have never taken a baking class so if you'd like to educate whatever would be helpful to the OP - but the definition I've been giving to my pastry school staff and millions of others then ha ha on me, I've been acting a fool to millions of people. Literally millions. But whatever, that's not the 1st or last time I'm a fool.
Maybe I did come up with a magic recipe or maybe this isn't what you meant, but whatever. This is my recipe made with but a butter base reverse creamed, feel free to pick it apart as you see fit.
http://fromscratchsf.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/white-cake-part-3-with-recipe/
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OK, I appreciate debate, but due to my recent medical condition I probably shouldn't debate too much because I go zero to witch in no time.
I posted this recipe, man, almost 3 years ago? on my blog and have had nothing but praise and success with it from readers and bakeries around the world. I worked very hard on this recipe and have had more then just a few thoughts on taking it down because it's been plagiarized like crazy. But like an idiot, it IS the recipe I use at my bakery and posted it online way before I ever had any notoriety or, well, fame? I guess you could say.. Once posted, over the several years my readers have made more variations on it then I could have ever thought of. I actually started making a list and gave up because I didn't have the time to do it.
Also, I use "white cake" and "yellow cake" definitions based on the Cake Bible. If that is incorrect then I don't give a hoot - it is my definition and the easiest way to define the difference between a cake made with all egg yolks and one made with all egg whites. I never went to pastry school and have never taken a baking class so if you'd like to educate whatever would be helpful to the OP - but the definition I've been giving to my pastry school staff and millions of others then ha ha on me, I've been acting a fool to millions of people. Literally millions. But whatever, that's not the 1st or last time I'm a fool.
Maybe I did come up with a magic recipe or maybe this isn't what you meant, but whatever. This is my recipe made with but a butter base reverse creamed, feel free to pick it apart as you see fit.
http://fromscratchsf.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/white-cake-part-3-with-recipe/
God Bless You, I will cherish this recipe!
Quote:
OK, I appreciate debate, but due to my recent medical condition I probably shouldn't debate too much because I go zero to witch in no time.
I posted this recipe, man, almost 3 years ago? on my blog and have had nothing but praise and success with it from readers and bakeries around the world. I worked very hard on this recipe and have had more then just a few thoughts on taking it down because it's been plagiarized like crazy. But like an idiot, it IS the recipe I use at my bakery and posted it online way before I ever had any notoriety or, well, fame? I guess you could say.. Once posted, over the several years my readers have made more variations on it then I could have ever thought of. I actually started making a list and gave up because I didn't have the time to do it.
Also, I use "white cake" and "yellow cake" definitions based on the Cake Bible. If that is incorrect then I don't give a hoot - it is my definition and the easiest way to define the difference between a cake made with all egg yolks and one made with all egg whites. I never went to pastry school and have never taken a baking class so if you'd like to educate whatever would be helpful to the OP - but the definition I've been giving to my pastry school staff and millions of others then ha ha on me, I've been acting a fool to millions of people. Literally millions. But whatever, that's not the 1st or last time I'm a fool.
Maybe I did come up with a magic recipe or maybe this isn't what you meant, but whatever. This is my recipe made with but a butter base reverse creamed, feel free to pick it apart as you see fit.
http://fromscratchsf.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/white-cake-part-3-with-recipe/
Stitches, I can attest that this is a FABULOUS recipe, and I mean those caps!! I've made it in vanilla, coconut, lemon, orange, raspberry. I've made the all egg white, version, the all egg yolk version, and an ecru whole egg version. It is the bomb! Thank you so much fromscratchsf - it truly is fabulous. Stitches, not only are the ratios perfect, the method is what really makes it work. Try it!
Liz
OK, I appreciate debate, but due to my recent medical condition I probably shouldn't debate too much because I go zero to witch in no time.
I posted this recipe, man, almost 3 years ago? on my blog and have had nothing but praise and success with it from readers and bakeries around the world. I worked very hard on this recipe and have had more then just a few thoughts on taking it down because it's been plagiarized like crazy. But like an idiot, it IS the recipe I use at my bakery and posted it online way before I ever had any notoriety or, well, fame? I guess you could say.. Once posted, over the several years my readers have made more variations on it then I could have ever thought of. I actually started making a list and gave up because I didn't have the time to do it.
Also, I use "white cake" and "yellow cake" definitions based on the Cake Bible. If that is incorrect then I don't give a hoot - it is my definition and the easiest way to define the difference between a cake made with all egg yolks and one made with all egg whites. I never went to pastry school and have never taken a baking class so if you'd like to educate whatever would be helpful to the OP - but the definition I've been giving to my pastry school staff and millions of others then ha ha on me, I've been acting a fool to millions of people. Literally millions. But whatever, that's not the 1st or last time I'm a fool.
Maybe I did come up with a magic recipe or maybe this isn't what you meant, but whatever. This is my recipe made with but a butter base reverse creamed, feel free to pick it apart as you see fit.
http://fromscratchsf.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/white-cake-part-3-with-recipe/
Thank-you, sincerely! That's exactly what I was hoping you'd do, put up or shut up. And I do believe you now because you did "put up".....so rarely does this happen, I'm truly surprised!!
Also, I'm sorry, sincerely! I just get so sick of people making claims that are nonsense and when pressed they run or get crazy fighting. I'd be surprised if most of us here haven't seen this dozens of times......so it's really cool that you are for real and sharing.
I'm not a school trained chef, but I am a second generation pastry chef who's actually been there and done that....no bs. So I call people out when I read crap, actually hoping it does educate and help others whom believe everything they read.
You're take on white cake verses yellow cake thing isn't correct. It's VERY rare for a yellow cake to be only yolks, most have whole eggs and some add additional yolks to the whole eggs. White cakes can have some whole eggs too....but that's VERY rare too....but it you have only one or two yolks it can be light enough to pass for a white cake. The egg yolks really do make all the difference in a white cake. I do greatly appreciate the incredible amount of work and science Rose Levy has done for the baking world but personally I'm not crazy about her recipes as a whole. I say that based on having made a lot of her recipes and doing group testing comparing her recipes to other recipe.
Just before you posted your original post I was looking through Shirley O. Corriher's books "BakeWise" and "CookWise" (looking for something fun to make for Christmas. And had just read her writing about how you can't just make changes to recipes with-out making further adjustments to re-balance the base recipe.
Anyway, thanks for posting your recipe I will definitely give it a try.
P.S. after looking at your recipe I find great delight that it's based on an older recipe. I have an extensive collection of older baking books I've inherited and collected over my life time. I find some of the best recipes in those older books!!!
P.S.S. I'd like to drop an additional thought out there that I've never posted online before. For good tasting cakes that are sort of dry.........add whipped cream to the batter. It's the way to add fat with-out adding more butter or oil.
Have a Merry Christmas!
AThanks for that tip stitches, is that whipped cream from the can or whipping cream that you whip yourself? Roughly how much whipped cream would you add to batter for an 8 inch cake? Thank you
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OP, I searched forever for a dense, moist vanilla cupcake. I wanted one that wasn't fluffy and airy. I finally thought to search for a vanilla pound cake cupcake and tried two different recipes. THIS! This was what I had been looking for the whole time! Maybe look for a different recipe? I tried so many vanilla cupcakes and wasn't happy with any until I tried the pound cake! Hth
Thank you, yes this helps. I'll try it!
I completely agree except my base recipe I convert into at least 30 other flavors by changing this or that - and it's 100% scratch and I sell commercially both cupcakes all the way up to tiered wedding cakes - all using the same recipe. My preferred cake is yellow cake, meaning make with all egg yolks. If you Google from scratch white cake with recipe you'll find it.
Best of luck!
FromScratchSF,
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR RECIPE!!! AND I'M SO SORRY I COULDN'T RESPOND SOONER, WITH THE HOLIDAY MADNESS (I HOPE YOU HAD A HAPPY HOLIDAY!)
I WAS ABLE TO SCROLL THROUGH AND READ YOUR BLOG POST WITH THE WHITE CAKE RECIPE. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW THOROUGH AND DESCRIPTIVE IT WAS. I HAVEN'T TRIED IT YET (I have to get a digital food scale tomorrow), BUT IT (your blog and recipe) IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR AND I CANT BELIEVE - YOU SEEM TO HAVE EXACTLY WHAT I NEED (IT'S LIKE A XMAS MIRACLE FOR ME, LOL, BUT SO SERIOUS!!!) I CAN'T WAIT TO TRY YOUR RECIPE AND I'LL LET YOU KNOW HOW IT TURNS OUT!! Again, THANK YOU, AND I'M SORRY YOU HAD TO DEBATE WITH OTHER POSTERS. I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT AND IT WORKS!!!
i think maybe you are looking for a product like an italian cream cake for density -- uses buttermilk* -- so i recommend that you try that and see if that's where you wanna go--then you can use that as a base to add in whatever different flavors etc. you might like for future --
K8Memphis,
I made a chocolate cupcake (doctored box-online recipe with buttermilk and chocolate instant pudding) with Oreo buttercream frosting yesterday, and that cake was REALLY GOOD, CLOSE TO THE TEXTURE I WAS LOOKING FOR, IT WAS REALLY MOIST!!!.I just had one for breakfast this morning (ate too much other stuff yesterday) !
Thank you for the tip and for taking the time to respond!!
AND I'M SORRY YOU HAD TO DEBATE WITH OTHER POSTERS. I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT AND IT WORKS!!!
The drag about the internet is not really knowing in what spirit peoples intent is. I wasn't looking to create stress or hassle to someone who does know what they are talking about. I just get so tired of incorrect info. (which I'm sure I accidently post too) and bs at times because a lot of people DON'T know what they are talking about...........this recipe is HIGHLY, HIGHLY unusual.
Hello Stitches,
First, I want to say thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. I tried typing this earlier but I wasn't able to do so on my phone, so I waited until I could use my computer at home, since I knew this would be a longer post. I wanted to clarify a few things and I also have a couple more questions.
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Sorry, there is a typo there. I meant to say, "I've had no luck with either." To clarify further, I meant that the taste and texture of the cupcakes that I have made didn't taste the way that I wanted. Not at all like the ones I've tasted at bakeries. The cupcakes either tasted like cornbread (most of the ones baked from scratch) or like a box (the doctored box or plain box cake mixes).
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I guess this statement wasn't meant to be condescending or with ill intent, but it sure seems like it. I wasn't saying that I can't bake cake or cupcakes from a boxed mix. There is NOTHING wrong with me, my taste buds, maybe. Again, I was saying that the cupcakes didn't taste the way that I wanted them to, just not what I was looking for, thus,"not having any luck."
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I've done this with cakes that I baked for my daughter's birthday and everyone loves them when I do. Freezing works very well for cakes, however, I didn't see a big difference in my cupcakes.
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Okay, thank you for this information. I'll try simple syrups too. I wasn't sure and I'm still not sure what others use in their bakeries. Next time I go on a cupcake sampling adventure, I'll ask if the cakes are homemade and see what they say.
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Here's my logic on that: the overall result can vary in cake if over mixed or under mixed. I was thinking that by not having the paddle attachment that KitchenAid Mixers have that I was mixing for either to long or not long enough. And, I even said in my original post that I apologize for any "silly questions." So if that was "not even a little logical," okay, sorry!
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I was going for a base yellow cupcake- that I could modify to make other flavors. That can't be done with a scratch cake batter. NO ONE can achieve that, because when you add other flavors it changes the science of the recipe. That's why there are different recipes for different flavors. If you want something that works like this, you MUST stick to cake mixes they will let you make changes with a lower failure rate.
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So, my next question is: Are you saying FromScratchsf is a scientist who has done what NO ONE can? Did you try the recipe, and if so, what were the results? And King Arthur does have unbleached cake flour, I wish I could send you a picture of the box.
Bottom line of this post: everyone makes mistakes. We should be able to ask questions freely and respect other's opinions, even when its different from your own. Treat others the way you want to be treated, have an open mind and be willing to learn from and share with others. Again, thank you for your comments and willingness to share what you know about making delicious cakes!
I could split hairs and go line for line fighting with you over what you wrote verses what you meant to write. But I'm not into that kind of tit for tat.
I did write that if fromscratch recipe works as she and Liz say, it is a MIRICLE recipes, yes indeed!!!
I'm not a newbie to baking, I've done A LOT of work and studying of baking, it's more than a hobby to me it's my profession it's my life's work. Yes, I'm saying lightening has struck and the seas have parted that someone has been able to develop this! It's that unique!!! Fromscratch is also not a newbie, by any means......
If what I wrote and fromscratch wrote were wrong info. to others here, they would have voiced their opinions on this thread and shut us down.
.....as Liz did (and spoke up for fromscratches recipe praising it) and as AzCouture did praising my comments.
We are a community of different people here that don't agree on every little thing. People that can't take the heat of disagreement don't hang out here for long.......it's hard to hold every newbies hand and guess what they are trying to say between the lines of their posts, we expect you to swim or sink just like the rest of us do.
AYh just like every other thread on CC these days....
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