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Ask for the rest of my money?? - Page 2

post #16 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmykids2bits View Post
 

I'm hobby toying with business, but I struggle so much with the business side of thingsI KNOW that I underprice my cakes, but I just can't bring myself to charge more, so it ends up being the cost of ingredients and a pittance for my time.  That's why I'm not sure I could do this as a business...and that's why I'm thinking I should push myself and ask for the full amount rather than just "letting the $5 slide".  The easy way out for me would be to let the $5 slide, but that's not good business sense, because next time it might be a bigger amount.

 

I need big girl cake panties and I don't know where to find them.

 

I am amazed at what you posted. You need to re-read what you wrote above. Then read it again.

 

Being a hobby baker is fine if you stick with free cakes (and whatever else you make) for friends and family. But if you continue "hobby toying with business" then the next time you do not charge correctly, read your post again, along with the responses. Instead of posting here. 

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post #17 of 65

idk i think what you posted is a very common conundrum for cakers and for a lot if not most all cottage industries-

 

some of us just do for f&f friends & family, some as a hobby where they get reimbursed, some go balls to the wall (lovely sport terminology that) hang up a sign and blow it up with cakes and sweet creations for money--anything from pin money to house payment money--not for the timid--

 

i think we all find our place on the big cake thermometer from smokin' hot on down

 

in other words you don't have to find bgcp--do what you want to do and are comfortable with--nothing wrong with that

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post #18 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis View Post
 

idk i think what you posted is a very common conundrum for cakers and for a lot if not most all cottage industries-

 

some of us just do for f&f friends & family, some as a hobby where they get reimbursed, some go balls to the wall (lovely sport terminology that) hang up a sign and blow it up with cakes and sweet creations for money--anything from pin money to house payment money--not for the timid--

 

i think we all find our place on the big cake thermometer from smokin' hot on down

 

in other words you don't have to find bgcp--do what you want to do and are comfortable with--nothing wrong with that

 

Thanks, K8memphis.  This actually really resonates with me.  I KNOW that I am not a business person.   However, I didn't struggle as much with setting prices, etc, until I started hanging out on the forums on CC and seeing how much other people would charge for cakes equivalent to mine (the cake is question I charged $75, on here I'd guess other bakers would charge at least double that).  To be honest, though, I covered my costs and made about $8-10 an hour for my time.  It's something I love to do, I can do it with my preschool son around, on the days that I'm not working my part-time career job.  It's a hobby that makes other people happy, including myself.  I guess I got all dizzy as more and more people are telling me I should open a bakery, and it's got me thinking, well, maybe I should.  But you know what?  I love my career job, I love the flexibility of being able to refuse cake requests if I'd rather take my kids to the beach that weekend, and I think I might end up resenting caking if I have to make a go with it to cover the mortgage and stuff.  I live in an area where there's not a lot of people who will pay $200 for a two tier kid's birthday cake, and that's just the reality of it.

 

I'm too hard on myself....maybe I don't need to find my bgcp, because I do like things just the way they are.

 

Thanks.  I guess that was $5 well spent on personal self-reflection!

post #19 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmykids2bits View Post
 

 

Thanks, K8memphis.  This actually really resonates with me.  I KNOW that I am not a business person.   However, I didn't struggle as much with setting prices, etc, until I started hanging out on the forums on CC and seeing how much other people would charge for cakes equivalent to mine (the cake is question I charged $75, on here I'd guess other bakers would charge at least double that).  To be honest, though, I covered my costs and made about $8-10 an hour for my time.  It's something I love to do, I can do it with my preschool son around, on the days that I'm not working my part-time career job.  It's a hobby that makes other people happy, including myself.  I guess I got all dizzy as more and more people are telling me I should open a bakery, and it's got me thinking, well, maybe I should.  But you know what?  I love my career job, I love the flexibility of being able to refuse cake requests if I'd rather take my kids to the beach that weekend, and I think I might end up resenting caking if I have to make a go with it to cover the mortgage and stuff.  I live in an area where there's not a lot of people who will pay $200 for a two tier kid's birthday cake, and that's just the reality of it.

 

I'm too hard on myself....maybe I don't need to find my bgcp, because I do like things just the way they are.

 

Thanks.  I guess that was $5 well spent on personal self-reflection!

 

 

*:-)/\:-) high five 

if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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if an inmate is walking down the stairs is that condescending
 
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post #20 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmykids2bits View Post
 

 

I didn't struggle as much with setting prices, etc, until I started hanging out on the forums on CC ...To be honest, though, I covered my costs and made about $8-10 an hour for my time.  It's something I love to do, I can do it with my preschool son around, on the days that I'm not working my part-time career job.  It's a hobby that makes other people happy, including myself.  I guess I got all dizzy as more and more people are telling me I should open a bakery, and it's got me thinking, well, maybe I should.  ...there's not a lot of people who will pay $200 for a two tier kid's birthday cake, and that's just the reality of it.

 

I'm too hard on myself....maybe I don't need to find my bgcp, because I do like things just the way they are.

 

Thanks.  I guess that was $5 well spent on personal self-reflection!

So, you've decided you'll no longer sell to friends of friends and keep it a hobby. That's great.

 

People who tell you that you should "open a" bakery, or a restaurant, or a cupcake shop, or a deli don't REALLY mean it literally. It's a way of complimenting you that isn't intended to be taken a face value :)  but it is a wonderful compliment.

post #21 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcee View Post


People who tell you that you should "open a" bakery, or a restaurant, or a cupcake shop, or a deli don't REALLY mean it literally. It's a way of complimenting you that isn't intended to be taken a face value icon_smile.gif   but it is a wonderful compliment.


Right, because they're the first ones who will refuse to pay your prices when you try to charge enough to cover the overhead involved with a physical storefront. Even opening a business out of your home has costs that people don't count on, including insurance, license fees, extra utilities etc. Once you charge enough to make more than that $8-10 an hour the people telling you that you should have a business will be the first to cry "family discount" or "your prices are too high" or "don't i get it for free?"

If you add up all the time it took you to shop, clean, plan, answer emails, negotiate that extra $5 that you didn't get paid I bet you'd be surprised to find out that you didn't actually make $8-10 an hour, either. i'm being the voice of reality here, sorry to say.
post #22 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvmykids2bits View Post
 

 

I covered my costs and made about $8-10 an hour for my time ;-D

It's something I love to do ;-D,

I can do it with my preschool son around ;-D;-D;-D

It's a hobby that makes other people happy, including myself  ;-D

But you know what?  I love my career job, I love the flexibility of being able to refuse cake requests if I'd rather take my kids to the beach that weekend  ;-D,

 

 I guess that was $5 well spent on personal self-reflection! :party:

Well said!  Big virtual hug <<<hug>>>!

 

*K8memphis---"I think what you posted is a very common conundrum for cakers and for a lot if not most all cottage industries..."   I agree wholeheartedly

 

*Elcee---"People who tell you that you should "open a" bakery, or a restaurant, or a cupcake shop, or a deli don't REALLY mean it literally. It's a way of complimenting you that isn't intended to be taken a face value but it is a wonderful compliment."  Yes, it is indeed.

 

what is bgcp?  Bowling Green Cumberland Presbyterian?  Burner Gas c o c k Position?  Boys & Girls Clubs of Providence?

post #23 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apti View Post

 

what is bgcp?  Bowling Green Cumberland Presbyterian?  Burner Gas c o c k Position?  Boys & Girls Clubs of Providence?

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvmykids2bits View Post
 

...I need big girl cake panties and I don't know where to find them.

 

 

bgcp

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post #24 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar View Post


Right, because they're the first ones who will refuse to pay your prices when you try to charge enough to cover the overhead involved with a physical storefront. Even opening a business out of your home has costs that people don't count on, including insurance, license fees, extra utilities etc. Once you charge enough to make more than that $8-10 an hour the people telling you that you should have a business will be the first to cry "family discount" or "your prices are too high" or "don't i get it for free?"

If you add up all the time it took you to shop, clean, plan, answer emails, negotiate that extra $5 that you didn't get paid I bet you'd be surprised to find out that you didn't actually make $8-10 an hour, either. i'm being the voice of reality here, sorry to say.

This. I get told every day I should "open a REAL bakery." Well, I have one, it's in my house, and right now if I had to do any more work than I already do I'd go nuts. Being a business is not for the timid, especially if you have a preschooler at home. Good for you to admit that you aren't ready for the big commitment. I would leave the $5 as it is and keep your caking a real hobby until you're ready to turn it into a job. Good luck!

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post #25 of 65

some people do but i do not think selling to friends and family makes it more than a hobby--

 

i think one can sell to f & f and it still be a hobby in a lot of areas maybe not everywhere -- 

 

especially selling to f & f where you do not intend to be a business-- then it's a sugar hobby imo --

 

no need to remind me of all the tax obligations--i'm not talking about how to do it--i'm just saying

 

i think it's fine in most areas to bake a cake for your sister, the neighbor, or a co-worker and get reimbursed for out of pocket expenses or something even additional to that--

 

norman wilton is the one who opened pandora's box almost 50 years ago--not today's cakers

 

http://www.wilton.com/about/history.cfm

 

fwiw--i've been to the roseland showroom--i'm a fossil :lol:

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post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis View Post
 

some people do but i do not think selling to friends and family makes it more than a hobby--

 

i think one can sell to f & f and it still be a hobby in a lot of areas maybe not everywhere -- 

 

especially selling to f & f where you do not intend to be a business-- then it's a sugar hobby imo --

 

no need to remind me of all the tax obligations--i'm not talking about how to do it--i'm just saying

 

i think it's fine in most areas to bake a cake for your sister, the neighbor, or a co-worker and get reimbursed for out of pocket expenses or something even additional to that--

 

 


Completely agree (not that I get any money back for anything I make) but I don't understand why people think it is not ok to get the cost of the ingredients back - if I were to help my sister to put up her fence and I picked up and paid for the fencing materials I would certainly think it was on the proviso that she reimburse for the materials so I really don't understand the difference there, it doesn't make me a fencer, simply a person helping out my sister. Also I am not asking for someone to explain it to me - in my belief it just doesn't and will never make sense. :smile:

I may not make perfect cakes but I gaurantee they all contain a super special ingredient .... lots and lots of love .
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I may not make perfect cakes but I gaurantee they all contain a super special ingredient .... lots and lots of love .
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post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubs1stbirthday View Post
 


Completely agree (not that I get any money back for anything I make) but I don't understand why people think it is not ok to get the cost of the ingredients back - if I were to help my sister to put up her fence and I picked up and paid for the fencing materials I would certainly think it was on the proviso that she reimburse for the materials so I really don't understand the difference there, it doesn't make me a fencer, simply a person helping out my sister. Also I am not asking for someone to explain it to me - in my belief it just doesn't and will never make sense. :smile:

I don't think anyone really cares if you get reimbursed for cost of supplies for cakes made for friends and family. Where it starts to matter is when you sell a cake that you KNOW you undercharged for to friends-of-friends-of-family. We all know there are those people who try to hide behind being a "hobbyist" but are really selling a lot of under priced cakes so they make extra money without reporting any of it. THAT is what makes legal bakers most upset. A few bad apples have spoiled the barrel, so to speak.

 

It's the extra money, on top of ingredients, that they make without reporting it as income. Legal bakers DO report it as income and have to pay taxes and insurance and make less profit because of it. Then those same people who are used to getting cheap cake freak out at a legal baker over prices that they find "overpriced" when it is really the other way around..the illegal baker has under priced cakes and made legal bakers out to be price gouging and heartless.

 

It's a lot of work to price out your exact costs, try out recipes to create a menu, set up a website, market yourself in a community, learn and abide by all of the local and state laws and regs, seek out and purchase insurance, register your business, keep track of expenditures..all before even getting to the fun part of baking and decorating a single cake. What doesn't make sense to me is how people can so easily dismiss all of that work by saying that a legal baker is overpriced when they haven't ever sat down to figure out any of the numbers themselves. What's heartless is telling a legal baker that we need to work for $4 an hour to compete with the illegal bakers prices because they haven't done their homework to price out costs and are not compliant with laws and taxes. 

 

I agree that helping your sister with a fence doesn't make you a fencer. But if your sister's neighbor's friend "hires" you to build their fence and pays costs of materials plus an extra $75..that is taking away from a legal fencer who went through all of the right steps to certify their business, pay taxes and pay their workers at least minimum wage. Do you see how that would make the legal person upset?

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post #28 of 65

Way to go, sixinarow!

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post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixinarow View Post
 

I don't think anyone really cares if you get reimbursed for cost of supplies for cakes made for friends and family. Where it starts to matter is when you sell a cake that you KNOW you undercharged for to friends-of-friends-of-family. We all know there are those people who try to hide behind being a "hobbyist" but are really selling a lot of under priced cakes so they make extra money without reporting any of it. THAT is what makes legal bakers most upset. A few bad apples have spoiled the barrel, so to speak.

 

It's the extra money, on top of ingredients, that they make without reporting it as income. Legal bakers DO report it as income and have to pay taxes and insurance and make less profit because of it. Then those same people who are used to getting cheap cake freak out at a legal baker over prices that they find "overpriced" when it is really the other way around..the illegal baker has under priced cakes and made legal bakers out to be price gouging and heartless.

 

It's a lot of work to price out your exact costs, try out recipes to create a menu, set up a website, market yourself in a community, learn and abide by all of the local and state laws and regs, seek out and purchase insurance, register your business, keep track of expenditures..all before even getting to the fun part of baking and decorating a single cake. What doesn't make sense to me is how people can so easily dismiss all of that work by saying that a legal baker is overpriced when they haven't ever sat down to figure out any of the numbers themselves. What's heartless is telling a legal baker that we need to work for $4 an hour to compete with the illegal bakers prices because they haven't done their homework to price out costs and are not compliant with laws and taxes. 

 

I agree that helping your sister with a fence doesn't make you a fencer. But if your sister's neighbor's friend "hires" you to build their fence and pays costs of materials plus an extra $75..that is taking away from a legal fencer who went through all of the right steps to certify their business, pay taxes and pay their workers at least minimum wage. Do you see how that would make the legal person upset?

 

This!  Thank you sixinarow for saying what many are thinking.

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post #30 of 65
Thumbs up sixinarow!
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