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FDA ruling could ban shortening with trans fats in US - Page 5

post #61 of 201

Costumeczar,  How do you flavor this icing.  Do a few tablespoons of vanilla effect the texture?  How about fruit purees or dairy creamers?

post #62 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBalaska View Post
 

... They got their palms greased...  

 

Thank you, MB, I LOVE puns. 

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post #63 of 201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by embersmom View Post

From a cake standpoint, though, this could very well matter somewhere down the line.  It's true that a lot of shortening products are no longer made with trans fats, but I'm willing to bet that there are more still being made with them.  My guess is that most of those are of the Sweetex or other commercial-only variety.  My greater fear is that the manufacturers will find something else that's worse for you, healthwise, and make that its new standard because it'll be cheaper to manufacture.  On a greater scale, that's what it's all about.

Every major manufacturer of high ratio shortening has a zero-trans-fat product by now so they can remain in the California market. Generally the replacement has been palm oil with added emulsifiers...palm oil has its own issues involving the environmental impact of its cultivation and its saturated fat content but it is still a better alternative than trans fat.

I'm not sure why healthier fats like canola oil are not used more widely in shortening, it may be due to performance of the product and/or the cost. Given that so many food manufacturers will be reformulating their products, this may be a good opportunity for a healthier and more sustainable shortening product to be introduced since the existing ZTF shortenings set a lower bar for performance.
post #64 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft View Post

... Given that so many food manufacturers will be reformulating their products, this may be a good opportunity for a healthier and more sustainable shortening product to be introduced...

 

R&D departments are kept busy with both new product development and, for a variety of reasons, reformulation of existing products. I agree with Jason that this FDA ruling may spur competition to create better quality shortening for our recipes. Now is the time to contact customer service departments with your suggestions. Whether you realize or not, they do pay attention. 

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post #65 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by kblickster View Post

Costumeczar,  How do you flavor this icing.  Do a few tablespoons of vanilla effect the texture?  How about fruit purees or dairy creamers?

You mean the all-butter one with confectioner's sugar? i don't even bother putting vanilla in since that will make it darker. It really does taste better than the version with shortening...my kids are my taste testers and they both wanted more of it when I gave it to them to try. I only use it for the outside of cakes, and I use meringue buttercreams for the fillings. I don't know how it would take flavorings, you's probably have to add more sugar to it, but that's something you'd have to experiment with.
post #66 of 201

Once you take a naturally healthy food such as Canola Oil and put it through the hydrogenation process you no longer have the healthy food of Canola Oil you have a synthetic modified food that is solid at room temperature which has  ‘Trans Fatty Acids.’

 

Your FDA says that Trans fatty acids are unhealthy fats that form when vegetable oil hardens in a process called hydrogenation .

 

Hydrogenation,  chemical reaction between molecular hydrogen and an element or compound, ordinarily in the presence of a catalyst. The reaction may be one in which hydrogen simply adds to a double or triple bond connecting two atoms in the structure of the molecule or one in which the addition of hydrogen results in dissociation (breaking up) of the molecule (called hydrogenolysis, or destructive hydrogenation). Typical hydrogenation reactions include the reaction of hydrogen and nitrogen to form ammonia and the reaction of hydrogen and carbon monoxide to form methanol or hydrocarbons, depending on the choice of catalyst.

 

Nearly all organic compounds containing multiple bonds connecting two atoms can react with hydrogen in the presence of a catalyst. The hydrogenation of organic compounds (through addition and hydrogenolysis) is a reaction of great industrial importance. The addition of hydrogen is used in the production of edible fats from liquid oils.

 

The industrial importance of the hydrogenation process dates from 1897, when the French chemist Paul Sabatier discovered that the introduction of a trace of nickel as a catalyst facilitated the addition of hydrogen to molecules of carbon compounds.  (meaning motor oil, then applied the process to food oil)

 

**This is the circle.  It started with Butter and lard as normal food, it ends with butter and lard as the recommended safest normal food.  I like butter, I like lard, I like trans-fatty Shortening, I don't like bear fat though - it really had a wild gamey taste yuck.

Of course we all have our limits, but how can you possibly find your boundaries unless you explore as far and as wide as you possibly can? I would rather fail in an attempt at something new and uncharted than safely succeed in a repeat of something
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Of course we all have our limits, but how can you possibly find your boundaries unless you explore as far and as wide as you possibly can? I would rather fail in an attempt at something new and uncharted than safely succeed in a repeat of something
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post #67 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBalaska View Post
 

... I don't like bear fat though - it really had a wild gamey taste yuck.

 

whoa--crossing it off my list  right now  :lol: i'll stick with butter but i did harvest some bacon fat last week--great for frying eggs, popping popcorn ;)

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one baker's 'never ever do' is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
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post #68 of 201

K8memphis:  harvesting bacon.....yummy.  ;-D

 

What about natural trans fats? According to the USDA, a pound of ground beef has more than 8g of natural trans fat.

 

       Web MD Jan. 20, 2012 -- All trans fats are not created equal.

Some are manmade, and have been added to all sorts of foods to increase their shelf life, but others can be found naturally in beef, pork, lamb, butter, and milk.

Of course we all have our limits, but how can you possibly find your boundaries unless you explore as far and as wide as you possibly can? I would rather fail in an attempt at something new and uncharted than safely succeed in a repeat of something
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Of course we all have our limits, but how can you possibly find your boundaries unless you explore as far and as wide as you possibly can? I would rather fail in an attempt at something new and uncharted than safely succeed in a repeat of something
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post #69 of 201

Apparently the feds aren't subsidizing trans-fat, if they were, they wouldn't have decided it was dangerous.  

 

 What about high fructose corn syrup? No one can argue that stuff is good for you, but it is subsidized big time.

post #70 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis View Post
 

 

whoa--crossing it off my list  right now  :lol: i'll stick with butter but i did harvest some bacon fat last week--great for frying eggs, popping popcorn ;)

 

I love frying eggs in bacon fat . . . but with the advent of those convenient little boxes of pre-cooked bacon, I rarely cook up a batch at home anymore.

 

Liz

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post #71 of 201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBalaska View Post

What about natural trans fats? According to the USDA, a pound of ground beef has more than 8g of natural trans fat.

       Web MD Jan. 20, 2012 -- All trans fats are not created equal.
Some are manmade, and have been added to all sorts of foods to increase their shelf life, but others can be found naturally in beef, pork, lamb, butter, and milk.

There is no way to remove natural trans fats from beef, pork, lamb, butter, and milk. Humans have been consuming natural trans fats from these sources as a primary component of their diet since before the dawn of civilization so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume natural trans fats are safe. Science supports this, as these natural trans fats (conjugated linoleic acid or CLA) are apparently more healthy than artificial trans fats.
http://chriskresser.com/can-some-trans-fats-be-healthy

By contrast, it is easy to reformulate existing products that use artificial trans fats to use similar ingredients that do not contain artificial trans fats.
post #72 of 201
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MBalaska View Post

Once you take a naturally healthy food such as Canola Oil and put it through the hydrogenation process you no longer have the healthy food of Canola Oil you have a synthetic modified food that is solid at room temperature which has  ‘Trans Fatty Acids.’

Fully hydrogenated oil does not contain trans fat.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/trans-fat/CL00032
post #73 of 201

Quote:

Originally Posted by carmijok View Post
 

 

 

You know you can force people to eat organic vegetables and exercise all day long and some will still be fat,  and some will die of cancer and some will still have heart disease.  Linda McCartney, famous vegan who died of breast cancer comes to mind as well as the acclaimed runner Jim Fixx who died of a heart attack while running.  We don't get out of this alive!

 

...

 

Am I an advocate for all trans-fats?  Not really...but I am against FORCING an entire industry to change based solely on the studies-du-jour that claim we're all going to die.  if you remember 30 years ago, trans-fats were introduced as a 'healthy' alternative to fats like that pesky coconut oil!  My have times have changed.  I'm so sick of this 'first- it's-bad-then- it's- good' flip-flop philosophy.

 

The problem with your argument is the assumption that vegan is a healthy diet and the use of an exceptional example like Jim Fixx. You're right, we are all going to die, but that's an example of someone who probably denied her body of some essential nutrients and a person with an unusual genetic history. There are plenty of people eating healthily and living healthy lifestyles who are extending their lives. 

 

Transfats are not going to flip and be called healthy again - when "they" said they were healthy, it was partly because there was no history of artificial foods at the the time. No one was touting that it was proven to be safe --- it was more like it didn't occur to them that it might not be and the manufacturers didn't care. Trans fats were a substitute for saturated fats which were thought to be bad. Relatively, no one would have been hurt from reducing the amount of saturated fat in their diet. The problem was the substitution in processed foods. That's an example of why we shouldn't assume any BPA free containers are safe just because they don't contain BPA.  Industry doesn't care what they package in, but now we know BPA is bad, so they'll use anything without BPA. The customer makes the leap of assumption that the new product is safe.

 

Coconut oil was thought to be bad because of its saturated fats, but now we know it's not as simple as saturated fats, but inflammation (from substances like sugar) that causes heart disease. Are we in for some surprises? No doubt, but that's not a reason to avoid substances we know are harmful.

 

Will the government ban result in substitution of something worse that transfat? Time will tell. As they say, just eat fresh fruits, vegetable and meats. Careful with the grains.

post #74 of 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by howsweet View Post

Quote:
The problem with your argument is the assumption that vegan is a healthy diet and the use of an exceptional example like Jim Fixx. You're right, we are all going to die, but that's an example of someone who probably denied her body of some essential nutrients and a person with an unusual genetic history. There are plenty of people eating healthily and living healthy lifestyles who are extending their lives. 

Transfats are not going to flip and be called healthy again - when "they" said they were healthy, it was partly because there was no history of artificial foods at the the time. No one was touting that it was proven to be safe --- it was more like it didn't occur to them that it might not be and the manufacturers didn't care. Trans fats were a substitute for saturated fats which were thought to be bad. Relatively, no one would have been hurt from reducing the amount of saturated fat in their diet. The problem was the substitution in processed foods. That's an example of why we shouldn't assume any BPA free containers are safe just because they don't contain BPA.  Industry doesn't care what they package in, but now we know BPA is bad, so they'll use anything without BPA. The customer makes the leap of assumption that the new product is safe.

Coconut oil was thought to be bad because of its saturated fats, but now we know it's not as simple as saturated fats, but inflammation (from substances like sugar) that causes heart disease. Are we in for some surprises? No doubt, but that's not a reason to avoid substances we know are harmful.

Will the government ban result in substitution of something worse that transfat? Time will tell. As they say, just eat fresh fruits, vegetable and meats. Careful with the grains.

Well it's not MY assumption that a vegan diet is healthy...it's what's being promoted ad nauseum these days. Ever hear of 'meatless Monday's?' And Jim Fixx is certainly not the only 'healthy' person to have dropped dead. He's just one of the most well known. My point is that people should be able to follow whatever lifestyle they want and if being vegan is your thing, or running marathons makes you feel good, then that's what you should do. It's just no guarantee that you --as an individual --will live longer no matter how many studies there are. What should NOT happen is to have those lifestyles blanket- enforced on everyone 'for our own good'!

If enough people decide they'd rather not consume trans fats, manufacturers will get rid of them in order to keep their customers happy and themselves in business. That's why so many companies have already taken them out of their products! To assume that a forced regulation will cause childhood and adult obesity rates to drop is ludicrous! If you eat 14 cupcakes everyday it makes no difference If they're free of trans fats or not! So why force EVERY manufacturer in the country to switch their process when the problem lies more with personal responsibility?

Successful companies are the ones that change and adapt to prevailing trends. Those that don't will either disappear or maintain a loyal enough following that the market for that item will prove to be a viable alternative. And what is wrong with that? Used to be, having choices was a great thing!

I do not use Crisco in my buttercream so it makes no difference to me whether they have trans fat in there or not. But it was CRISCO that made the decision to take it out...(without a government mandate I might add) and now there are those that are not happy about it. So should those individuals have NO alternative? And where does all this good-for-you-or-else legislation stop?

You yourself mentioned the inflammatory properties of sugar! Stop sugar! That will protect everyone, right? I happen to agree that sugar wreaks havoc on certain individuals...myself included...however, Ive got enough sense to take care of myself...but our industry is all about sugar! OMG....we're the reason little Johnny is a tubbo! Never mind he sits in front of a computer all day and night! We need to be regulated for our own good!

Obviously the FDA, as much as they'd love to also put a ban on sugar, that won't happen. No, what will happen and IS happening is a sugar tax. Yes, in order to make everyone believe the government cares so much about you, anything with sugar in it will be taxed to the nines. So, our costs go up, the customer has to pay more, and everyone will feel great knowing they're putting an end to childhood obesity., right?

I am not trying to be the champion of trans fats or sugar! i am more concerned with a government entity deciding what choices we can or cannot make!

It's time people took responsibility for their own actions and their kids behavior. Want to end obesity? Don't eat so much! Step away from the phone and computer and walk somewhere. Take your kid with you. Learn to cook --with real food. Enjoy everything in moderation --including cake. And don't depend on government regulations to save you from yourself because no matter what is or isn't banned, and no matter how much you believe forcing people to 'do the right thing' is possible, it ultimately is the individual that will decide his or her fate.
Edited by carmijok - 11/10/13 at 3:47pm

If I am ever on life support, unplug me...

Then plug me back in.  See if that works!

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If I am ever on life support, unplug me...

Then plug me back in.  See if that works!

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post #75 of 201

Well lookie here, just this month in the Los Angeles Times. A cardiologist from Harvard and a Washintonian food council member says they're heading in this direction of bans.  First Trans fats, then Salt, then Sugar.   Molon Labe.

 

["FDA's trans fat decision: An opening for regulating salt, sugar?"]

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-fda-transfat-salt-sugar-regulation-20131107,0,536733.story#axzz2kI3cZylJ

 

The R & D people are going to be going out of their heads resolving those issues.  Bring back the old fatty Crisco....... It's not like anyone eats it out of the tub with a spoon.

Of course we all have our limits, but how can you possibly find your boundaries unless you explore as far and as wide as you possibly can? I would rather fail in an attempt at something new and uncharted than safely succeed in a repeat of something
Reply
Of course we all have our limits, but how can you possibly find your boundaries unless you explore as far and as wide as you possibly can? I would rather fail in an attempt at something new and uncharted than safely succeed in a repeat of something
Reply
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