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Am I overreacting about this contract change? - Page 3  

post #31 of 60
And this cake is for a wedding barely over a month away......hmm one has to wonder why it took so long to find someone to do the cake. And do we All bake here? Or just stir the pot because we're board
post #32 of 60
You should not make that change. It does change the entire tone and meaning of the contract AND more importantly, in a civil suit he does not have to prove you were negligent necessarily, but you will be the one wo has to prove you were not. That can be, at the least, very expensive, and ruin your business just defending a lawsuit like that, because in the food business you are only remembered for your last mistake.

This is not worth the risk for 400.00 which, in my opinion, does not even pay for your time and supplies etc.

When an attorney plays attorney in his social life he needs something to remind him that someone else wrote that contract and that clause was nt in there for a very very good reason.
post #33 of 60
I should have added that there is a reason he is asking you to make this cake on such short notice: because anyone he has approached is also not willing to risk their business for him over a cake that does not even meet minimum orders for any kind of wedding or similar style cake.

Also, not only would your premium go up but they could cancel your policy and you might not be able to secure a decent policy without going through a high risk pool.

I would send and email and then a certified mail notice to the venue that you will not be taking him as a client and they need to secure another baker. He should have had the venue provide the cake, but it sounds like he thought it might be "cost effective" to seek a baker outside the venue's standard package.

It all sounds a little fishy to me.
post #34 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaVermont View Post

I should have added that there is a reason he is asking you to make this cake on such short notice: because anyone he has approached is also not willing to risk their business for him over a cake that does not even meet minimum orders for any kind of wedding or similar style cake.
How exactly do you know this? Five weeks isn't really that "short notice" anyway.
Quote:
Also, not only would your premium go up but they could cancel your policy and you might not be able to secure a decent policy without going through a high risk pool.
True, but only if OP were found negligent, or since the terms have been revised again, grossly negligent (which is a pretty high bar).
Quote:
I would send and email and then a certified mail notice to the venue that you will not be taking him as a client and they need to secure another baker. He should have had the venue provide the cake, but it sounds like he thought it might be "cost effective" to seek a baker outside the venue's standard package.
If I was managing a venue and a vendor told me they would not do business with a customer because the customer wanted them to take responsibility in the case of gross negligence, that vendor would no longer be welcome in my venue.
post #35 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmandaVermont View Post

more importantly, in a civil suit he does not have to prove you were negligent necessarily, but you will be the one wo has to prove you were not.

Generally speaking, that is not true.
post #36 of 60
5 weeks not short notice for a Wedding cake and on new years eve yeah right that's not short notice yeah right
post #37 of 60

I don't think I've ever seen a thread so full of gross active assumptions and gross active speculation!

post #38 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godot View Post

I don't think I've ever seen a thread so full of gross active assumptions and gross active speculation!

well I certainly hope they were not on my part! 

 

After further thought, I have decided to keep the clause in my contract from here on out. Gross active negligence in a cake setting would mean that I actively caused someone bodily harm by being negligent in a "big" way. Like putting staples in the cake or somehow causing it to explode and injure the guests. Since I would never be actively negligent anyway, I feel this is fair and as others have said, more neutral. 

 

I am sorry some of you have had bad experiences with lawyers. I for one have been lucky and have nothing but good things to say about those I've worked with. I truly thought it would give perspective on why he was getting technical and whether or not his request was valid, not to totally tear him a new one because of his profession (although the calculator joke still makes me ticked!!!)

 

I was hoping that cooler heads would prevail and my emotions on being called out by this guy would not allow me to make a mess over the situation. And voila, they did! Thanks to the cooler heads!!!

 

And being that they are both about 62 years old and members of this country club, that their wedding invite says "no gifts" and they are just having a nice dinner with no flowers, photographer, etc, it is reasonable that this couple didn't see the urgency in ordering their cake ahead of time. The venue doesn't provide cake and uses me for as many events as they can- and I LOVE the manager, so I wanted to make sure I didn't damage my reputation with them over a simple wording dispute.

 

Thanks to those who took the time to advise me, I really, really appreciate it!!!

life is short, get a cakesafe.
life is short, get a cakesafe.
post #39 of 60

Hell, I probably would have said something like "Oh would you mind telling me what I should say, does everything else look sound?" You know, take advantage of having a lawyer for a client, and get some free legal advice....that's just me though. I have one across the street I yap with every once in a while. icon_lol.gif

*Top 100 Designers in The USA, Brides Magazine, 2013*<---little ole' me!
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post #40 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitches View Post

You need to accept that people are entitled to their own opinions and in public forums they are free to express those.
I absolutely agree.
post #41 of 60

Jenmat, I'm happy to hear that you were able to resolve your concerns with this client.  I agree, the calculator comment was impolite and would set you off with a bad feeling towards anything else he says.  

All of the disparaging comments against lawyers are really unfair.  I know many lawyers and I worked at a large law firm while I was in college and for a few years afterward.  Like any profession (bakers included), some are wonderful people and some are greedy and out for only themselves.  The generalization of lawyers being dishonest and selfish is just not true.  Thanks, Jenmat (and others) for saying so as well.  Doing business with a lawyer does not mean you are asking for trouble.  None of us should sign a contract if we don't agree with the terms.  I've made changes to contracts I felt unfair and, had the other party not agreed with my changes, I would agree that we shouldn't do business (no hard feelings, just business).    

While I truly respect and appreciate Doug's business knowledge, I would not copy a contract directly from him (or anyone else).  The laws in your state could be very different and his contract may not protect you as it should.  I strongly recommend that you hire an attorney familiar with the laws in your state to review your contract or draft a new one.  A contract is not worth anything if it is not legally valid in your state.  Jenmat, it sounds as if you actually received a bonus by working with this groom/attorney - you were able to have your contract reviewed.  Though, he was reviewing it for the customer's side of things, so I would still recommend having an attorney review it with your interests in mind.

post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullHouse View Post



All of the disparaging comments against lawyers are really unfair.  I know many lawyers and I worked at a large law firm while I was in college and for a few years afterward.  Like any profession (bakers included), some are wonderful people and some are greedy and out for only themselves.  The generalization of lawyers being dishonest and selfish is just not true.  

I'm sorry, I am guilty of writing disparaging comments...........and I do feel bad because it isn't right to slander a whole profession. Honestly, that wasn't my intent at all!

 

(I personally have had some serious (and VERY expensive) dealings with lawyers and I wanted others to know that you need to take great caution when your dealing with legal issues. It's relatively cheap to hire a lawyer to draw up a contract, compared to needing to hire a lawyer to help you after you have a problem. Had I not been through what I was through, I'd have no ideas just how extremely expensive legal services are.)

 

 

 I'm certain there are many great people that are lawyers!!

post #43 of 60

Stitches, I understand where you are coming from completely. Unless a person has walked in your shoes a mile they have no idea about how you get treated when dealing with some lawyers.  I have been there and I completely understand!!!!  Until a person gets burned by them they have no idea and most are blind because they have not walked in your shoes!!!

Hopefully nothing bad will happen with this lawyer issue and the contract! My prayers are with you all! !/Mary
 

post #44 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitches View Post

I'm sorry, I am guilty of writing disparaging comments...........and I do feel bad because it isn't right to slander a whole profession. Honestly, that wasn't my intent at all!

 

 

 

 I'm certain there are many great people that are lawyers!!

 

Stitches, I am sorry that you had such a difficult experience.  I can definitely understand that that experience has left you with bad feelings, glad to see you are not intending to generalize the entire profession :).  

 

 

Quote:
(I personally have had some serious (and VERY expensive) dealings with lawyers and I wanted others to know that you need to take great caution when your dealing with legal issues. It's relatively cheap to hire a lawyer to draw up a contract, compared to needing to hire a lawyer to help you after you have a problem.

 

Great advice, unless you know someone very well, you are always going to need to be careful when dealing with anyone.  And it is definitely more cost effective to have a great contract to protect yourself ahead of time than having to pay for the bigger mess later (same reason we have insurance).

 

 

 

Quote:
Had I not been through what I was through, I'd have no ideas just how extremely expensive legal services are.)

 

Lawyers can be expensive, and many make a very nice living, but they also take a huge responsibility, long hours and high stress in exchange (not to mention the expense of Law School, continuing education, insurance, staff, technology and overhead expenses, etc.).  My original plan was to be an attorney (the nice kind icon_wink.gif), until I saw all being an attorney required when I worked at a firm.  I then realized that I would not be happy trying to balance a demanding career and a family (this was way before I had kids).  It sure gave me an understanding of how they work and why they charge what they do.  After all, I had no idea why custom cakes cost so much until I started making them myself.  

post #45 of 60

JasonKraft is right.  We are all hiding behind our "Contracts" but if there is something seriously wrong with the cake, nails, pins etc...  then you will get sued, contract or not.  My friend is a lawyer, and he said you can sue anyone if you can prove that their product was faulty.

 

So go with your gut, don't do things you are uncomfortable with.  But it all comes down to your product and if it is faulty and he can prove it.   Use only the freshest ingredients don't add any odd or unusual ingredients and you will be fine.  He is just being an ass.  He was taught to always read the fine print and make up crap by reading between the lines.  LOL  icon_biggrin.gif

 

Good luck he's a tough customer.   Maybe he has a poor sense of humor too.

 

Take Care

Quinte West, Ontario, Canada   www.TeriLovesCake.ca   Strictly Wheat & Gluten-Free         

 

Quinte West, Ontario, Canada   www.TeriLovesCake.ca   Strictly Wheat & Gluten-Free         

 

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