AWhat do you think of a 4 tier, 6", 8", 10", 12" cake to serve 100 and save the top tier, in all red velvet with caramel filling? A bride I have a deposit for has requested it, and I want your honest opinion of how it will go over with the guests. Don't hold back.

She put her deposit down a while back, and hasn't paid the balance, though it was due last week. The wedding is next weekend.

A30 minutes and 9 views and no one has an opinion? Do you think everyone is going to be thrilled with that combo?

As a matter of fact, that used to be a popular choice at my tastings. Since they get to match the cake with the fillings they want to try, all kinds of seemingly odd things were chosen. Haven't had anyone choose it in over a year, but I don't think I always have red velvet out for them either.

AI mean for the entire cake! Do you think EVERYONE will be thrilled? Or would it be better to offer a choice?

I know this is going to sound snarky but I'm seriously trying to help you out.  What really matters is 1.) the bride hasn't paid you yet so she shouldn't be getting a cake at all ................in any flavor.  2.) no matter how funny her requested combinations are, you have to do what she says, it's her day and if her guests end up with red mouths - oh well, that's what she ordered.  - I know, I know, bugs the heck out of you but that's the nature of the beast.

I sometimes wonder about these cakes with multiple different cakes and fillings in the different tiers, if the guests really get a choice at all.  Or if the servers just pick up a tray of whatever cake has been cut and pass it around to the guests and they get what they get.  Hard for me to picture them actually asking each of the guests which of the choices they want and giving them the asked for piece.   But maybe this is more a reflection of the low brow weddings I have been to that have a buffet and no servers.  A lot of the flavor combinations sound cool since I like to try different things, but I bet a lot of guests would rather have plain vanilla or chocolate.
 

Double edged sword, multiple flavor cakes. I did a 7 tier with 7 different cakes. The bride and I thought it would be cool to put a framed menu next to it. Unfortunately that invited everyone to have 3 or 4 slices. :( Sooooooooo, not cool if they get free reign over grabbing slices. Honestly, best to stick to one or two.

IMO, red velvet is nasty, and although I adore caramel, I can't even imagine it in red velvet.  yuk. 

When I was dong wedding cakes I always encouraged the bride to have each tier a different flavor.  it wasn't much if any extra trouble and it insured the expensive cake gets eaten.  I'd rather hear the bride coming back exclaiming that "everyone wanted 2 or 3 slices" rather than "No One ate the cake."

A

Actually, no, that's not the nature of my business. I built it from nothing, and I'm not going to let some young girl with no life experience ruin my reputation. Since, as you said, she hasn't paid, I don't have to do anything for her. I don't have to do what anyone says if it goes against my business. I don't do naughty cakes, I don't do mud or hummingbird or Ititalian meringue, or toilet cakes or pile of poop cakes...and I send bridezillas to the next place down the road. My bakery is paid for, and I have an excellent reputation. My cakes are beautiful and delicious, and I do what I want, when I want. I dont accept stupid looking cakes, either. It's mine, and that is why i went into business for myself, because I don't take orders well. Since the bakery is paid for, and it is from my Converted garage, I can get away with it.

And it wasn't so much the combo, as it is because it is the entire cake. I think I'll be giving half the deposit back, and she can find another cake in the next week.

Everyting seems fine. From the Wilton page that size cake should be 118 servings.  I find I usually have more.  My problem is the final deposit.  You need to have a set time between the final deposit and delivery.  I know I am not perfect and too nice with that, but to protect yourself try to adopt a policy.

A

I do have a policy that cakes need to be paid for by two weeks out from the wedding date, and I sent reminders, but her mom is the administrator or secretary at my church, and I was being nice. But she hadn't contacted me to pay me or let me know what was going on. It is definitely getting old. I don't normally have a problem, I am comfortable with my policy.

I am also comfortable withy serving count. I use a in between Wilton and Earlenes serving count. I don't give away as much cake as Earlene, but more generous than Wilton.

My problem is that it us a rich, heavy, non- mainstream combo that 114 people are supposed to all eat. And I know that not not everybody eats cake, but I am of the mind there should be cake for the majority of the guests. There is no way that the better part of 100 people will want that combo. I talked to her about doing a cream cheese filled tier and she liked that idea, then changed her mind, and went back to all caramel, because she and her HTB wanted it. So I asked "We you two planning on eating the entire thing yourselves? ;-) " and she replies "if we please yes. Im saying this nicely but we are paying for it and I would say that we probably know our guests well enough to understand what they like and dont."

That chaps my ass for a couple reasons, one being that no, as far as I can see, she isn't paying me! It was due on the second. Another reason is that she assumes that I will do as told for money. I am not a cake whore, I do t do many different things, I don't care how much I'm paid! And another because she is a very young girl, what does she know about it better than me? I've been doing cakes since before she was born. So I replied back, "We need to discuss this. There has been a misunderstanding. You are paying me for my professional services, I am not an employee. I don't do what I'm told to make a buck, I offer my expertise and experience to help you have a wonderful party to celebrate your new life. It is my professional opinion that a 4 tier cake to serve 100 people should either be a neutral flavor that everyone likes, or have flavors to choose from. Many people feel very strongly about red velvet. Like it belongs with cream cheese or that they don't like it at all. It is a love it or hate it flavor. There is not a single group of 100 people who will like red velvet with caramel filling. While you are young, you will be excused from such an inexperienced choice, I am a professional and it is my job to try to politely steer you in the right direction. Meaning: many people are going to hate your cake, and i am going to get the blame for it. My business has been built on word of mouth and I am not so hard up for cash that I will ruin my reputation for one small cake. "

And I know many people won't agree, but I would rather not do it at all if it makes me look bad. And I know turning a cake down because its all one nutty flavor will make me look bad too, but it is my business, and if I compromise on everything, my wedding cake business will be churning out pumpkin pie and brownies and puffs and I will hate it.

If I went to a wedding and it was all German chocolate, or mango coconut, or chocolate pistachio, I wouldn't eat it! But if it was all white or yellow, I could eat it, but I prefer chocolate. More people like the neutral flavors over something weird. Try to appeal to your guests, it's selfish not to.

By the way, I declined to do the cake in all Red Velvet Caramel. After trying it (bleh!), and asking around, I determined that it would not be a popular choice. Contrary to popular opinion,  I don't run a business exclusively to make money, I also do it so I don't have to take on ugly cakes, or stupid people. I run a principled business. Here are the messages we sent, it's pretty stupid. It shouldn't be too hard to follow. Texts are grouped by the sender, with a space between, and she starts it. (BTW, I prefer written communication over spoken, so there is record of it, and also because it is noisy at my house with 4 kids and a husband. Anyone can call at anytime, though, if they want.)

Hey anna. This is h******* b******. I sent you an email a week ago about the payment for the cake. And I haven't heard back. I just now was able to find y
our card. I didn't know if you still had my dads credit card number or not. It so just use that for the rest of the payment. If not could you please give me your address again so I can swingby and give you the check. Please let me know!!!! Sorry its late!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!! (It was after 11 pm!and 8 days before the wedding)

I got back with you, im sorry, maybe check your SPAM folder?. No, I don't keep card information. I can run it through first thing in the morning, if you want to send it tonight. Did you want 3 flavors? Do you just want me to choose the most popular that will go with your flavors? (the day before they finalization and payment were due, she said she would also choose white with strawberry filling)

Ah! My stinking email must be acting up again!!! Yeah. Let me get the card info to you tomorrow since my dad is sleeping now. We kinda just wanted to sti
ck with red velvet cake and caramel filling:-)  we are having a dessert reception so I dont think its a big deal to have 3 different flavors. If that's ok.

There will be people disappointed that there is no cream cheese filling in the red velvet. Mine is quite popular up there ;-) maybe you could do the top two small tier with the cream cheese, and the larger, with caramel? (I do a lot cakes for people at our church.)

Ok. Sounds good! So will there be 4 tiers or 3? Sorry I forgot 

I will text you to let you know for sure tomorrow, but I am almost certain it is 4. I'm in bed.

Ah! Haha same! That's fine! As long as the top that's ours is red velvet and caramel all is good! I will talk to you tomorrow then! Thanks 
K. Thanks. 

(the next day 7 days before the wedding) )It is 4 tiers :-) What time may I expect you with the payment? (no reply, the day she said she would be there with the payment, and she didn't show up)

(the NEXT day, 6 days before the wedding)Hey I dont know if its too late. But I talked to s**** and we would really like to stick with red velvet and caramel.

It is too late, final payment was due over a week ago, and all flavors and fillings needed to be chosen last week. Were you two planning on eating the entire thing yourselves? ;-) 

If we please yes. Im saying this nicely but we are paying for it and I would say that we probably know our guests well enough to understand what they like and dont.
And the frosting is buttercream right?

We need to discuss this. There has been a misunderstanding. You are paying me for my professional services, I am not an employee. And I haven't been paid.

Obviously we are misunderstanding eachother.

I don't do what I'm told to make a buck, I offer my expertise and experience to help you have a wonderful party to celebrate your new life. 
It is my professional opinion that a 4 tier cake to serve 100 people should either be a neutral flavor that everyone likes, or have flavors to choose from.

I understand that and im glad you want to help make it wonderful party for us! I have heard great things about you and your cakes. I appreciate your opinin but I think im stinking with red velvet and caramel. 

How many guests are you planning on being at the reception?

About 125 are how many that have responded. 

Many people feel very strongly about red velvet. Like it belongs with cream cheese or that they don't like it at all. It is a love it or hate it flavor. 
There is not a single group of 100 people who will like red velvet with caramel filling. While you are young, you will be excused from such an inexperienced
choice, I am a professional and it is my job to try to politely steer you in the right direction. Meaning: many people are going to hate your cake, 
and i am going to get the blame for it. My business has been built on word of mouth and I am not so hard up for cash that I will ruin my reputation.

(the NEXT day, 5 days before the wedding)

Ok. Then I will like to have my deposit back.

The deposit is non refundable. It is to hold your date.

 
Im not the one cancelling this. You are because you refuse to make the cake that I asked for.

Which I asked for on october 23rd and and you never mentioned anything then.

When you said "Red velvet with caramel" That is ALL you wrote, so I wasnt even sure what you meant. I responded with the question, "for the whole cake?" In which you took 2 days to respond "What we talked about the first time when we met sounds good! Hays sorry to make it so complicated!" Which left me even more confused. Then I asked," Do you want to sit down and discuss flavor combos again when you pay your balance? Your balance of $245.50 is due no later than November 3. I would have some time on Sunday, or Wednesday. Let me know ;-)"

I asked for red velvet and caramel icing with buttercream icing. You agreed to make this cake. We dont have to tell anybody who made the cake if you are not comfortable with that. You agreed yo the cake and askr for and excepted my deposit. And if you feel comfortable with keeping my money after you have deceived me. Then you have yo live withthat. And let God be your judge.

If you review, you sent the deposit that night after the consultation. You still hadn't picked flavors, since you needed to talk to your parents. That was 2 months ago. I have tried multiple times to get the flavors. And, you knew the balance was due no later than Nov 3. You haven't paid, so it was just a courtesy on my part that I was even willing to still do it. 

You wouldnt message me back!!!!

Yes I did. You said yourself that your email was messed up. I cannot control that.

While you are the bride and it is "your day" you are still expected to be a gracious hostess to your guests who make a time and money investment to share it.  
If you want a baker who will do anything for a buck, and doesn't offer a suggestion when you are committing reception suicide, then do so. 
Per our discussion, at the condultation, the deposit is non-refundable.
 

You were very deceitful for taking my money and telling me you would do a cake that I wanted. And then to keep my deposit. I think you are overstepping y
our bounds on telling me how to be a good hostess. I think I was raised properly on how to do that thank you very much. So no. If you cant do what I want then im sorry, honey. 

I'm not "bound", because I'm not The Help. I think it would be irresponsible for me not to point out that you are the hostess of your first party as a married couple, and you should try to make your guests happy:-) I was assisting you make a decision. Your cake was supposed to be paid for last week. You broke the contract. Read the contract and the FAQs, sweetie.

No, you were being overbearing and not caring about what I want when im paying for it and caring more for your reputation. 

You have several discounts, and free delivery. You didn't get back with me for over a month. You said you would take white with strawberry, the day of your deadline.
All cakes must be finalized before 2 weeks out from the wedding. Read the FAQS. 

I only said that because you made it sound like we had to have 3 different flavors.  And we dont want 3 different flavors.

I was very lenient with even discussing it with you after you didn't make your final payment. And you said on the second "We want red velvet and carmel and white with strawberry. I know that's only two... " I am still willing to do that cake.

And for the record you never messaged me back the last time, the day before the payment was due. I have no problems with my email. 

So I was trying to get money to you. I worried about it and tried funding.g your info everywhere for a week!

I have a website, Facebook, and there is google, so it is not hard to find. You messaged me on the last day. If you are to grow up, I cannot be your babysitter and hold your hand for you to make your payments and get it together before your deadline. Welcome to life. 

Ok. Im not going to stoop low anymore to argue with you. If you feel its ok to keep my deposit knowing what you know and refusing to make the cake I have

told you about for a month, then let God mr your judge. I no longer need your "professional services" or "expertise".
I would say thank you for your time, but I would be lying. And I dont lie., honey.
Thank you.

Have fun finding a last minute cake, your highness. 
And using salvation as a weapon is really unbecoming, princess. 

AWow, what a train wreck...on both sides of the conversation. Yes, the customer was being difficult, but the string of text messages should have been cut off early on in favor of a phone call, with more of an effort to maintain professionalism on your side.

Simply telling the customer that you do not offer that flavor combination as a choice for a whole cake would have probably been a better way to go.

Wrong in so many ways, and on all sides.

Why do certain people always be compelled to tell you that G-d is watching and will judge you - but they only say that when they don't get what they want?

I googled red velvet with caramel and there were 7 or 8 on the first page. I think the flavors are perfectly harmonious. It's just a buttermilk cake with a teensy bit of chocolate what's not to pair with caramel?

Aside from her being late paying it seems as if this young lady did not meet your expectation for some reason and it became very personal rather than business. I would not call people names even if they never paid for their cake. If I was venting to my family privately sure I'd pour it on but not professionally call someone names especially in writing.

I am shocked at how this played out. Her being late with the money is one thing and a big big thing. But somewhere you said you wanted to 'politely steer her in the right direction'...this completely misses the mark in my opinion. You went way beyond offering a flavor suggestion.

Now I understand you have your own business and you can do what you want I'm not standing in your way. I think you will far and away loose more business over this incident than any amount of red vevet caramel cake ever could.

I'm very curious as to why you asked for opinions stating, "don't hold back". These are mine as gently as I can say it.

Annabakescakes-You sound like a horrible person to deal with.

Annabakes, I enjoy reading your comments in the forums and I can see that you truly are a professional and produce cakes which would make anyone proud.  Since you asked for opinions, I'll oblige.  Keep in mind that this is just my opinion and I tend to be very direct these days. 

First and foremost, the bride did NOT finish paying for the cake on time and that should have ended the entire matter right then and there.

Her choice of flavors was exactly that - her choice.  After you had advised her against it and she still insisted, you should have made it as requested.  Her refusal to accept your advice on the flavor combination was in no way an attack on your business or your knowledge and expertise. It was not your place to counsel her on being a good hostess - that's for her mother to do.

I was very disappointed to read the emails that followed.  The comments on her side were understandable, considering that 1) she's very young and 2) she's going through one of the most stressful events of her life to this point.  Your comments, on the other hand, very quickly became petty and snotty - which is sad considering that 1) you're older and wiser and 2) you're a professional conducting your business. 

JMO

Yes it's your business and you can run it as you please.... but from that conversation you posted it looks like that will be straight into the ground!  That read more like a big fight between friends of family and NOT a business/customer at ALL!  I can see s phone conversation accidentally getting heated like that, but there's really no excuse when sending typed messages that you can walk away from, re-read, and think through beofre hitting send.

To answer the main question, yes you should have just given her RV/caramel for the whole cake.  It will taste good and you can't second guess everyone's taste for them.  She did also state that she's having a dessert buffet so while the RV/caramel may be the only cake, it's not the only dessert choice.  Most of my brides like several flavors and I do steer most of them in that direction.  But if they choose to go with just one, that's just easier for me!

For real? Did that really happen?

A

ALol! While I certainly think I could have handled it a bit better, I wonder if anyone missed the part where she kept calling me honey before I "name called" her calling her other terms of endearment?

And truth be told, it was the whole God is your judge, God is watching, holier than thou attitude that really chapped me. And saying I was deceitful because I took her money but didn't make the cake she wanted... When she knew she had to get back with me, didn't, sent confusing and stupid emails, didn't answer her phone, didnt reply to emails, didn't finalize her cake in a timely manner, text at 11:30 at night, didnt pay.... And they were just stupid at their tasting... Eating filling with the little knife, rather than putting it on the cake provided, eating with their fingers and using my tablecloth as a napkin. (There were forks, and napkins and plates and all my tastings are the same, and no one else had a problem) Plus, her cake was super ugly. The flower covered cake that is popular, but in orangy red, salmon, and a bright blue.

And I spoke to a lady who gets cakes from me who saw her Facebook post where she *****ed about me and said she needed a decorator, and it was 2 days before she cancelled her order, but she made up all kinds of things that she said I told her, none of them true., as far as scheduling, and payments, and such.

And her dessert buffet wasn't a dessert buffet, it was candy.

ABTW, I have had 2 cakes from the same group of people who are friends with her, who deal with her, since she cancelled.

A

"Many people feel very strongly about red velvet. Like it belongs with cream cheese or that they don't like it at all. It is a love it or hate it flavor. There is not a single group of 100 people who will like red velvet with caramel filling. While you are young, you will be excused from such an inexperienced choice, I am a professional and it is my job to try to politely steer you in the right direction. Meaning: many people are going to hate your cake, and i am going to get the blame for it. My business has been built on word of mouth and I am not so hard up for cash that I will ruin my reputation."

And even before that, if a customer says "Obviously we are misunderstanding eachother." that is a huge red flag to stop texting and get on the phone for a real-time conversation.

AI called her before I texted to her that we are misunderstanding eachother, and she didn't answer. That is when I text that, and she text it back.

If you don't want to offer certain flavours, then don't even discuss such orders.  You don't have to give any reason. You can say "only natural flavours and colours used" as long as that is true.  You can steer your menu to any limitations you please.  You have every right to make only kosher  or only vegan  or only gluten-free or whatever other exclusive variety of cakes you wish.  You may also refuse such special orders.

But anybody who accepts a deposit for "custom decorated red velvet cake with caramel filling" forms a contract to provide same, subject to final payment terms.  At that point your discretion ceases to exist.  If you are a novice baker, you legally incur the obligation to bake practise cakes at YOUR cost until you can produce a decent cake for the customer.

And a business owner should not need to be told that.

Just think how YOU would react if you ordered an all-vanilla ice cream cake and found it to be chocolate caramel on the inside...and then were told you couldn't get a refund because the ice cream shop didn't like vanilla.  Cakes are FOOD and therefore the federal laws applicable to food sales kick in, regardless of what your state/province  says.  

ADid anyone see that at the beginning of the post where I put our messages, that I said it got pretty stupid? I do realize that! I think the personal attacks on me are hilarious, but I thought I'd point that back out ;-)

A

Wow!  Just WOW!

I am appalled. I find it somewhat ironic that you are focused on the manners of your client while completely disregarding your own.

You are absolutely correct.  YOU own your bakery.  You get to decide where you draw the line.  Personally, I don't like coconut.  I do not offer that flavor.  You also get to decide not to create "ugly" designs. I do think it is more professional to politely steer someone in another direction.  Telling them that is what you are doing is not polite or professional.  

The tone you used here in the forum was a bit snotty.  Perhaps you didn't mean to be.  The way you spoke to your client was condescending and rude.  There is a gentle way of resolving issues and this was not one of them.

In my opinion, you are wrong. Had you cancelled her for lack of payment, you would have been well within your rights.  According to your own statements, you waived that right.  You were willing to accept payment but not the flavors you dislike.  Does your contract provide that type of creative license?  I doubt it.

Part of being in this particular industry is understanding and placating clients.  You were rude and disrespectful.  More importantly, you are the one that breached this contract.  I would not be surprised if they sue you.  They would have a compelling argument.