Originally Posted by scp1127
If you study sugar, as I do, you will find that it is incredibly hard to get sugar at that temp to lose heat. I do about 30% of my business in wholesale museum work exactly duplicating historic recipes, some 3000 years old. I have extensively studied sugar, its properties, and I have burned myself so many times that I'm sure that alone has given me expert status.
Frankly I have no idea why how many times you have burned yourself with sugar makes you any kind of expert on the question of food pathogens in eggs white. As someone who values research you might want to consider what those involved in the area of food science have to say on the subject.
Before going on I acknowledge that you get your information from "official" cites have to say--but official cites have never been wrong before right? Standards have never been changed? Oversight agencies have never been lobbied by industries to produce favorable standards and regulations? I'll take the science over the regulatory schemes that can be the result of any number of non-food safety interests.
Here is what one of the seminal texts on food science and molecular gastronomy has to say on the subject:
Harold McGee, On Food and Cooking: The Science and lore of the Kitchen
, Scriber: 2004, p. 108.
There are two basic kinds of cooked meringues. The first (Italian) is the syrup-cooked meringue. Sugar is boiled separately with some water to 240 or 250 degrees F . . . the whites are whipped to stiff peaks and the syrup is then streamed and beaten into the whites. . . . Because much of the syrups heat is lost to the bowl, whisk, and air, the foam mass normally gets no hotter than 130 or 135 degrees F which is insufficient to kill salmonella.
Note there is an explanation of the process based on his study of food science. It is not just a claim. Interesting that this is consistent with the results I got yesterday. Note I stated the meringue never got above 140. And just to address your instaread thermometer claim, I used what is widely recognized as the premier instaread on the market--a Themapen. And yest it was calibrated---so much for that.
Paula Figoni in How Baking Works: Exploring the Fundamentals of Food Science
in discussing the making of Swiss and Italian Meringue warns individuals because of the dangers of salmonella to omit evaluations of taste and mouthfeel when using unpasteurized eggs. Again someone who is concerned with food science who notes the dangers of IM preparation when instructing others how to make them.
Here is the reference for you.
Paula Figoni, How Baking Works: Exploring the Fundamentals of Food Science
, Wiley: 2010, p. 293
Finally Glenn Rinsky and Laura Rinsky, The Pastry Chefs Companion: A Comprehensive Resource Guide for the Baking
, when discussing meringues notes to guard against salmonella use pasteurized white is the meringue will not be baked. When discussing IMs note that the whipping of the whites while the sugar is being poured prevents the whites from cooking. In other words the whites are only partially cooked.
Granted not the best source but as good as the others who claim it is safe without offering a reason. And does offer an explanation of the process that is consistent with what the claims by those who study the science.
Here is the reference:
Glenn Rinsky and Laura Rinsky, The Pastry Chefs Companion: A Comprehensive Resource Guide for the Baking
, Wiley: p. 180.
What also noteworthy is there is not a single food scientist that claims salmonella is rendered inactive by the light cooking of whites in the making of IMs. Oh there are plenty of pastry types and cookbooks that state the eggs will e cooked however this has already been address by posts on SMs--the information is incorrect. Why is it incorrect, because the science not what a syrup does sitting in a hot pot on the stove, or poured onto a table, or that no one has gotten sick when they make it. And isn't it curious that they offer no justification to support the claim--they simply reiterate it without a scintilla of evidence or explanation to support the claim.
All of this is consistent with the two Browns. I mentioned them because you use Warren's recipe. And his statement is don't worry because there is little risk. His statement about his buttercream is consistent with the science. It is not absolutely safe. Which is also consistent with Alton's episode which you claim to use as a reference. Your reference states it is not safe. And since he is obsessive about food safety and food science is his thing, his claims that IM is not completely safe should be heeded. Again his statement is consistent with the science. You might be on the right side of the regulations but are on the wrong side of the science.