Cottage Food Law Questions And Concerns.

Business By cakelady2266 Updated 29 Apr 2012 , 7:39pm by cakelady2266

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ncsmorris Posted 18 Apr 2012 , 9:53pm
post #31 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsmorris

It's true that there aren't random inspections (how would they even know if I'm home? I don't have business hours).


FYI, when you operate out of a rented kitchen with on storefront you probably won't have to deal with random inspections. In Santa Clara County the inspector always contacted us ahead of time to set up an appointment for the inspection so we would be there. Things might be different in other areas or if you have a retail shop with regular posted hours.




True. I was thinking of a store front; I neglected commercial kitchens. The Dept of Agriculture CAN call me at any time to schedule, though she told me they tend to focus more on larger production facilities (more production = more potential people to be harmed by unsafe practices).

Oh also (at least here) no indoor pets are allowed so that interferes with home life quite a bit for some people.

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cakelady2266 Posted 19 Apr 2012 , 4:24am
post #32 of 116

Well there I have it, I got the facts about the issue. Can't say I understand it or agree with it. But oh well.

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MimiFix Posted 19 Apr 2012 , 12:38pm
post #33 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgifford

But some of us are going to obey the law even if no one comes around to check up on us. Call me a prude, but there are some things you just don't do.



Such as driving a car without a license because no one stops you at the corner. Or robbing a bank because there's no cop posted at the door. Or stealing a pair of pants because there's no salesclerk within view.

Thank you, jgifford.

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smbegg Posted 19 Apr 2012 , 1:24pm
post #34 of 116

Seems the main issue is that **SOME** Commercial kitchen owners **ASSUME** that ALL home bakers, including legal ones under CFL are all a bunch of rednecks who have no clue as to how to produce food safely. This is where this issue ALWAYS gets nasty. Please use caution when mass generalizing on the topic as this is not true. I have worked in commercial kitchens that are inspected yet run filthy food productions.

As I stated, I am a legal business under the CFL in Texas. I am a clean worker. I know how to maintain my kitchen. I also made precautions to keep my business clean and healthy. I converted a bedroom into a bakery room. This keeps all pets, kids, and daily life contaminates out of my food. I only bake in the oven and wash dishes in my kitchen. I have my own refrigerator and storage in my baking room. Now that is not to say that the rest of my house may be a mess (who's isn't, especially when you have 3 orders in a weekend), but my business is it's own entity.

I also follow the law and do not produce potentially hazardous foods. And yes, that means that I took items off my offerings so as to follow the law.

So unless you have seen my production, please do not presume that I am unclean and uneducated in how to run my business. Anyway, does anyone actually have any statistics to stand by these accusations of uncleanliness in home bakeries? Please put some facts to the accusations flying around.

And I understand that commercial bakeries have to jump through lots of hoops to become legal. But that is not my problem. That was your CHOICE. I have followed the law and deserve to be treated with respect (which I AM by my customers) by fellow bakers. I may not have your skill level, but I love what I do and have a loyal customer base who know I produce quality cakes that both look and taste good.

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kelleym Posted 19 Apr 2012 , 1:39pm
post #35 of 116

The Texas law was written with the presumption that cottage food operators are "good actors" who want to do the right thing. And from my experience this is largely true.

People who don't want to follow the law were likely operating from home illegally before the passage of SB 81, or are determined to operate however they want no matter what the law says. You can't write laws for lawbreakers.

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cakelady2266 Posted 19 Apr 2012 , 10:55pm
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smbegg...I'm not making assumptions about anyone's knowledge concerning health codes or skill levels as bakers/decorators. I don't understand how all of a sudden it's okay for some bakers to sell food products from their homes especially without health department inspections. While those of use with inspected kitchens will still be under close scrutiny from state and local health departments. Seems like a double standard to me.

As for some commercial kitchens being nasty, well I've been in some that I don't know how in the world they were allowed to operate. But that having been said those commercial kitchens prepared and cooked real food, which if not handled, prepared and cooked properly can and will sicken and/or kill people. Bakeries on the other hand tend to just be more messy than disease prone. It is kinda hard to kill somebody with a cake I guess.

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kelleym Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 12:26am
post #37 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

smbegg...I'm not making assumptions about anyone's knowledge concerning health codes or skill levels as bakers/decorators. I don't understand how all of a sudden it's okay for some bakers to sell food products from their homes especially without health department inspections. While those of use with inspected kitchens will still be under close scrutiny from state and local health departments. Seems like a double standard to me.
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Cakelady2266, I've devoted the last 3 years of my life to this cause, and I'm very passionate about it, so I'm going to speak passionately. Please forgive me in advance.

Tonight I was re-reading Joel Salatin's "Everything I Want To Do Is Illegal" and happened across this passage, which seems particularly apropos to your question:

Quote:
Quote:

"We believe that requiring $500,000 processing facilities for a farmer to be able to sell one T-bone steak to a neighbor creates price discrimination against small producers and consumers who want to patronize him. With such large overheads, not only do many would-be solutions-based entrepreneurs never start, but those who do must charge exorbitant prices to their customers in order to recoup the inordinately astronomical facility overhead costs. Critics must argue that Farmer Brown processing one T-bone steak is equivalent to Con-Agra processing 5,000 animals per day."




Substitute "cake" for "steak" and "kitchen" for "processing facility" and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. Why is the barrier of entry so high for something as innocuous as selling cakes and cookies? These are items which are scientifically classified as non-potentially hazardous and have an extremely low chance of making people sick. Selling one cake (steak) to a neighbor is not the same as selling 50 cakes a week. Requiring Americans to invest $20,000 or more in a commercial kitchen, or pay an exorbitant amount of hourly or monthly commercial kitchen rent in order to sell ONE cake, basically excludes small producers from business. It prevents entrepreneurship.

This is not happening "all of a sudden", as you said above, although due to the downturn in the economy, several states have taken steps to encourage jobs and local economies. The local food movement is also growing - people like to know who made their food, where it was made, and how it was made. Many states have had these cottage food laws on the books for many years. Today's "food safety"(* see bottom) laws came around largely due to the public uproar over Upton Sinclair's 1906 book, "The Jungle", which depicted horrible and disgusting conditions in a meat plant -- not home kitchens. Before that, cooking and baking at home was normal. Yes, normal. People baked cakes and bread and cookies and sold them in their local communities, and this was normal. Texas' own Mrs. Baird of Mrs. Baird's Bread began selling homemade bread after she was widowed, and her sons would make deliveries in horse-drawn carriages. She became so successful that she moved to commercial facilities. When she died in 1961, the Texas Senate passed a resolution in her memory and declared Ninnie Baird "a living example for mothers, wives, business executives, Christians and good people the world over."

Most cottage food laws are restricted to non-potentially hazardous food. Many have other restrictions, such as income caps. In Texas, food may only be sold at the producer's home, which is quite limiting for some. Since we are limited in what we can sell, where we can sell, and how much we can make, I do not see how this is a "double standard".

Home kitchens aren't set up for production. You can only do so much before you burn out, or have to move up to a commercial facility, where you would, in return for your investment, have unlimited production capacity and no limits on what, where, and how much you sell.

I read stories every day of people whose lives were transformed for the better by the passage of Texas' law. These people, who never would have been able to build or rent a commercial facility (for a multitude of reasons) have a sense of pride and ownership in contributing to their household's finances while being in charge of their own small-scale business. It's a beautiful thing, it truly is.

Home bakers have been around since ovens were invented. Cottage food laws don't create home bakers, they just bring them out of the shadows.

* "Food Safety" needs to be put in quotation marks, because it's pretty obvious to anyone who's really paying attention that modern "food safety" laws exist to protect the pocketbooks of Big Agribusiness and factory farms. If you've actually read about pink slime you know that we're getting pretty close to being fed government-approved Soylent Green.

Thank you for bearing with me. icon_smile.gif

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jason_kraft Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 12:48am
post #38 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

I don't understand how all of a sudden it's okay for some bakers to sell food products from their homes especially without health department inspections. While those of use with inspected kitchens will still be under close scrutiny from state and local health departments. Seems like a double standard to me.



I think CFLs are more about correcting an oversight in food safety laws, which were established by the FDA and adopted by states as a "one size fits all" (at least for the bakery industry) solution without really considering that low volume, low risk suppliers don't need the same amount of oversight as a high volume operation that works with potentially hazardous ingredients.

Low volume home bakers really should have been allowed to legally sell their products with minimal oversight (subject to some restrictions) all along.

I agree that it's a double standard if you compare a CFL state with a neighboring non-CFL state, but it's only a matter of time before either all states pass CFLs or the FDA updates federal law to codify a CFL-type exemption.

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cakelady2266 Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 4:16am
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CFL food bakers and sellers wouldn't been as regulated and overseen as inspected bakers. But CFL can bake and sell for the most part like inspected bakers therefore creating a "double standard" because inspected bakers are keeping up to code and jumping through hoops. If baking and selling non inspected is allowed for some why not all. That is what I consider a double standard.

And since there is no inspections for CFL bakers, then issues like... proper time and temperature control, cross contact, proper hygiene, supply storage and placement of chemicals, sewage backup into sinks, etc..can be a health issue. I personally don't think it is okay for a home bakers cat to vomit in the kitchen during a meeting with clients sitting at the kitchen table.

How many of you would eat at a restaurant that was not inspected by the health department? How many of you would eat at a restaurant that had a low health score? Even if it was a donut shop? Think about it?

I fully understand that baking and selling has been around since the dawn of man. Having taken several required food handler safety courses, Hell no I wouldn't buy or eat food of any kind that came from non inspected facilities. And I grew up on a farm.

My shop isn't a storefront bakery but it is considered a commercial kitchen, and it's in my front yard. Becoming legal wasn't just a "choice" for me, it was the only option. After several years of baking in a caterer friends kitchen it became absolutely necessary to have my own space. When I built my shop 14 years ago it was illegal to sell food products from a home kitchen, so I followed the law. So when potential customers would go to home based bakers that sold their products cheaper to stay under the health departments radar, it was something us licensed bakers had to grin and bear. But now it's okay to be an uninspected home baker because the state legislature passed the bill.

I assume the CFL works on the "honor system" so if no one (health agency) is overseeing production to know if things are up to par, then is there no one keeping up with the "income cap" part?

Still passionate AND jumping through hoops.

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jason_kraft Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 4:32am
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It is your prerogative to avoid foods from uninspected CFL kitchens, and this information is available to potential buyers since all CFLs require labeling that indicates the food was made in an uninspected kitchen. What buyers decide to do with that information is up to them.

I can see where you're coming from, but investing in your own commercial kitchen was not a waste of money, it is a competitive advantage you have over CFL bakers based on the restrictions in your state. You would be better off putting your efforts into developing new marketing strategies that press these advantages instead of complaining about it.

And it doesn't help anyone to imply that uninspected kitchens are automatically less sanitary than inspected kitchens, either type of kitchen can run the gamut in cleanliness from pristine to disgusting regardless of oversight.

BTW you are certainly free to start your own CFL business in your home kitchen if you want to bake without inspections.

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cakelady2266 Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 4:49am
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Jason...I'm not complaining about market strategies or lack of work. I have both strategies and plenty of work. I think fairness to all is my issue. And as I recall you and I had a little debate last year about home bakers underselling and costing licensed bakeries income. You sang a different song then.

Inspections aren't a big whoop for me although they do make my butt draw up in a knot. Alabama health inspectors do not schedule inspections like other states, it's a surprise. But with 14 years of 98's and 99's I'm not doing bad. And it would be utter insanity to close my shop that I help to build with my own hands and work out of my home kitchen. Which is generally a wreck because I'm always working in my licensed kitchen.

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jason_kraft Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 5:27am
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Home bakers underselling bakers with commercial kitchens/storefronts has nothing to do with CFLs or inspections. Undercutting can happen with or without a CFL in the state (the only difference is without a CFL they can be shut down, but more will appear in their place).

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vgcea Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 10:26am
post #43 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

Jason...I'm not complaining about market strategies or lack of work. I have both strategies and plenty of work. I think fairness to all is my issue. And as I recall you and I had a little debate last year about home bakers underselling and costing licensed bakeries income. You sang a different song then.

Inspections aren't a big whoop for me although they do make my butt draw up in a knot. Alabama health inspectors do not schedule inspections like other states, it's a surprise. But with 14 years of 98's and 99's I'm not doing bad. And it would be utter insanity to close my shop that I help to build with my own hands and work out of my home kitchen. Which is generally a wreck because I'm always working in my licensed kitchen.




I think it's pretty fair. All CFL establishments in each state function under the same laws, while commercial food establishments function under their own laws. A home bakery and a commercial bakery are not the same thing, and thus should not function under the same laws. To make them jump the same hoops? Now that would be unfair.

I would love to add cream cheese (among other things) to my menu, I have just as much knowledge of time and temperature control as the next commercial baker, I also have 2 college degrees in science and healthcare that I can argue set me apart from the commercial baker who just has servsafe under his/her belt. But can I offer cream cheese? NO. NOT FAIR! This fair-not fair argument can go on for days. We're in a way comparing apples and oranges.

The great thing about the US of A is that it's a free country. You think CFLs have it better? Jump on the wagon, there's always room for one more. Whether commercial bakeries like it or not though, this trend is moving forward.

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ChristineCMC Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 11:02am
post #44 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

. I personally don't think it is okay for a home bakers cat to vomit in the kitchen during a meeting with clients sitting at the kitchen table.




When I first read this, I had two thoughts - Are you kidding? And secondly, I would imagine if a customer is meeting with a CFL and this happens; they are more likely to leave without placing an order. And if they do place an order chances are they don't care that your inspected kitchen passes inspections with flying colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

.
How many of you would eat at a restaurant that was not inspected by the health department? How many of you would eat at a restaurant that had a low health score? Even if it was a donut shop? Think about it?

I fully understand that baking and selling has been around since the dawn of man. Having taken several required food handler safety courses, Hell no I wouldn't buy or eat food of any kind that came from non inspected facilities. And I grew up on a farm.
.




I may not go to an uninspected restaurant to eat, but many times I will go to my uninspected friends home to eat. Can't really recall ever getting sick from it. As for CFL's, most would operate this same way - selling to people they know or friends of friends. Yes, there will be some CFL's that go a little more than that, but they are regulated and also restricted how much they can bake out of their home kitchen.

Botttom line is that it will ultimately be up to the consumer where they would like to purchase their baked goods from. Some will not want to go to a CFL and that will give you an advantage. Some will be more than happy to be able to buy a cake from their friend.

As I said before there really is enough cake to go around and I don't think there is need to feel superior because you have a commercial kitchen and assume that those that don't are making an inferior product. You may say that is not what you are doing, but you kind of are in my opinion.

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kelleym Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 12:42pm
post #45 of 116
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Quote:

So when potential customers would go to home based bakers that sold their products cheaper to stay under the health departments radar, it was something us licensed bakers had to grin and bear. But now it's okay to be an uninspected home baker because the state legislature passed the bill.



I'm sorry, I don't understand this. You were fine with illegal competition, but not legal? As I said before, the only thing the cottage food law is going to do is bring your competition out into the open.

You built your commercial kitchen because it was the only option, I understand that. You had no cottage food law at that time. But because you have an established business in a commercial kitchen, you have considerable advantages over home bakers, both legal and illegal.

It disturbs me that you keep returning to hyperbolic, hypothetical "what-if" gross-out situations about home bakers. I could come up with some pretty gross "what-ifs" about commercial kitchens, too. Please include some data about sicknesses that originate from home-baked food vs. commercially prepared food. When you do find this data, you will find that 75% of all food borne illness originates from commercially prepared food.

Commercial kitchens in Texas are inspected once a year (or every two years... or in some cities in Texas, less than that). My kitchen is inspected every day, by me. I have worked in restaurants since I was 16, and have taken food handler's training at least 3 times that I can recall. My 3 kids are still alive, one of them grew up tall and strong and is in the Navy right now. Despite what the Texas health departments would like us to think, there is no epidemic of sicknesses caused by home prepared food, and even the health departments kicking and screaming the loudest against our new law are grudgingly forced to admit that they haven't received a single complaint.

As Jason said so well, this is really about righting a wrong. It should never have been illegal in the first place to sell these types of homemade foods. I hope you can find a way to make peace with the law if it passes in Alabama.

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AnnieCahill Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 1:09pm
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This is just an assumption here, but it sounds to me like you're upset because you have spent the time and money to establish a commercial operation and now you realize you could have done a similar thing from your home under a CFL. But Jason and others are right-you have a competitive advantage. You can offer products that CFL bakers can't.

Also, most CFLs have stipulations about pets. Where I live in VA, you can have pets but your kitchen needs to have a latched door to keep them out. It wasn't that way in the past (previously you just had to lock them up), but they changed the way they interpreted the law so now you need a door.

Don't assume that everyone who operates a home business under a CFL is dirty or has cats barfing everywhere. All it takes is one person to complain and that could ruin a business. I am sure most people who run businesses under a CFL are not stupid and treat their businesses just as if they ran a commercial kitchen. I am that way, even though I don't have a business. Some people may not be as clean but it will definitely catch up to them in some way.

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MimiFix Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 1:31pm
post #47 of 116

Many people have a hard time accepting that any other form of business (that is not their kind of business) is legitimate. I think it's just human nature that we act like this. For example:

Last year a new CC member came here asking all about how to start a home-based baking business. After receiving advice from numerous members, she eventually decided it wouldn't work for her types of products and rented a commercial kitchen.

Fast forward a year. Not too long ago there was a similar thread started by someone asking about how they, too, can start a home-based baking business. This other member chimed in that home-based businesses are unfair to those who have "real" businesses. It occurred to me that I could point out the discrepancy in her thinking, but didn't want to start a little drama because I understood her motivation.

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smbegg Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 6:03pm
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Since I am the one doing it, I know that my facilities are sanitized everytime I use them because I do it myself. I don't have cats BARFING in my kitchen (at bit dramatic don't you think?).

Go figure that someone who bakes from their home knows to wash their hands, not lick the spoon, put my hair up and even wear gloves!

I wonder what percentage of the bakers here actually just one day opened up a shop without first baking at home? Probably very few if any did.

I know that it is frustrating to jump through the hoops required to open a commercial kitchen and keep it running. That is why I never did it because I did not have the financing to do it. So I kept waiting and when the CFL came through, I finally got to pursue my dream. The only reason I posted in this topic was that as a CFL, I feel that I need to defend my business. I work very hard to keep good standards.

I would again ask as I and KelleyM both have to find proof on CFL's causing food borne illnesses before throwing around accusation. If there is actual evidence of this, that is one thing but I think that you would be hard pressed to find any.

And not all CFL's undercharge. I am competitive with my fellow bakeries in the area and my work speaks for itself. I have people that seek me out and only purchase cakes from me. I am not making anyone sick, providing a quality product, all the while providing for my family and I will not apologize for the fact that I waited for my state to create a CFL.

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PieceofCakeAZ Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 6:17pm
post #49 of 116

Since this one got a little off track, I will go back and answer your question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266


How has this law affected established, permitted, licensed bakers in states where it has been passed?




It has affected us a little. Our direct business is down a couple of percent.

I honestly expected it to be more dramatic. Our CFL is wide open, no inspections, you can run a pet sitting business and a cake business in your house of you want. Pass a food handlers test, give somebody a piece of paper with the ingredients on it and you are good to go

When it started, In my head I was like, if a CFL baker averages 1 cake per week and 1000 of them register, that's 52,000 cakes a year, most of which we will likely never even get calls about since the word of mouth is so strong and at that point everyone would know someone with a cake business. I mean, how could that not affect revenue? I am sure the impact on our direct business will grow since the AZ CFL program is so new and more legal competitors are opening every day.

What I did not expect to happen, was that our indirect business would get a boost. By indirect business I mean that we work with a number of reception sites and provide wedding cakes in the all inclusive wedding packages that they offer to their couples. As it turns out, many reception sites are scared of including non inspected companies in their wedding cake packages, some are scared of even letting non inspected companies deliver cakes at their facilities. (In the words of one "If they don't have insurance, who do you think a guest is going to sue if they get sick, US").

Some reception sites locally have seen the % of ugly and unstable cakes increase and at the same time they get 2-3 companies a week dropping off a tasting cake and introducing their new company and they are making a cause and effect connection between the two. To be clear, I am not saying that all CFL bakers make ugly and unstable cakes, there are tons of them that do amazing work. But when 1000 enter the market all at once, even if 65% of them are better than Buddy or Duff, there's 350 of them that should have practiced a couple of years before selling publicly, and those are the ones that they remember. If you see 50 cakes and 2 of them falls over, those 2 are going to stick in your mind.

The net effect for us is that in the last few months we have new deals in place with some really awesome facilities and our overall business is up.

We are considering moving locations and adding some retail business to compensate for the direct business loss but that won't be until our lease is up next year, and we will likely have a better picture of the CFL impact at that point.

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kelleym Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 6:25pm
post #50 of 116

PieceofCakeAZ, that is very interesting, thank you for your perspective.

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cakelady2266 Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 6:55pm
post #51 of 116

Let me just clear up any confusion there may be. I never said home bakers (CFL or otherwise) were nasty, lazy, dumb or doing anything dangerous or unholy. I also never said I was opposed to it. I was the one who was dumb and asked a question. In my defense I also stated in the original post that I was asking a dumb question and I wasn't trying to start a war, you can go back and see. A simple "CFL bakers can't bake and sell the same things commercial bakers sell and because of that they won't be inspected regularly by the health department, there are financial caps and other restrictions" answer from someone in the beginning would have sufficed. But that's not the CC style is it, not that I should expect any different. But since my question and lack of knowledge was so offensive to some I went from a person asking a dumb question to an accusation slinging, rumor mongering, superior bitch with anger and jealousy issues. How far off the mark am I now? Oh no another dumb question.

ChristineCMC I'm not singling you out but I want to address the questions that you ask in your post

No I am not kidding about the cat. The bride and the MOB told me all about it when they booked me to do the cakes.

Yes I also eat at friends and families homes, eat food that they bring to functions. But no to be perfectly honest if their home kitchens were truly nasty (not just the usual mess like most of us) I wouldn't want to eat their cooking even if they were family or friends. I had some friends who let their cats get on kitchen table and eat during a meal. They weren't selling food to me or anybody mind you, but I didn't want the cat eating out of my plate either. That has nothing to do with CFL that is just a story I'm sharing about my friend.

And as far as trying to sound superior well that truly is a first. I have more than tried to see all sides of most arguments on this website as long as I've been a member. I had tried to get others to look at a conflict or issue from the other persons side. On the issue of legal vs non legal, scratch vs. mix, this vs. that, I've never said or thought for that matter that I was better or more knowledgeable than anybody.

And for the record my original thoughts and questions on the subject of the CFL was to find out more about it, to understand how it works, to find out if passing a CFL meant no more food safety inspections for small bakery type shops that weren't preparing potential hazardous foods. By hazardous I mean meat, poultry, seafood, like a full service restaurant would prepare. At no point did I infer, imply or outright say I wanted to close my shop and bake out of my home so I would no longer be inspected.

Illegal competition could be warned, fined or shut down by the health department if they were caught, turned in or had a health complaint. Illegal competition rarely advertised with websites, Facebook pages, phone books, bridal shows, print publications etc... Some venues require proof of inspection. licensing, and insurance to be able to deliver and set up there. But from the outside looking in it looks like CFL is the same thing as state sanctioned illegal home baking.

Now if you would be ever so kind as to humor me if you will and try to understand this from what I - me- cakelady 2266 thought the CFL actually meant. I was under the impression that CFL kitchen would have an initial health department inspection and maybe yearly inspections. I thought CFL bakers might have to take some safety training classes. But as I have read in this thread that was not always the case.

So to this end, I am fully at peace. I don't care what the state of Alabama does with the CFL. If it's good for folks and the economy, hell I say go for it. There is enough cake to go around. So to those who have been so offend by me and my dumb question, feel free to put my name on your ignore list.

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jason_kraft Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 7:12pm
post #52 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by PieceofCakeAZ

As it turns out, many reception sites are scared of including non inspected companies in their wedding cake packages, some are scared of even letting non inspected companies deliver cakes at their facilities. (In the words of one "If they don't have insurance, who do you think a guest is going to sue if they get sick, US").



I can definitely attest to this, even in a non-CFL state...many of the high-end venues we've delivered to in California (and even some wedding planners) ask for proof of liability insurance and our license number. While it's true that legal home bakers can still get liability insurance, it is within the rights of the venue to only allow food to be brought in that was made in a licensed and inspected kitchen. Proactively meeting with local venues and discussing this issue is one way of pressing your advantage over CFL bakers.

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ChristineCMC Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 7:29pm
post #53 of 116

That is truly disgusting what happened with the cat, but obviously it did cost her the sale and they came to you. Smart mom and bride!

I am only a home baker and when my kids want to know why we can't have a cat, I tell them I don't want them walking all over the counters and tables. That does gross me out too.

As for CFL's, I believe it is up to each state to decide on the regulations. I am in NJ. We are still waiting for it to come out of committee, but believe me I'm sure if (when) it passes there will be a whole lot of hoops to jump through. I also think there will be limitations on offerings, how much can be sold, and a label stating that item was made in and unispected kitchen with list of ingredients. Not really sure what else,since it is still in committee and not even up for discussion yet.

I do understand where to those who invested time and lots of money into a commercial kitchen would think it's unfair. But unless a CFL passes in my state, I will not be able to what I would love to do. It's just not in the budget nor are my skills there . For me, I just want to be able to make a little money (or just support my hobby) by selling my cakes to friends. I for one have no desire to jump into a big business but have more of a hobby one making cakes at my will.

I am not attacking you. I think that this is a good discussion to have as I think it is always good to understand where everyone is coming from. This is your bread and butter and you have every right to be concerned how the laws in your state will impact your business. I do think that if your competition is the cat lady, you will do ok!

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cakelady2266 Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 7:49pm
post #54 of 116

After I went to a link I found on here about CFL in Alabama, I'm more than confused. One article stated that the CFL baking and selling that is up for vote was for selling home baked goods in a farmers market setting without HD regulations. It didn't mention direct sale out of the bakers home for events. So is there different types of CFL's or was that an outdated article.

And it's more than true that most of us started out as hobby bakers from home. I was just more than blessed to have land and a family full of carpenters, plumbers and electricians to build my shop. I would never have been able to afford to rent or lease a shop in town not in a million years. And I am grateful for the opportunity and advantage of having a business in front yard and being able to stay home with my boys. I don't begrudge anybody that in the least. I just needed clarification of the rules and how or if anything new would affect my business.

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kelleym Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 7:53pm
post #55 of 116

It IS confusing. There is an existing law in Alabama that allows Home Producers to sell at a farmers market.
http://www.fma.alabama.gov/HomeProc.aspx

And also a bill going through the State Legislature to allow sales to take place from the home.
http://alisondb.legislature.state.al.us/acas/ViewBillsStatusACASLogin.asp?BillNumber=SB352

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jason_kraft Posted 20 Apr 2012 , 7:58pm
post #56 of 116

You can read the text of the new Alabama bill here:
http://legiscan.com/gaits/view/404607

It basically expands the exemption to allow home bakers to sell either at farmer's markets or directly from their home.

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LCBakinCAKE Posted 21 Apr 2012 , 2:14am
post #57 of 116

I currently work in a commercial kitchen. I am moving to Alabama soon, and I honestly think that the CFL law is the best thing that has happened. I trained under someone for years. Now, I want to start my own business, and because of student loans from college and culinary school, it's pretty impossible to invest in my own commercial kitchen. I think everyone has the option to do whatever it is with their business. Yes, some home bakers aren't always following guidelines, but I have worked in restaurants in college, and they are just as guilty. I am proud of anyone who has the courage to open their own business where ever and how ever they do so. I trust that no matter where the cake is being made, the person making it knows the ramifications of time-sensitive products, etc. It's unfortunate when people dont care about sanitation, but I would like to think the "not caring" part would reflect in the product. Not where it is made. I understand both sides, but I think both home bakers and commercial kitchens are doing what they love and thats all that matters. Sorry for the rant haha...

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cakelady2266 Posted 21 Apr 2012 , 11:19pm
post #58 of 116

For some reason I can't get any of the links to open. I'll keep trying.

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costumeczar Posted 22 Apr 2012 , 1:08am
post #59 of 116

To answer the OP's question, having a cottage food law in VA has affected my business by saturating the market with new bakers. I know that people have been shopping for price more because there are more people who are willing to pricematch and undercut established businesses in the market. As a result, I haven't been able to raise my prices on the same schedule as I normally do.

People are also waiting until closer to their wedding dates to book their cakes, just based on the number of bakers in the area providing a buffer of sorts. You don't have to book as far in advance because there's more selection. This is a huge pain in my butt, because when wedding season hits I can usually cut back on the tasting appointments since my calendar is booked up five or six months in advance. Now that I have open slots only three or four months in advance that I need to fill, I'm having to schedule tastings on the few free weekend days that I have, so I have no days off. That does not make me happy.

There are some reception sites that do require licenses and insurance for vendors, so that's one good thing, but I don't think that they all know about the CFL.

I do use the CFL to my advantage by pointing out that I have an inspection every year and that not every baker does. Then I tell people some of the stories that the inspector tells me every year about some of the bakers he inspects, and point out that if these people weren't inspected their inspection failures would never be caught. So if you go to an uninspected business you don't know what you're getting. Having an inspection is a benefit in that way, but it doesn't make up for the economic impact of having all of these little businesses popping up all the time.

And just to point something out, there is NOT enough cake to go around for everyone. That' s nice thought but it drives me nuts when people say that. I've actually written a blog entry about that subject that's scheduled for the end of the month. To summarize, let's say that I need to do 100 weddings a year to make my income that I expect. Now let's say there are 1000 weddings a year on average, to make it simple. If there are 10 bakers in town who do weddings, and we each magically get the same amount of business, everything's cool. But now there are suddenly 20 bakers in town. Even if they only siphon off a small number of weddings, that drops me below my quota. And if there are suddenly 40 bakers in town, that siphons off even more. Plus I can't increase my prices to increase my income because the supply has risen, which drives prices down. You'd have to increase the amount of demand to stay even with the number of bakers to keep things even, and that won't happen with the number of marriages per year dropping off every year. If there was always enough to go around nobody would ever go out of business. Now I'll go move that blog post to publish on Monday, even though you've already read it, pretty much icon_rolleyes.gif

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PieceofCakeAZ Posted 22 Apr 2012 , 1:28am
post #60 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar


And just to point something out, there is NOT enough cake to go around for everyone. That' s nice thought but it drives me nuts when people say that.




Wait a second, you mean when the supply of something increases exponentially, that the demand doesn't automatically increase by the same amount, based solely on the fact that there has been an increase in the supply? icon_wink.gificon_biggrin.gif

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