Still Shaking...and Don't Know What To Do About It..

Business By Pebbles1727 Updated 19 Aug 2011 , 3:25am by DragonFly2333

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jason_kraft Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 11:36am
post #31 of 54
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Originally Posted by Pebbles1727

Yes, I have caller id on my cell, but last time I talked to MOB was over 2 weeks ago. I had her e-mail address and that's how she got the invoice and the information. She did not respond to the reminder nor the cancellation notice, which have been forwarded to her via e-mail. Do you have any suggestions of what else could I have done/should do in the future?



I typically follow up at least once by phone, since email can be unreliable and messages can be lost if they are hit by a spam filter. I also use a Google Voice number so I have a permanent record online of incoming calls and phone numbers, plus I can set the number to go automatically to voice mail after business hours.

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I do not find checks more dependable, especially when it is out of state check with less than 2 weeks before the wedding. I just had a check bounce the day before the wedding on another event.



What percentage of personal checks you've received have bounced, and how many of those were you not able to recover? It's been my experience that when people bounce checks they do so by mistake. If they are intentionally trying to get out of paying there are options to reverse or dispute payments when paying via paypal or credit card (the paypal reverse option is especially bad since it can lead to your account being frozen).

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KeltoKel Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 11:51am
post #32 of 54

yeah, big red flag that she was waiting for new credit cards to arrive in the mail. That tells you right there she didn't have the money in the first place.

Don't be so hard on yourself. I would also call the venue just to clear your reputation, but stand firm with the MOB. She knows darn well she didn't pay you, don't let her take you for a fool!

And if you want to use Paypal for your business, go ahead. I am sure you have not had any other problems in the past with it.

Good luck!

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Pebbles1727 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 2:28pm
post #33 of 54
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What percentage of personal checks you've received have bounced, and how many of those were you not able to recover?




Well, last check that bounced had to be covered via credit card payment (paypal) in order to insure wedding cake delivery. I haven't had any local customers' checks bounce yet, but based on what I heard from other vendors, when it comes to beach, on-location weddings, checks bounce quite often. The customers usually book on short notice, and many checks do not have time to clear before the event, so when they bounce is after the wedding. This is a new territory for me, do you mind sharing how to recover the cost of personal checks and fee associated with NSF after cake delivery? Specifically, as it pertains to out of state checks. I would love to hex paying fees for credit card processing, but I thought that was the safest way to get the funds than risking a bounced check and losing all of the money.
Thanks in advance, P

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jason_kraft Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 3:01pm
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pebbles1727

This is a new territory for me, do you mind sharing how to recover the cost of personal checks and fee associated with NSF after cake delivery? Specifically, as it pertains to out of state checks.



I haven't had to deal with out of state checks, but the process would be the same...simply contact the customer, tell them their check bounced, and their balance plus the NSF fee is due immediately in cash (paypal/credit card might be more appropriate with an out of state customer). I've had to do this 4 times in 700+ orders, 3 times I received payment within a week, the other time I was never able to reach the deadbeat customer.

The next step (if the order balance is significant enough) would probably be small claims court -- the ruling would be in your favor but the hard part is collecting the judgment.

In any case, even if you lose a few bad checks you will probably still come out ahead when you look at fees for accepting paypal and credit cards. If you have $40K in revenue via paypal and credit cards during the year (that's two $400 wedding cakes per week) you are paying at least $1200/year in fees. If you accept checks only and up to 3 customers a year bounce a check you cannot recover, you are still better off. And that's not even getting into the ease of reversing a transaction on paypal and credit cards (it's free) versus stopping payment on a check (which costs the customer money).

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CWR41 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 3:14pm
post #35 of 54

Simply turn bad checks over to the state prosecuting attorney office. They take this very seriously. There is NO fee, so let them handle it professionally.

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jason_kraft Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 3:36pm
post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWR41

Simply turn bad checks over to the state prosecuting attorney office. They take this very seriously. There is NO fee, so let them handle it professionally.



Have you had success with this method? Unless the check was for a relatively large amount (say $1000+) I would think it would be very low on the DA's priority list.

In any case I would recommend giving the customer a chance to make it right first.

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carmijok Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 3:49pm
post #37 of 54

You DO have a paper trail. Every correspondence by email...all your Paypal online info...even talking with a Paypal rep can be recorded and printed.

Just send them (paypal) an email stating your conversation with the rep and requesting confirmation that the conversation regarding this incident took place and what they said about it. Dates and times, baby, dates and times.

Do NOT beat yourself up about this. This MOB dropped the ball and she's now dumping on the bride...and please...'waiting on new credit cards?' That's a new one! Plus you had no idea where the venue was? On what planet do you not discuss where to deliver the cake once it's ordered? That check would have bounced. You know that...you felt it in your gut and you responded accordingly.

If someone demands a refund (laughing at this one), all you have to do is have them prove they sent you one in the first place and that you cashed it! Good luck with that

I like Paypal. They inform you when there's been a purchase made and send confirmations. Yes, there's fees, but there are fees when you use credit cards! It would be nice to have a cash only business, but I'd rather have the money in the bank than try and chase down bad checks...which...even if you win in court, there's no guarantee you'll get your money. The time you spend dealing with that is more costly IMO!

You did everything right...you really have no reason to worry...and chances are that venue will be holding a bad check themselves.

Good luck...and get mad! icon_twisted.gif

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CWR41 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 3:57pm
post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWR41

Simply turn bad checks over to the state prosecuting attorney office. They take this very seriously. There is NO fee, so let them handle it professionally.


Have you had success with this method? Unless the check was for a relatively large amount (say $1000+) I would think it would be very low on the DA's priority list.

In any case I would recommend giving the customer a chance to make it right first.




Absolutely! It's illegal to write bad checks in any amount. It's a priority... they have a department that goes after them and they get results quickly. Most people are quick to pay when the consequence is being arrested and spending time in jail for repeat offenders.

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carmijok Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 4:10pm
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWR41

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by CWR41

Simply turn bad checks over to the state prosecuting attorney office. They take this very seriously. There is NO fee, so let them handle it professionally.


Have you had success with this method? Unless the check was for a relatively large amount (say $1000+) I would think it would be very low on the DA's priority list.

In any case I would recommend giving the customer a chance to make it right first.



Absolutely! It's illegal to write bad checks in any amount. It's a priority... they have a department that goes after them and they get results quickly. Most people are quick to pay when the consequence is being arrested and spending time in jail for repeat offenders.




So you're telling me that if I turn over a bad check for say $250 to the DA's office, they'll rush to collect and prosecute? I'd like to see some proof of that. Seems to me the effort expended on tracking down, corresponding with and then potential prosecution of the offender would cost six times as much as the check. And then what? You get your money? Not if they're in jail! And they'd have to be repeat offenders to end up there.

Seems to me a huge waste of time. For every day you don't have your money working for you, you lose far more than what a paltry fee from Pay Pal or a credit card would have cost!

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yummy_in_my_tummy Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 4:14pm
post #40 of 54

If she made the payment like she says she did, she would have a receipt or confirmation from PayPal. If she doesn't have a receipt, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
If she does have a receipt, she needs to take it up with PayPal, because they confirmed to you that you didn't receive payment on the transaction (to your acct). If she swears she paid PayPal, she needs to deal with them.

Not you. icon_smile.gif

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tiptop57 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 4:23pm
post #41 of 54

Back to the OP, it really doesn't matter how the OP contacts her potential clients, by phone or e-mail, and it really does not matter how she collects payment, CC, check or Paypal. What matters is this MOB put the blame on the OP and stressed her out and the OP has all the paperwork as back-up for proof. Ugh - shame on the MOB!

No money - no cake!

Have two glasses of wine and buy a nice box of chocolates.

(Second time today I posted this, but this is why I like my dog better than the public!)

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Pebbles1727 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 9:49pm
post #42 of 54

well, got the contract in the mail today, a day after the wedding...

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cs_confections Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 9:54pm
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pebbles1727

well, got the contract in the mail today, a day after the wedding...




Save the envelope - just in case she thinks she has a case and tries to sue. The date stamp will help prove you didn't get the contract in time!

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CreativeCakesbyMichelle Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 10:15pm
post #44 of 54

Just the contract? Or the contract and payment? Because if there was no payment there's still no case even if she sent the signed contract.

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cakestyles Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 10:46pm
post #45 of 54

The signed contract is useless without payment.

I don't blame you for not wanting to accept personal checks from out of state destination brides.

The time and trouble involved to track down offenders of bounced checks that live in another state, just isn't worth it.

If they don't have a credit card, tell them to send a certified bank check or money order...at least they have to pay cash for that.

So is the woman's phone number on the contract? Are you going to call her or leave it be?

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Mamasan Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 10:58pm
post #46 of 54
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Originally Posted by Pebbles1727

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It's a little strange that you don't have any contact info...if someone calls and doesn't leave their number you still have caller ID, and if they send an email you have their email address.
When you accept payments by PayPal or credit card, that's the equivalent of guaranteeing that 2-3 out of every 100 checks bounces with no hope of recovery (thanks to the fees).



Yes, I have caller id on my cell, but last time I talked to MOB was over 2 weeks ago. I had her e-mail address and that's how she got the invoice and the information. She did not respond to the reminder nor the cancellation notice, which have been forwarded to her via e-mail. Do you have any suggestions of what else could I have done/should do in the future?

I never had a problem with paypal or having to walk any customers through the process before. It is quite simple actually, like any other online ordering. I have also offered her to call me with her credit card number if she'd rather me process it for her instead of her using paypal. I have not heard back from her until tonight. I also never received the contract.




A Paypal payment would have shown pending AND you would have gotten that nifty little "you've got money" email from them.

My guess is that the MOB dropped the ball and forgot about the cake...

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Pebbles1727 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 11:21pm
post #47 of 54

Just the contract, no payment. I have confirmed with Paypal that payment on invoice was never made.

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carmijok Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 11:30pm
post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pebbles1727

Just the contract, no payment. I have confirmed with Paypal that payment on invoice was never made.




Hmmm, a contract a day late with no payment. Yeah, I think that glass of wine is in order and a sigh of relief that you didn't have to deal with a bounced check...or the MOB.

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cakegirl0905 Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 11:31pm
post #49 of 54

What's the post mark date on the envelope?

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playingwithsugar Posted 18 Aug 2011 , 11:50pm
post #50 of 54

Don't throw the envelope away.

Theresa icon_smile.gif

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step0nmi Posted 19 Aug 2011 , 12:20am
post #51 of 54

have they even tried to contact you again? i think you're fine...she knew she didn't have the money and that she was sending the contract late.

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Pebbles1727 Posted 19 Aug 2011 , 12:55am
post #52 of 54

The postmark says August 6th, so it took a week and a half to get here cross country. I'm not sure if that's normal or not. It would not have been here before the 8th, which was the due date, because the 6th was the Saturday. It would be nice if I got it quicker or if she called to let me know things are running late, or the payment got processed, or she responded to the reminder or cancellation notices. If at least just one of these 5 things happened, this could be worked out one way or another, and bride would not have found herself without a cake unaware. I don't want to think that MOB done this on purpose, just sounds like the ball got dropped on their side with follow up and payment. I have not heard from them, even though I expected to.
I'm revising some of my policies to prevent this in the future. This has never happened before, but I guess do it yourself, on location vacation bride is different than what I'm used to. I still feel sick over it, but the edge is gone. I'm still doing shoulda/coulda thing, but in reality, there is nothing that can be done at this point. I think lawsuit is quite unlikely considering that they have not paid for services. Thank you all for the input : )

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Pebbles1727 Posted 19 Aug 2011 , 12:58am
post #53 of 54

Oh you all, I just looked at what they send me, it's not the entire contract. It's just order info (size, flavor, design) and last page with signature. The contract pages themselves, that require initials are not there. Oh well, neither here nor there now...

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DragonFly2333 Posted 19 Aug 2011 , 3:25am
post #54 of 54

Just b/c it was post marked for the 6th doesn't mean it was mailed on the 6th. It's totally illegal to do it, but with so many online business there are "post offices" in many people's homes or have access to them.

I found a lawyer to post mark an unmailed envelope for a time capsule I was doing for a friends shower several years ago. Lawyers used to be the only ones with access to government mailing supplies outside the actual post office until the private on-lines store took off.

This lady's story is not adding up, I wouldn't put it passed her, but there is no way of proving it.

Just some food for thought.

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