Client Didn't Pay 2 Years Ago, Wants Another Cake!

Business By Annabakescakes Updated 26 Jul 2011 , 7:50am by LisaPeps

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Annabakescakes Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:17am
post #31 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecakediva40

Why would you wait two years and not tell them of the $30.00 owed? I bet you a dime against a dollar that they will not remember and think you are nuts for not mentioning then. I'd be a little upset that you are going to bring it to my attention now and expect me to pay it. Now, if you have proof if the charge, that would be different. ? Good luck! icon_smile.gif




LOL! I know these people, I don't need to prove it. They know me, they know I would never lie. I am sure they would remember and be embarrassed, that is why I didn't mention it before, it was awkward, and I didn't want to embarrass them.

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jason_kraft Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:19am
post #32 of 72

No need to hide any costs, to me the past due payment would be squared up by charging full price for the cake instead of offering it at a discount this time (as you probably would have done otherwise considering the quid pro quo mentioned in the first post).

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AuntieE Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:28am
post #33 of 72

I don't think there is a way to spare them or you the embarrassment, if you bring it up. Why can't you just chalk it up to experience and not let it happen again? I think most businesses would send out a bill after 30 days. I say this with all the respect in the world, but I personally think it's a little petty to say it's the principle of it after 2 years, if you did not ask for payment previously. Just my thoughts.

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Kiddiekakes Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:30am
post #34 of 72

Simply state to her kindly that the last cake you did for her you asked that she pay $30.00 and she never did pay you...Right to the point...no need to be ebarrassed..Chances are she forgot and will be the embarrased one...do collect your money though...Business is business..Period!My BIL ordered a cake from me one time...showed up late..ran in got talking..wife grabbed the cake off the counter and they took off without paying...I emailed him a few days later and kindly said that when they picked up the cake a few days earlier..in their rush they forgot to pay me..He came right over and paid me very embarrased...still got my money...Hey..It was my time and ingredients and he ordered the cake..I didn't offer it as a gift...

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gatorcake Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:32am
post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

No need to hide any costs, to me the past due payment would be squared up by charging full price for the cake instead of offering it at a discount this time (as you probably would have done otherwise considering the quid pro quo mentioned in the first post).




How is this not a hidden cost? You are offering no explanation for the lack of a discount which is designed to make up for the prior cake thus effectively hiding the cost of the prior cake in the subsequent one. Not offering them a discount now is charging them today for something you did not receive two years ago--it is still the basis for awkwardness.

Frankly I believe you should be upfront with customers, this is just a means for avoiding an awkwardness that you would be responsible for. Yes they did not pay, but make no mistake the awkwardness comes from not acting as a business two years ago in trying to collect a past due payment. (Sorry if this seems judgmental to the O.P. only trying to explain why I believe Jason's solution is no different.)

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VaBelle Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:35am
post #36 of 72

I can understand. I would have waited a couple of weeks waiting for payment and then felt awkward about asking. You know that they didn't intentionally not pay you and it's partially your fault for not asking for it way back then so I'd chalk that $30 up to business experience and move forward with the new cake. Definitely charge what you're worth and ask for payment in advance. If you don't feel comfortable asking for payment in advance (not sure if you're a busines or just cake for your friends and family), call them a week in advance and go over cake details and price on last time before you get started and then call the evening before to verify delivery or pick up arrangements and price. Hope it all goes well whatever you decide to do!

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cakestyles Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:43am
post #37 of 72

2 yrs is an awful long time...if it were within a couple of months I would remind her but at this point I wouldn't say anything.


I would just price this cake as I would for any other client, payment upfront, if that's how you usually handle it, and forget about the $30.

I think you need to ask yourself if your relationship with these people is worth more than $30, because if you bring this up now, I think they'll be embarrassed.

I believe it's an honest oversight. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

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jason_kraft Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:44am
post #38 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

How is this not a hidden cost? You are offering no explanation for the lack of a discount which is designed to make up for the prior cake thus effectively hiding the cost of the prior cake in the subsequent one.



There should never be an expectation of a discount on the part of the customer unless there was a previously arranged deal. In this case OP is handling discounts on a case by case basis. If OP had previously agreed to a discount on the upcoming order and decided to charge full price that would be a different story.

I seriously doubt the customer has enough chutzpah to ask why there was no discount on this order, considering their last order was discounted by 100%. But if they open the door it would seem to be fair game to mention the lack of payment from the previous order.

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gatorcake Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:45am
post #39 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddiekakes

Simply state to her kindly that the last cake you did for her you asked that she pay $30.00 and she never did pay you...Right to the point...no need to be ebarrassed..Chances are she forgot and will be the embarrased one...do collect your money though...Business is business..Period!My BIL ordered a cake from me one time...showed up late..ran in got talking..wife grabbed the cake off the counter and they took off without paying...I emailed him a few days later and kindly said that when they picked up the cake a few days earlier..in their rush they forgot to pay me..He came right over and paid me very embarrased...still got my money...Hey..It was my time and ingredients and he ordered the cake..I didn't offer it as a gift...




Which is in part what she is trying to avoid. Plus if you don't see how this would seem a little petty -- wait two years and then only after I order another cake now you come back at me with this? Why did you not ask me two years ago if was that important?

Business is business, the problem it was not handled that way. Do you not see the difference in your example and the one posted by the OP? A few days versus two years? Recognizing immediately and sending an email versus only saying something after the individual has approached you for another cake?

Yes you are right, business is business but the problem is it was not handled as a business two years ago, and my point it does seem to be about business when you suddenly decide to mention not being paid two years later when you did nothing to try and collect back then.

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Annabakescakes Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:55am
post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntieE

I don't think there is a way to spare them or you the embarrassment, if you bring it up. Why can't you just chalk it up to experience and not let it happen again? I think most businesses would send out a bill after 30 days. I say this with all the respect in the world, but I personally think it's a little petty to say it's the principle of it after 2 years, if you did not ask for payment previously. Just my thoughts.




I wasn't a legal business 2 years ago. No cottage food laws in Ky, and I had done their first 2 cakes having NO CLUE it was illegal.

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gatorcake Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:55am
post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft


There should never be an expectation of a discount on the part of the customer unless there was a previously arranged deal. In this case OP is handling discounts on a case by case basis. If OP had previously agreed to a discount on the upcoming order and decided to charge full price that would be a different story.

I seriously doubt the customer has enough chutzpah to ask why there was no discount on this order, considering their last order was discounted by 100%. But if they open the door it would seem to be fair game to mention the lack of payment from the previous order.




Golly after giving this family free cakes and a prior discount you think it would take a chutpah for them to wonder why no discount? And that is not the point. The point is your business practices, not what the client may or may not ask. And in your case the decision to not offer a discount is impacted by the prior non-payment that was not mentioned for two years.

Whether or not a prior agreement exists is frankly irrelevant. The decision to not offer a discount is therefore adding a cost to the customer--your refusal to consider a discount because of a prior non-payment is a cost to the customer. It is a decision directly influenced by a prior act no matter whether you build in that $30 or refuse to consider a discount.

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MissLisa Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 2:57am
post #42 of 72

I recently had the same situation. I created a cake for a friend. She was busy, I was busy, a very dear friend of ours was quite ill, she had family in from out of state, I passed the cake off to a mutual friend that was taking it to the party that I couldn't attend and the payment issue was lost in all of this.

Two days later, my uncle passed away and I left town for 3 days. The day after I returned, our friend passed away. There was a memorial service to attend to and the 4th of July holiday. I got thru those two and managed a wedding cake for the following weekend while packing to leave on vacation.

When I returned home this past Saturday I popped open my CakeBoss software and found that I had delivered an order and still had an outstanding balance. I printed the invoice to PDF format and emailed it to her saying I wasn't even sure I had attached a copy of the invoice to the box when I passed the cake off to the mutual friend. She responded to the email with "I am so sorry! In our bellies, off my mind. I'll drop payment off to you this week."

In my mind, had I not addressed the issue when I did (3 weeks later) and allowed it to hang out there I would have ended up eating the cost of that cake. At the 30 day mark, I would have written it off as a learning experience, sucked it up and moved on. At that point it would have been MY ERROR in not collecting monies owed me. If I honestly thought the person intentionally stiffed me for the price of the cake, I wouldn't be available for another order from them. If I felt it was a genuine oversight and it had been 2 years, I'd make the cake, set my price and move on.

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Annabakescakes Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:01am
post #43 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

No need to hide any costs, to me the past due payment would be squared up by charging full price for the cake instead of offering it at a discount this time (as you probably would have done otherwise considering the quid pro quo mentioned in the first post).




How is this not a hidden cost? You are offering no explanation for the lack of a discount which is designed to make up for the prior cake thus effectively hiding the cost of the prior cake in the subsequent one. Not offering them a discount now is charging them today for something you did not receive two years ago--it is still the basis for awkwardness.

Frankly I believe you should be upfront with customers, this is just a means for avoiding an awkwardness that you would be responsible for. Yes they did not pay, but make no mistake the awkwardness comes from not acting as a business two years ago in trying to collect a past due payment. (Sorry if this seems judgmental to the O.P. only trying to explain why I believe Jason's solution is no different.)




I understand, and take no offense. I was not a legal business 2 years ago. I was doing a cake for someone I know whose parents catered my wedding.

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Annabakescakes Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:08am
post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiddiekakes

Simply state to her kindly that the last cake you did for her you asked that she pay $30.00 and she never did pay you...Right to the point...no need to be ebarrassed..Chances are she forgot and will be the embarrased one...do collect your money though...Business is business..Period!My BIL ordered a cake from me one time...showed up late..ran in got talking..wife grabbed the cake off the counter and they took off without paying...I emailed him a few days later and kindly said that when they picked up the cake a few days earlier..in their rush they forgot to pay me..He came right over and paid me very embarrased...still got my money...Hey..It was my time and ingredients and he ordered the cake..I didn't offer it as a gift...



Which is in part what she is trying to avoid. Plus if you don't see how this would seem a little petty -- wait two years and then only after I order another cake now you come back at me with this? Why did you not ask me two years ago if was that important?

Business is business, the problem it was not handled that way. Do you not see the difference in your example and the one posted by the OP? A few days versus two years? Recognizing immediately and sending an email versus only saying something after the individual has approached you for another cake?

Yes you are right, business is business but the problem is it was not handled as a business two years ago, and my point it does seem to be about business when you suddenly decide to mention not being paid two years later when you did nothing to try and collect back then.




Exactly, and I do feel petty, but still, I feel torn about the whole thing.

I e-mailed her back, not mentioning the previous cake, I don't know that I will. I don't know that I won't.

And no, I didn't SAY anything, but I made lots of eye contact and said hello lots and lots, and mentioned the cake and how fun it was. (For the humor impaired: JUST KIDDING, I know that is not the same!! )

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jason_kraft Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:20am
post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

And in your case the decision to not offer a discount is impacted by the prior non-payment that was not mentioned for two years.



Correct, that would be the basis for my decision. I don't know how close the customer is to the OP so a smaller discount might be in order instead of none at all, but the decision to offer a discount is based on a number of factors, including whether or not the customer pays their bills (granted that OP could have done a better job of collecting in a timely fashion).

The only way you could consider the lack of a discount to be an added cost to the customer is if the customer was already expecting a discount based on a previous understanding, and I don't believe that is the case here. (For the parents maybe, but not for the daughter.) Even then, it's not a hidden cost -- the reasons for not offering a discount might be hidden, but the cost itself is not.

To me this situation is somewhat analogous to a customer who ordered before a price increase and orders again after the price increase, wondering why the same cake is more expensive now. If I like the customer I might give them a discount to last year's price, or I might charge the listed price. The reasoning behind my decision is irrelevant to the customer, and charging list price does not mean I added a hidden cost to their order.

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gatorcake Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:20am
post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes



And no, I didn't SAY anything, but I made lots of eye contact and said hello lots and lots, and mentioned the cake and how fun it was. (For the humor impaired: JUST KIDDING, I know that is not the same!! )


thumbs_up.gif

I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. I will be curious to find out how you ultimately hand the situation. That you are torn about the situation is a good sign and as such I am sure you will handle it with grace (which will be key to overcoming the awkwardness of the it).

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Annabakescakes Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:32am
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes



And no, I didn't SAY anything, but I made lots of eye contact and said hello lots and lots, and mentioned the cake and how fun it was. (For the humor impaired: JUST KIDDING, I know that is not the same!! )

thumbs_up.gif

I am sorry you find yourself in this situation. I will be curious to find out how you ultimately hand the situation. That you are torn about the situation is a good sign and as such I am sure you will handle it with grace (which will be key to overcoming the awkwardness of the it).




I'll let you know! thumbs_up.gif

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AuntieE Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:32am
post #48 of 72

I was about to say the same thing as gatorcake. You asked for advice and we sure gave it! No matter what you decide, you have to do what feels right for you. Hopefully we were able to give you a different perspective to consider. I hope you get to make the cake and the little one loves it. Ultimately, it is about her birthday cake and not who paid or didn't pay and the reasons why. Just make sure you get your payment in advance this time.

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Laulie Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 3:48am
post #49 of 72

Ok by now most opinions have been heard - but here is my 2 cents...You believe it was an honest mistake, you have had 2 years to say something and decided not to. Her parents would have more than covered the $30 by catering for your wedding so if it were me, I would just let the $30 go. It is not worth it! And if you are worried about getting the money for this one, do what everyone else said and get a deposit first.

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helen3743 Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 4:38am
post #50 of 72

You didn't say anything because you didn't want to embarrass them.. Understandable feelings--

but if you say something now.. wouldn't that be that 1000x more embarrassing to them?

If it was about principle, it should have been dealt with in the past.
If it was about your concerns for their feelings, bringing it up now isn't going to help...

Just my two cents. Good luck! icon_smile.gif

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LKing12 Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 5:03am
post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiefuncakes

If she's a nice person, the chances are it was just a slip up. It obviously is still bugging you, so you need to make a decision whether you want to confront it or not. As to this new cake, if she is not a super close friend I'd charge her full price, make sure you get a deposit and probably even full payment before you hand the cake over.
If you handle it all graciously then everybody walks away feeling good about it.



It does bug me, not because it is $30, that is nothing! It is the principle. It is money owed, and I want to be taken seriously.

That was basically the question, How do I handle this graciously?




If you didn't press the over sight two years ago, you should probably drop the issue.

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Rosanaymi Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 5:34am
post #52 of 72

I might get screamed at but I think you should just forget about the 30 dolars and just charge for this one like you normally would charge without any discounts, its been 2 years, you should have asked her for the money 2 years ago, whats done is done, and please get the money at least a week before the cake is due

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JWinslow Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 8:08am
post #53 of 72

There has been much you have to digest so I hope you don't mind one more piece.

At this point, I believe you should look forward to the next discussion for the new cake. During that time make sure she understands that due to some business issues (No Need for specifics) that your policy is for all cakes to be paid in full before delivery.

What is most important, is not to let this impact your business negatively in any way. Your business does not need this distraction and as you know, word of mouth is very powerful. IMO, taking this back on yourself and allowing your customer to save face while establishing a stronger business relationship can only benefit you in the end.

I hope this all works out for the best.

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costumeczar Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 10:54am
post #54 of 72

Wow, there's been a lot of philospohical blah blah blah about this while I was away...

I'll say it again, and then I hope that it works out for you however you decide to handle it.

1. charge her full price for this cake.
2. Get payment in full before you bake the cake, or don't bake it.
3. Add the $30 if you feel comfortable doing that (but it sounds like you don't want to, so then just write it off as bad debt.)
4. Never deliver anything without getting paid first again!

Good luck!

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Irish245 Posted 21 Jul 2011 , 11:39am
post #55 of 72

I would let the $30 go.

I would not discount this new cake. If it is mentioned about discount, you can explain that before it was a hobby but now it is legally a business and you don't give discounts....or if you want to discount, do a small amount and same explanation.

Payment in full on new cake, two weeks before cake date - you can explain that now that you're legal, you have certain policies you need to abide by - don't turn your oven on unless payment has been made.

Remember...it's not personal...it's business!

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vtcake Posted 22 Jul 2011 , 12:25am
post #56 of 72

It's been two years too long to collect 30 bucks. Plus, you got your wedding catered for free, and I'm sure that was a bit more than 30 bucks.

forget about it, let it go, take the new order if you want it. think of it as taking the high road if you want.

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QTCakes1 Posted 22 Jul 2011 , 1:47am
post #57 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcake

It's been two years too long to collect 30 bucks. Plus, you got your wedding catered for free, and I'm sure that was a bit more than 30 bucks.




Yeah, somneone else said something about that too and I didn't think about it. But talk about principal. How do you trip off $30 and they catered your wedding for free? Not saying you can't charge them for a cake, but really, $30? It's not $300. And they catered your wedding? I would think that would be an easy one to figure out. Just my .02. icon_smile.gif

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Annabakescakes Posted 22 Jul 2011 , 3:55am
post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by QTCakes1

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtcake

It's been two years too long to collect 30 bucks. Plus, you got your wedding catered for free, and I'm sure that was a bit more than 30 bucks.




Yeah, somneone else said something about that too and I didn't think about it. But talk about principal. How do you trip off $30 and they catered your wedding for free? Not saying you can't charge them for a cake, but really, $30? It's not $300. And they catered your wedding? I would think that would be an easy one to figure out. Just my .02. icon_smile.gif




I think you missed the part where I said I did a few free cakes for them and did some at a discount, and the part where I said this cake was done at cost, and would have cost $120. It is a 10" fondant covered and is torted 8 times and filled with premium chocolate and alcohol (Bailey;s).

I also did a full sheet cake with 8 edible images that cost me $7 a piece, since I didn't have the edible image printer at the time. It was a full 96 servings, torted and filled, and had fondant appliques. I did another half sheet with 2 edible images and hand-made gumpaste flowers.

I also did a 250 serving wedding cake, ganached, fondant covered, with gumpaste butterflies, and tiger lilies. This one was at cost, while the two sheet cakes were free. And I did a 2 tier fondant covered with appliques and gumpaste figures for free with a smash cake for the little girl's first birthday.

They insisted on paying at least cost for the wedding cake.

BTW, I bought 3 boxes of fried chicken from KFC and they just made the sides, (for 120 guests) which were FAB!, But we are WAY more than even by anybody's account.

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Annabakescakes Posted 22 Jul 2011 , 4:01am
post #59 of 72

And the reason I did all that for them is because I wanted to bless them the way they had blessed me. I had the money for the catering stolen from me 4 days before the wedding by a friend who was really messed up on meth. I was letting her stay with me to try to get her life back on track and get her kid back, and she relapsed and stole my car, money and carseat. I got the car back from the impound lot, but I had to replace the car seat already and never got the money back. With out them, I wouldn't have had anything to eat at the wedding, but they were out about $100 out of pocket and 5 hours of time. I have spent at least twice the amount of money and 10 times the time.

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Rosanaymi Posted 22 Jul 2011 , 4:22am
post #60 of 72

the question is: is $30 worth it??? it's just $30 bucks!! Is it worth probably losing this cake order? when you can just forget about it be the bigger person and hey it might even end up in your favor, just ask for full price forqet about discounts.

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