The Great Debate Put To The Test ~ Scratch Vs. Boxed

Decorating By yummy_in_my_tummy Updated 17 May 2011 , 7:03pm by jules5000

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DsLady614 Posted 5 May 2011 , 3:01am
post #31 of 92

I actually did this test on my husbands office a few months ago. I made the WASC and the Scratch WASC recipe that is posted here somewhere. Same flavor cake... same flavor icing.

It was almost unanimous... they all preferred the doctored box mix. Personally, I preferred the scratch recipe, I liked the texture and the flavor was really nice. But I think the texture of scratch baking isn't what an awful lot of people anticipate. They all said it was good...they just liked the other better.

Now I would like to say, I KNOW how to bake. I find the idea that those of us who use a box don't know how to bake kind of narrow thinking. I am the same as many here, its a time savings. And considering the fact that you will find a lot of people prefer the box mix, I think neither way is wrong.

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JessicakesBakes Posted 5 May 2011 , 4:21am
post #33 of 92

Funny. I just did this and the results were split. Some LOVED the doctored box and others said the scratch was the best they had ever had. I think it is just a matter of personal taste and what you are used to.... Both can be yummy and both can be awful.

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lilmissbakesalot Posted 5 May 2011 , 12:36pm
post #34 of 92

DsLady... It not that I think no one who bakes with doctored mixes knows how to bake from scratch as well... I was making no such assumptions. It was just a warning to those who are brand new to scratch baking. I know when I started my scratch baking adventures a long time ago I was frustrated with white cakes until I got the hang of it. It was just a friendly heads up.

It's a fact that not everyone knows the methods and techniques to insure a good scratch result everytime... especially if you don't bake from scratch at all or even if you do on occasion. Making banana bread from scratch, for example, is very much different than making a successful white cake from scratch. I just wanted to let people know that they shouldn't give up if it doesn't go 100% to plan the first time.

No need to immediately jump on the defensive. No one was singling anyone out or insulting anyone... just sharing their experience. I know my first few scratch white cakes were not that great. I almost gave up on it, but I am stubborn. I simply was trying to say that it gets better once you learn so don't give up if your first one comes out off. Seeing as how you have already learned... you could have completely ignored my ramblings since they obviously didn't pertain to you.

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LindaF144a Posted 5 May 2011 , 12:40pm
post #35 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

<watch this topic for replies with a big tub of popcorn>

icon_biggrin.gif

So this is where this is a big'ole fail despite its good-meaning intentions...

Box mix bakers generally can't bake from scratch. There, I said it. They don't know the chemistry, do's and don'ts, what makes a good recipe and they probably don't even have one in their recipe box. If anyone even volunteered chances are they bake up a big brick of over mixed, over baked, dry scratch cake then proclaim Betty Crocker the winner.

I won't bake boxed mix because I don't eat hydrogenated, fake, artificial crap, and wouldn't serve that to my friends/family even in jest. I have a reputation, you see.

Judging from how testy everyone is tonight, this thread otta get real good, real fast icon_biggrin.gif

Jen




Amen Sister!

The first scratch recipe I made came out terrible! Do only scratch baking for a year, then go back to box. That's when you will know.

And I cannot serve fake, processed, full of transfat product to my family any more. I value their hearts and health too much.

So if you want a bake off, practice for a year and then do the bake off. I will guarantee your first scratch recipe will leave you wondering what is the big deal. Scratch baking is not a matter of throw it all in and mix for 2 minutes type of baking. It is science brought to an art form. Mess up one part and you will have nothing.

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LindaF144a Posted 5 May 2011 , 12:43pm
post #36 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GCakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

<watch this topic for replies with a big tub of popcorn>

icon_biggrin.gif

So this is where this is a big'ole fail despite its good-meaning intentions...

Box mix bakers generally can't bake from scratch. There, I said it. They don't know the chemistry, do's and don'ts, what makes a good recipe and they probably don't even have one in their recipe box. If anyone even volunteered chances are they bake up a big brick of over mixed, over baked, dry scratch cake then proclaim Betty Crocker the winner.

I won't bake boxed mix because I don't eat hydrogenated, fake, artificial crap, and wouldn't serve that to my friends/family even in jest. I have a reputation, you see.

Judging from how testy everyone is tonight, this thread otta get real good, real fast icon_biggrin.gif

Jen



Most of my scratch recipes use shortening. I know you say you are being sarcastic, but I just wanted to illustrate a kind of strange thing.

WHen I bake from scratch I use shortening, and when I bake from box I use only cultured sour cream and top-shelf butter if I can get it on sale.

We all do what we can.




Not true, There are just as many scratch cakes made with butter as there are with shortening as there are with oil. It just all depends on where you look.

I formulate my own scratch recipes, with butter.

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LindaF144a Posted 5 May 2011 , 12:46pm
post #37 of 92

I've done my own test too for last year without even knowing it. The two major cupcake shops in town use a mix or doctored mix. Mine are scratch. Every person who gets my cupcake has said they are better than the other two places. In fact once a cupcake from one of those places was left over from an event at my DD school. Once the kids found out it wasn't mine, no one ate it.

I'll stick with scratch.

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JanH Posted 5 May 2011 , 11:55pm
post #38 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144a

Do only scratch baking for a year, then go back to box. That's when you will know.




I've been a scratch bake for over 50 (fifty) years, and discovered doctored cake mix recipes on CC several years ago.

I enjoy both select scratch and select doctored mix cakes. icon_smile.gif

For me which recipe to choose depends on who the cake is for and whether or not I need a LARGE quantity recipe.

I'm a fool for Elvis Presley's Favorite pound cake (cake flour). But when I make pound cake for my twin sister - her favorite is the (bleached AP flour) cream cheese pound cake.

But we both enjoy either Rebecca Sutterby's or kakeladi's WASC cakes.

We should all feel free to eat what we enjoy. thumbs_up.gif

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lilmissbakesalot Posted 6 May 2011 , 3:24am
post #39 of 92

I totally get, and agree with, that Jan, but I think what Linda was referring to is the fact that it takes time to be able to scratch bake and have the results be consistently good. So you wouldn't be able to tell right off the bat which you would prefer since it wouldn't really be a fair fight you know?

Once you know... do whatever you want. I am all for people making what they love, be it scratch, doctored mix, or straight mix. If you don't love scratch baking... don't. No sense killing yourself over something that doesn't bring you joy. I *love* scratch baking. I've been doing it for most of the 35 years I have been alive. I baked my first pie at 3 (with guidance from Grandma of course) and have never stopped. But if you don't... then do what you do love.

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hellie0h Posted 6 May 2011 , 9:19am
post #40 of 92

I made my first white cake when I was around 8 or 9 years old, the name of the cake was Feather Light White Cake...end product tasted like bread! I am now 63 and I remember that like yesterday. I agree that it is all in how the cake is put together. It is a science no doubt. (I like Alton Brown) Same goes for extended cake mix recipes, it just does not get all thrown together. I prefer my extended recipe for taste and texture, and I like my cake without icing, maybe a little real whipped cream, no cool whip for me.

For those that are venturing into scratch for the FIRST TIME, pay close attention to DIRECTIONS, if it says add one egg at a time to incorporate, don't add them in all at once, if it calls for milk, don't use water....in other words, don't take shortcuts. Tried and true recipes have been developed through trial and error, now you have been given a true recipe and if you follow the how to you should have relative success.

My personal opinion, a test of scratch vs doctored mix will render split opinions like here, lol. The upside of testing will certainly enhance baking skills. Another opinion, test the cake without any filling or icing, if trying this with family have some fresh fruit like strawberries or the like nestled on the side. Best of luck on your testing ladies and gents.

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SugarFiend Posted 6 May 2011 , 10:04am
post #41 of 92

One more thing regarding scratch baking... I see a lot of mention of following the directions. But even that takes some experience! For instance, "until combined" is relative. To one person it's combined, but to another, it's overmixed.

Another example: I was checking out the comments for King Arthur flour's tender white cake on their website. One person complaining of their results said, "...and I followed the recipe to a T!" And she went on to say, "...and I used superfine confectioners' sugar..."

Well, the recipe suggested superfine. Not confectioners'. Yeah, powdered sugar seems superfine, but that poster apparently didn't have the experience to know they're two different things. She was upset because her batter was so thick. But she is convinced that she followed the recipe exactly.

So while I continue my quest for a go-to scratch white, trying recipe after failed recipe, I always wonder if I'm like the King Arthur confectioners' poster, making a big mistake even though I think I'm following the directions.

Yeah, I think scratch baking takes experience even if you follow directions carefully.

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shari3boys Posted 6 May 2011 , 11:09am
post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangriacupcake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason-Lisa

Sounds fun! I'm making my own Mother's Day cake because I want to practice, I will try to make one tier from scratch and the other boxed!!!! Does it matter if it's the WASC? I think that is more of the debate....scratch vs "doctored" boxed cakes....



Good point. Yes, you're right that a straight-out-of-the-box vs a gourmet recipe might not be a fair fight! The most recent "competition" was a wasc cake using a yellow cake mix as compared to Sylvia Weinstock's yellow cake (both have sour cream.) Last fall I did chocolate wasc vs. Hershey's cake substituting sour cream instead for the milk.




What were your findings from this test? just curious

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southerncross Posted 6 May 2011 , 11:12am
post #43 of 92

Even if you can get a mix cake to taste as good as a scratch cake, you miss the real joy of baking: learning the art (and science) of baking; quality control over the ingredients (unless you're a big fan of emulsifiers like mono- and diglycerides as well as lecithin, xanthan gum, and cellulose gum which are in most mixes); and for me the most important element...the zen of cake baking.

There's the organizing of ingredients, prep work and shifting of flour, the soothing sense of wonder when you shut out the world's troubles and focus on the blending of butter and sugar into a fluffy pale blonde delight...or watch in wonder at the magic of gelatinous egg whites turn into billowy clouds then gently folding that cloud into the batter to make insure a light, airy cake.

Oh I know what it's like to have a hectic life and the temptation to take a shortcut but then when you do you run the risk of missing the healing qualities of cake baking. If it were always a matter of taking the easy way out, no one would bother knitting...everyone would just go to Walmart and buy a sweater made in China. We no not everyone will knit but thank the lord for those who do...same with scratch cake bakers.

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lilmissbakesalot Posted 6 May 2011 , 12:11pm
post #44 of 92

Awwwe Sharon... that's exactly how I feel about baking. I know not everyone dies, but I'm glad that I'm not alone. icon_smile.gif

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LindaF144a Posted 6 May 2011 , 12:15pm
post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmissbakesalot

I totally get, and agree with, that Jan, but I think what Linda was referring to is the fact that it takes time to be able to scratch bake and have the results be consistently good. So you wouldn't be able to tell right off the bat which you would prefer since it wouldn't really be a fair fight you know?

Once you know... do whatever you want. I am all for people making what they love, be it scratch, doctored mix, or straight mix. If you don't love scratch baking... don't. No sense killing yourself over something that doesn't bring you joy. I *love* scratch baking. I've been doing it for most of the 35 years I have been alive. I baked my first pie at 3 (with guidance from Grandma of course) and have never stopped. But if you don't... then do what you do love.

icon_biggrin.gif




Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for putting it better than I did.

When I first start scratch baking, I hated the result. It took practice and learning that some of the recipes you get off the internet are not formulated correctly. Make a mistake and get the wrong recipe when you first start and next thing you know you hate scratch and what the big deal and how can people like this stuff. That's where I was when I first scratch baking.

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Seashopgirl Posted 6 May 2011 , 12:19pm
post #46 of 92

I posted this in another area but I just saw this thread and thought I might get better feedback here. Wondering if anyone has baked any of the recipes from Warren Brown's "Cakes made from Scratch" book as well as his new book? If so, what are your customer favorites? Any recipes I shouldn't waste my time trying? Thanks in advance! icon_smile.gif

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Sangriacupcake Posted 6 May 2011 , 1:07pm
post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by shari3boys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangriacupcake

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason-Lisa

Sounds fun! I'm making my own Mother's Day cake because I want to practice, I will try to make one tier from scratch and the other boxed!!!! Does it matter if it's the WASC? I think that is more of the debate....scratch vs "doctored" boxed cakes....



Good point. Yes, you're right that a straight-out-of-the-box vs a gourmet recipe might not be a fair fight! The most recent "competition" was a wasc cake using a yellow cake mix as compared to Sylvia Weinstock's yellow cake (both have sour cream.) Last fall I did chocolate wasc vs. Hershey's cake substituting sour cream instead for the milk.



What were your findings from this test? just curious




Thank you for asking!

With the chocolate cakes, it was a close competition....everyone was in agreement that they were both delicious, but the Hershey's was thought to have a more intense chocolate taste, thus it won by a hair. As for the yellow cake, Sylvia's was much preferred, because the buttery taste really shines through in that recipe. However, people thought the wasc yellow cake was also very good.

I have become known for these taste-comparisons, and family members & friends are quite disappointed if I don't show up at gatherings with 2 cakes! icon_lol.gif

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TinkerCakes Posted 7 May 2011 , 3:47am
post #48 of 92

Well, I made my cakes today, one scratch, one boxed. I like the scratch better, although it was more "bread-like", I guess it's because I used all purpose flour and not cake flour....but it tastes really good! Not as sweet as the box, but I think that's perfect with the really sweet buttercream I made. I'm curious what the family will think, I am decorating tomorrow and then tomorrow evening I will do the test with them. It's supposed to be my Mother's Day cake... but around here, once it's decorated, it's time to cut it and eat! I realize if they don't pick the scratch cake, it's probably because I didn't make it as well as the "pros' on here....but I enjoyed baking it and I will enjoy doing the test...and I'm pretty sure they will enjoy eating it!!!

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yummy_in_my_tummy Posted 7 May 2011 , 4:01am
post #49 of 92

Cant wait to hear your results Jason-Lisa!

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lilmissbakesalot Posted 7 May 2011 , 4:43am
post #50 of 92

That's awesome! Even if it wasn't perfect, it's a start. Keep at it. AP flour can be used, but you have to use less of it. A cup of AP flour weighs about 135 grams and a cup of cake flour is about 120g. So when you sub it straight you end up with a little extra flour which can toughen things. Not to mention if you don't loosen up the flour before you measure it it can be compacted. You can actually get a whole lot more than a cup of flour in a measuring cup... LOL.

One of the best things I ever did was to convert all of my recipes to weights. That way it's always consistent.

Just some tips from someone who has made her share of mistakes...

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cheatize Posted 7 May 2011 , 5:44am
post #51 of 92

The recipe should tell you whether to use AP or cake flour.

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cakification Posted 9 May 2011 , 3:26pm
post #52 of 92

I did it this weekend! I did chocolate cake instead of white.

I made 1 scratch chocolate cake (that i have been making for years with minor tweaks along the way,) and i tried out the Chocolate WASC that's posted here on CC for the first time. I filled and covered both cakes with a caramel cream cheese icing.

The results are in and out of 8 people in attendance for the meal, 7 people preferred the Chocolate WASC and 1 person preferred the Scratch. I personally was torn, but ultimately i picked the WASC.

I will still continue to make both, depending on the occasion.

I can't wait to try this out with my Carrot cake. I have never made a box carrot cake, and everyone goes crazy over my scratch recipe, so i can't wait to see how the taste-test goes with that one.. I'll let you guys know.

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GI Posted 9 May 2011 , 3:48pm
post #53 of 92

Have posted this before. Wins over Choc WASC every time. Dense, moist, be sure to add extra yolk to tighten up the crumb. Bake no more than 300deg oven & line your pans, use baking strips. Serious chocolate cake and chocolate lovers will unite with this cake.
(Too much trouble? then bake from the box. )


Double Chocolate Layer Cake

For cake layers (makes 9")

3 ounces fine-quality semisweet chocolate such as Callebaut


1 1/2 cups hot brewed coffee (weak for no coffee taste)
3 cups sugar
2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 1/2 cups unsweetened cocoa powder (not Dutch process)
2 teaspoons baking soda
3/4 teaspoon baking powder
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
3 large eggs + 1 Yolk
3/4 cup vegetable oil
1 1/2 cups well-shaken buttermilk
1 Tablespooon vanilla



Make cake layers:
Preheat oven to 300°F. and grease pans. Line bottoms with rounds of wax paper and grease paper.

Finely chop chocolate and in a bowl combine with hot coffee. Let mixture stand, stirring occasionally, until chocolate is melted and mixture is smooth.

Into a large bowl sift together sugar, flour, cocoa powder, baking soda, baking powder, and salt. In another large bowl with an electric mixer beat eggs until thickened slightly and lemon colored (about 3 minutes with a standing mixer or 5 minutes with a hand-held mixer). Slowly add oil, buttermilk, vanilla, and melted chocolate mixture to eggs, beating until combined well. Add sugar mixture and beat on medium speed until just combined well. Divide batter between pans and bake in middle of oven until a tester inserted in center comes out clean, 1 hour to 1 hour and 10 minutes.

Cool layers completely in pans on racks. Run a thin knife around edges of pans and invert layers onto racks. Carefully remove wax paper and cool layers completely. Cake layers may be made 1 day ahead and kept, wrapped well in plastic wrap, at room temperature.
Freezes well.

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divinecc Posted 9 May 2011 , 4:09pm
post #54 of 92

I actually put them to the test two weeks ago. I used the scratch WASC recipe from edencakes, Rebecca Sutterby box WASC recipe and Kakeladi's box WASC recipe. I made them in 8" pans, frosted and filled them all with the same amount of BC and brought them to work. The leftovers I gave to my neighbors to try and kept a piece of each for my husband to test. I piped small colored flower on each slice (each cake was a different color), printed out numbered paper and had everyone write down their fav from best to worst. I had 17 people test it for me (they were very willing :0) 13 out of 17 people preferred Rebecca's WASC. 3 people preferred Kakeladi's WASC and 1 person preferred the scratch WASC from edencakes.

Some people wrote why they liked the cake and most said Rebecca's cake was moist and had more flavor.

I asked a few why they didn't like the scratch WASC and they mentioned the flavor wasn't as strong and was a bit drier than the others.

I am sure there are other scratch recipes that taste better than the box WASC, but I was curious to compare the scratch version....

In other words, BOX WON!

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lilmissbakesalot Posted 10 May 2011 , 1:49am
post #55 of 92

Some cakes should never be made from a mix, and carrot is one of them.

icon_biggrin.gif

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LindaF144a Posted 10 May 2011 , 2:53am
post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by divinecc

I actually put them to the test two weeks ago. I used the scratch WASC recipe from edencakes, Rebecca Sutterby box WASC recipe and Kakeladi's box WASC recipe. I made them in 8" pans, frosted and filled them all with the same amount of BC and brought them to work. The leftovers I gave to my neighbors to try and kept a piece of each for my husband to test. I piped small colored flower on each slice (each cake was a different color), printed out numbered paper and had everyone write down their fav from best to worst. I had 17 people test it for me (they were very willing :0) 13 out of 17 people preferred Rebecca's WASC. 3 people preferred Kakeladi's WASC and 1 person preferred the scratch WASC from edencakes.

Some people wrote why they liked the cake and most said Rebecca's cake was moist and had more flavor.

I asked a few why they didn't like the scratch WASC and they mentioned the flavor wasn't as strong and was a bit drier than the others.

I am sure there are other scratch recipes that taste better than the box WASC, but I was curious to compare the scratch version....

In other words, BOX WON!




This is a classic example of how scratch baking is different. Edencakes is a dump recipe - dump every thing in a bowl and mix for 2 minutes and then add the eggs. This method does produce a dry cake, dense cake. the egg whites aren't even beaten to incorporate some lightness into the cake.

There are other methods for mixing a scratch cake that produces a lighter, moister crumb.

Of course box won, it had all those chemicals that gives a moister and more tender mouth feel that equates to a moister cake. So box didn't win - chemicals won.

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cakification Posted 10 May 2011 , 4:20am
post #57 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmissbakesalot

Some cakes should never be made from a mix, and carrot is one of them.

icon_biggrin.gif




My thoughts too, but I just have to know if my family and friends can tell the difference! Its almost like a cruel joke! Lol

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Katiebelle74 Posted 10 May 2011 , 4:37am
post #58 of 92

I agree carrot should ALWAYS be from scratch, so should all pound cakes and red velvet. I have done doctored chocolate cakes with great results and doctored vanilla layer cakes with great results when it comes to box. I think the chemicals in the box help the "lighter" cakes stay moist longer. While rich cakes like carrot, pound red velvet hold their own w/o any chemical help. Chocolate cakes hold their own either way one's just a lazy answer. However, I've had a hard time finding a "light vanilla layer cake" that is super moist w/o being super rich and does not involve a doctored box recipe.

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TinkerCakes Posted 10 May 2011 , 2:03pm
post #59 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheatize

The recipe should tell you whether to use AP or cake flour.




The recipe called for AP flour...that's why I used it.....icon_smile.gif I had just heard that sometimes scratch cakes are more "bread like" with the ap flour and sooooo..maybe that was why mine turned out that way.

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TinkerCakes Posted 10 May 2011 , 2:18pm
post #60 of 92

Well, my little "test" doesn't count!!! Although the scratch cake was pretty good, of course everyone really liked the box better..... BUT I know it was because I either didn't really make it correctly or the recipe just wasn't all that great. I had my boyfriend have a piece of the scratch cake (he had no clue that I made 2 cakes or that I was doing a test) when he was finished he said it was good. I gave him a piece of the box cake....he said "this is more what I'm used to, but the other one was good too" then he said...."the first one is missing that artificial taste" LOL...I wasn't sure if that was a good thing or a bad thing.

I know, without a doubt, things would have been different with chocolate. I am used to making those and they turn out great.

Anyway, it was fun, but now I REALLY want to be able to make a good white scratch cake!!! I guess I'm not alone on that....I'll just keep practicing, as I do with decorating!

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