On a cake site, there is the decorating talent factor that allows box mix and scratch bakers to compete in the same field. I have always advocated that there is room for both in the market.
My concern is all the advice to go ahead and start a business without being able to bake unless it is from a box. Any book on how to start a business is going to start by telling you to be a master in your field. Because of tv, there is a new awareness and demand for baked goods of many kinds. More and more bakers and decorators are getting on this bandwagon every day. The innovation and superior products popping up every day is evident by just surfing the net. The books coming out this year are a testament of where the retail baking industry is heading... a more refined, niche marketing, boutique style. And like any popular product, it does not take long for the market to saturate and demand will be less than supply. Then the more innovative bakers will survive and the others will be on CC wondering where all of their business went. Being the best comes in many forms... location, a grand storefront and interior, a strategic marketing plan, cutting edge decorating skills, packaging and image, superior taste, organic baking, allergy based baking, lowest operating costs, sales ability... the list goes on and on. If great baking is not going to be your mission statement, make sure one of the above is... something you do better than everyone else. Because a business could open tomorrow that will put you under because you weren't prepared.
So well said - I was trying to come up with something similar but I don't want to offend anyone!
The thread obviously derailed a bit, the OP was part business question, part baking question. But you touched on what I think daily... people that use mixes out of a box taste just like the other person that's using a mix out of a box right down the street. Been proven at this point the cupcake/cake model is a pretty simple start-up because there is an already existing 99% foolproof base that anyone can prepare. The rest is art. But I think that I have an advantage over all those gals... they lack the ability and technical skill to bake even 1/2 of what I make. My 1st post stated but I'll simplify - if your market can handle another box mix cake business, then go for it. If not you need to get a really good product together and create your market. If neither applies then you need to revisit your business plan.
We are businesswomsn 1st. Always 1st.
Of course most of you can prolly buttercream rose me under the table. 
I've never even taken a Wilton decorating class. But I have lots of books 
When you say that they turn out pretty bad, what do you mean? Are they dry? Does it have alot of tunneling? Is it tough?
Are your ingredients room temperature?
Are you using a recipe that calls for butter and substituting it with margarine?
Cakes from scratch are a total different beast. They take a little bit more care. the first time I made a cake from scratch it was...well let's just say not too good. I though when you creamed the sugar and butter it was just a few second process. My problem was my approach. it takes longer to preparethem. If you could tell us what recipe you are using maybe that would help?
Well they're just bad...bad enough that I would feel bad making anyone pay for them!! 
The last cake I did turned out very dry, i thought I was eating chocolate flavored sand, I got the recipe off the internet though I don't recall where. Yes I do read through the recipe, several times in fact just to make sure. I know I need to practice using recipes but unfortunately I'm just starting out and don't have a lot of funds available, so that's a big problem right now. I do stick to the ingredients called for and I have been setting out my cold ingredients so that they can reach room temp.
From the advice everyone has given so far I am going to take a crack at the WASC recipe and see how that turns out...if THAT doesn't work I'll be back for more advice
When you say that they turn out pretty bad, what do you mean? Are they dry? Does it have alot of tunneling? Is it tough?
Are your ingredients room temperature?
Are you using a recipe that calls for butter and substituting it with margarine?
Cakes from scratch are a total different beast. They take a little bit more care. the first time I made a cake from scratch it was...well let's just say not too good. I though when you creamed the sugar and butter it was just a few second process. My problem was my approach. it takes longer to preparethem. If you could tell us what recipe you are using maybe that would help?
Well they're just bad...bad enough that I would feel bad making anyone pay for them!!
The last cake I did turned out very dry, i thought I was eating chocolate flavored sand, I got the recipe off the internet though I don't recall where. Yes I do read through the recipe, several times in fact just to make sure. I know I need to practice using recipes but unfortunately I'm just starting out and don't have a lot of funds available, so that's a big problem right now. I do stick to the ingredients called for and I have been setting out my cold ingredients so that they can reach room temp.From the advice everyone has given so far I am going to take a crack at the WASC recipe and see how that turns out...if THAT doesn't work I'll be back for more advice
I'm trying not to get testy here, but your post is leaving a bad taste in my eyeballs... do you think what we do as bakers/decorators/pastry chefs is easy? Like download a recipe off the internet=profit easy? Not to sound mean or anything, but what drew you to wanting to sell cake if you have no experience, have random recipes you are downloading off the internet, and have limited funds to invest in a start-up? Do you have a natural draw to baking? To be blunt... can you even bake at all, weather it's cookies or something? There is a lot more to this then grabbing a box of Duncan Hines and turning a profit. Starting your own business is expensive in any venture, but this doubly so because you don't sound like you have any basis to try to sell anything, let alone baked goods. Are you planning on baking from home? Is that legal in your state/county? Are you getting the proper licenses? Have you trained in food safety? Have you though about packaging, advertising, storage, refrigeration? What about all your tools and supplies? What about decorating your goods, are you planning on taking a class to actually learn how to do that? Because that don't come in a box. Then what about your colorings, fondant, sprinkles, ribbon etc? You do realize you will be paying retail for all of that, right? It's hella expensive until you can buy in bulk wholesale, which you won't be able to do without being legal.
I honestly don't mean to discourage you or sound down on you, but you really don't sound like you've given the "selling cake" part very much thought. Especially since you don't even seem interested in learning how to properly bake in the first place.
I strongly encourage you to throttle back on the idea that you will "sell" anything anytime soon. Stick with making cake for friends and family, try and get a job at a bakery so you see what it's actually like, or rethink your career choice.
I do wish you the best of luck in all you do, but failure sucks, and you just seem like you've set yourself up for it. 
PeggyH-
I like the motto you had under some of your posts: I am a novice right now in the cake decorating world, however I have been baking since I was small. I am on the path of learning new techniques and furthering my knowledge every day.
Enjoy exploring this exciting world of cake baking and decorating. Youre on the right track by asking questions and learning all that you can. We all had to start somewhere! 
Have fun creating your own interpretation of recipes and flavors. If people like them, they will buy them.
We are so blessed to be individuals with minds of our own. Just as everyone else does -- do what YOU want to do.
Well thanks so much for you up lifting opinion. I make a post asking for some advice and I'm eventually told "I've set myself up for failure". I'm sorry but you know nothing about me nor I you. Am I trying to obtain an education doing something that I don't see as work that I enjoy? Why yes I am. Have I taken classes to help broaden my knowledge? Yes I have. Training in food safety? Yes again. I have been baking since I was a child and have a family who is all too honest, who would/will tell me if something I make is awful, so yes again i think the path I have chosen fits me. No I have not made very many cakes in the past but that is something I am obviously currently working on. I am only making cakes/any baked goods for family and friends, so when I mention "selling"anything it is to family and friends who insist on paying for the time and effort and supplies that I put into what I give them and it's also because they support me.
I do know that being a baker/decorator/pastry chef is not going to be easy. Nothing is ever easy, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't follow through with what they've always wanted to do. And I know it's not as simple as getting a recipe off the Internet, but there are some very good recipes found right here on CC which many people do use.
I could go on, as I'm sure you could have too. But everyone has to start somewhere, all I wanted was a little feedback, not something that says you're not gonna cut it so move on. The way I see it my cakes thus far have been failures, but the key here is failure is just another chance to learn something, and I'm on way to learning what I need to. So while your judgement taught me yet another lesson, I hope you understand that you still know hardly anything about me or what I am capable of doing as a baker/decorator so don't base your judgement of a person on a forum thread simply requesting a little advice.
PeggyH, my initial posts were encouraging! Like 4 of them, I think. But you have given very little information about what you are really trying to do. So all I got from your posts: 1., You want to sell cake. 2., You googled a scratch recipe and it didn't work out. 3., You essentially need a "sure thing" because your funds are limited and don't have the money to try different recipes or to perfect the ones you try... and now 4, you really aren't interested in learning to bake. So I guess I don't understand what encouragement you were looking for from scratch bakers? From my perspective, and several others that posted on this thread, it's borderline insulting to what WE do every day as competitive professionals that put in countless hours in the kitchen and take our work very seriously, not to mention tremendous pride in our product, to have a new person to the boards post that they want to jump in the business of BAKING without learning how to BAKE. Your post was initially aimed at scratch bakers and ALL the scratch bakers said learn more and keep trying. That is my continued advice. Stick with friends and family until you develop a skill. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk. I am sorry if that offends you, or you feel it's a negative response, but it doesn't make it any less true in any venture you try.
Again, best of luck to you and I hope you see the "tough love" of this, and not that I'm pretending that I know you or your circumstances. But since I actually sell cake legally (and we on these boards also get really touchy when people sell baked good illegally using our recipes and techniques), I do have experience as well as an informed opinion of which you were asking the advice of!
Wow...you really did get beat up on your post. I hope that you view mine as positive feedback. If you're having a tough time with "scratch" you might want to look into a culinary program at junior colleges in your area (if you haven't already) Not just a quick "how to make red velvet cake" two-hour class but rather an intro to baking/pastries. I live the SF Bay and there are 3 such community colleges in my area with baking/pastry programs. These programs will have the baking classes as well as food safety, cost/accounting for food, purchasing, catering/business operations, etc.
Personally, I bake for fun and family. It was a passion in my younger years that I've revisited over last couple (school/kids/career took me in another direction). I'd love to go pro but I need a lot more technical experience. So before that, the next logical step for me is a Baking/Pastry program. Most Jr colleges will let you take the classes without actually getting into the program for a degree. I once took an 18-week class on Chocolate Creations and learned about the science and techniques behind many chocolate desserts/confections. AWESOME!
As with any business....you need a good foundation before venturing off on your own. Education is my "thing" and I can always learn more. It sounds like you are willing to too.
PS...I can bake but I'm not beyond a box either. (Depends on who I'm baking for). Last week, I made a quick cake for my niece's birthday and my Aunt thought it was the BEST cake she's ever tasted (even better than a fabulous bakery in town). I had to laugh and then told her was a box with my "special flair". I know of professional bakeries using both.
Everyone starts somewhere! I hope this helps and good luck!
FromScrathSF...I'm not entirely sure how you got that I'm not really interested in baking from all of that?!? But anyhow, I guess what I wanted to be understood is people have to start somewhere. I am trying to here, I'm sure you started somewhere too along with every one else out there.
I can see your bits of advice in your posts (keep trying...I can promise that I will). But I also see the portions of your posts that are degrading in ways, I can take constructive criticism but what I can't take are experienced people who don't think us less experienced or less skilled are trying or that we're really just not interested in learning about our prospective trade.
I am young and a declared novice, I am and will be learning for many years and I know and I am prepared for that. For now I am going to try something besides scratch so that I can work on my education and when I LEGALLY move beyond making cakes for my family and friends I will be more knowledgable and more financially able.
PeggyH
Sometimes ovens will overbake also. Your area could also be more humid less humid?? All those factor in. If I have a recipe and it is running on the dry side I adjust the recipe by first trying to bake less time. Then adding a tad more sour cream or a tad less flour etc. etc.
Hey sanfransico I would love to have a great butter cake recipe from scratch!! Heck I would like to have a good white cake recipe from scratch.
Ha.. I love baking from scratch... I have a carrot cake recipe somewhere that is my mothers and yum yum. I agree there is too many chemicals in this world! Hehe. It would be great if there was a from scratch area on here too?? Is there did I miss it?? We will be sooo lucky to have someone of your knowledge on here. Not that there aren't others on here too.
I use to bake a lot when I was younger. I had an old old wilton decorating set. I just dusted it off again.
Not to T/J your post here PeggyH.
Keep bakin girl!
I think we scratch bakers have shared more lately and I have loved all the knowledge passed back and forth. It would be nice to have a from scratch area so that while we are trying to learn from each other, people don't get offended. When we find a great recipe or technique, we need to share it and discuss it. Let's keep up the dialogue!
Confession time - I am 6 months pregnant. Apparently that does something to your hormones and you can come off like a meanie when you think you haven't said anything wrong?
I don't take back my previous posts because I believe in what I say and I also think there is some pretty great business advice in there, but is it possible I could have used less harsh words to convey my meaning? Oh well, too late now. 
Pregnancy can definitely mess with your emotions.
I think this is a funny debate that will never be resolved on CC. I grew up baking from scratch with my mom and then I went to Culinary School and baked in high-end bakeries. Baking from scratch doesn't really seem that hard to me, but there are certain sources that I trust.
Try some recipes from America's Test Kitchen--they are tested exhaustively and are very reliable. Buy The Cake Bible--there is more information in that book about the science of baking than any other I have come across. Once you gain an understanding of basic ingredients, mixing methods, and baking time and temperatures, you will start to feel more confident with scratch baking. Then you can make little adjustments to the recipes so that they are perfect for you needs. Trust us--it is worth the time and effort it takes.
Sometimes it's hard for those of us who have been working on our perfecting our craft for years to hear people say that a mix is just as good, and emotions run high. If you are baking for friends and family, and they like cakes from a mix, by all means give it to them. But you can really pride yourself on combining the most basic of ingredients and turning out beautiful and delicious confections, and if that is something you want to do then you can absolutely do it. Good luck!
Confession time - I am 6 months pregnant. Apparently that does something to your hormones and you can come off like a meanie when you think you haven't said anything wrong?
I don't take back my previous posts because I believe in what I say and I also think there is some pretty great business advice in there, but is it possible I could have used less harsh words to convey my meaning? Oh well, too late now.
My dear, you have my sympathy...I was a wreck during my 3 pregnancies! Only 3 months to go...take good care of yourself.
Peggy,
I, too, am interested in perfecting my scratch baking skills, so I'm studying lots of interesting books and trying many new recipes. But I'm just a hobbyist.....you want to become a professional, right? Excellent choice!
If I remember from my days in VA, Manassas has a community college, so why not check out their culinary program and see if it might be something you're interested in pursuing. If their program doesn't fit your needs, then find another. Good training is essential if you wish to become a professional baker It's also possible to learn through on-the-job training, but you'll never acquire the background knowledge that will help you thoroughly understand your craft. You'll never regret getting an education! Good luck to you.
I have never set foot in a culinary program. I learned to bake (from scratch, no less) in my Gramma's kitchen. I have a wonderful, successful, legal business. You do not have to have "schooling" to be successful.
OP - as I have always said here, take the advice that is helpful and leave the rest behind. There is a lot of good here, and so many that are willing to share. Keep on asking questions, no one knows everything!
I have never set foot in a culinary program. I learned to bake (from scratch, no less) in my Gramma's kitchen. I have a wonderful, successful, legal business. You do not have to have "schooling" to be successful.
Congratulations on your successful business. I never said education was the only way to learn to bake. This young person obviously did not learn at her grandmother's knee, wants to pursue a career in pastry, and would no doubt benefit from training.
Hey there PeggyH I'm a newbie too so I know how hard it can be to try to start up financially and emotionally. My one suggestion is to try websites like allrecipies that have user reviews. If I want to find a new cake recipe I always go by the ones that has the highest score. The great thing about websites like that is that you can learn from others mistakes! Make sure to read the comments and see what ppl have to say about the baked good. Did it turn out dry? Do most ppl suggest adding more cocoa? That way you have a better chance of making something tasty Also! Try going to your local library or googling cake basics. Like others have mentioned, baking is a science And that's super important to remember when you're making something from scratch. I don't think you should give up entirely on making cakes from scratch.. but maybe trying doctored box recipes for a bit will help you learn more about techniques and build up your confidence? I've done both scratch and box mixes but now I'm doing only scratch. I just think it's more fun to make everything from scratch! Plus I know more about what's going into the cake Good luck and keep at it!
I am with you "FromScratchSF"! I know a lot of baker's who make their cakes with a box mix and I admit they taste great. But I have a real problem with the chemicals in the batter. Having a child who is very sensitive to chemical and also having researched extensively the very real and harmful effects they have on our body it just doesn't sit well with me on any level to want to "sell" that to someone. Yes, people do it all the time and I am willing to bet they have little to no knowledge of what they are putting into their bodies. Jen (FromScratchSF), I am very impressed with your drive and dedication to your scratch cakes. I really want to do the same and I am working on it. I absolutely do NOT want to use the box mix. I hope I can find the same success you have because you are right, it is very hard work. Most people are not willing to put that kind of time into a product they are selling. Blessings on your business!
This is what I have learned about trying to teach baking from scratch:
There are people who do not follow the method. They assume that because you can throw a cake mix into the oven half mixed, that you can do the same with a scratch cake. These people can't be bothered to fold a beaten egg white carefully, and then they throw hissy fits at their baking teachers.
There are people who do not use the necessary ingredients (like pastry/cake flour for some cakes). There are so many resources on the Internet to tell you about flour--I consider there to be no excuse for an aspiring baking pro to forget.
There are people who have the idea in their head that they WILL fail and so they do so...time after time after time..regardless of how patient or supportive their many teachers are. Sorry but I can teach a 10 year old to bake bread when they really want to.
I was taught to bake by a person who came out of WWII with the knowledge of how to bake with the severe rationing limits of that time. The idea that I HAD to follow a good recipe diligently was drilled into me...with some real success.
I will also say that my best cake recipes have come out of those WWII ration cookbooks because the recipes are leaner, based on common ingredients that tenderize cakes, and more fool-proof in the formulation.
I have followed recipes exactly and I am not impression with the scratch recipes I have come across yet. I follow the creaming process, precise measurements, sifting, oven calibrated, several thermometers, and quality ingredients. I think honestly I need to come across good recipes as I am constantly told the internet is overflowing with bad ones. Will keep at it. Not in me to quit.
zamora, when searching, go to sites that rate their recipes. Allrecipes, Food Network, BHG, and southern Living are good ones.
Only make 5 star recipes. Once you get good at them, you can start to learn to tweak the recipes to your taste.
The other thing to watch out for on Allrecipes and Food Network especially, are that some of the top rated recipes are extra sweet and not really gourmet even though they get good reviews.
On FN, the gourmet bakers are Emeril, Bobby Flay, Ina Garten (Barefoot Contessa), Tyler Florence, and Giada. Sandra Lee and Paula Deen especially, have recipes that are not on a higher quality level.
@ scp1127 - Thank you for the tip! I will definitely keep that in mind.
Practice makes perfect! Keep trying. Soon enough you will make great cakes! This is annoying, but my customers don't know scratch from mix in taste tests... but I bake from scratch. As you can see, there is a lot of debate on this topic. Since I am required to list my ingredients, I do not want to list "propolyene glycol monoesters" or "cellulose gum" as ingredients... Also, from a food allergy standpoint, I know exactly what is in my cake and what the ingredients have been exposed to.
I prefer my cakes to be from scratch as well, but it is a challenge that can't be accomplished over night. Or even a week. Or a month and maybe a year or years. I've been a hobby scratch baker for going on 13 years. Cakes are my newest venture and though I have mastered some recipes, I still have so much to learn! I can't tell you how many cakes I have flopped over the last few years. I've likened the search for a good white cake/ vanilla cake to the quest for the holy grail. One time, I thought I had it. This cake was so amazingly perfect! Moist, flavorful, wonderful crumb...everyone raved over it. And then, I have never been able to replicate that cake. Every single time I've tried it has failed! I think my mistake was in not weighing the ingredients and recording them exactly. I've since then invested in a good kitchen scale. Every now and then I pull out my cake notes and work on that recipe, when I get frustrated I just tuck it away for another day when I'm feeling adventurous and have time on my hands.
So for now, that particular cake is from a doctored mix. I have nothing against a mix, but for me, I prefer scratch. I'll keep cracking away at it.
I've always been fascinated that with a few basic ingredients I can create with endless possibilities. Butter, sugar, flour, and vanilla. It's sounds hokey, but it brings me sense of peace.
I bake for friends and family. Someday, I might have a business. But before then I want to be armed with recipes of my own and more business knowledge. It might take me years to get there though, as I am a busy mom to a 6 month old, a 2 yr old, and 8 and 10 yr old boys. Most of my kitchen time is after my hubby gets home from work and my kids are in bed. Someday....::sigh::
So for now, that particular cake is from a doctored mix. I have nothing against a mix, but for me, I prefer scratch. I'll keep cracking away at it.
I've always been fascinated that with a few basic ingredients I can create with endless possibilities. Butter, sugar, flour, and vanilla. It's sounds hokey, but it brings me sense of peace.
I bake for friends and family. Someday, I might have a business. But before then I want to be armed with recipes of my own and more business knowledge. It might take me years to get there though, as I am a busy mom to a 6 month old, a 2 yr old, and 8 and 10 yr old boys. Most of my kitchen time is after my hubby gets home from work and my kids are in bed. Someday....::sigh::
Find yourself a used copy (or ask for one for a gift) of Wayne Gisslen's Professional Baking, any edition 3 and up. He gives small batch recipes as well as the large batch equivalents that have been tested in culinary schools. Nothing like having professional recipes to learn from...
I have to say that I I used to make wedding cakes many years ago all from box mix and stopped due to carpel tynnels problems, but I have to say that in making the WASC cake the other day after making many chocolate box mix cakes, the WASC was the bomb! Not only was there a whole new taste to the box mix, but the sour cream and flour did something to the box mix, and my cupcakes turned out so good, not falling apart, held their shape, had a beautiful mounded top, and tasted great. Whoever took the time to create the recipe on CC did a fantastic job. Congrats on your hard work, and many thanks for sharing. I took a Pillsbury Brownie mix and added the WASC ingredients on Thursday, and the outcome was an A+++ as far as cake balls go. Great flavor.
As for the different recipes, I have found that making a recipe and getting opinions from my cake GP's, is always a great thing. I ask for honesty and have everyone I let sample my cakes fill out a short oral survey, that I then put into my recipe book so that I remember what they said and I can tweak the recipe if needed at a later date.
Wish I could say I saw Alton Brown's show on cake mixes, I like his outlook on the subject. On another note, if I see a recipe on TV that I wish to try, I always print it off the website so I don't miss a single ingredient, but I have to say that after watching a show the other day with a certain beautiful female who made Smores Brownie Bites, I made these and theay are so nasty in my opinion. I followed her recipe, and did not add or change anything. Gross texture, and tasted really bland. So my thought is
"Just because something looks good, doesn't mean it tastes good- always, always, always, make it yourself and get others honest feedback before adding the recipe to your book".
Just my FFT.
Sonya
The forums on this site are super and the site called Cake Mix Doctor, Food Librarian and the one called My Baking addition. I am a better than fair country cook but my baking lacks a lot so I'm learning to kick up box mixes and so far doing well.
The foks on this forum seems very helpful. See the forum for Tips to spruce up a box lemon cake? That is where I got a lot of help.
Cllancey
I would NEVER order/pay for a cake from a bakery that knowingly uses box mixes. I would also never charge people for cakes if I baked from box mixes. I think that is very misleading. I don't care if people think box mixes are easier/taste better.
I'm sorry, I know there are many bakers on here who use "doctored cake mixes" but I still do not agree with it.
The baker's I know that use the mixes do doctor it but there decorating is incredible! They put a lot of time in to the decorating even though have used the box mix and added ingredients to it. So I thin k really people are paying for the skill in the decorating and that is definitely worth paying for. I myself and still learning the decorating part and I have come to really appreciate all the time that goes into it. I just want to do it with scratch cakes. Just my preference.
dandy I agree about the ingredients. I'm amazed at what can be done with four basic ingredients. Add piecrust, pancakes and waffles, and even custards to that list and it's even more amazing.
I'm in good company then! <3
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