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I started it, let's talk about it... - Page 10

post #136 of 183
I think that this thread is a great example of how conflicting this is for all of us all the time as a group. We are all mere mortals hashing this out, going 'round and 'round -- so too are the people slicing and dicing the rules & regulations. Some of them are legalistic, no grey area goes unprocessed, some of them let the non-essentials go.

There's an old saying, "the only law is the law of public opinion."
one baker's never ever do is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
 
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one baker's never ever do is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
 
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post #137 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis

I think that this thread is a great example of how conflicting this is for all of us all the time as a group. We are all mere mortals hashing this out, going 'round and 'round -- so too are the people slicing and dicing the rules & regulations. Some of them are legalistic, no grey area goes unprocessed, some of them let the non-essentials go.


That's for sure. Things would be much easier if there was some kind of cottage food law at the federal level that would take precedence over the mishmash of state, county, and municipal regulations and specifically allow home businesses up to a certain income level with a base level of food safety inspections from the FDA.
post #138 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis

I think that this thread is a great example of how conflicting this is for all of us all the time as a group. We are all mere mortals hashing this out, going 'round and 'round -- so too are the people slicing and dicing the rules & regulations. Some of them are legalistic, no grey area goes unprocessed, some of them let the non-essentials go.


That's for sure. Things would be much easier if there was some kind of cottage food law at the federal level that would take precedence over the mishmash of state, county, and municipal regulations and specifically allow home businesses up to a certain income level with a base level of food safety inspections from the FDA.



But another law ain't gonna fix that. That's all at the state and local levels where it should be. Washington can't handle Washington much less what happens in kitchens across the land.
one baker's never ever do is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
 
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one baker's never ever do is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
 
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post #139 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis

I think that this thread is a great example of how conflicting this is for all of us all the time as a group. We are all mere mortals hashing this out, going 'round and 'round -- so too are the people slicing and dicing the rules & regulations. Some of them are legalistic, no grey area goes unprocessed, some of them let the non-essentials go.


That's for sure. Things would be much easier if there was some kind of cottage food law at the federal level that would take precedence over the mishmash of state, county, and municipal regulations and specifically allow home businesses up to a certain income level with a base level of food safety inspections from the FDA.



But another law ain't gonna fix that. That's all at the state and local levels where it should be. Washington can't handle Washington much less what happens in kitchens across the land.



Though it pains me to do so, I must agree with you yet again. I wonder why you can be so rude to me when when think so much alike? thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif
Beginners, be sure to parrot advice and get your post count up as fast as you can. After all, it's not what you know, it's what people THINK you know.
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Beginners, be sure to parrot advice and get your post count up as fast as you can. After all, it's not what you know, it's what people THINK you know.
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post #140 of 183
Though it seems at this point, while there are many responses, the arguments are really just between a few going back and forth - so what the heck, I want to throw in a bit of info myself.

I had a legal, Retail bakery in the center of town (6 years) which I closed last year due to partner issues, economy and health. So...I heard that getting a separate kitchen from the one you use for family, can be licensed by BoA in our county. I thought "WOW our county allows it, Great! I'll make the garage into a kitchen. Sounded like a good plan, until BOH informed me "Nope, not in your town in this county". It seems there is an order for approvals: Federal, State, County and then local Town. While it is federally ok, State says it's ok, even allowed in my county - not in my town. Next town over there are people with those BoA approvals.

I had all my customers begging me to bake "just for them" out of my home. But, you know what, there is another retail bakery in my town. I just wouldn't do it. So, I have all kinds of bakery equipment, a Culinary degree, 25+ years of baking production experience, and I am NOT baking.

No judgement - just saying'.
post #141 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabakescakes



Though it pains me to do so, I must agree with you yet again. I wonder why you can be so rude to me when when think so much alike? thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif



I am not rude to you, Munchkin.
one baker's never ever do is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
 
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one baker's never ever do is the next baker's 'i swear by this'
 
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post #142 of 183
Oh sheeze.....
post #143 of 183
Wanna know something funny?

I was a WMI for two years, here in Cincinnati, and heard all kinds of stories from my students who "sell cheesecakes and want to decorate them" and who "bake for people at the office and want to up their decorating skills."

I wouldn't really say anything, but in the back of mind I could hear Beavis and Butthead singing "Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!"

Dummy me--little did I realize that it's all perfectly legal in little ol Ohio, either with a license or with a pretty simple 10 bucks and no carpet or pets in the kitchen.

Conversely, many of the laws in a place have a threshold. Will you be given a speeding ticket for driving 56 in a 55 zone? Prolly not. And that is the "spirit" in which laws are enforced. The letter may be broken, but the spirit knows there is little difference between 55 and 56. Someone MAY be pulled over at 58MPH, and may be turned in at 4 cakes a month but not 3. Is there a line? Sure, it's at the letter. But the spirit of the law allows the letter to stretch in the best interest of society in general, I think, yet keeps a line for when things get out of hand. And I thank God for that, because it seems like the gray area that keeps us from hurting each other, yet still allows us to help each other and keeps us from becoming a police state.
You don't HAVE a soul, you ARE a soul...you HAVE a body. C.S. Lewis
I'd rather see badly done cake than well done styrofoam.
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You don't HAVE a soul, you ARE a soul...you HAVE a body. C.S. Lewis
I'd rather see badly done cake than well done styrofoam.
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post #144 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitagrl

There's law...but frankly...its no business of a CC member in Louisiana (just pulled that out of a hat, no reference to anyone here) to tell a CC member in, say, Idaho, that they should not ask questions on CC about selling cake until they are licensed.

Let the person mind their own business. Let them decide if they are going to follow the law or not. Let them face the results of whatever they choose.

Just answer their stupid cake question and go back to your legal caking...ya know? Really....

My main issue is not that its okay to be illegal but that I get tired of the busybodies who like to start debates in threads about whether the OP is being a bad little girl or a good little girl.

I mean...that would be like...if I get on here and say "I have a problem...I was delivering a cake....and I got to the venue and I realized that I had left the gumpaste flowers at home...what should I do?" And someone to get on and say "I'm not sure, I have no experience with that, but were you speeding on your way to the venue or on the way home? Because if you were, you're a lawbreaker, and you're lucky the caterer doesn't turn your license number into the police."

I mean really...let the person speed, and let them get pulled over....let the baker be illegal, and let them get caught....but I think each of us have enough problems with family and illness and money and decorating to keep our own selves busy in our own lives without pointing fingers at somebody else's.

There are a TON of informative threads on this site about being legal...there is a huge thread on what states are legal....its very easy for a baker to find out what's right to do. Can we just let it rest at that?????

And if you are worried about local "illegals"....sheesh... just make your business so darn good nobody will WANT to buy from the "illegals". Spend that energy into your own business, not getting mad at someone else. Actually my biggest competition here are other licensed businesses...gives me something to work towards.



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post #145 of 183
I believe cheesecakes are considered a hazardous item in Ohio and therefore they cannot be sold by a home baker. The rule of thumb I use is: if it has to be refrigerated, you can't sell it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3GCakes

Wanna know something funny?

I was a WMI for two years, here in Cincinnati, and heard all kinds of stories from my students who "sell cheesecakes and want to decorate them" and who "bake for people at the office and want to up their decorating skills."

I wouldn't really say anything, but in the back of mind I could hear Beavis and Butthead singing "Breakin' the law! Breakin' the law!"

Dummy me--little did I realize that it's all perfectly legal in little ol Ohio, either with a license or with a pretty simple 10 bucks and no carpet or pets in the kitchen.

Conversely, many of the laws in a place have a threshold. Will you be given a speeding ticket for driving 56 in a 55 zone? Prolly not. And that is the "spirit" in which laws are enforced. The letter may be broken, but the spirit knows there is little difference between 55 and 56. Someone MAY be pulled over at 58MPH, and may be turned in at 4 cakes a month but not 3. Is there a line? Sure, it's at the letter. But the spirit of the law allows the letter to stretch in the best interest of society in general, I think, yet keeps a line for when things get out of hand. And I thank God for that, because it seems like the gray area that keeps us from hurting each other, yet still allows us to help each other and keeps us from becoming a police state.
post #146 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheatize

I believe cheesecakes are considered a hazardous item in Ohio and therefore they cannot be sold by a home baker. The rule of thumb I use is: if it has to be refrigerated, you can't sell it.


I believe that in Ohio if you pay the $10 to become registered, you can sell potentially hazardous baked goods also. Someone from Ohio can feel free to correct me if I have that wrong. icon_wink.gif

Edited to add: Yep, that's correct.
http://www.agri.ohio.gov/apps/odalicensing/odalicensing.aspx?div=Food%20Safety
post #147 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by -K8memphis

I think that this thread is a great example of how conflicting this is for all of us all the time as a group. We are all mere mortals hashing this out, going 'round and 'round -- so too are the people slicing and dicing the rules & regulations. Some of them are legalistic, no grey area goes unprocessed, some of them let the non-essentials go.


That's for sure. Things would be much easier if there was some kind of cottage food law at the federal level that would take precedence over the mishmash of state, county, and municipal regulations and specifically allow home businesses up to a certain income level with a base level of food safety inspections from the FDA.



But another law ain't gonna fix that. That's all at the state and local levels where it should be. Washington can't handle Washington much less what happens in kitchens across the land.


It would fix the problem if it trumps all other existing laws, as many federal laws do. For example, I can't think of a good reason for a municipality to deny a low-volume home-baking business on zoning grounds as long as there is no significant impact to the residential neighborhood, smart federal guidance on issues like this would help inject some common sense into the approval process.

This doesn't have to be managed centrally either, current employees at the state and local level could be moved into FDA or USDA to improve coordination, increase efficiency, and eliminate redundancy. States, counties, and municipalities would love this, as they could cut those positions from their budget. They could be paid for at the federal level with home-baking permit fees, inspection fees, and additional tax revenue from income that used to be off the books.
post #148 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheatize

I believe cheesecakes are considered a hazardous item in Ohio and therefore they cannot be sold by a home baker. The rule of thumb I use is: if it has to be refrigerated, you can't sell it.


I believe that in Ohio if you pay the $10 to become registered, you can sell potentially hazardous baked goods also. Someone from Ohio can feel free to correct me if I have that wrong. icon_wink.gif

Edited to add: Yep, that's correct.
http://www.agri.ohio.gov/apps/odalicensing/odalicensing.aspx?div=Food%20Safety



You are right if you are licensed. If you are baking under the cottage food industry, then no perishable items.
When life gives you lemons, make lemon cake!
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When life gives you lemons, make lemon cake!
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post #149 of 183
[quote="LindaF144a"]Think of it from this angle then.

"I was actually going to use selling drugs as an example. Both are illegal after all. And in the eyes of the law they are not going to be any less lenient because it was cake and not drugs. They do not work that way."


I couldnt help but laugh out loud at this one, My hubby is a police sergeant and he is sitting next to me laughing his socks off... anyhow back to reading the thread :lol
post #150 of 183
[quote="fairmaiden0101"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144a

Think of it from this angle then.

"I was actually going to use selling drugs as an example. Both are illegal after all. And in the eyes of the law they are not going to be any less lenient because it was cake and not drugs. They do not work that way."


I couldnt help but laugh out loud at this one, My hubby is a police sergeant and he is sitting next to me laughing his socks off... anyhow back to reading the thread :lol




Ummmm I don't think you can get arrested for having unlicensed cake under the seat. haha.
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