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Have a good day - Page 5

post #61 of 93
Thread Starter 
Ices needs to own and take the responsibility for their part in an unfair and slipshod run event. They need to acknowledge the dichotomous, trichotomous, quadchotomous, quintchotomous you get the drift, rules.
The crummy way they bitch slapped me at the start gate and afterwards with that ridiculous sign here on the dotted line and we'll tell yah the results fiasco where I never heard from them for a week.

I am insulted, righteously indignant by their thought that I needed to be disqualified.
Who do they think they are.

Here's what their own rules say: [/color]

Quote:
Quote:

Question : We read a lot about what is allowed, but what is not allowed? Is there anything that we could bring in that would disqualify us or
prevent us from earning the points (besides workmanship) of an element.

Answer: Wow, great question. I've been thinking about this one for a while, and I'm not coming up with any specific tools or supplies which
would automatically disqualify you.

{raising hand frantically--me me teacher I got one!!!}

BUT if you were to bring in pre-made items that the adjudicators feel reasonably sure that you did not make
yourself, those premade items could be disqualified for use, and the adjudicators would subsequently be keeping a much closer eye on you and
your work.


{NOT!!!!!! No they disqualifed ME not my premade items like it clearly states~they don't even know thier own dang rules}

For example, you bring in commercially made gum paste flowers to place on your cake, and one or more adjudicators recognize
them as not your work. Or you bring in beautifully finished runout pieces, but the pieces you make during the test look like someone attempting
the skill for the very first time.



In your most pinched squeeky strained high pitched confusedescending (sic) voice---the voice of Ices
Quote:
Quote:

Well we're so caring and sharing we're out like busy buzzy little bees with our abundant caring and and bountiful sharing. And also we volunteer share and volunteer care, we have day jobs but we volunteer so you have to be patient with us no no no we are not patient with you we care and we share no matter what.

We care about ourselves and we share no responsibility.
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post #62 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by playingwithsugar

Does anyone know the answer to this question --

Is this certification recognized/accepted by any other organization, such as RBA, any culinary/pastry schools, the MOF in France, anything?

Theresa icon_smile.gif



I don't think so...If I remember correctly, this is something new that they've done for only two or three years. It sounds like a money-making opportunity for ICES more than anything else "Hey kids, let's put on a certification program! We can rake in some bucks from that!"

I see why you'd want the certification if you were going to use it as evidence of something for the zoning board, but I have such a low opinion of most judged competitions/tests anyway, I don't see the point of doing them. Out of curiosity, what would the zoning board let you do that you can't do without this particular certification?
post #63 of 93
Oh yeah, K8, by the way, it's not the International Cake Exploration "Society", it's "Societe' " icon_lol.gif
post #64 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by playingwithsugar

Does anyone know the answer to this question --

Is this certification recognized/accepted by any other organization, such as RBA, any culinary/pastry schools, the MOF in France, anything?

Theresa icon_smile.gif



I don't think so...If I remember correctly, this is something new that they've done for only two or three years. It sounds like a money-making opportunity for ICES more than anything else "Hey kids, let's put on a certification program! We can rake in some bucks from that!"

I see why you'd want the certification if you were going to use it as evidence of something for the zoning board, but I have such a low opinion of most judged competitions/tests anyway, I don't see the point of doing them. Out of curiosity, what would the zoning board let you do that you can't do without this particular certification?



Let me tell you why I asked - In the past, I worked with a local colleges and universities to promote the education programs that my employer provided.
I see no need to take a test that is not recognized by any other organization. ICES is not an accredited teaching facility, nor is accredited by the distance learning council. You can't show that to the Dean of Admissions and get college credit for it. You can't take it to a pastry diploma program and say "ICES says I can do this" and expect them to let you stay home for that section. It doesn't give you letters after your name, like M.A. or Ph.D. So, technically, the only people who would give a hoot about that certificate are other ICES people, and maybe some customers.

I don't want all of you to think that I absolutely hate ICES. I had met a couple of very nice people there. Only a couple, but that's another story for another time.
I have little respect for the organization in general and most of the membership that is still living in the 1950's, and treat the organization like it's some kind of covert militia. I commend B. Keith Ryder and those who were truly with him, for trying to bring the group into the light of the new millennium, but it keeps falling back into the control of those who can't accept change or progress, and those who think treat ICES like it's a religion.

Theresa icon_smile.gif
post #65 of 93
Thread Starter 
I love Keith too--class act, has my utmost respect.

Czarina, I don't know that the zoning board woulda done anything different. They let you apply for the variance but are quick to say they've never granted one. I wanted to try & run with that ball though.

Maybe I was grasping at straws (dowel).
Ok I was grasping at straws.

I have two commercail ovens, blablablablablablabla never been used. One is brand spanking new. A Deluxe.

Yeah I'm a dreamer--thought I could market myself into teaching more too.
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post #66 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Oh yeah, K8, by the way, it's not the International Cake Exploration "Society", it's "Societe' " icon_lol.gif



Yeah you're rignt.

And doesn't the 'I' stand for Inept?

Have you ever read that mission statement?
Even on my happiest most carefree day on the planet, when I read that I throw up in my mouth a little.
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post #67 of 93
Ok Kate - this will make you laugh. I went onto the ICES webiste to see what it's all about (parden my Aussie ignorance). My hubby just came home to grab some lunch, walked in behind me and saw the pic on their home page of the topsy turvy with all the flowers and exclaimed "Oh my god, is that another cake disaster!" I know - he's a man, but I cracked up considering all these posts!

What is the zoning benefit you will get out of all this? Is it worth all the angst and is there another path you can take to get the same result. As in, from what Theresa has said, is there another organisation you can gain accreditation with that is not living in the dark ages! ( and also more recognised.)

If your pre-made pieces were being disputed, surely the more time they had to actually watch you work the better, to determine if they were in fact yours. By not allowing you to start, they did not give you fair chance to prove yourself. So they basically called you a cheat and then didn't allow a right of reply. I can only assume that you were embarrassed and your business name was tarnished. In which case, a well worded letter using the "defamation"word might see a speedy refund coming your way!

Did the piece of paper they had you sign waive your right to dispute their decision?
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." Mae West.
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"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." Mae West.
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post #68 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lthiele

...What is the zoning benefit you will get out of all this? Is it worth all the angst and is there another path you can take to get the same result. As in, from what Theresa has said, is there another organisation you can gain accreditation with that is not living in the dark ages! ( and also more recognised.)

If your pre-made pieces were being disputed, surely the more time they had to actually watch you work the better, to determine if they were in fact yours. ...
In which case, a well worded letter using the "defamation"word might see a speedy refund coming your way!

Did the piece of paper they had you sign waive your right to dispute their decision?



I love your husband! icon_biggrin.gif

I have this unyielding brickheaded passion to do cakes at home. It only makes sense for me. But it is not legal here without a zoning variance. It's all about being legal and working from home.

I could go get a commercial location but then the overhead. I have tons of energy but I am limited a little physically so part time cakes is best for me and part time cakes won't pay the rent in a commercial location.

No I did not sign away my right to dispute.

And I like the idea of a letter very much--not that they're not logged on here reading this either--Hey Glenda, Hey Kim. Glenda is the president and Kim is the new head of certification future.

But then I'm thinking geez I sent a check from Tennessee to the East coast to pay for it and the test was conducted in Illinois-wonder where the jurisdiction lies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lthiele

By not allowing you to start, they did not give you fair chance to prove yourself. So they basically called you a cheat and then didn't allow a right of reply. I can only assume that you were embarrassed and your business name was tarnished.



Even though you are waaaay across the globe and I've been ranting like a crazy person--you got it. That's it. I'm an honest person. They impugned my character. I'm a deacon in my church. A deacon. Taht word means servant, a worker bee and it means a well respected person. Not a cheater.They dq'd me without cause by their own rules. I am honest. I did not cheat. They were SO WAY WRONG. SO WAY WRONG. WAY WAY WRONG to do that.

And I have fibromyalgia. My brain power was long gone by the time I stopped shaking from the disqualification. But I finished every freaking skill I said I was gonna do.

You guys are helping me so much. I could just hug you (((hug)))
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post #69 of 93
It's a big fat pain in the butt for you guys to have to have commercial kitchens, I work from home too. Surely having an ICES accreditation can't be the only way to get the variance. Over here we have to have our kitchens inspected by our local council Environmental Health officer and they like you to do a Food Handling Hygiene course.

Has there been any other threads about getting a variance, it would be great to talk to other cakers who have done it.

It appears common sense along with common courtesy was lost in this situation. From the Q & A's you posted, I find it offensive on your behalf that you were forced to sit and wait it out in a room full of your peers, whilst your character and ability were disputed. No classy - not classy AT ALL!! The had the right to not pass you at the END, that is after all what a test is right? dunce.gif big hugs!
"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." Mae West.
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"When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before." Mae West.
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post #70 of 93
jurisdiction lies where the entity in question is incorporated (why so many credit card companies are in just 2 states: Delaware & South Dakota -- very cc friendly rules)

according to their bylaws (under legal section on their website) it is Michigan. See articles I, II and III

http://www.ices.org/legal/CurrentBylaws.pdf
Keep on cakin'!
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Keep on cakin'!
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post #71 of 93
Sorry if I missed this if you explained this already, but I'm still confused?

So if you werenât disqualified for premade stuff, what exactly were you disqualified for? What did they say you were disqualified for?

Also, how long was the temporary disqualification? How long did you have to work? How long did everyone else have?
post #72 of 93
Doug- you are a totally certifiable nutjob! And we all love you.
Raising children is like being pecked to death by a chicken!
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post #73 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by maggiev777

Sorry if I missed this if you explained this already, but I'm still confused?

So if you werenât disqualified for premade stuff, what exactly were you disqualified for? What did they say you were disqualified for?

Also, how long was the temporary disqualification? How long did you have to work? How long did everyone else have?



It was a brief time--but it was at the very start--It was, "No you can't start" with their arms outstretched like a traffic cop. I'm like "What????"

Why not. Everybody else is. I mean we took our vacation time to do this. We traveled over 500 miles. I spent months and months and months planning and practicing. With lodging and ingredients and equipment I spent thousands of dollars. What do you mean I can't start? It's go time.

Then in a few someone said, "She can start." But the mental damage was done but I just freaking got going on my Lambeth but I was shaking pretty bad .

I mean they were coming up & telling me to breath breath because I was messed up but I couldn't diddle around I had to pump it out-game on.

So rewind with me--45 minutes before the start time when I sat two of the 3 tiers on the presentation table, painted & pearled & piped. 10-15 minutes later a public announcment is made that nothing can go on the presentation tables unless it is finished and then it cannot be removed.

So that's the first time I got embarassed and while passive it was a public upbraiding because nobody else had anything on their tables.

All that to say they totally knew about the cakes 45 minutes before the start. Then there's 15 minutes when adjudicators are in private rummaging through your stuff to make sure you don't have anything you shouldn't have. So they had 15 minutes in private to discuss this.

It's like a foot race where everybody starts but you. Catch yah later...
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post #74 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by K8memphis-

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Oh yeah, K8, by the way, it's not the International Cake Exploration "Society", it's "Societe' " icon_lol.gif



Yeah you're rignt.

And doesn't the 'I' stand for Inept?

Have you ever read that mission statement?
Even on my happiest most carefree day on the planet, when I read that I throw up in my mouth a little.



My husband makes fun of me every time he sees the ICES name anywhere, since he found out that they also claim it stands for "Icing, Caring, Everyone Sharing." Gross....
post #75 of 93
[quote="costumeczar"][quote="K8memphis-"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar



My husband makes fun of me every time he sees the ICES name anywhere, since he found out that they also claim it stands for "Icing, Caring, Everyone Sharing." Gross....



Yeah, at a price. $60 USD a year for a newsletter, and the privilege of spending a couple of thousand dollars to attend their convention and classes, then spend some more at the vendors, then spend some more taking a test that doesn't mean a damn thing outside their world.

Sharing used to mean giving from your heart, not picking someone's pocket.

I'll pass.

Theresa icon_smile.gif
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