Will I Get In Trouble For Having A Website? Please Help!
Business By ibakebyjks Updated 22 Jun 2009 , 6:51pm by Dizzymaiden
.. when peeps see your portfolio they'll already assume you do.
Uhhhhh .... isn't that the whole point of this thread? 
If "peeps" will assume you are selling them, then wont' the HD assume it too?
.. As far as entrapment performed by the HD, is that even legal?
"entrapment"??????
....well aren't the prices jacked up a little higher because of the overhead that the store owner decided they wanted to take on when they signed their name on the dotted line?
"Jacked up"???????
So if I don't want to have to "jack up" my pricing, I should just work illegal? What the heck, why not sell a little pot on the side .... I hear there's more profit and less work involved.
your choice of words are very telling.
And that's MY rant.
My friends and family told me to do the same thing and I put my photos on my personal web page that comes free with my internet service. They encouraged me to put serving sizes and prices, so I did.
Then I read about licensing issues here on CC and removed all that info. I just have cake photos and my email. Since it is a personal web page, the only way anyone can see it is if I give them the address. I only wanted my friends and family to see my cakes, not start a business or sell cakes outside my friends and family. And I definitely don't want the hassle of people turning me in or health departments coming after me when I just decorate for fun.
I think the members here have given you some good advice. Web pages are great for displaying your work if you are just a hobbiest like me. If you want to sell cakes using a web page then it is best to go the legal route first or risk a lot of trouble.
First let me say that a website opens you up to so many more people. I started out of my home and agter 6 months got a po box and a website. the interest in my cakes more tripled. I got scared! I began looking for kitchen space and never found any in my area. so it not that easy, plus you still need to carry insurance.
Now for my rant! i'm sorry to say this but people who don't have anything educated to say should just not respond. Home baking will not become legal in every state, especially California (where I'm at). There are plenty of reasons why... cross contamination, peoples homes are not as clean due to children, pets and backyards (dust, bugs, etc). No offense to home bakers but a comercial kitchen in California can't have even have the same cleaning products as you would use at home. You are required to have a sink with 3 basins and kitchen aid mixer require special permission.
People who have made the decision to open a business are doing what is legal in California. I have no need to go and find all of the home bakers and turn them in. I do operate with blinders on and do my own thing. The point here is that the HD gets paid to look for home bakers. And as far as the taxes that pay their salaries, home bakers aren't paying in the income taxes on the cakes they bake, which is another issue. if you report your cake incoem you risk getting caught and if you don't well you can imagine.
So from my own experience I baked at home to get started, but was always a little scared, especially as the word spread. I never made wedding cakes, becuase I had no insurance and I never allowed anyone to pick up a cake. I conducted no tastings and never mentioned I worked from home.
If anyone works from home in a state that it is permitted don't worry about bakery owners turning you in worry about the HD and tax officials.
Sorry this was long I have more to say but will stop because my mind is faster than my hands and I risk not making sense.
Rebecca
.. when peeps see your portfolio they'll already assume you do.
Uhhhhh .... isn't that the whole point of this thread?
If "peeps" will assume you are selling them, then wont' the HD assume it too?
Assume and proof are two different things.
.. As far as entrapment performed by the HD, is that even legal?
"entrapment"??????
What exactly is your question here?
....well aren't the prices jacked up a little higher because of the overhead that the store owner decided they wanted to take on when they signed their name on the dotted line?
"Jacked up"???????
Not way up just a little, maybe not all peeps do this? Heard it many times though. My apologies if it's not true for the masses, wow settle down 
So if I don't want to have to "jack up" my pricing, I should just work illegal? What the heck, why not sell a little pot on the side .... I hear there's more profit and less work involved.
Well that's entirely up to you, however there's kind of a huge difference between selling illegal drugs and selling cake (one is a huge felony) 
. That's taking it way out of context, no?
your choice of words are very telling.
Hmm, that's highly subjective.
And that's MY rant.
Congrats! You're entitled to your opinion just like me! 
I'm really apprecited you, probies, taking time to give me your advices. I did post a cake book on Facebook for my friends to see, with a little description of the cakes but no prices; I also posted the same pics on Flickr only for my friend's neighbor to see should she become interested in my cakes, no contact info nor prices. I almost set up a free website through Verizon, only aborted it the last minute when THE THOUGHT came across my mind....... 
You all mentioned "license/licensing" from time to time, can ya'll fill me in a bit more? I guess I want to change subject. I'm truly a newbie, I don't know what the license for? is this license for selling cakes? Please help me out. 
in California a bakery must have a seller's permit issued by the state tax borad, a health department licence and a buisness licence. The health department will come by unannounced at least 3 times a year to inspect everything. The even noted my light fixture in the past. They look at where your place your eggs in the fridge and check the chlorine content of your water. The business licence is issued at the city level.
As far as goldenegg's comments. There is no right kinda of illegal. Like I said I started at home but took a lot of precautions and used every cent I made to open a legal bakery.
Good luck to all home bakers looking to open a bakery.
hi sweetcakes , do i need the seller's permit if i'm selling out of home? i believed timing is the key. u must b very good in ur business, not did u make good cakes, u moved fast, too. i'm planning for a second career in case i need to retired from my current job early. i know my church has a commercial grade kitchen, i'm hoping i can rent the kitchen there when the time comes. i don't want to get into any trouble nor anything illegal, that's why i started the thread, fishing for advices to help me plan better.
Back to the original question...having a website doesn't automatically mean you're selling your cakes...I've got a website just because I enjoy making websites the same as I enjoy making cakes, but I don't sell cakes, don't take money for ingredients, don't use the delivery charge loophole, etc...there aren't any prices on my cakes and when people ask, I tell them that I am just a hobby baker.
Anyhow, from what I've looked up in TX, you have to have a separate entrance to the kitchen and it can't be used to prepare meals for the family, if it's going to be your home kitchen. Using your church's kitchen would probably work...you'd have to get a food manager's license and a business license I think. Earlene Moore has some good info on her website http://www.earlenescakes.com/business03.htm
Goldenegg, Legal bakers are not the big bad wolves here--we all need to obey our laws even though they vary so much all across the country.
As far as entrapment performed by the HD, is that even legal? I've never heard of it being done like that I always assumed they were tipped off. Do they not need to have proof of an actual transaction for a cake? If they're hiring peeps to scour the net all day I'll put my resume in.
You know if you think about it, since our tax dollars pay their salary, home bakers are paying the HD to bust themselves. ouch.
Entrapment means the official induced the cakers to provide cake illegally.
And that's not the case at all.
If you look at it that way, any gangbanger that ever paid tax is doing the same.
yamber82, I like the idea of free cake with extreme delivery charge, there's always a loop hole in any law and that sounds like a loop hole to me
Not a loop hole, not even close to a loop hole. They bust people for baking illegally.
I feel for all the home bakers that are just trying to get going and can't because of their financial situation or what have you, esp Texas home bakers because our bill to make this legal died before it's second reading due to a few time wasting representatives in this session.
Home bakers are not beyond the law just because they might need money.
<rant>Take this for what it is, it's not directed at anyone in particular and no offense intended but store owners that make it a point to "rat out" their home baker competition really annoy the crap outa me.
There's plenty of people out there who want cake and enough orders to keep everyone in business where I live (obviously may not be the case for others). There's really no need for anyone to play dirty and rat home bakers out for fear of losing business unless they're not confident in their own talent and/or prices .
Do you think you were a a little mean spirited here? Illegal bakers are clearly playing dirty. We should only uphold the popular laws? We should always obey the speed limit unless we're in a hurry?
It's immature to say legal people want illegals out of their pie because they lack confidence. It's a non sequitur, doesn't follow.
If it's about how much home bakers charge vs store owners, well aren't the prices jacked up a little higher because of the overhead that the store owner decided they wanted to take on when they signed their name on the dotted line?
It's not so much that legal baker's cake prices are jacked, home bakers cake prices are undercutting legitimate businesses--cutting them off at the knees--and that's just plain wrong. The disappearance of Mom & Pop bakeries can be directly linked to the rise of Wilton and the empowerment fo the home baker. The final nail in their coffin is the big box stores.
From what I've seen even if you are the highest priced caker in town it's not exactly the most lucrative career path, but the pride of having your own thing and doing what you love for a living should make up for that, right?
If you do what's right for your area and jump throught the hoops.
Not if you're bootleggin'.
It's like they're hating on home bakers because of the choices they made themselves. My point is everyone makes their own choices and everyone has to deal with the consequences of those choices whether you own a store or not, whether you're legal or not, but I really wish store owners would stop hating on folks that don't take the same path as them.
Hate? This point is off in left field.
Times have changed and so has the typical American Dream of running your own business, working from home is the norm now, w00t!
Are you sure? I think there's many more places where you cannot bake from home than where you can.
They should realize as with anything when you shut someone down five more will pop up in its place, you gonna spend the rest of your life bounty hunting cakers? or you gonna focus on your own business and watch it flourish? It's like a horse during a race, keep your blinders on and stay focused on yourself and your path or you may just lose the race. </rant>
No it's like a greyhound jumping onto the track unannounced and illegitimately finishing the race ahead of the rightful participants.
Eventually home baking will become legal in every state.
I doubt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There's room for all of us to do it right.
And it's not fair to try & bust the chops of legal bakers because we don't like the law.
Just my thoughts.
WARNING (will robinson -- boy am I dating myself)
the internet does NOT protect your privacy...
even if you don't post contact info on your site --
(said in peter lore style voice) there are vays of finding out!!!
to wit: http://whois.domaintools.com/cakecentral.com Use the Whois lookup!!!
here's the results for everone's favorite site:
http://whois.domaintools.com/cakecentral.com
even if you do register for a so called hidden domain registry, the authorities can always get a court order for the full info if they suspect illegal activity!
I'm a fully legal, insured yada yada, home baker and after reading this thread: I am so glad I am. (by the way, it wasn't all "that cheap")
I don't list my exact address on my website because I'm by "Apt. only", and since I have a toddler (SAHM), I don't want strangers stopping by. I do list my town, and if someone's ambitious they can type in my phone number and find out... I really hate "pop-ins". 
Heck, if they type in my email or ph. number my sculpture resume/portfolio/history pops up too... there's really no way to hide in cyberspace... better safe than sorry.
Someone mentioned CA law is so much stricter regarding cleanliness. When you put it the way you did, I totally see your point. Eventhough I put my kitchen on "lock-down" and bake only when family is asleep, it will never be as "controlled" as a commercial kitchen. I have a non-hazardous foods license (and a vegan home), so I don't have to worry all that much, but I'm still super clean to further cut down chances of potential hazards.
I do feel bad for those people who want to be licensed home bakers and their state won't allow it or can't for other reasons... but personally, I wouldn't risk it. I'd feel bad enough if someone got sick with me having business insurance. I can't imagine if that happened and I weren't legal.
I just sleep better knowing my bases are covered. Go with your gut.
Hope everyone had a great Memorial weekend!
Ok, maybe I wasn't very clear in my original post, and it probably came off a little different than what was intended but it was a rant so cut me some slack, obviously I have ruffled some feathers. Let me try and redeem myself here, I wasn't speaking about any and every one who is a store owner, I think that's great, it takes a lot of hard work and dedication, I know what running a business in general entails, no one is taking that away from you. I'm saying the people who don't mind their own business and make it a point to ruin someone else who is just trying to get on their feet and doing whatever it takes to get a bill passed because they too want to be able to run a legitimate business, pay the fees, yada yada yada, are pretty annoying and unnecessary in my eyes, please understand this is my opinion and you don't have to agree with it. I'm not the big bad wolf either, believe me I'm not one to start heated debates, I'd much rather laugh or make people laugh
As far as the delivery charge and free cake, you're right, it's not a loop hole with the HD since delivery doesn't fall under their umbrella, that I could find anyway so please correct me if I'm wrong. And I never mentioned anything about not paying taxes so I don't know why the IRS was brought into discussion. I own two businesses myself and I'm fully aware of what taxes I pay/need to pay.
The HD and entrapment was a question I was asking because I didn't know the answer, it wasn't meant to be rhetorical. It was based on other comments about the HD "scouring the net" looking for home bakers and contacting them, I assumed to see if they could order a cake? I apologize for my ignorance on the subject, although that is precisely why I was asking.
The "working from home is the norm now" statement was meant as a general term, encompassing more than home baking, and the fact that legal home baking is on the rise as well.
I believe if someone likes cake from a certain store they'll continue ordering cakes from that store even if the home baker down the street sells em cheaper (which a lot don't), because it comes down to talent, customer experience, and value. All I was saying was if a store owner in general isn't confident in delivering these things then a possible reaction would be to get angry, assume the home baker is "stealing" business, and possibly make it a point to shut the competition down whether it's considered fair competition or not. Again, this is my opinion based on what I've observed and/or read, no one has to agree with it. If that merits me being called "immature" then so be it.
Lastly, I hope the OP got the answers they were looking for and my apologies for assisting this thread in taking a different direction And to those who were offended by my posts, well, those are my opinions so I don't apologize for that but I apologize if my choice of words (which admittedly I'm not much of a wordsmith to begin with) wasn't kosher with you. If you wish to discuss this with me personally then please take it to a different thread or outside of CC, or if you want to reply here that's entirely up to you and you can have the last word, yay!
Peace!
I am not sure if this has been mentioned already, but why don't you just do a blog showcasing your hobby? That way, you can post photos, descriptions and ask for feedback, without really advertising, if you're worried about that.
My husband is a web designer and my friend and I just didn't want to invest in the domain, etc even though the site would be free - until we get a lot of attention on our blog first. Plus, we're both still novices and are in the early stages of donating cakes and cupcakes for practice, feedback and hopefully, word of mouth orders.
Andrea
Hi guys, thank you all so much for your support and advice. Currently I'm not engaged in any cake business because I'm not a business oriented person. When I signed up for the Wilton classes I had a goal and that was to make my daughter's wedding cake one day. In seven years, I make cakes for family members, get together at work, and sometime, kids from co-workers just so I can practice. I enjoy decorating cakes and getting feedback from friends and family also.
What about the cake orders I mentioned at the begining of the thread?" yes, I got compensated for 2 cakes, in other words, I sold only two cakes so far , LOL. Both friends turned to me for help because they were too busy to shop for a birthday cake for their family.
Back to the topic, since I already posted cake pics on the
facebook and flickr, I would leave them there. I will continue to decorate cakes and ask for feedback, that's all.
Kitagrl - did you use a "build your own website" or pay a web designer?
I had a website several years before becoming licensed....it was nice because the website had already worked its way up in Google and other search engines so when I did get licensed, I was already more established on the 'net than if I made a new site.
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