Ok, I just got a response for a request that I made for some help on leasing some commercial property. The guy just made me sound like a moron with his response. I openly stated I was new and just in the planning stages. Maybe I got the kind of response I deserved who knows, but I don't think so. Perhaps I am too sensitive due to I am close to finalizing a deal with someone to allow me to use their commercial kitchen for a fee, and I would rather have my own place. First I will copy and paste my email to him and then his response to it. Any suggestions on what to email him back is greatly appreciated since on my own, I might not do the "nice" thing.

This is what I wrote to him:

I am the planning stages of starting a new business. I do not have financing as of yet due to I am going to go through the SBA. As part of my business plan, I need to have an idea of what is out there and what I would possibly pay for a lease. Here is a little info. about what I am looking for. The business is going to be a bakery, more on the sweets side, than bread though. I am not sure what the typical sq. ft. is for something like this. Primarily I want something that I can start with and then later go with what I really want which would be a prime location like a quaint downtown location. I want it to be built out for a food business without me having to pay for that. I have researched some, and I know the wait time plus rent can really eat away at a budget, so I want to do away with that. I want something that would give me enough space to have a small eating area, probably the size of a marble slab creamery or something. I know from talking to the health dept. I need something that has a grease trap, and 3 compartment sink along with a hand sink and mop sink. The equipment, I will provide, unless there is something already there that would work. I would like your help with this, and I know I haven't provided a lot of details on what I need, but I feel this is a good way to start. I live in Mansfield, but I am open to something in the neighboring towns as well. I look forward to hearing from you.

Here is his reply:

Susanfirst of all I admire your spirit of entrepreneurship.



Without being disrespectfulI see several flaws in your approach based on the information that you gave me. If you have already explored these avenues that I am about to suggest then I apologize.but this should be the pecking order of events.



1.) Know everything possible that is going to be a requirement from an SBA lender. Dont assumeask.

2.) A business should be formed for one reason and one reason only to make a profit no other reason.

3.) If you know the ends and outs of the bakery business and understand what a break even point isthats greatif you dontlearn it ! Your product already has an established price range (regardless of how good it might be) that the general public is willing to pay. So if you were to sell X amount per day at X amount of money what would be the gross income? That amount of projected incomenow allows you to determine what you can afford in regard to rent and other expensesand still produce a profit.

4.) You have placed yourself in a small box based on finding an existing facility (in the location that you have outlined) that would comply with yours and the Citys requirements. When and if you find itit must be a location that can produce enough street traffic to help you reach your projected sells.





In regard to pricing in generallets use the Marble Slab Creamery location that you make reference to as an example.



I am not sure but I think that they occupy around 800 square feet of space and are on a minimum 5 year lease. They pay $23.00 per square foot plus NNN ( triple net [ NNN] is now around $7.00 psf). This means that your total amount of monthly lease is $23.00 psf plus $7.00 psf which now becomes $30.00 psf.



$30.00 psf times 800 feet is equal to $24,000.00 per year divided by 12 months is equal to $2,000.00 per month plus your expenses. Now refer to #3 on the pecking order list.



Hope this helpsdidnt mean to avoid your initial questionsbut this is the only way that I truthfully know how to answer your request.



Good Luck,

Susan,

I've been a banker for 20 years. I know it may have appeared to you that he was talking down to you. As a professional I always try to get my customers to fully understand the product they are pursuing and why that may, or may not be the best option for them. I think he was trying to give you as much knowledge as possible based on the fact you said you were new, and planning. The fact that the communication has been via email may have been the reason he was so detailed, and maybe given you information that seemed basic. I would have found it rude if he blew you off. Instead he did spend time trying to share information with you. He does have a point about knowing and fully understanding the SBA process. These days in this lending environment it may be near impossible to get financing for a start up business. I work for a major national bank, and I can tell you we would not go near start up financing. I wish you the best of luck in your business!!

I personally think this guy went out of his way to offer you his professional advice and this might be a very helpful relationship in the future. Your email has a "help me, I'm a novice" ring to it. I think this guy gave you a lot of information and also some 'beginning business' advice. If it were me, I'd answer him in a very polite and professional manner, you may need him again sometime.
Just my humble opinion.

he gave you some good advice. can't figure out why you would think he was rude?

He's not being rude. His answer is pretty straight forward. The first thing you mention is that you have no capital at the moment, so he IS giving you a bit of a brush off, just like a smart residential real estate agent would if you weren't "pre-qualified" by a mortgage lender before showing you a bunch of houses. Time is money in real estate.

Here is something close to what you should have said:

Hi,

I am looking for a spot for my new bakery. I need 900-1200 square feet and prefer the ___________ neighborhood. My first choice would be a space previously used as a food service establishment to keep upfit costs to a minimum, but if you have landowners who will build to suit, I'd be willing to look at that.

In order to comlplete my loan package, I need to provide a capital outlay estimate as well as a rent estimate. Do you currently have any properties that are close to the perameters I've laid out ? If so, can you give me an idea of the asking price per square foot ? I'd love to look at anything you have available and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thanks,

SD

I just asked basically the same questions you did but in a way that made it seem that I was actively looking for real estate, and had the means close at hand to make a deal. Commercial real estate is a lot different than residential. It's a lot les " getting to know you" and more dollars and sense.

As a former lender - I agree with what the other posters have said - I thought that he was pretty helpful and friendly while providing as much information as possible. Its very hard in an email to know what others know about business. Just because you know baking, does not mean that you know business - in these cases of email, it is best to assume you are speaking to someone who knows nothing.

Good luck in your search and in your business.

I would be elated to get such an informative, nice email with free advise! It sounds to me like he is trying to help, not be rude. I would take his advise and do a lot more research.

Bake the dude some halo cookies man, he's an angel!

Excellent advice. He gave you your sq. footage and your price on that so he answered your question.

Do you know your break even point? It's the amount of product you have to move (produce and sell) to pay your overhead every month, ie break even. So ultimately you want to move more than that to actually make a profit. In a perfect world that is.

So he's saying for rent alone you gotta bake enough to cover $2000 in rent per month less the cost of the ingredients it took to make that $2000. Plus when you factor in all the other monthly expenses, I mean everything, then that's your break even point. I mean you can't really do business without knowing that.

I was going to share a space with someone--we were going to improve the place ourselves--it was ugly but could be made into adorable. We were both gonna have separate businesses within the one space. I said, figure out your break even point.

She couldn't do it or wouldn't do it. I'm like dang if she's this uncooperative now where we really gonna go with this. So that didn't work.

I agree with everyone, I don't think that he was trying to be snotty. If he thought that you were an idiot he would either have ignored you or written something shorter and not given you so much information. I do see where point number 2 and the "learn it" comment might have raised your hackles a little, but I really don't think that the overall intention was to be rude. I'd reply with a "thank you" email and assume that he was trying to help you get sorted out a little.

Sounds like everyone feels this guy is giving you some sound advice. It happens to hit you in a different spot because it is your dream and no one wants someone to throw cold water on a dream.

Your on the right road and doing the best you can to make a dream come true...use this advice and keep going.

I live in MA and right now with the taxes and economy in a slump- it is better to now all you can ...even the hard to hear stuff.

If you ever need any help or marketing tips - from one baker to another...please contact me.

I also didn't see any rude comments ... I thought he went pretty above and beyond considering that he knew up front you were just window shopping and not actually buying.

Basically, he recommended some info you'd need to know when you do your business plan (his Item #3).

To answer your question on how you should respond to him:

"Thanks so much for all of the detailed information you sent. This will be a great help as I begin working on my business plan and start this project. I appreciate the time you took to put this together for me."

I have to agree with the general thoughts here...this guy did you a HUGE favor by redirecting your search back to the basics of business practices, which you really need to have nailed down before you even think of location. Back him some cookies, indeed.

He is also protecting his own interests...especially time. My father is in commercial real estate. It would be a collosal waste of time for him to waste his time with you YET until you get funding and a business plan together. You are probably at least a year if not more away from signing a list, and time is money for these folks.

Imagine someone wantign hours of your time, a free tasting, design concepts for the cake...without having a date picked or even an engagement ring...

This guy was your best friend!

While I agree that the gave you great info, I can see where you may have felt like he talked down to you.

I just recently opened my doors, so I also dealt with some interesting agents. One blatantly said, "We won't even talk to you until you are ready to look at a lease".

Just my guess, but it sounds like you were looking for specific info, but did not get it in the response. Were you looking for a list of properties, or just some going rent rates?

My suggestion for a response would be: "Thank you for all of the helpful information, I will definitely add your suggestions to my list of items to review/research. I was looking to get a little more specific information. Could you please provide me with ....... (make a bullet point list-- easier to answer)"

I agree with 99% of what he said and I think he did go out of his way to give you all the "thinking points" that he did. My husband and I have quite a bit of real estate experience--buying, selling, rentals, flipping etc..and I can tell you that there are plenty of realtors out there who wouldn't even answer your email or return a phone call. I would be gracious to him and do your "due diligence" which is all he's suggesting you do. You obviously have a dream and that's where it all starts but....there are those pesky practical matters, like profit margins and market analysis (yuck) that have to be considered. The only point that I would disagree with him on was point #2. I think profit is the first reason (and the reason everything else hangs on) but it is not the only reason a business should start. Doing what you love is also an important reason to start a business. Many people start businesses for profit only and fail because they don't like what they do. Perhaps he was just trying to get you to look at this from a completely objective, detached standpoint--something most guys are pretty good at. Anyway, hold on to your dream and do your homework! Good Luck!

I think he gave you a fair response. I would go with the person who helps you best.
He really did answer your question, which was very vague. I don't think he talked down to you, he just didn't sugar coat anything for you. Real Estate agents get these calls all the time with people wanting to put their dreams to reality until they realize how much it is going to cost. I think it was very nice of him to respond to you since you actually don't have any money yet to start the process. My dad would have been short and given you a couple of websites and called it a day.

Honestly, you didn't tell him much. You didn't even know what size of space you were looking for. I am glad you found someone that responded the way you wanted. I am saving his response for my own records though, lol.

Have you tried this site?

http://www.loopnet.com

I am not sure your location, but if your's is listed you can get a very good idea of the going rate of space in your area.

Good luck!

Susan, for whatever it's worth, I reread the post and paid better attention this time. I see where he gave you a lot of "advice" that you didn't ask for and he really had no way of knowing if you needed that advice or not. He never did, however, give you what you were needing...a figure for a commercial space that you could put in a business plan so you could get your money from the SBA. I didn't catch that the first time through. This guy sounds like a driver and depending on your personality type, you probably would not get along with him anyway. Driver types can be hard to get along with and have a tendency to run over people. I have a "driver" type personality and I have to really watch that I don't hurt people's feelings. I agree with you that you should work with someone you have a rapport with. Obviously, he's not the one. I understand that he has to make sure that a person is serious and has done their preliminary work before he spends time with them, but I do think he could have used more tact and asked questions to find that out instead of giving you a "to do list". Maryjsgirl is right about Loopnet. It's a good resource.

He answered the question such as it is:

And he is correct, the only reason to go into business is to make money. Hello. These charity bakers out there put the hurt on everybody. Because lookie, you gotta pay $2000 a month in rent. Not just the months the landlord says pretty please.

(My husband and I love the Shamwow commercial--we always yell "Get the Phone!" so we can order-- lol --but one line in there the guy says, "You getting this, camera-guy?" So we say that all day too. So all that to say...)

You getting this, camera guy?

I mean you explain to the guy that you are new, you proceed to give a rambling account of the state of your affairs about how you want to keep costs low--who doesn't. He proceeds to help you. And you get prickled by that?

Honestly, this helpful gentleman will be a refreshing encounter by the time you wade through the thick muddy maze that is opening and running a business.

You were asking for advice--You come off unsure in that email--he was totally helping you. I hate it when people ask for help then don't like what they get.

So since you have grabbed onto the small fraction of people who share your view and the business people who do not, hey, you do the math, you're so not there yet.

And I know you didn't want to hear this either but you're gonna have to grow a pair if you're gonna get this off the ground.

signed,
Your Cake Buddy

PS. You should print the next email you sent to the other guy and his response--what was better about that encounter? Betcha he's a novice without much on the line, unless the email you sent is much different than this one.

All of this is written in a helpful tone--nothing else-- but I know folks are gonna suck all the air out of the room a coupla times. I'm just shooting straight. I mean ask Indy and Txkat about the everlasting gut punch some months when they gotta sign payroll and pay rent--cahhhn't breathe. This guy gave you good info. You got a very professional response from a not so professional sounding request.

Heres the information she asked for. I did edit out some things that could have been left out:

It seemed pretty clear to me. She did state she was in the beginning phases and just looking for info so how specific should she have been? Thats why she is asking

That gives him the general idea as to how much sq. ft. Being in the business he would more likely know the sq ft of some creameries. His #4 was very good advice and relevant to her question. The # 3 would have been a nice added bonus after he gave her the info about the price and sq footage.

I didnt see her ask for info about SBA or why she is going into business. Well duh thats a given, you go into business to make a profit, no sh@t Sherlock. I agree he thought he was helping her with his advice. Im not saying his advice is wrong. Its good advice. Im saying I can see where she felt it was rude.

I guess what Im saying is # 4 and the sq ft info would have been the info she asked for. The rest of it read off like a lecture.

Different topic but when I had my son, Everyone had advice for me. Good advice but Unsolicited advice. I always thought it was annoying and sometimes rude. Its as if because you are a new parent you have dumbass written across your forehead. When I ask a question I would appreciate an answer otherwise Don't ask Don't tell.

One last thing to the op. He did give you the info you asked for. And like someone said before most people wouldn't have even bothered to respond. I think he was trying to be helpful and not rude but I can see how you felt that way. Just take the info and do what you need to do with it.

The Sherlock comment was aimed at the agent not you K8. I do partially agree with what you're saying.

I can't for the life of me see how you think he's being rude. You are really too early in the planning stages and your question was really too broad and not focused enough, too many "maybe"s and "what-if"s as far as exactly what you want. He could have simply replied with a short "Sorry, but I can't give any specific information until you are further along in your planning", but instead he took the time to write you a very long response containing a great deal of helpful information to help you get further along and more focused and specific in your plan. I would be very appreciative that someone took that much time, instead of giving me a standard, "sorry but I can't help you" answer. You may be disappointed that you didn't get the answer you wanted, but he was by no means rude or condescending. To be bluntly honest, your e-mail to him was rather rambling, and it was hard to pin down exactly WHAT you were asking of him. It does kinda come off of someone looking for general advice, not asking a specific question.

If it were me, I would work on getting all my ducks in a row, and then get back in touch with. Someone that took that much time to give a detailed, helpful reply is someone I would want to work with.

Yaknow, I wouldn't dream of contacting a real estate agent if I didn't know how many square feet I needed in space.

But I will say the OP had some serious cajones asking for a build out and not wanting to pay for it. Of course, the cost of the build out would just be built into the monthly rent, in the end.

I don't think the guy was the least bit rude. I think the original request was full of an I don't know what I'm doing undercurrent and the guy was trying to be helpful.

This is business, not a casual coffee convo. His and yours.

I agree. I can't see anything in his response that would be considered rude at all. It was an extremely helpful response to a rather vague bunch of questions.

What I have learned in the last year and a half of having my own business.... don't take things personally.

He wasn't rude just because he didn't give you the info you asked for. Either ask again or ask someone else. Don't take it personally. If you do, you will go nuts having your own business!

It seems to me that there are some serious communication breakdowns going on in these posts and I think it all started with a communication breakdown between the OP and the agent.
First, I don't think women need "cajones" to be in business. My "brain" works just fine, thank you. I'd hate to wake up some morning and find that I had grown cajones just because I started a business. I guess there are some who feel that starting a business is still done better by people with cajones ie. "men" or women who want to act like them.
Second, the OP didn't mean that she wanted the owner to do a build out. She meant that she would prefer to find a place that had already been built out for food service. A closed cafe or candy shop etc...
Not all of us that do this business for the love of it are "charity bakers". Some can actually do both...love what they do and make a profit. Judging by some of the posts here, I'd ascertain that some are lacking in people skills--skills that are essential to running a business and making a profit. Maybe some of you would like to haze the OP to see if she is "worthy" to start a business.
And yes, I can feel the air being sucked out of the room over this post too.
Try not to forget where you were when you started a business...you know--before you grew your cajones.

I think the OP and the agent have different ways of communicating. The OP is more expressive, that is why she included a long description of what she may or may not want in her request. What she wanted was a ball park figure she could put down on an SBA loan request, but that got lost in the descriptive process. I missed that the first time I read it also, because of my driver type personality. The agent is obviously a driver also. Drivers want to get to the point and not mince words. Expressives and amiables make drivers crazy. Drivers are the types we usually think of when we think "business". They are the movers and shakers of this world. They like to attack, conquer, control. Expressives hate having to do stuff that isn't fun. They are passionate, creative, and usually good at making people feel comfortable. They are the hospitality part of business; one of the most important parts of having a food service business that serves the public. All of these traits are important in business. I think we need to recognize other people's strengths and encourage them in these strengths by offering constructive suggestions for how they might better approach a problem. Drivers often assume that nobody knows as much as they do. They think that everyone needs to be like them to be in business. This is a weakness in their personality type and doesn't help them or the people they come into contact with in life and in business. It's taken me quite a few years (and a lot of study) to get this through my head. While the agent did offer some good "advice", he assumed that it was necessary (driver) and gave it in an "I'm the expert and you're obviously not" way that didn't really help (driver again). Drivers are usually the only ones who think everyone needs figurative cajones to make it in business. This is simply not true. As drivers, they are usually very proud of their cajones and what they have accomplished with them in business. Good business also involves knowing your personality types and being able to mirror that type back to your client/customer. This agent obviously hasn't grasped that yet. I wonder how many expressives and amiables he has been able to sell property to. Not many, I would venture.

I agree with the majority of the responses here. His e-mail was not rude, he answered you in a professional manner.

Before you start any business you need to have done your research and I'm sorry but your e-mail did not come across sounding like you did. Perhaps this explains his response.

If you're in MA (you mentioned Mansfield) do you bake out of your home at this time? If not, why not get your home kitchen licensed and try that out first. At least you'll be able to see the costs and work involved before you take on a huge amount of debt. I'm in MA and this is what I do.


If you think this guys e-mail was rude, just wait til you meet the HD people, they're less than charming

This is what k8 meant when she said you need to "grow some" . In ANY business you can't get teary eyed or on the defensive when you don't like someone's response. Perhaps some may have liked "grow thicker skin" instead. Brains are great, but they're not the only necessity in this business, thick skin and cajones also come in handy.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you.