Very Important Legal Question....

Business By mnmmommy Updated 17 Oct 2006 , 6:32pm by berryblondeboys

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mnmmommy Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:14am
post #1 of 23

Ok, so I bought this cd that has clip art on it and I had intended to make an edible image from one of the pictures and put it on a cake that I sold. I didn't notice until now but it says all photos and logos are copyright properties of.....Can I use them still if I bought the cd? Otherwise what are they for?

Thanks
Mcihelle

22 replies
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chloe1979 Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:22am
post #2 of 23

I used to work at a large publishing co. and people always asked that about clipart--my understanding from our legal dept. always was that it is intended for personal use, and if using in a commercial manner, the copyright is a totally different ball of wax, and should be paid for each particular use (aka: each pic) since you would be profiting from it. I hope that makes sense, but when in question, contact the owner of the image. icon_smile.gif

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seven Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:23am
post #3 of 23

although I am not positive....I dont think you can make money off of something copyrighted....just like all the wilton character pans...you can make a blues clues cake but you can not sell that cake bc disney (or whoever) owns the rights to it. I am thinking that the cd would be for personal use....making flyers, borders on papers....stuff like that.

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mnmmommy Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:27am
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I think I will contact the owner. That would kinda stink if I can't use it icon_cry.gif What's the difference in using material and making something and selling that then? Just curious.

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etigg82 Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:33am
post #5 of 23

Holy cake! I didn't even think about not selling cakes made from special pans! Which pans do you think would be copywrited???? Obviously a Winnie the Pooh pan, but what about a 3D cruiser, Wondermold, or football pan?

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seven Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:41am
post #6 of 23

I not sure about a football or wonder mold....I lean towards these being fine to make a cake and sell.

What you need to make sure of is any character pans.....anything Disney for sure...it is very rare that some one would come after you but it can happen. I am sure anything "generic" likea football is fine it is just recognizable charcters.

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berryblondeboys Posted 13 Oct 2006 , 4:48am
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that's just the way copyrighting laws go. Like, you can rent a movie and watch it and even watch it with a group of friends, but you are already crossing the line if you show it at an organations meeting - let's say at a Mom' s club meeting.

So, with these clip art and cake pans, if you are making them at home for your family, well, you "paid" for this right. However, if you then go and make and sell for others, that is considered profiting off a company's business. So, if you are to do it legally, that person needs to buy the cake pan and have you use it. Same with music actually - you can buy and listen for yourself, but you can't copy it and sell it to another person....

For things like cakepans, it is a stretch I know. I mean ALLLLLL kids like copyrighted characters and it's not like you make a cake ONE TIME, but you don't usually make for you family the same character more than one time - it's silly agreed.

Melissa

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barterbabe30 Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 1:17pm
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I really never thought of that either, I mean who really would turn someone in for using something they requested but I'm sure it could happen, good thing about the cake is the actual evidence will be ate.lol How about if you just let them "borrow" the cd image, not your fault that they never returned it! ha just a bit of humor. icon_razz.gif

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CakesWithAttitude Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 1:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etigg82

Holy cake! I didn't even think about not selling cakes made from special pans! Which pans do you think would be copywrited???? Obviously a Winnie the Pooh pan, but what about a 3D cruiser, Wondermold, or football pan?




As aWMI; I was told specifically all Wilton pans are copyrighted and cannot be used for selling cakes. I had a special deliver baby cake on my website and they told me that I couldn't post my web address on the Wilton forum's b/c it has copyrighted cakes on there and that the special delivery cake is copyrighted as well as all their pans. Makes you wonder about the square's and rectangle's and all now too huh?!! icon_evil.gificon_lol.gif

But now I put on there that they are only for my kids birthdays and not for sale; don't know if it would be ok with them now.

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travelingcakeplate Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 1:31pm
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I say make it slightly different, like make the nose smaller or the hair a different color. As long as it is not an exact replica, I can't imagine that it makes that much difference.

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CakesWithAttitude Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 1:37pm
post #11 of 23

The copyright is not that it is the same pattern of colors or looks just like it.
It is the pan and the pan shape itself. It cannot be used for selling cakes; you feel kind of fooled when you find out; b/c who buys these to make one cake for their kids birthday. A few; but most buy it with the intention of using it again for selling a cake

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Richard Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 10:24pm
post #12 of 23

Thought I would add a little humor wouldn't the people who bought the cake be eating the evidence.

I know back to work!

Kathy

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Destini Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 10:34pm
post #13 of 23

Does that go for cake toppers as well?

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Rodneyck Posted 14 Oct 2006 , 10:41pm
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard

Thought I would add a little humor wouldn't the people who bought the cake be eating the evidence.

I know back to work!

Kathy




LOL... but your honor...What cake? icon_biggrin.gif
Seriously, to respond to some of the comments... It does not seem fair that you buy these images, shaped character cake pans, etc and can't use them, but it is all in the name of saving the companies property and art work. You are buying them under copyright law for "home" use, not commercial. Which means any profit made is in violation.

The main reason, as far as images go, is that they do not want you to distort them. If you took Bugs Bunny and piped him in brown and tried to pass him off as a brown bunny, you are actually defacing bugs bunny and defacing the companies billions of advertising dollars trying to promote that image.

Personally, if you are a home baker selling cakes to the public, the risk is in your court, and probably minimal, although it is against the law. If you are a commercial baker, then that is another thing. They can actually buy or lease commercial licensing to some of these images. To not do so, the risk is greater for them.

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karateka Posted 15 Oct 2006 , 2:19am
post #15 of 23

Where did you buy this cd from? I bought one from Kopykake and I haven't noticed that statement...it was expensive, too, so if that's the case I'm going to be mad. Afterall, they bill it as a cake decorating tool. Who buys these things, like the projectors and airbrushes, and edible image printers if they can't use them to sell cakes?

You know people who buy from kopykake aren't doing it all as a hobby!

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RisqueBusiness Posted 15 Oct 2006 , 2:37am
post #16 of 23

[quote="CakesWithAttitude
As aWMI; I was told specifically all Wilton pans are copyrighted and cannot be used for selling cakes.


I had a special deliver baby cake on my website and they told me that I couldn't post my web address on the Wilton forum's b/c it has copyrighted cakes on there and that the special delivery cake is copyrighted as well as all their pans. Makes you wonder about the square's and rectangle's and all now too huh?!! icon_evil.gificon_lol.gif

But now I put on there that they are only for my kids birthdays and not for sale; don't know if it would be ok with them now.[/quote]

The reason is the ART WORK....the special deliver baby was thought up by someone that works exclusively for WILTON...so, they purchase all the creative ideas that this person comes up with....

You cannot then REPRODUCE it . That's that. It cannot be a recognizable copy..in other words.....Barney is purple..but if you make a RED BARNEY..and you can tell it's still a Barney..you are in violation of copy write laws.

Now, if you use the BARNEY pan and make some kind of character that is of your own creation..then you may use it to make your character. I'm sure that if then ...I went to your website and..."BORROWED" your idea...you'd be a little PO'ED..lol....Right?

but that same pan could be used to make your family and friends and whoever a BARNEY if you're not charging for the cake!

SO, all those web sites out there with ....Disney Characters, Looney Toons...exact copies of other people's cakes....Even the DESIGNER BAG CAKES....( and don't get me wrong...I have "copied" cake myself...I find something amazing and immediately try to reproduce it, but then I add my own twists ....lol) are all breaking the copy write law.

But, you know? Unless you're making THOUSANDS on a sale...Or are a world famous cake designer, and you're doing it on the Down Load and not SHOUTING TO THE WORLD THAT YOU MADE BARNEY HOLDING A LOUIS VITTON BAG CAKE....then they really should leave us alone! lol

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RisqueBusiness Posted 15 Oct 2006 , 2:40am
post #17 of 23

anothe example is a cake I have to do for Tuesday. The mom want's a "TINKERBELL" Theme.

I told her that I could make something like a "FAIRY CIRCLE" and if she bought the dolls to put on top of the cake, that was the best I could do.

A fairy circle that I think up and design on my own is not a copy write, except MINE...what my customer does with the cake once she gets it home, that's on her!

I'm not breaking any copy write laws as long as I don't use any of the design elements from the invites or party goods.

But....I WILL do it for friends and FAMILY! I just made an ELMO cake and cupcakes for my grand daughter's first Birthday...

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doleta Posted 15 Oct 2006 , 7:40pm
post #18 of 23

So, what about the grocery stores that sell cakes with Looney Tunes etc on them?
Are they breaking the law?
Just curious.

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RisqueBusiness Posted 15 Oct 2006 , 7:45pm
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by doleta

So, what about the grocery stores that sell cakes with Looney Tunes etc on them?
Are they breaking the law?
Just curious.




Chain grocery stores that do this, eighter are paying for the right or purchase edible images with the character or the decorating toys

That's why those are so expensive. If you go and purchase, let's say an edible image with a CAT on it....it's going to cost you a WHOLE lot less than let's say an image of FELIX the cat or some such famous cat...

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? lol.

Like right now, I'm in the middle of working on a cake...the customer wanted a "TINKERBELL" theme...she brought me the napkin and I told her that I could NOT replicate the image..

So, she went out to the Disney store and bought a box of like 8 fairies, and Tink is one of them...Soooo...I'm making a sort of "FAIRY RING"...so she can take the cake home and place the toys that she bought on top.

I am not breaking any copy write laws, she gets the exact look she was looking for..and the little girl just scored 8 little dolls! lol

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karateka Posted 15 Oct 2006 , 7:45pm
post #20 of 23

No, because they pay the licensing when they buy the plastic toys to go on their cakes.

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Rodneyck Posted 17 Oct 2006 , 6:16pm
post #21 of 23

There is an article in American Cake Decorating magazine, August/September edition I think, about companies like Disney, Warner Bros, etc cracking down and suing cake designers. It also mentions ways of working, like mentioned above, to get around the infringement, like having the customer put the doll or artwork on the cake.

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berryblondeboys Posted 17 Oct 2006 , 6:30pm
post #22 of 23

This is what I did - I can't see hwo it's illegal. The lady wanted a Thomas cake, so I told her that if she bought the pan, then I would make the cake for her. She paid for the pan, and therefore paid for the copyright, right? I then bought the pan from her as I might use it for my son.

Melissa

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berryblondeboys Posted 17 Oct 2006 , 6:32pm
post #23 of 23

Hmmm.. the pan wasn't a Thomas pan, but the generic Choo-choo pan. We decorated it to look a lot like Thomas though... skating on this ice though.

Melissa

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