Omg, I Am Going To Pass Out.....

Business By CakeDiva73 Updated 25 Oct 2006 , 3:16am by mkolmar

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CakeDiva73 Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 6:07pm
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The local Pastor who I contacted trying to rent commercial kitchen space from just called.... the cafe in town closes at 2:00 each day and they don't have a baker. So he told them about me needing commercial space and the owner was so excited and wants to meet me tomorrow morning! icon_eek.gif

I am feeling faint..... this is the new owner (the old owner was a baker) and the new one is buying their baked goods from Costco, etc. and the customers want fresh baked goods.

I really need some help.... I think he would want me to provide the baked goods for the cafe (only open for break & lunch). Before I go in there clueless, what should I know? What should I expect?

I am so lost... if he wants me to bake for the restaraunt in exchange for using the kitchen for wedding cakes, cookies, etc... how does that normally work? I am worried and need to know what the norm is. If that was the arrangement, and he wanted me to provide pies, scones, cookies, cinnamon rolls, etc. for the restaraunt, would I buy those ingredients? I absolutely realize that most places would want an hourly rental so I am prepared to work hard for the use of a kitchen, or I was prepared to pay for one.... OY!

Thanks in advance...

87 replies
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kelleym Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 6:52pm
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This sounds like it could be a great opportunity for you! I don't know that there is any "norm" as far as these barter-type arrangements. When I was doing this for a restaurant, they bought all the ingredients for the goodies I made, because they can buy in bulk at much cheaper prices. I just supplied my labor and baking talent icon_smile.gif. The downside of this is that they wanted me to use margarine (YUCK!) in some bars....to use strawberry daiquirie mix instead of raspberry jam in my raspberry cream cheese streusel bars. Because butter is expensive and they don't buy raspberry jam. So decide in advance what type of quality control you'd like over your product. How many hours you are willing to work for them in exchange for use of the kitchen? Make sure there is ROOM for you to work in the kitchen, and that it's clean. It also helps if there is a place for you to store some of your own cake-cookie ingredients and supplies, so you don't have to cart everything back and forth all the time.

Ask lots of questions and work out all the details FIRST! Don't just jump in without a plan. See if you can arrange some kind of trial period -- say a month or two -- and at the end of that time either one of you could say it wasn't working, and back out with no hard feelings.

This is advice I'm offering from recent personal experience. Hopefully others will fill in the spots I've missed!!

Good luck to you!

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KHalstead Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 7:04pm
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How exciting for you......I would definitely have a list (even if it's in your own head lol) of things that you could offer in the area of baked goods.......also keep in mind what you would be willing to pay for a space........don't end up getting the space for free but not have enough time to make your own money on the side. I personally would have them get the ingredients (of your choosing, so you can control the quality if your name will be involved in it) I think the trial period is a good idea.......or maybe you could provide them with bakery goods (they buy the stuff for you to make it) and I would make sure and draw up a contract of some kind so that it stipulates that you will work baking for them for X amount of hours per day/week and anything more than that they pay you an hourly wage..........again you don't want to not have the time or energy to run your own cake business.

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czyadgrl Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 7:06pm
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Congrats! Good luck!

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karent Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 7:16pm
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Congrats!!! From a business standpoint you should keep the baking for the cafe completely separate from renting space. It just makes everything so much cleaner and will help you come tax time.

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CakeDiva73 Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 7:41pm
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I sort of think he wants to have me bake in exchange for the space...... Granted, I haven't meet with him yet but that was the impression that the Pastor gave me. And the owner is also a Pastor. I don't think he is a cut-throat business man or anything. And it is a small cafe..... God, I have no idea what to do.

I would assume he would want a couple dozen scones, pies, cookies and cinnamon rolls each week. They are not a terrible busy location but still. Also, I think since they close at 1 that I would be able to work in the off hours. It is so hard because I haven't meet with him yet so I don't know what to expect but want to have a plan, you know?

If I expect him to pay me for the baking for the cafe then it only stands to reason that he should expect me to pay an hourly rate for using the kitchen....which is what I am trying to avoid. In a perfect world, I could come in to bake their stuff and use the kitchen for my other orders and not be stuck with a monthly rate when I have no clients. Granted, I will be baking for them regardless of what orders I get but since his hours are so small ( 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. M-Sat) then it leaves so many off hours that I could potentially use.

I really am trying to make a win-win for both of us and not have either person feel taken advantage of. And to be really honest with you, if this doesn't work out, I will not be able to get licensed. At least not anytime soon...this rest. is 1/2 mile from my house and across the street from my kids school - it could be the ideal situation. (crossing fingers) icon_lol.gif

** edited to add: And thank you for presenting all sides of this that I may not be thinking of. That is what I need. Too often I jump in thinking it will all work out perfectly and then it turns into a nightmare because I spoke too soon, etc.... ( i.e. my second marriage icon_lol.gif ) ok....that was funny.... icon_smile.gif

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momsandraven Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 8:19pm
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Maybe you could try to put a dollar amount on your time in the sense that 1 hour of time for your cakes is worth 2 dozen muffins/scones or something like that. That way, when you have some down time, you could make him some goodies and earn some 'reserve' time built up for the holidays, etc.

Also, I would make a point to establish a monthly meeting with him where the two of you could discuss what is working well, what you'd like to change etc. What seems like a great plan may not be after a period of time.

You will DEFINITELY need space of your own at his shop. Legally, your ingredients and equipment are supposed to be stored there (at least that's how it is here in IL), so you'll need to store ingredients and *in theory* your pans and stand mixer. The place I work is very small and so I have to take my pans back and forth. It's a huge PIA. It has been a very difficult transition for me, but I have just recently moved my 6qt KA mixer over there.

Good Luck!!!! I can't wait to hear how this works out for you!

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kelleym Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 8:23pm
post #8 of 88

Also, I forgot to mention -- the restaurant I worked for was open only for breakfast and lunch, and closed at 3pm. But they wanted me to work during their business hours because it would cost them electricity to keep everything "up" after they close. Working after the shop closes would be ideal, but make sure that's what they have in mind, too!

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CakeDiva73 Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 8:23pm
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oh darnnit! I guess this means I will be FORCED to buy another mixer since I have a bad back so I really can't be hauling it back and forth... icon_lol.gif I am thinking something in pink..... LOL!

Thanks for the advice. I can predict that I will feel all grateful and give away too much time since that is what I seem to do so well. icon_cry.gif I am going to make some scones & cinnamon rolls to bring with me and go with an open mind and try to be realistic.... I will post what happens and thank you all so much for your help and advice. icon_smile.gif Where would I be without CC?

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CakeDiva73 Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 8:25pm
post #10 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelleym

Also, I forgot to mention -- the restaurant I worked for was open only for breakfast and lunch, and closed at 3pm. But they wanted me to work during their business hours because it would cost them electricity to keep everything "up" after they close. Working after the shop closes would be ideal, but make sure that's what they have in mind, too!




omg.... I never thought of that. Electricity didn't even dawn on me, duh! What a non-small business mind I have icon_confused.gif ...... thanks again.

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CakeDiva73 Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 10:10pm
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Do you think he expects me to provide him with baked goods, as in I am the one buying all the ingredients? Is that something that would be fair? I am a bit concerned since my apple pie costs more than $6.50 in ingredients alone.

But I am not wanting to expect something for nothing either.... My Mom just keeps going on and on about how there is no way I should be paying money out of my pocket on stuff to provide his shop with. I have tried telling her that you can't get something for nothing and him letting me use the kitchen is a big deal. icon_cry.gif My mom is making me crazy! icon_cry.gif

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sweetviolent Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 10:31pm
post #12 of 88

also.. keep in mind how this will fit in to the type of contracts and # of them you will be able to make.

or in other words if you are baking at home now , you can bake ,decorate etc when ever you are able eeven if it is 3am.

you probably have thought this thru but ...
what happens on the days they are closed . how much counter space refrigeration etc is available to you for your product. and also finished pieces that might have to be stored for awhile before delivery.

will they be safe , will you have acess???

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sweetviolent Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 10:33pm
post #13 of 88

p.s.- I don't want to sound like a downer- what a great opportunity !!! Good luck in whatever you decide to do !!!

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delaware Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 10:40pm
post #14 of 88

I would have passed out! You have so much to think about!!!
These ladies have given you some excellent advice.
Good luck in your meeting with the owner tomorrow morning.
Keep us posted!

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LittleBigMomma Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 10:47pm
post #15 of 88

Whoa!!! Take a deep breath...relax...think....

don't pass out or panic!!!

Jot all of your questions and thoughts down and just have a meeting with him to work out the details. Don't assume anything. Cover all the bases. After talking with him, you may want to tell him that you'll need a day, couple of hours etc. to process(think) all of the details and that you'll get back to him by _____date and _____time.

Good Luck!!

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LittleBigMomma Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 10:58pm
post #16 of 88

The morning customers may enjoy some Monkey Bread and/or Gorilla Bread for a change too!

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CakeDiva73 Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 11:01pm
post #17 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBigMomma

The morning customers may enjoy some Monkey Bread and/or Gorilla Bread for a change too!




I take refridgerator biscuits and dredge in melted butter and then roll in cinnamon sugar and put them in a bundt and bake....is that monkey bread? My kids are insane for this and I love it because it is a cinch and cost me about 42 cents...... ok, can you tell I am "Budget Woman" (envision a superhero, please.....)

I guess I need a cape!! Oh wait, I can't afford one! icon_lol.gif Yeah....I'm a bit of a nervous nelly right now and what I really want to do is get in the kitchen and bake a bunch of stuff but I am going out to dinner w/ my firend for her birthday so I can't! icon_mad.gif

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LittleBigMomma Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 11:25pm
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Yes, that's Monkey Bread and you can add nuts. Gorilla Bread is similar with cream cheese added to the inside of the dough "balls".

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Narie Posted 27 Sep 2006 , 11:54pm
post #19 of 88

Keep the job and renting his kitchen totally seperate. This is for legal and tax purposes for both of you. If you don't it will be such a mess, both of you will dealing with the IRA and Social Security. You work for so much an hour making cinnamon rolls and pies in his cafe. He pays for the ingredients etc. When the place closes, you rent his kitchen for so much an hour as often and for as long as you need it. Make it clear to him that this will vary from week to week depending on your orders. As part of the rental agreement you are given storage space for you equipment and supplies. This will make keeping your expenses and the cafe's seperate and clean. Also make sure you have cell phone for your business and don't use his at all.

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CakeDiva73 Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 12:33am
post #20 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narie

If you don't it will be such a mess, both of you will dealing with the IRA and Social Security.




ROFL icon_smile.gif

I'm Irish but not THAT Irish! icon_lol.gif Thanks for the advice... I appreciate it.

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SweetThistleCakes Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 12:49am
post #21 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by CakeDiva73

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narie

If you don't it will be such a mess, both of you will dealing with the IRA and Social Security.



ROFL icon_smile.gif

I'm Irish but not THAT Irish! icon_lol.gif Thanks for the advice... I appreciate it.




I think that is the funniest thing I have heard all day!
The Sinn Fein is going to come get you for tax evasion and using a dirty spatula!

Girlfriend, calm down and just get a good nights sleep. Take a pen and paper and write it all down. Dont make any quick decisions. I think this is going to work out well for you.

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vww104 Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 12:55am
post #22 of 88

CakeDiva....I agree with LittleBigMomma, don't make any hasty on the spot decisions. Have a meeting with him, take notes, ask questions, then tell him you will consider his offer and get back to him. Make sure whatever you decide works for both of you (but especially for you!!) Consider all the options presented then make a rational, decision. I wish you all the best and keep us posted!!

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buttercupbaker Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 1:06am
post #23 of 88

Sounds like a great oppurtunity. What I would give for a chance like that. I love doing this but it is so hard to do it out of the house. Good luck and do keep us posted. I hope your meeting goes really really well.

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Narie Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 1:13am
post #24 of 88

Oops! icon_redface.gif At least you got a good laugh out of it.

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CakeDiva73 Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 6:29am
post #25 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narie

Oops! icon_redface.gif At least you got a good laugh out of it.




Not at your expense icon_surprised.gif ... I didn't mean it like that ~ I just cracked up! I think I needed the release....stress case that I am!

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cupcake Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 7:35am
post #26 of 88

Since this sounds like a small business, the owner will first and formost look at costs. Is he doing enough business to hire a baker? If you put a dollar amount on your worth per hour, he should be buying the stuff for you to make. You can then barter the pay for use of the kitchen for your things after hours. YOu have to figure what that kitchen is worth to you. If he will allow you to sell your decorated cakes, then that is your profit and expense not his. It all comes down to negotiating. Find out what he is looking for, you will be able to tell pretty quick if it is a win-win situation.Do not allow yourself to get sucked up!! Keep your head clear, and think about the other side of the coin. Good Luck and hope it works for you.

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playingwithsugar Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 7:56am
post #27 of 88

Will you be doing his breads, too?

Theresa

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CakeDiva73 Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 1:42pm
post #28 of 88

I am not sure about doing the breads but right of the top of my head, I would say no. I think what he wants are pies, scones, cinnamon rolls & cookies but I will know for sure after the meeting.

Doing the breads would be way too labor intensive and unless he has a huge hobart, it just wouldn't make sense ( I hope! ). As for the other stuff, I have a collection of really good pastry recipes in addition to cookies and breakfast foods... all these years it was pastry that my Grandma taught me how to bake and cake decorating only started about 2 or 3 years ago.

I am thinking that I would work really hard to provide great baked products to maek his end more successful and profitable and had no intention of wanting a piece of the money earned ( if he was providing the ingredients.)

I felt that in that case, then when it came time for me to make cookies trays, special orders and wedding or celebration cakes, he would not be taking my profit. My brain is rather simple.... I wouldn't take advantage nor would I expect him to but that is not the real world, unfortunately, so we will have to see.

I would really like to see this work out in a way that does not involve money exchanging hands since I feel like me having to pay an hourly rate ( although the norm ) would end up costing me more in the long run. I would prefer to work for a set # of hours in exchange for a set # of commercial kitchen hours...

but like I said, I am not a business woman so I guess I have to channel 'the Donald' icon_lol.gif

I will post after my 10 a.m. meeting - and thanks, everyone, for taking the time to help me out with this. icon_smile.gif

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CakeDiva73 Posted 28 Sep 2006 , 8:40pm
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Ok... quick update before I go get my kids from the school. We met for over an hour - the nicest man you could imagine. He has a non-existent baked goods dept. and really wants one - he is buying frozen stuff from Cisco food and Smart & Final.....

He is going to provide the ingredients and I will bake the stuff for him in exchange for kitchen access... if the bakery end takes off and really starts to be successful, he said he will spring for a fridge case and we can then re-negotiate so that I would be 'selling' the items to him so we would both share in the profit. icon_razz.gif Encouraged me to make flyers for holiday pie sales which he was clear was 'my deal' - meaning he wasn't expecting money from it even though it would be advertised in his rest. icon_confused.gif .... I decided that any order generated from the rest. would result in something for him - not sure what % but I am all about fair play.

Right off the bat, he is really only wanting cinnamon rolls, scones maybe some cookies and a couple of pies a week....he said if I wanted to offer more stuff to try and really expand it, he would pay for the ingredients and to go for it. He closes at 2 and said I could bake starting at about 3:30 on weekdays, etc. He is checking with his silent partner but doesn't think she will have a problem since they have been talking about hiring a baker for almost 6 months.

Final parting words were reminding me that he would provide the ingredients and encouraged me to get going on a fall flyer advertising those pies - he is supposed to call back after he talks to the partner...hopefully today, so I don't have an anxiety attack. icon_lol.gif

He said I could put business cards on the counter but asked that under my business name, I put in smaller writing out of or from the Home Kitchen ( his business name ).

I agreed! Literally, the only down side was that kitchen was small and there was no room to store my stuff..... he was worried about the space and also that his cooks might accidentally use my stuff but it was just too small...even for a toter. Every inch is functional but it ain't big!

So there you have it..... I am so excited I could fall over. I will heave a big sigh of relief once I get a call from him saying the partner said ok and then he said that she would probably want to meet me and maybe I could make some stuff for her to taste....especially the cinnamon rolls.

We brainstormed about serving cheesecakes on friday nights when they offer dinner service - it was very cool. And the best part, they are way into homemade comfort food.... no kiwi-poppyseed meringue bars with rum butter sauce or anything! icon_smile.gif So he was happy that all my baked goods ideas were old standards like scones, pies, cookies, cinnamon rolls and such......

I can't thank you guys enough for helping me out with this and talking me off my stress-ledge.... I'm sure I will have to ask for more help with the details but Wow. I just can't believe it. I don't think I want to do the happy dance, otherwise known as the Jig of Joy, until I get that call and then watch out!!!

I will be jumping around like Elaine from Seinfeld!! icon_smile.gif

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vww104 Posted 29 Sep 2006 , 3:59pm
post #30 of 88

CakeDiva..I just want to say that when I read your post I almost cried. Because of your honesty with your various posts I know that you have struggled and been thru a lot. What an amazing blessing and I'm so very happy for you. I'm sure this is just the beginning of many more blessings for you and your family. And what a wonderful time for all of this to happen, holiday baking time! I wish you all the best and please let us know how it all turns out.....if we don't get as many posts from you I will just assume that it's because you are too busy!!!!

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